Why Was This Thread Locked?

[Singhni MiriPiri]

Tobacco can never be said to be necessary for survival, and it has no medicinal properties. It can't be compared to being forced to consume meat or cannabis. When your family are crying out in hunger and in pain because they can't properly digest the tree bark they've been forced to eat, you'd be a fool to do nothing if a wild boar, whose meat could feed your family for days, trotted past. And if you're severely injured you might also consider using cannabis to dull the excruciating pain. It's no different from taking painkillers - getting high wasn't the object in taking it.

I ought to mention that I don't think there's anything un-spiritual about eating meat.

There are different levels of compassion and anyone that is compassionate in all ways, cannot inflict pain to a harmless animal just for their survival. The problem is that humans believe they are superior to animals. If the wild boar was replaced for a human, would you think twice about killing the human for the sake of YOUR family's survival?

[Balkaar]

There are different levels of compassion and anyone that is compassionate in all ways, cannot inflict pain to a harmless animal just for their survival. The problem is that humans believe they are superior to animals. If the wild boar was replaced for a human, would you think twice about killing the human for the sake of YOUR family's survival?

No, I wouldn't kill a human for meat. I don't know if that question is meant to trip me up or something, but I simply wouldn't feel as bad about killing a deer or a bird as I would about killing another human being. I am very skeptical of anybody who'd have the nerve to claim otherwise. Being a vegetarian in the wilderness is impossible. Ask any survivalist. There aren't carrots and onions and edible vegetables, or wheat and cereal aplenty growing in the woods. Almost all of the vegetation will poison you, kill you, or be completely undigestible. Meat was one of the few safe options for our forebears in their jungle hideaways.

Do you go to the supermarket to purchase the vegetables for your dinner? How many ants and midges and other tiny organisms do you think you kill as you're walking along the ground so that you can acquire food in the name of your survival? By your logic, what right do you have to inflict pain upon these harmless animals so that you can get the food you need to live? Are boars superior to ants? Is it worse for somebody to kill a boar than to kill an ant, as you probably do every single day?

I'm not advocating that humans be allowed to kill animals whenever they please, for whatever tenuous reasons they can summon. We should avoid killing things wherever possible. But I hope you understand that there are situations where we simply have to make allowances.

[Singhni MiriPiri]

No, I wouldn't kill a human for meat. I don't know if that question is meant to trip me up or something, but I simply wouldn't feel as bad about killing a deer or a bird as I would about killing another human being. I am very skeptical of anybody who'd have the nerve to claim otherwise. Being a vegetarian in the wilderness is impossible. Ask any survivalist. There aren't carrots and onions and edible vegetables, or wheat and cereal aplenty growing in the woods. Almost all of the vegetation will poison you, kill you, or be completely undigestible. Meat was one of the few safe options for our forebears in their jungle hideaways.

Do you go to the supermarket to purchase the vegetables for your dinner? How many ants and midges and other tiny organisms do you think you kill as you're walking along the ground so that you can acquire food in the name of your survival? By your logic, what right do you have to inflict pain upon these harmless animals so that you can get the food you need to live? Are boars superior to ants? Is it worse for somebody to kill a boar than to kill an ant, as you probably do every single day?

I'm not advocating that humans be allowed to kill animals whenever they please, for whatever tenuous reasons they can summon. We should avoid killing things wherever possible. But I hope you understand that there are situations where we simply have to make allowances.

I'd feel just as bad about killing a deer, bird etc just as I would about killing a human, everyone is different. I'd rather die than to kill an animal for my survival. Insects do not register pain as animals do.

[Balkaar]

I'd feel just as bad about killing a deer, bird etc just as I would about killing a human, everyone is different. I'd rather die than to kill an animal for my survival. Insects do not register pain as animals do.

If killing insects is permissible because they don't feel pain (which isn't quite true), shouldn't that mean that if somebody kills a goat quickly and painlessly (by jhatka, or by incapacitating it first), it's completely fine?

You have no way of knowing how insects register pain. Not as humans and other mammals do, to be sure, but they are still going to feel something extremely unpleasant. Of course they will. Every animal on earth has evolved to feel unpleasant sensations in response to negative external stimuli, in order to aid their survival.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Are you guys really arguing about daya? We all have different ways of perceiving it. Some have the Daya to give medicine and water to the bad guys, (Bhai Kanhaiya), others have to daya to sacrifice their head for a group which is ungrateful to their sacrifice, (Guru Tegh Bahadur), others have different levels of Daya such as giving some things to less fortunate people, (Bhagat Puran Singh), some have the Daya to serve the Panth to their last breath and always defending Gurdwaras, (Bhai Fauja Singh). Everyone has different levels of Daya and even if it was the same level there are different types of Daya depending on the time. Some free animals from be suffered and maybe be killed in the Halal way from, (Nihangs). It also depends on Guru Kirpa. (Bapu Surat Singh hasn't eaten for over 8 months to free wrongfully accused Sikh prisoners). It's a concept we can't begin to understand.

[Singhni MiriPiri]

If killing insects is permissible because they don't feel pain (which isn't quite true), shouldn't that mean that if somebody kills a goat quickly and painlessly (by jhatka, or by incapacitating it first), it's completely fine?

You have no way of knowing how insects register pain. Not as humans and other mammals do, to be sure, but they are still going to feel something extremely unpleasant. Of course they will. Every animal on earth has evolved to feel unpleasant sensations in response to negative external stimuli, in order to aid their survival.

You're asking questions as if you have no understanding as to why someone would choose a vegetarian lifestyle. I don't believe in jhatka or any other cruel actions like that.

Let's agree to disagree.

[Balkaar]

You're asking questions as if you have no understanding as to why someone would choose a vegetarian lifestyle. I don't believe in jhatka or any other cruel actions like that.

Let's agree to disagree.

I'm a vegetarian as well. I wasn't originally talking about vegetarianism though. I was talking about necessity.

[Singhni MiriPiri]

I'm a vegetarian as well. I wasn't originally talking about vegetarianism though. I was talking about necessity.

Ok then you should know the answers to your above questions. In terms of necessity, you and I just have different views on that.

[MisterrSingh]

Are you guys really arguing about daya? We all have different ways of perceiving it. Some have the Daya to give medicine and water to the bad guys, (Bhai Kanhaiya), others have to daya to sacrifice their head for a group which is ungrateful to their sacrifice, (Guru Tegh Bahadur), others have different levels of Daya such as giving some things to less fortunate people, (Bhagat Puran Singh), some have the Daya to serve the Panth to their last breath and always defending Gurdwaras, (Bhai Fauja Singh). Everyone has different levels of Daya and even if it was the same level there are different types of Daya depending on the time. Some free animals from be suffered and maybe be killed in the Halal way from, (Nihangs). It also depends on Guru Kirpa. (Bapu Surat Singh hasn't eaten for over 8 months to free wrongfully accused Sikh prisoners). It's a concept we can't begin to understand.

Best thing you've ever said (or written) on this site.

Not j4cking off has its benefits!

[dallysingh101]

I still don't get why so many people get their knickers in a twist when they read things in puratan granths that aren't common today??

The mind boggles.

Plus people seem absurdly oblivious to the possibility that being colonised by foreigners for a full century, (who had a TOTALLY different world view to the original Khalsa), might have had some (major or minor) influence on us. Or even just the natural passage of time.

No society has ever remained constant and the more contact societies have with radically different cultures (let alone being ruled by them for 100 years...), the more likely that some cross contamination will take place.

It's just straight weird that all discussions about certain practices of purataan Singhs gets reduced to ridiculous name calling and accusations of trying to condone drug taking, alcohol drinking blah blah blah. Sure, some people do this, but not everyone trying to understand the true nature of puratan Sikh society in a non-judgmental way is trying to excuse away or justify modern practices. Some of us just want to know our history - warts and all.

It's an amusing thought: Would certain people be disgusted with their own ancestors because they don't meet up to their standards today?

What annoys me is the way this mentality regularly causes a shut down of interesting debate regarding past Singhs - because historical sources don't parrot what they themselves believe. At this rate we might as well burn all our older literature and pretend it never existed. lol

We are LUCKY to have all the literature we do given the determined way people tried to rub us off the face of the earth.