Muslim Indian Brigadier (retired) Evil Israr Rahim Khan Says Operation Blue Star Was Justified

[genie]

One thing Sikhs should learn from operation blue star. Is that demographics and military intelligence is key in winning the next battle.

If you dont have enough numbers you can win elections or create a country. And if you don't have military intelligence you cant plan logistics, communication and resources to tackle the enemy at hand.

[Jonny101]

I think Pakistan is unfairly being blamed here. They are not obliged to help anyone. They allied themselves with the Sikhs because it was a mutually beneficial relationship. They wanted to take revenge for India's role in creating Bangladesh where India helped, supplied and trained Mukti Bahini. Besides this Indian army had invaded Pak territory of Siachen in 1984 during operation meghdoot. So India had given more than enough reasons to ISI to help the Sikhs.

Benazir Bhutto was a corrupt and unprincipled politician no different from Indian politicians. She went against Pakistani interests and ISI objections by betraying the Sikh militants.

[MisterrSingh]

I think Pakistan is unfairly being blamed here. They are not obliged to help anyone. They allied themselves with the Sikhs because it was a mutually beneficial relationship. They wanted to take revenge for India's role in creating Bangladesh where India helped, supplied and trained Mukti Bahini. Besides this Indian army had invaded Pak territory of Siachen in 1984 during operation meghdoot. So India had given more than enough reasons to ISI to help the Sikhs.

Benazir Bhutto was a corrupt and unprincipled politician no different from Indian politicians. She went against Pakistani interests and ISI objections by betraying the Sikh militants.

My issue lies not with Pakistan per se; they're entitled to do whatever they want to further their strategic interests. I do have a problem with our Singhs allying themselves with the followers of a faith that even Guru Gobind Singh Ji had stated cannot be trusted, because they've been proven to be liars despite swearing on their Koran.

That's one bachchan of Dasme Paatshah that was conveniently forgotten at a time when it was perhaps essential to adhere to. And as history eventually proved, it cost us dearly.

The reluctance to honestly and openly question some of the poor decisions made by the Singhs that resulted in the death and destruction of hordes of the Sikh population is quite baffling to me. NOBODY is being an armchair general, or a "hero" after the fact. None of us are fit to lace the boots of those Singhs who fought for Sikhi, and gave their lives at Harmandir Sahib. Yet, it doesn't make any Sikh disloyal to question whether the decisions they made at the time was the best course of action to take. It's what anyone who isn't a sheep should do.

I'm arguing that the fight was necessary, BUT our choice of ally was completely misguided, and strategically, historically, and theologically a very poor choice.

If some of you aren't convinced, let's look at the situation from a wholly spiritual perspective. Logicians, rationalists, and others of similar persuasions don't need to read on:

I believe in the Shaheedi Fauj. I believe they guide us in certain situations, and I'd be astounded if they weren't involved in perhaps the most important period in modern Sikh history - a moment that had the potential to shape our collective destiny for generations - with the events of the early 80's. Are any of you honestly telling me that with a side that featured Brahmgyani Sant Jarnail Singh and other mahapurash, that not ONE of these spiritual powerhouses was approached / advised by Shaheed Singhs, and therefore advised on which potential course of action to take, and who to trust and not trust? So, either Shaheed Singhs didn't bother approaching our Singhs at one of the most pivotal moments in modern Sikh history (completely unlikely), OR any advice given was ignored, because there's NO WAY Shaheed Singhs would've said, "Trust the Pakistanis. They'll guide us to victory." No, total nonsense.

If the aim was victory - and not glorious defeat in a hail of bullets - then why bother going through all the agitation in the first place? I'm sure there's a few of you who've thought these matters through in their mind, but not articulated them. Yet, nothing I've said is anti-Sikh or remotely negative towards our beliefs. If anything, I'm placing arguably undue emphasis on spiritual matters in a period of human and social turbulence, but as I said, I'm a firm believer in the unseen, and I cannot accept the protective hand of our Shaheeds that has been with us for centuries chose to desert us at our time of need, or they chose to withhold essential information that would've benefitted the Singhs of the time.

It is also known that when we think we know better than them, they withdraw their presence and, and leave us to our own devices. Perhaps egos, stubbornness, and unheeded bachchans meant this is what might have happened back then.

[StarStriker]

U seem to keep mentioning blustar/harimandar sahib, and help from pakistan. U do realise pakistan didnt help sikhs at all, until afta 85, wen the civil war started. Ppl linkin bluestar shaheeds and pakistan/isi is an indian govt propaganda which they know will rile the dumb hindus. U only have to look at the weapons the sikhs were using during bluestar (old village/ww2 rifles) and the weapons used during the civil war (85-95), which were hi-tech rpg/uzi/ak-47/74s.

Though, if that isnt wat u implied, then i do apologise.

[MisterrSingh]

U seem to keep mentioning blustar/harimandar sahib, and help from pakistan. U do realise pakistan didnt help sikhs at all, until afta 85, wen the civil war started. Ppl linkin bluestar shaheeds and pakistan/isi is an indian govt propaganda which they know will rile the dumb hindus. U only have to look at the weapons the sikhs were using during bluestar (old village/ww2 rifles) and the weapons used during the civil war (85-95), which were hi-tech rpg/uzi/ak-47/74s.

Though, if that isnt wat u implied, then i do apologise.

Me? I never raised the subject of Pakistan helping the Singhs. In fact, I even went as far to say to say that nobody has ever openly discussed on this site what role they played in Sikh separatism, if any. I responded to your points about Bhutto / ISI betraying Sikhs. I didnt even realise there was a Pakistani involvement until a couple of years ago. Don't go below the belt by trying to shut me up by labeling me as pro-Indian govt. That's pendu politics, and something I didn't expect from you.

[StarStriker]

Me? I never raised the subject of Pakistan helping the Singhs. In fact, I even went as far to say to say that nobody has ever openly discussed on this site what role they played in Sikh separatism, if any. I responded to your points about Bhutto / ISI betraying Sikhs. I didnt even realise there was a Pakistani involvement until a couple of years ago. Don't go below the belt by trying to shut me up by labeling me as pro-Indian govt. That's pendu politics, and something I didn't expect from you.

Eh? Geezer wat/where on earth have u read in my piece above, where i called u pro-indian govt? Mate u gotta read the above again. Jheez.

[KhoonKaBadlaKhoon]

Those who have a problem with the Kharkus doing business with ISI and Pakistan army, can you please suggest another source of weapons/training that would have been available? And one as conveniant as a neighbor? Without Pakistans help war with India was next to impossible. Unless of course you expect Singhs to jump CRPF wale from behind and stab them up.

[khalsaman1]

My issue lies not with Pakistan per se; they're entitled to do whatever they want to further their strategic interests. I do have a problem with our Singhs allying themselves with the followers of a faith that even Guru Gobind Singh Ji had stated cannot be trusted, because they've been proven to be liars despite swearing on their Koran.

That's one bachchan of Dasme Paatshah that was conveniently forgotten at a time when it was perhaps essential to adhere to. And as history eventually proved, it cost us dearly.

The reluctance to honestly and openly question some of the poor decisions made by the Singhs that resulted in the death and destruction of hordes of the Sikh population is quite baffling to me. NOBODY is being an armchair general, or a "hero" after the fact. None of us are fit to lace the boots of those Singhs who fought for Sikhi, and gave their lives at Harmandir Sahib. Yet, it doesn't make any Sikh disloyal to question whether the decisions they made at the time was the best course of action to take. It's what anyone who isn't a sheep should do.

I'm arguing that the fight was necessary, BUT our choice of ally was completely misguided, and strategically, historically, and theologically a very poor choice.

If some of you aren't convinced, let's look at the situation from a wholly spiritual perspective. Logicians, rationalists, and others of similar persuasions don't need to read on:

I believe in the Shaheedi Fauj. I believe they guide us in certain situations, and I'd be astounded if they weren't involved in perhaps the most important period in modern Sikh history - a moment that had the potential to shape our collective destiny for generations - with the events of the early 80's. Are any of you honestly telling me that with a side that featured Brahmgyani Sant Jarnail Singh and other mahapurash, that not ONE of these spiritual powerhouses was approached / advised by Shaheed Singhs, and therefore advised on which potential course of action to take, and who to trust and not trust? So, either Shaheed Singhs didn't bother approaching our Singhs at one of the most pivotal moments in modern Sikh history (completely unlikely), OR any advice given was ignored, because there's NO WAY Shaheed Singhs would've said, "Trust the Pakistanis. They'll guide us to victory." No, total nonsense.

If the aim was victory - and not glorious defeat in a hail of bullets - then why bother going through all the agitation in the first place? I'm sure there's a few of you who've thought these matters through in their mind, but not articulated them. Yet, nothing I've said is anti-Sikh or remotely negative towards our beliefs. If anything, I'm placing arguably undue emphasis on spiritual matters in a period of human and social turbulence, but as I said, I'm a firm believer in the unseen, and I cannot accept the protective hand of our Shaheeds that has been with us for centuries chose to desert us at our time of need, or they chose to withhold essential information that would've benefitted the Singhs of the time.

It is also known that when we think we know better than them, they withdraw their presence and, and leave us to our own devices. Perhaps egos, stubbornness, and unheeded bachchans meant this is what might have happened back then.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

While these are valid points bhaji, you are forgetting the most important thing here.

Everything happens in Waheguru's will. Of course Sant Ji knew everything that was going to happen but we must live in accordance to Waheguru's will. If Sant Ji wanted, they could have used their spiritual powers to crush everyone but this is against the principles of Sikhism and a Sikh with occult powers is prohibited from playing God.

As a reminder, Mian Mir a great Muslim follower of 5th Patshah begged the Guru to allow him to use his occult powers to crush the evil Mughals when they were going to sit the 5th patshah on the tati tavi. However, Guru Arjan Dev Ji said no as we must live in the hukam of Waheugur.

[genie]

Those who have a problem with the Kharkus doing business with ISI and Pakistan army, can you please suggest another source of weapons/training that would have been available? And one as conveniant as a neighbor? Without Pakistans help war with India was next to impossible. Unless of course you expect Singhs to jump CRPF wale from behind and stab them up.

It would be better to use pakistan for what it can be used for just as they think they are using guliable Sikhs for their own agenda. Sikhs must be twice as wise as those in pakistani establishment. Lets remember they have fingers in many pies (afghan taliban, pakistani taliban, kashmiri groups, foreign jihad networks). They are no friend to Khalistan or Sikhs. However if the time comes they can supply weapons and there is a another war going on then there can be a mutual benefical relationship.

The big problem I have with pakistan is that its islamic hellhole full of intolerant salafi sons of dogs who want to see everyone convert to Islam and live under their 7th century arab bullcrap. This kinda people we cant ever do business with or live with. Sufi muslims however on the other hand those who do not wish to cause our religion and our people harm are ok to deal with.

Furthermore general shubegs brother said in an interview few years ago that his brother believed that the pakistani army was going to help if the Indian army ever invaded darbar sahib. He said he had contacts and transmitter or some kinda device where he could request assistance when the time comes and yet when it was pressed the pakistani's did not come to the Sikhs aid.

Even if there was a transmitter or not or that it worked or not. The pakistani's knew what was going on, they had contacts with dal khalsa (who were based in pakistan) and could have sent in commandos and fighters across the border and joined the Sikh rebels. It doesnt take a genius to know within a day what was enfolding in indian punjab, they had news reports from radio and worldwide tv networks. Had they crossed the border they would have routed the indian army easily because the population in punjab would have risen against the indian army after hearing darbar sahib was attacked but the pakistani's held back showing their devious nature. They wanted the Sikhs to get massacred they were actively looking for such an incident so that they could use that as revenge for 1947 and 1971.

Indians fighting each other without their troops getting killed what could be more sweeter than that.

[Jonny101]

I don't think it is wise to mix one's personal prejudicial views about Muslims or Islam with forming a strategic alliance with Pakistan. An enemy of an enemy is a potential friend, let's not forget this very important strategy.

Look at the example of the wise Kurds. They don't like Assad or the government of Baghdad but that doesn't stop them from forming an alliance with each other and in the process gaining and enlarging Kurdistan at the expense of ISIS and FSA held territory.

"You scratch my back and I'll scratch your's" is what it is all about. Try to understand this. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. This is what Kharkoo Singhs did.

No one is a permanent enemy. look at our own Ithihas where we formed alliance with former enemies. When Punjab was under Afghan occupation, Sikhs had formed an alliance with Adina Beg(representing mughals) and the Marathas to drive out the Afghans. It was this 3 party alliance which then drove out the Afghans which now Hindu nationalists wrongly claim as a "Marathas victory" when in fact the Marathas were just one of the 3 members of this alliance, without the Sikhs this victory could not have been possible. This success was short lived though because Abdali returned and crushed the Marathas during the 3rd battle of Panipat and after that carried out the the Vada Ghalukara after the battle of Kup.

And during the second Anglo Sikh war, the Sikhs had formed an alliance with the Afghans against the British. And I'm thinking maybe the Sikhs should have used the same far sightedness in 1857 by regaining our lost Raaj by kicking the British out of Punjab instead of helping them crush everyone else.