Khalistan Movement

[DTF]

Yes they are sehajdhari Sikhs, so why seperate from them when we can help them recieve gyan shakti through our Sri Gurdwara sthans?

D = I am not advocating Khalistan as a priority given greater more urgent issues facing the Panth. But no democratic advocate of Khalistan is arguing for separation from ordinary innocent Hindu's who are also oppressed throughout India (outside of Punjab). What democratic proponents of Khalistan want is that Delhi should not be able to rule Punjab. No Khalistan advocate has ever advocated severing ties with Hindu's and in fact Khalistan advocates often propose a united defensive pact with India and an economic union of sovereign states.

Believe it or not countless people convert to our religion from India during Sri Amritsanchar.

D = Yes that is correct as four of our Panj Piare themselves were non-Punjabi's.

So in fact, we are all actually perfectly fit for India.

D = Sikhs are a not a perfect fit for unjust societies. Khalsa Raj across all of India can indeed be a solution to the suffering of all Indian people.

I believe our Sri Gurus were against discrimination against caste etc, not against our culture. Why do people even refer to themselves as Punjabis then if they are Sikhs (since that has to do with our ancient culture).

D = Given that four of our Panj Piare were non-Punjabi's this amply demonstates that Punjabi heritage has nothing to do Sikhi. 87% of Punjabi's from what was Punjab in 1947 are in fact non-Sikhs with a majority of Punjabi's being Muslims and Sikhs amounting to only 13% of Punjabi's at most.

We need to realize that the world will keep spinning and we just need to worry about ourselves rather than creating new situations that will create problems.

D = Like I said, I do not advocate Khalistan as a priority when we have bigger more immediate and more urgent problems to address as a Panth (before that subject can ever meaningfully be thought about) but your argument for the status quo is utterly ludicrous, as you are effectively arguing against the democratic birthright of all human beings to govern themselves where they democratically see fit. I agree that less than 1% of the Punjab population supported parties backing Khalistan in the 2014 elections.

[MisterrSingh]

Yes I can!! It's the truth. They get what they've sown.

Yes they do, because they're part of the 4 varnas. Anyone who is 'desi' is Indian. The untouchables are part of the 4th varna aka Shudra, or the exclusive 5th one called dalit!

OK, by that logic if you were ever Lord Chancellor of law and justice in somewhere like England, when someone is murdered in cold blood you'd say, "Well, it was the victim's karma he was killed. He did some paap in his previous life; let's go home, no point in hanging around here."

From a spiritual POV I'm not denying that kind of thought comes into play, but there are rules and systems that can't exist on karma alone.

[DTF]

Yes I can!! It's the truth. They get what they've sown.

The untouchables are part of the 4th varna aka Shudra, or the exclusive 5th one called dalit!

Your argument that people are born into a certain race or caste due to karma is false and against Gurmat and Sikhi.

Given that there is an obvious correlation between the darker one's skin and the greater that person's level of suffering worldwide on a per capita basis, you are effectively arguing that racism is justified (as a supposed result of it's karmic justification) and this same lie is used in Manu Smriti to oppress dalits. Sikhi is the only force that can liberate the dalits and other oppressed people of India and the Sikh Panth does have a responsibility to free not only itself but also others throughout India (and globally) from unjust rule (in the fullness of time as our demographic numbers will allow).

Karma in Sanskrit refers to the actions of "this" life as opposed to supposed previous lives as you infer.

Where did the first generations of humans get their karma from?

How will the final generation of humans live out their accrued karma when our Sun disintegrates (or sooner)?

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon]

You can't deny being desi lol you are Indian, there's no stopping it. You can't even say you are transracial because that isn't even real.

Not true lol. Born and raised in Canada makes me Canadian, ethnicity is Punjabi. Leaves no room for anything "indian."

[JagsawSingh]

You forget that you are equally as Indian as anyone else if you have Indian DNA.

What is 'Indian DNA' ? As a Punjabi, there is as much persian, scythian or greek dna in me as there is from hindustan. Does that mean the Iranians and Greece also have justification to occupy Punjab ?

India has always existed

Of course India has always existed. I'm perfectly happy that you take joy in acknowledging that fact. But how come you wish to discard from your mind the fact that the Punjab also existed as a totally seperate entity to India ?

ThSikhs are INDIAN if they are from INDIA

The ones ethnically from India...i.e bihar, bombay etc are indeed Indian, for they are from India.

The ones from Punjab however are from Punjab. Punjab was always part of Persia whilst everything to the south of it was part of India. It was your enemies the mughals that made it part of India. How come you hate everything else about the Mughals but love that part of what they did ? We were then again not part of India as we were our own totally seperate independent nation. We now again find ourselves part of India simply because the blatant false promises the Indians made to us at the all india congress in calcutta 1946 where they begged us to join India.

The ones from the NWFP tribal mountains are ethnically pathan.

The white ones from california are ethnically caucasion.

The black ones in oregon are ethnically black.

Punjabis are Indian oh my god.

A man can spend a lifetime drumming it into a Dutchman that he is Swiss. But if you say it long enough it still won't make it so.

We, as Punjabis, have never been Indian and never will be. The fact that we now exist as Indians because of pathetic lies and false promises made to us by the Indians says more about the low character of Indians than anything else. You Indians would be very foolish indeed if you think a status quo -or a thing- with such an unethical and immoral foundation will stand the test of time. It can't...and it will crumble.

[Kira]

And Punjabi is desi You are living in denial! Where were your creators from aka your parents? Or were they native to Canada? lol, obviously you have migrated to Canada, but you will still be Indian.

No you wont. That's like saying someone was born a Hindu, converted to Sikhism but will always remain a hindu. BY your logic we're all Africans as evidence indicates we all came from there. Guess we're all Africans now folks, pack your bags and lets shift there.

Their Ethnicity might Indian (correct label is asian as a race) but their nationality is and will always be where they were born, where they were brought up and what they identify as.

I find it slightly humorous how most Indians are so quick to defend their lineage but seem to hesitate when asked if they should move back there.

So in fact, we are all actually perfectly fit for India. I believe our Sri Gurus were against discrimination against caste etc, not against our culture.

No offense but you should be ashamed of yourself for even saying that. At that time Punjabi Culture was and still is associated with discrimination against females, rituals, the caste system. Sati and dowry were such an integral part of culture at that time. It's utterly moronic to say our Guru Sahib were ok with the culture. If you ever pick up a history book and read about Guru Nanak Dev ji you'll see why he was so outspoken about society and culture there. Outspoken = not accepting it.

By saying they were ok with the culture, you're saying Guru Sahib was ok with burning woman alive, demanding large amounts of money for dowry, stopping the education process of anyone who wishes to learn.

Indian culture was and still is oppressive, controlling and extremely judgmental.

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon]

Rubbish talk

Well either say whats so rubbish or don't butt in. You have provided 0 valid arguments in your total 9 posts.

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon]

No lol, they deserve insaaf, but not necessarily from our hands. Sri Yamraj Maharaj will get them, so don't you worry.

Ok, lets take a serial killer, he kills one or two people, gets caught, BUT lets not punish him, we'll leave that upto god, so we realse him. Then whats next, he is released, he'll continue killing more people. Your theories never make any sense.

[Kira]

Ok, lets take a serial killer, he kills one or two people, gets caught, BUT lets not punish him, we'll leave that upto god, so we realse him. Then whats next, he is released, he'll continue killing more people. Your theories never make any sense.

I don't think Preet quite gets the point of the Khalsa. To protect the weak and punish the wicked, which is the logical goal of most judicial systems.

[Hammertime007]

Wouldn't Pakistan be fine with Khalistan though. India loses a large chunk of its land,industry and food source and it leaves them even weaker. Plus having another Ally against them would be beneficial to them. I'm not proposing an alliance or anything but it is a possibility

never trust a Joe daki