Why Was This Thread Locked?

[dallysingh101]

Not j4cking off has its benefits!

hee hee hee!

[Guest]

Best thing you've ever said (or written) on this site.

Not j4cking off has its benefits!

lololololololol

[kuldipk123]

If killing insects is permissible because they don't feel pain (which isn't quite true), shouldn't that mean that if somebody kills a goat quickly and painlessly (by jhatka, or by incapacitating it first), it's completely fine?

You have no way of knowing how insects register pain. Not as humans and other mammals do, to be sure, but they are still going to feel something extremely unpleasant. Of course they will. Every animal on earth has evolved to feel unpleasant sensations in response to negative external stimuli, in order to aid their survival.

Killing of anything is simply not justifiable whether the thing killed registers pain or not. Even the Bible says,'Though shall not kill.' Jesus was a vegetarian according to some Christians, but we don't really see many Christians following his example.

There is a world of difference between to, kill with the 'intention' of killing and to kill without the 'intention' of killing. When killing is 'premeditated' it is no longer a killing, it is defined as 'murder.' It is the intention that matters most. Most vegetarians don't kill insects with the intention of killing to, feed themselves, but they kill without it as in, when they are shopping in the supermarkets for food they, walk all over those tiny little insects without their knowledge. People that kill animals to feed themselves are also killing millions of insects at the same time unknowingly.

If we do something wrong knowingly then we are very guilty of doing that wrong and if we do same wrong not knowingly then it can be forgiven and we can't be blamed for it.

[JagsawSingh]

I ought to mention that I don't think there's anything un-spiritual about eating meat.

Strongly disagree with that statement Balkaar. Even if we take religion out of the equation for one moment and define spirituality as a path of finding meaning, purpose and harmonisation with nature its obvious that eating meat is counterproductive to this path. Firstly because you'd be putting harmfull, negative, energy sapping toxins inside your body, secondly because you'd be losing that loving and respectfull connection between all living things and thirdly you'd be actively contributing to harming nature / the environment. For example, the amount of grain needed to feed one cow to provide meat for one person could actually feed 30 people. Ecologists have also shown that rais­ing cattle and processing meat requires much more fuel, water, and energy than is used to produce grains and vegetables. Therefore, given how being on a spiritual path means gaining gyan about the earth and other worlds, one who still consumes that flesh despite the known harm cannot possibly be said to be on any spiritual path.

From a purely Sikhi point of view this is even more so and not only because our concept of sarbat da bhalla means caring for the welfare of all living creatures and nature. But frankly the most telling aspect about meat eating is the way that meat eaters go about it. For example, they eat their fried chicken but could not commit the initial action required in order to get that chicken. They are mercifully distanced from the act of killing that happens thousands of times a day in slaughter houses throughout the land. The question this begets then is this; if they need this distance in order to continue their habits, how 'spiritual' can they be if they continue those habits?

[kuldipk123]

There are different levels of compassion and anyone that is compassionate in all ways, cannot inflict pain to a harmless animal just for their survival. The problem is that humans believe they are superior to animals. If the wild boar was replaced for a human, would you think twice about killing the human for the sake of YOUR family's survival?

Sikh religion teaches us to feel compassion for everyone and everything. In the Sikh religion it is known as 'daya' and is the name of one of the panj piyaareys. He is known as Bhai Daya Singh ji. Compassion teaches us not to harm or inflict pain not only on harmless and helpless animals but also on humans even if they can be harmful to us. It was our parents' compassion towards us which forgave us our mistakes. It was the compassion of our teachers that corrected our mistakes in our academic life. It is the Compassion of the Guru Sahib that forgives us all our misdeeds and sins.

One cannot call oneself a human without having compassion in ones' heart. It is the 'ego' that gives human a false sense of superiority over others. Everything is transient. Everything is impermanent and humans have forgotten it at their own peril.

If a person has a killing instinct to kill then they can kill anything. It is the killing 'instinct' that creates the karma. Don't forget, karma is FIRST created in our minds and then translated into actions.

We are what we eat. Our diet affects our minds and our actions are the effects of our minds, and that's what karma is all about. That is why the Gurbani says, we must endeavour to conquer our minds.

[dallysingh101]

So I guess you people think Rattan Singh Bhangu made all that stuff up about the Khalsa eating meat then (let alone taking bhang)?

[spareribs]

So I guess you people think Rattan Singh Bhangu made all that stuff up about the Khalsa eating meat then (let alone taking bhang)?

I am not sure about the Khalsa eating meat but I am positive about why they had to take 'bhang.' Nowadays, we have plethora of painkilling drugs and antibiotics to help us to control pain and cure infections. In olden times when the brave Khalsa fauj had to fight non stop battles with the mughals and were injured in the process, there were no strong painkillers and antibiotics availabable. They had to resort to 'bhang' to control their pain caused by life threatening injuries sustained on the battlefield. Just imagine what kinds of injuries they must have sustained to resort to a strong painkiller such as 'bhang!' That's when usage of bhang was intorduced in the Khalsa fauj. Why do they still use this? I haven't a clue! I can think of one answer, but it may not be a suitable one, so, I will leave it out. When I visit India again in perhaps two years time, I will definitately pose this question to any Mr Nihang Singhs I encounter and report my findings here.

I suppose the jhatka was introduced to toughen up the fauj. It is just a guess on my part and nothing else The invincible Khalsa fauj could only be toughened up by killing animals in 'jhatka' style. Also, 'jhatka' was carried out to prevent the animal from suffering too much pain. The logic behind all this is that, how can anyone kill an enemy in the battlefield, if they can't even kill a goat or a chicken? The practice of 'jhatka' was introduced to instil or implant the killing instinct in the fauj, so they won't be appalled at the sight of blood dripping down from the enemies' faces or limbs in the battlefield. The Khalsa fauj was a sant but it had to be transformed into a sipahi as well. So, killer instict was vital to toughen them up.

[dallysingh101]

I am not sure about the Khalsa eating meat but I am positive about why they had to take 'bhang.' Nowadays, we have plethora of painkilling drugs and antibiotics to help us to control pain and cure infections. In olden times when the brave Khalsa fauj had to fight non stop battles with the mughals and were injured in the process, there were no strong painkillers and antibiotics availabable. They had to resort to 'bhang' to control their pain caused by life threatening injuries sustained on the battlefield. Just imagine what kinds of injuries they must have sustained to resort to a strong painkiller such as 'bhang!' That's when usage of bhang was intorduced in the Khalsa fauj. Why do they still use this, I haven't a clue. When I visit India again in perhaps two years time, I will definitately pose this question to any Mr Nihang Singhs I encounter and report what they have said in response here.

I suppose the jhatka was introduced to toughen up the fauj. The invincible Khalsa fauj could only be toughened up by killing in a 'jhatka' style. The logic behind all this is that, how can anyone kill an enemy in the battlefield, if they are not even able to kill a goat or a chicken? It was to instil or implant the killing instinct into the fauj and that's where this practice was introduced. The Khalsa fauj was a sant but it had to be transformed into a sipahi as well. So, killer instict was vital to toughen them up.

Seriously, read Bhangu's work; dasmesh pita onwards:

Vol 1: https://www.scribd.com/doc/54832175/SRI-GUR-PANTH-PRAKASH-by-Rattan-Singh-Bhangoo-Trans-Kulwant-Singh

Vol 2: https://www.scribd.com/doc/149671030/SRI-GUR-PANTH-PRAKASH-by-Rattan-Singh-Bhangu-VOLUME-2-English-trans-by-Kulwant-Singh

[spareribs]

Seriously, read Bhangu's work; dasmesh pita onwards:

Vol 1: https://www.scribd.com/doc/54832175/SRI-GUR-PANTH-PRAKASH-by-Rattan-Singh-Bhangoo-Trans-Kulwant-Singh

Vol 2: https://www.scribd.com/doc/149671030/SRI-GUR-PANTH-PRAKASH-by-Rattan-Singh-Bhangu-VOLUME-2-English-trans-by-Kulwant-Singh

I will definitely look into his works, thanks for the links.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

I am not sure about the Khalsa eating meat but I am positive about why they had to take 'bhang.' Nowadays, we have plethora of painkilling drugs and antibiotics to help us to control pain and cure infections. In olden times when the brave Khalsa fauj had to fight non stop battles with the mughals and were injured in the process, there were no strong painkillers and antibiotics availabable. They had to resort to 'bhang' to control their pain caused by life threatening injuries sustained on the battlefield. Just imagine what kinds of injuries they must have sustained to resort to a strong painkiller such as 'bhang!' That's when usage of bhang was intorduced in the Khalsa fauj. Why do they still use this? I haven't a clue! I can think of one answer, but it may not be a suitable one, so, I will leave it out. When I visit India again in perhaps two years time, I will definitately pose this question to any Mr Nihang Singhs I encounter and report my findings here.

I suppose the jhatka was introduced to toughen up the fauj. It is just a guess on my part and nothing else The invincible Khalsa fauj could only be toughened up by killing animals in 'jhatka' style. Also, 'jhatka' was carried out to prevent the animal from suffering too much pain. The logic behind all this is that, how can anyone kill an enemy in the battlefield, if they can't even kill a goat or a chicken? The practice of 'jhatka' was introduced to instil or implant the killing instinct in the fauj, so they won't be appalled at the sight of blood dripping down from the enemies' faces or limbs in the battlefield. The Khalsa fauj was a sant but it had to be transformed into a sipahi as well. So, killer instict was vital to toughen them up.

I assume they still take Bhang because it's addictive. Apparently Wikipedia says that it assists them(Nihangs) with meditation?