Jump to content

Shaheedi - Are there times when it is not worth it?


Ranjeet01
 Share

Recommended Posts

I am starting this particular topic and it might ruffle some feathers, it might make people angry and I apologise if anyone takes offence.

Guru Teg Bahadhur Ji , our 9th Guru was shaheeded in order to save Kashmiri Pandits.

What was great about our Guru was that he sacrificed his life to prevent these people (of another religion) being forcibly converted to Islam.

Now these people approached our Guru for his protection.

Yet it is from these people that the likes of Allama Iqbal  (national poet of Pakistan, whose own grandfather was Kashmiri hindu and apparently came up with the idea of Pakistan) and Nehru (another Kashmiri Pandit) helped to partition Punjab and displace our people from their homeland.

Nehru also spawned Indira Gandhi  who caused the pogroms of our people.

These Kashmiri Pandits are no end of trouble for us Sikhs as they caused the sacrifice of our Guru and our people.

Yet on the other hand the descendents of these people were booted out of the Kashmir Valley by the muslim population in 1989.

Why did our Guru have to give up his life for these people, surely Shaheedi was not worthwhile in this instance?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I am starting this particular topic and it might ruffle some feathers, it might make people angry and I apologise if anyone takes offence.

Guru Teg Bahadhur Ji , our 9th Guru was shaheeded in order to save Kashmiri Pandits.

What was great about our Guru was that he sacrificed his life to prevent these people (of another religion) being forcibly converted to Islam.

Now these people approached our Guru for his protection.

Yet it is from these people that the likes of Allama Iqbal  (national poet of Pakistan, whose own grandfather was Kashmiri hindu and apparently came up with the idea of Pakistan) and Nehru (another Kashmiri Pandit) helped to partition Punjab and displace our people from their homeland.

Nehru also spawned Indira Gandhi  who caused the pogroms of our people.

These Kashmiri Pandits are no end of trouble for us Sikhs as they caused the sacrifice of our Guru and our people.

Yet on the other hand the descendents of these people were booted out of the Kashmir Valley by the muslim population in 1989.

Why did our Guru have to give up his life for these people, surely Shaheedi was not worthwhile in this instance?

Nehru and Indira are blood descendants of Gangu Brahmin so theirs is a deep hatred for sikhs due to their notorious paternal ancestor. Guru Teg Bahadur ji did not save the Hindus but Dharam's freedom it was a much bigger idea, plus he was watering sikhi di booti with his blood giving the first installment of dhiksa for  Guru Gobind Rai ji's amrit.

The Pandits hate sikhs because they know that Guru Nanak Dev ji's coming as predicted in their veds meant the end of the gravy train they had been riding for so many centuries . If the Khalsa  becomes India wide a sikh tidal wave will finish off the caste system for good . This is the main reason we have to be smart and prepared to be self-reliant .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guru sahib gave shaheedi for the principal of free will. The greatest gift given to humans by GOD. No one has a right to impose their will on another. The world is people's own creation hence we see what's around us. Could GOD not make a perfect world if it chooses Yes - but its motive is to allow us to create via free will what we choose. It is free from condemnation and judgement. It does not care what we create what we create we experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I am starting this particular topic and it might ruffle some feathers, it might make people angry and I apologise if anyone takes offence.

Guru Teg Bahadhur Ji , our 9th Guru was shaheeded in order to save Kashmiri Pandits.

What was great about our Guru was that he sacrificed his life to prevent these people (of another religion) being forcibly converted to Islam.

Now these people approached our Guru for his protection.

Yet it is from these people that the likes of Allama Iqbal  (national poet of Pakistan, whose own grandfather was Kashmiri hindu and apparently came up with the idea of Pakistan) and Nehru (another Kashmiri Pandit) helped to partition Punjab and displace our people from their homeland.

Nehru also spawned Indira Gandhi  who caused the pogroms of our people.

These Kashmiri Pandits are no end of trouble for us Sikhs as they caused the sacrifice of our Guru and our people.

Yet on the other hand the descendents of these people were booted out of the Kashmir Valley by the muslim population in 1989.

Why did our Guru have to give up his life for these people, surely Shaheedi was not worthwhile in this instance?

Guru's were enlightened beings and messengers of God. They did what they had to do at the time to set Sikhs and rest of humanity an example as a gold standard of what to strive for.

However as ordinary Sikhs who have many flaws we are not anywhere near at the spiritual levels of the Guru's so then we can understand that any shaheedi that is given should be for self preservation of fellow Sikhs and Sikh religion only. As history and ground realities have shown as no matter how great we are as a community, non-sikhs especially with those we helped so much and are in our debt will always back-stab us and treat us with contempt eventually in very short years after helping them. (ie the british establishment fighting on foreign soil in 2 world wars losing 100,000 turbaned sikh soldiers lives for west's freedom, helping Indian's fighting in azad hind and other armed forces for its freedom pre-1947, Guru teg bahadhur sacrifice for kashmiri hindu pundit community, Sikh armed raiders on horse back looting ahmed shah abdalis booty caravans and releasing hindu girls raped and kidnapped by his army,etc,etc)

Furthermore for all the shaheediya and sacrifices our people have made for others. We need to ask the question....has any community helped us ever in our struggles? I cant think of one. Individuals of communities may have but no community or nation in general has ever come out openly to do something really helpful or great for our community. And in present times they have stood slient and looked the other way over last 30years since the anti-sikh genocide in 1984.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guru Arjan Dev ji shaeedhi demonstarates the ultimate Acceptance. The cycle of Addiction,Preference and Acceptance. Most people stuck in the addiction of a certain outcome in their selfish interests or they spiral down into unhappiness, depression..... As one become more aware he or she may prefer one outcome over the other. but is ok if other happens. But only a Master knows the key to perfection of GOD's plan (Bhana) lies in Acceptance of what's showing up and will utter "Tera keeya meetha lage". 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, sikhni777 said:

Singhs were created after Guru Gobind Singh ji created the Khalsa. So for who was Guru Arjun Dev jis saheedhi?

Well guru hargobind sahib ji, created the 'akal sena', the 1st sikh army, and militarised the sikh panth and asked for youth/weapons/horses, and set up on making the akal takht. Remember ppl laughed in guru jis face, wen as a kid, they succeeded guru arjan dev ji and proclaimed that sikhs will become miltant, and will take badla from now on.So i suppose guru jis shaheedi turned sikhs from pacifists to jawaab dehn waleh!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and Isreal is a religious country that has committed attrocities. Upto this point, i dont think we could say Jewish ppl had done any attrocities, but when they began to see their goal to preserve their race and their country, atrocities were done. Their end goal wasnt religion but country and race, things nonreligious evil ppl fought for like Hitler and Stalin and Mao.so their actions became less religious. And this is what Sikhi must avoid as well. In 1984, some kharkoos had great sense of morals, honor, Sikhi, and dignity. They would not harm the innocents. But some kharkoos got angry when some ppl just spoke badly about Sikhs and blew up a whole bazaar filled with innocent women and children. And cynthia mehmoud documented this in her book Khalistan, freedom fighters for nation. And i was ashamed to read of this. These acts under name of Khalistaan? And it totally made the question they asked valid, "how do we know when u get khalistan, u wont become another isreal? We all thought Jews suffered so much, they would never inflict it upon others. But they did. Like u they talked about ending oppression, freedom, treating everyone fairly.but how will u do it?" the jews did it because survival of their race and country meant more than their religion. God saved their race even after the biggest Holocaust, yet they were willing to forget that God and his religion, for a country. Now everyone hates that country.

So never do antiSikhi or wrong things just to keep our ppl safe.  In the old days, even in 84, sikhs loved to give shaheedis. Any reason would do. In fact sikhs would go do ishnaan at harmander sahib when it was under Mughal lockdown, knowing it would end in death. They would do it for a challenge. Look at Bota Singh Garja Singh shaheedi, lets show these ppl sikhs exist n do shaheedi. There were thousands of sikhs before u n thousands will be after. But only the shaheeds remain forever, only their names r known. 

So similarly,dont think that wat the Gurus did or Sikhs do for humanity and nonSikhs and for God's Hukam ( like 5th guru) is a waste. That will be more beneficial to sikhi than wat we do simply to save our lives and our raaj. Their shaheedis will inspire thousands more to the cause than those killed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Sukhvirk76 said:

So you are suggesting that the guru made a mistake? 

I do not think so.

In my selfish manmukhful ways, I could not do what our Guruji  did.

Like the posters have said before, Guru ji sees the bigger picture, one that I myself am very shortsighted on.

Maybe this is something I need to reflect on.

If you see how Maharaj's hukam and universal law of karma at work, you could say that with Guru Teg Bahadur's Shaheedi and the example he set has set a precedence. He did it for the sake of dharma.

He gave the opportunity to Kashmiri Pandits to improve their situation, to fight back, to join with the Sikhs which they did not.

Did they do this, no they didn't. They carried on doing what these people keep on doing which act cowardly, make themselves victims , betray people who help them when they get a bit of power and then lose everything and become refugees.

There's a lesson in there for us. The Pandits probably deserve everything they get because they brought it on themselves.They have reaped what they have sown.

I think this making me evaluate the concept of Shaheedi ,  in what context it needs to be used and for what purpose and for what you are trying to achieve.

I think also from Guru Teg Bahadhur, we can learn that if you sacrifice your life to help with the bigger picture, do not expect that it would be appreciated.

It needs a lot more reflecting from me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • lol dal panth Panj told me explicitly not to associate with Vadhbhag Singh Sodhi followers!
    • We have lamp (or Jyot) the pure unscented candle for a reason. Traditionally, Patis used candle light (jyot), so they could read SGGS in darkness. Light, elec didn't exist. Dhoop is used to attract the "Good spirits" but also keep freshness where Maharaj will be.  Interestingly and coincidentally I heard Sakhi a few dsys ago. During Dasa Pitha's time these souls were roaming the Earth and even Sangat noticed. Maharaj asked them "y u here?" They replied during recitation of SGGS and making Degh they didn't bother lighting candle. THAT WAS THEE ONLY REASON NO GATI WAS GIVEN TO THEM!!!  AUTHENTICITY NOT CHECKED I heard once on YT like 2 days ago.  If u apply dhoop in one room of your house twice a week u will notice a difference esp in the smell and freshness of that room. 
    • Sangat ji, With the hot weather as per Guru's Hukm, how can we look after our kes?  First of all the beard! Working in Construction, factory and any other heated environment I UNDERSTAND! At my workplace it's over 32 degree celcius and sometimes we have to lift 20kg ALL! DAY! My tips, regularly shampoo the beard during ishnan. APPLY OIL! The technique of applying oil is by rubbing it thoroughly in the roots. Pay attention to the noise esp on the chin. You will hear this "crosh crosh" noise. Keep rubbing oil until u can't hear it no more! This means the oil has blended in properly.  Second tip on beard, keep an extra kanga in your pocket. Every two, three hours give your beard a proper comb down to get rid of any sweat or stickiness. SECOND BENEFIT! Do this all 12 months every single day your beard will look like it's been professionally groomed. TRY IT! People will ask you "What gel u use? How can yer beard be naturally like that?" You can say all I use is coconut oil or whaeva oil but just comb the beard every 2-3 hours for a minute.  As for the kes, morning time get rid of all the gronjra (or knots - forgotten English word), in the morning. However, during evening comb down make sure you get rid of small remaining gronjra and comb yer hair nice and straight. You will feel soooo so relaxed. Yes our hair will go unnoticed due to Dastar, but our hair demands time and self grooming!So proper combing down, spending a good 15-20 mins most evenings is an absolute MUST!  Most evenings I let my hair down and cover hair with my parna for 2-3 hours so it gets to relax from the tying up.  FINAL TIP! We are Sikhs so we keep fighting and remember this! The tradition of Dastar and uncut hair started in India, where the weather is twice as hot. Everytime we bring this thought in the mind, Guru ji will bless us and make us feel cooled down by a notch.  Fateh.       
    • Been so much nindya and attacking Shastarvidiya since the 2000s, however if we look at gatka now it's still mostly as poor and poorly taught as it was back then, still morris dancing moves and still behzti moves in BBC shows about sikhi and vaisakhi. If people were going to attack shastarvidiya, wouldn't have made sense to improve gatka instead and make it more effective? Additionally, the Nihang Singh presence has improved greatly now, and the cracks within the the SGPC and affiliated jatha jathebandis are showing more greatly as panth becomes more knowledgable with dasam bani and itihas day-by-day, so much gyaan which was lost within panjabi sikhs during colonial times. In the 2000s, the groups were able to talk down this bani and  gyaan by associating it with  RSS and hindus, brahminwaad etc. Not working so well now is it? However with gyaan it would be also good for us to try and preserve our martial arts and keertan vidiya as well! More and more crazy keertan videos are coming out from jatha members that are being made fun of and making sangat annoyed and upset, on tiktok and instagram reels.  
    • Author Posted April 24   On 4/21/2025 at 2:43 PM, ipledgeblue said: sirr should not be nanga because keski is usually worn.   Sikhs can sleep nanga-sirr if they choose to . Being from Punjab, almost every Sardaarji i know (amritdhari or not) sleeps/showers with their hair uncovered. I don't think Guru Sahib asked us to wear Dastar to sleep and I don't think it is in SRM.   The idea of "keski being worn to sleep" is cos in Bollywood films (Bachna Ae Haseeno) Sikh characters usually tie a gol parna when sleeping since the actor's usually Hindu. So they gotta cover his head somehow or he'd have cut hair. Same reason Diljit wore a pagg to bed in the El Sueno vid. Only time they didn't do that was in Gadar with Sunny Deol which just looked odd tbh   What in the world? What sikh or even a decent human would base their knowledge of their culture or religion on a movie industry, that too Bollywood?  Believe me, no sikh ever said, I must cover my head becasue an actor did so in a movie. I've been doing it all wrong, I must start covering mh head because the sikh in that movie did.  Just because every panjabi and sardaar you know, does something, also doesn't make it right..  Follow the guru. And if you have a medical condition, then exemptions can be made.  Just admit it, because of my medical condition, I am not able to follow this rehit. Why are you getting everyone else to drop to your level?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use