Is It Time To Give Every Sikh A Copy Of Sggs Ji?

[genie]

THe BOOK??? you need to get out of this forum now ...you are no SIKH

you can learn to read larivaar everyone used to , only lazy giddards like you want to remove all respect for the physicality ...when all saroops are gone the way of the dodo what's to stop someone incrementally changing gurbani ...they already have ...Sant Singh Khalsa has changed the meanings of Gurbani translations for the youth to support anti-gurmat practices . People used to scribe Gurbani to a high level of artistry , paint murals in gurdwarey , know tanti saaz and gurmat sangeet but next you'd be saying why do that , why sing kirtan or learn gurmat sangeet .

I want people to up their game and actually go to dharamshaley , make it centre of their lives not an afterthought . I want Dharamshaley to be a place of learning, community, physical training as it used to be : we are too soft a target. It is good to be open hearted but people have taken it too far and not learnt the other advice of Guru Ji do things for yourselves, govern yourselves, if the law is injust ignore it and set up true justice, do not trust people who promise you much they will never deliver.

LOL save he melodramatics for the pendu simpletons. The educated Sikhs amongst us know the solutions to problems Sikhi is facing and how to best to overcome them.

SGPC was founded to reduce our numbers and they doing a pretty good job by not translating and spreading SGGS Ji to non-Sikh populations and lands.

[Kira]

It's all fine having Gurbani online too. That is a great tool but we need to see another side to all this as well. Imagine a single error in printing and that error enters into many many saroops, by doing so these errors would end up confusing the Sikh populus even more. We would literally have to hunt through old Saroops to find out where the mistake came from, then reclaim all the Saroops with this "error" and then further correct it.

A Similar story can occur online.

Printing existed during Guru Sahib's time too, Yet it was never the primary source of getting Saroops to the growing Sikh Sangat. Why? Perhaps due to what writing Gurbani actually entails. Many Mahaprukhs have pointed out that writing Gurbani is a great way to absorb it, People such as Bhai Mani Singh Ji who were scribes of Guru Sahib and even Baba Deep Singh Ji who took part in the Seva to perform such an act all ended up becoming great Sikhs and true role models to us all.

Hand-written is a great way to maintain this tradition. A center where Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Saroops are being constantly written would be a great tool in further helping our Granthi or anyone who wishes to get involved in the seva learn more than just writing Gurmukhi.

We should treat Gurbani like a treasure, which it is. Printing in its current form is far too easy to tamper with. Hand-writing with love and devotion and then checking it on a regular Basis (as Guru Sahib Ji did) would be a far safer way alternative to mass production.

Again, I'm not against putting Gurbani online but I do believe this tradition should continue.

LOL save he melodramatics for the pendu simpletons. The educated Sikhs amongst us know the solutions to problems Sikhi is facing and how to best to overcome them.

SGPC was founded to reduce our numbers and they doing a pretty good job by not translating and spreading SGGS Ji to non-Sikh populations and lands.

Even the translations we currently have need to re-evaluated :/ The best source of Gurbani would be try and read the actual Gurmukhi. But English translations are a great tool.

We need people who are experts in English and have a great Gurmukhi background sitting down and translating them.

A standardized translation would be a good start, not essential but oh well.

[jkvlondon]

book

bo͝ok/

noun

noun: book; plural noun: books

1.

a written or printed work consisting of pages glued or sewn together along one side and bound in covers.

"a book of selected poems"

Seems to me it matches the definition of the english word "book." The OP also has a point that many people are caught just up with the phyiscal form of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and don't care so much for whats within it. But like others have said we are in a electronic age, instead of handing out copies to everyone, we should take advantage of the technology available.

and what did I suggest remove saroops which are installed incorrectly i.e. padd ched and replace by a handwritten saroop created by local sangat after calligraphy training (quadruple blessing of bani pardna, jappna, likhna and vicharna in one), teach them also how to bind, mend and do the turning of pages correctly to prevent tears, this gives them joint responsibility feeling, a community of Sikhs who can do shud bani and raul duties for helping their communities (no need for charges) and we can check there are adequate numbers of people who can do sewa of Guru ji within the community and who can do pehradar duties . Also if we register people who have done this sewa of writing a saroop we will be able to track the Bir and its whereabouts . This is a method of strengthening the listening and reading and vicharna of gurbani within a community.

Sure I did say use electronic version too but it can never be the sole version because just putting it on a server makes us vulnerable to losing access for whatever reasons. Also if we use international partnerships we can increase the number of concurrent language translation projects and have them available for checking immediately by gurmukhi scholars so there is no delay in letting the world have access.

[simran345]

I think people are forgetting one important thing, which is Satkaar.

A better way to understand why I object to Guruji being solely electronic is think about the following then you will get your answer.

How would feel if somebody came along and decided to put you in a computer and nobody would talk to you. Nobody would contact you, nobody would even bother to acknowledge you? Or when you grow old and the youngsters just want to get rid of you? And you say they are living Guru? Why are you all talking like they are a book? Coz that's what I'm reading.

It's not about melodramatic pendus, it's about having the Satkaar for the most valuable King of Kings we should have. And that can only be experienced fully in their full living presence when we bow before them putting out head in their charn. You want to get rid of that gift?

Yes they should be accessible to all and every soul in the world but how you going to stop beadbi then?

[simran345]

Sometimes too much education makes wrong decisions too.

[genie]

Sometimes too much education makes wrong decisions too.

ignorance is bliss eh?

Don't question anything the SGPC cultists say. Just follow their nonsense edicts

Whereas our Guru Ji wants us to question everything, learn life, this world and about Waheguru our creator and act upon Guru Ji's glorious wisdom and teach others about Sikhi.

[DSGkeepingitreal]

and then what seeing saroops thrown around here there and every where is your akkal in your gitey? already because there are too many padd chedd saroops printed this is happening . I mean the kanjars at SGPC authorised prints of padd chhed by outside agencies and have been dispatching the same everywhere including radha soamis, RSS mandirs etc . Look at all the pictures from beadbhi sites they are all barring one pothi SGPC PADD CHHED saroops .they have been going against the rules for YEARS and not one person complained ....now no one knows how many and where these saroops are installed.

Remove and Destroy all non larvivaar saroops is the answer , all saroops should be larivaar only , handwritten and maintained by local sangat, guarded by same . No pothi, steek,or gurbani in any form should be sold only given this is Guru ji's bachan the sooner we return to respecting his wishes and rehit the sooner raj will come. if a dharamshala or gurdwara wants to have a larivaar saroop then they have prove they have means for satkar and security.

If we show respect it was not because it was handwritten but because we valued it truly ...watch what happens when you don't value your scriptures by what happens to bibles , they are left in hotel rooms at the mercy of everyone , are subjected to beadbhi just like qurans etc ...better to have electronic apps to teach reading larivaar by perhaps colouring alternating words until you can understand and to do your individual paat from , and make it necessary to go and physically do darshan of Guru ji at a well guarded , manned sikh dharamshala.

As far as I know only the Torah is not printed and distributed and there is no problem of beadbhi ...may be we need to go back to our roots not just forward with technology.

p.s. destroy all printing press permissions especially the one in China

English commentary may be yes after scholar /panth consesus but gurbani gurmukhi format no way.

To the original poster:

No

Agree. Ik gaj di akal nahi Jeb ch. if you start doing that, then people won't even bother to go to matha tek to Maharaj Ji at Gurdwara. Noji don't want Guruji to be technology only.

and predictions in future is that tech will be hit be NWO or EMF will stop us having access too

THe BOOK??? you need to get out of this forum now ...you are no SIKH

you can learn to read larivaar everyone used to , only lazy giddards like you want to remove all respect for the physicality ...when all saroops are gone the way of the dodo what's to stop someone incrementally changing gurbani ...they already have ...Sant Singh Khalsa has changed the meanings of Gurbani translations for the youth to support anti-gurmat practices . People used to scribe Gurbani to a high level of artistry , paint murals in gurdwarey , know tanti saaz and gurmat sangeet but next you'd be saying why do that , why sing kirtan or learn gurmat sangeet .

I want people to up their game and actually go to dharamshaley , make it centre of their lives not an afterthought . I want Dharamshaley to be a place of learning, community, physical training as it used to be : we are too soft a target. It is good to be open hearted but people have taken it too far and not learnt the other advice of Guru Ji do things for yourselves, govern yourselves, if the law is injust ignore it and set up true justice, do not trust people who promise you much they will never deliver.

It's all fine having Gurbani online too. That is a great tool but we need to see another side to all this as well. Imagine a single error in printing and that error enters into many many saroops, by doing so these errors would end up confusing the Sikh populus even more. We would literally have to hunt through old Saroops to find out where the mistake came from, then reclaim all the Saroops with this "error" and then further correct it.

A Similar story can occur online.

Printing existed during Guru Sahib's time too, Yet it was never the primary source of getting Saroops to the growing Sikh Sangat. Why? Perhaps due to what writing Gurbani actually entails. Many Mahaprukhs have pointed out that writing Gurbani is a great way to absorb it, People such as Bhai Mani Singh Ji who were scribes of Guru Sahib and even Baba Deep Singh Ji who took part in the Seva to perform such an act all ended up becoming great Sikhs and true role models to us all.

Hand-written is a great way to maintain this tradition. A center where Guru Granth Sahib Ji's Saroops are being constantly written would be a great tool in further helping our Granthi or anyone who wishes to get involved in the seva learn more than just writing Gurmukhi.

We should treat Gurbani like a treasure, which it is. Printing in its current form is far too easy to tamper with. Hand-writing with love and devotion and then checking it on a regular Basis (as Guru Sahib Ji did) would be a far safer way alternative to mass production.

Again, I'm not against putting Gurbani online but I do believe this tradition should continue.

Even the translations we currently have need to re-evaluated :/ The best source of Gurbani would be try and read the actual Gurmukhi. But English translations are a great tool.

We need people who are experts in English and have a great Gurmukhi background sitting down and translating them.

A standardized translation would be a good start, not essential but oh well.

and what did I suggest remove saroops which are installed incorrectly i.e. padd ched and replace by a handwritten saroop created by local sangat after calligraphy training (quadruple blessing of bani pardna, jappna, likhna and vicharna in one), teach them also how to bind, mend and do the turning of pages correctly to prevent tears, this gives them joint responsibility feeling, a community of Sikhs who can do shud bani and raul duties for helping their communities (no need for charges) and we can check there are adequate numbers of people who can do sewa of Guru ji within the community and who can do pehradar duties . Also if we register people who have done this sewa of writing a saroop we will be able to track the Bir and its whereabouts . This is a method of strengthening the listening and reading and vicharna of gurbani within a community.

Sure I did say use electronic version too but it can never be the sole version because just putting it on a server makes us vulnerable to losing access for whatever reasons. Also if we use international partnerships we can increase the number of concurrent language translation projects and have them available for checking immediately by gurmukhi scholars so there is no delay in letting the world have access.

I think people are forgetting one important thing, which is Satkaar.

A better way to understand why I object to Guruji being solely electronic is think about the following then you will get your answer.

How would feel if somebody came along and decided to put you in a computer and nobody would talk to you. Nobody would contact you, nobody would even bother to acknowledge you? Or when you grow old and the youngsters just want to get rid of you? And you say they are living Guru? Why are you all talking like they are a book? Coz that's what I'm reading.

It's not about melodramatic pendus, it's about having the Satkaar for the most valuable King of Kings we should have. And that can only be experienced fully in their full living presence when we bow before them putting out head in their charn. You want to get rid of that gift?

Yes they should be accessible to all and every soul in the world but how you going to stop beadbi then?

Sometimes too much education makes wrong decisions too.

You are all correct. Shukar hai SatGuru Jee da that you guys didn't turn this into a disaster by thinking the opposite way. :respect:

[garch]

and then what seeing saroops thrown around here there and every where is your akkal in your gitey? already because there are too many padd chedd saroops printed this is happening . I mean the kanjars at SGPC authorised prints of padd chhed by outside agencies and have been dispatching the same everywhere including radha soamis, RSS mandirs etc . Look at all the pictures from beadbhi sites they are all barring one pothi SGPC PADD CHHED saroops .they have been going against the rules for YEARS and not one person complained ....now no one knows how many and where these saroops are installed.

Remove and Destroy all non larvivaar saroops is the answer , all saroops should be larivaar only , handwritten and maintained by local sangat, guarded by same . No pothi, steek,or gurbani in any form should be sold only given this is Guru ji's bachan the sooner we return to respecting his wishes and rehit the sooner raj will come. if a dharamshala or gurdwara wants to have a larivaar saroop then they have prove they have means for satkar and security.

If we show respect it was not because it was handwritten but because we valued it truly ...watch what happens when you don't value your scriptures by what happens to bibles , they are left in hotel rooms at the mercy of everyone , are subjected to beadbhi just like qurans etc ...better to have electronic apps to teach reading larivaar by perhaps colouring alternating words until you can understand and to do your individual paat from , and make it necessary to go and physically do darshan of Guru ji at a well guarded , manned sikh dharamshala.

As far as I know only the Torah is not printed and distributed and there is no problem of beadbhi ...may be we need to go back to our roots not just forward with technology.

p.s. destroy all printing press permissions especially the one in China

Took the words right outta my mouth!

[simran345]

Jkvlondon penji and Kira Ji have the best ideas as DSGKeepingitreal Ji has summarised to stop beadbi.

[jkvlondon]

I think if we are to move forwards as a renewed whole undivided panth we have to realise the time we accepted and enthroned Guru ji broken into little pieces by our own chotti matt and hands is over ; we need to make Guru Panth whole again by making Guru Granth Sahib ji whole again so both Guru Granth and Guru Panth has no human made divisions.

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,14969