Sikhi in Malwa

[dallysingh101]

4 minutes ago, puzzled said:

have to give doabis (mainly doabi sikhs) credit   for driving out all the muslims that made over 70% of doabas population pre partition    lol   i mean thats one gd thing lol!     

I ain't knocking them at all. But strong measures need to be taken to counter the slide. 

[Premi5]

12 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Not sure about Malwa. A lot of the parents generation has kesh/dastaar but they still do 'sardar' things like whiskey. Their kids are mona though. I don't think anyone would mock kesh like that myself. Naah, that wouldn't happen as far as I can tell. I've never heard this. 

What do you estimate is the doabia/malwa split in the Uk?

 

90/10?

[puzzled]

One thing though drugs ain't a big issue in doaba   that seems to be more of a majha thing     they do alcohol and tamakhoo and other minor nasha    but not the kind of stuff people do in majha   iv heard some villages in majha have a lot more women because a lot of the men have died of drugs        we dnt have that kind of stuff ...      I guess that's because doaba is the furthest away from the paki border  

Una in himachal Pradesh is part of doaba too    so not sure why they have put that in himachal    they all speak hindi/punjabi in una   only difference is una is mainly mountain area .  

[dallysingh101]

6 hours ago, Premi5 said:

What do you estimate is the doabia/malwa split in the Uk?

 

90/10?

I don't know about the UK, but I think Malwa is probably over represented in East London - maybe down to lots of construction work being done here in the 60s/70s/80s? Remember the place was bombed out in the blitz.    

Another thing, straight up - it seems like nonMalwai people are infinitely more concerned about these regional things and define themselves more strongly along these lines. I can tell by the way people from the other places  go into their regional thing very quickly after you meet them (and as demonstrated on many forums), that it is a more of a thing with them. I never grew up with this regional consciousness, nor did any elders conspicuously go on about it.   It might go back to having a more strong SIkh identity like some people have commented on previously?

This isn't a dig, or put down, but it seems like many Malwa lot are a little bit less rough round the edges - I mean they talk less rustically. Somehow, working with a few desi firms on and off since a teenager has made my Panjabi a bit more teth than is the norm. People comment on that sometimes. They ask me where I learnt my Panjabi.  People from the other two regions do seem more caste centric too. That's considered uncouth by many Malwai folks. 

You know I have a freshie neighbour from Doaba. He's cool. I like him, and I like getting to speak Panjabi with him. We 'buss jokes' and I'm glad to have another apna nearby. But he has all the stereotype Panjabi characteristics (not the good ones lol!). Like the other month he was telling me he wanted a drink but was on the way to the Gurdwara, so I told him not to drink before he goes, but do it after. He sits in a ride with his mate (a UK raised apna) parked on the street  and they drink bottles of whiskey in the evenings. When he gets drunk he swears a lot and gets aggressive. When he first moved here, I think because he might have heard some paat coming from my house (I might have been listening on a speaker), he did, one time, say that thing Puzzled was talking about, to his mate when we were chatting: Eh baba jayha lagda. Which was weird because I'm not even a keshdhari and pretty street (not by choice - more circumstance)????

That question you asked says it all. I've never thought about it or cared. Because we are heavily outnumbered by others, a lot of us are just happy to have some nonpajama apnay around - wherever the f**k they are from.  I didn't know Malwa was the largest region till just now when I googled it. Looks like Malwa is bigger than Majha and Doaba put together?  It says a lot about apnay that not happy with jaat paat fissures they also like to divide themselves along a regional basis. lol! If recent events haven't made this clear to even the most blockheaded brother and sister - we not to stop that stuff. 

 

[dallysingh101]

I'm beginning to suspect a lot of the people I worked with on and off over the years were Doabans? Might have picked up a few dialectical things and pendu teth style of talking from them? 

[Premi5]

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

I don't know about the UK, but I think Malwa is probably over represented in East London - maybe down to lots of construction work being done here in the 60s/70s/80s? Remember the place was bombed out in the blitz.    

Another thing, straight up - it seems like nonMalwai people are infinitely more concerned about these regional things and define themselves more strongly along these lines. I can tell by the way people from the other places  go into their regional thing very quickly after you meet them (and as demonstrated on many forums), that it is a more of a thing with them. I never grew up with this regional consciousness, nor did any elders conspicuously go on about it.   It might go back to having a more strong SIkh identity like some people have commented on previously?

This isn't a dig, or put down, but it seems like many Malwa lot are a little bit less rough round the edges - I mean they talk less rustically. Somehow, working with a few desi firms on and off since a teenager has made my Panjabi a bit more teth than is the norm. People comment on that sometimes. They ask me where I learnt my Panjabi.  People from the other two regions do seem more caste centric too. That's considered uncouth by many Malwai folks. 

You know I have a freshie neighbour from Doaba. He's cool. I like him, and I like getting to speak Panjabi with him. We 'buss jokes' and I'm glad to have another apna nearby. But he has all the stereotype Panjabi characteristics (not the good ones lol!). Like the other month he was telling me he wanted a drink but was on the way to the Gurdwara, so I told him not to drink before he goes, but do it after. He sits in a ride with his mate (a UK raised apna) parked on the street  and they drink bottles of whiskey in the evenings. When he gets drunk he swears a lot and gets aggressive. When he first moved here, I think because he might have heard some paat coming from my house (I might have been listening on a speaker), he did, one time, say that thing Puzzled was talking about, to his mate when we were chatting: Eh baba jayha lagda. Which was weird because I'm not even a keshdhari and pretty street (not by choice - more circumstance)????

That question you asked says it all. I've never thought about it or cared. Because we are heavily outnumbered by others, a lot of us are just happy to have some nonpajama apnay around - wherever the f**k they are from.  I didn't know Malwa was the largest region till just now when I googled it. Looks like Malwa is bigger than Majha and Doaba put together?  It says a lot about apnay that not happy with jaat paat fissures they also like to divide themselves along a regional basis. lol! If recent events haven't made this clear to even the most blockheaded brother and sister - we not to stop that stuff. 

 

I don't know about the UK, but I think Malwa is probably over represented in East London - maybe down to lots of construction work being done here in the 60s/70s/80s? Remember the place was bombed out in the blitz   - this would suggest high Ramgarhia population in Malwa. Are you in construction yourself? Possibly there are more concentration of Malwai in the big cities in UK than there are in the smaller towns because they had less family ties and just wanted to go to the bigger cities. 

For some reason I always thought you were from West London!

The regional thing might be more noticed because Doabias are the majority of NRP , although I have met few Majhails so cannot comment. Perhaps Doabias are proud they have done well as they are/were generally poorer than Malwai (ar least the UK ones) and Majhails in Punjab

Most of the Malwe in UK I think are from around Ludhiana rather than outer Malwa so the dialect and language is closer to standard Punjabi although I think their Punjabi is less like real Punjabi as further away from Amritsar and Lahore and less people who came over from Pakistan during partition compared with Doaba. If you are right that average Doabia speaks more 'theth' it might be because the average first generation immigrant was less educated with than a  Malwai (impression I get from my parents).

I haven't observed a caste-centric attitude much in my interaction with Doabias, I always thought it was more a Malwai thing as that's where my family are from and they are quite conservative re caste. 

I agree Malwa lot are a little bit less rough round the edges.

My observation is that Doabia are much louder/brasher than Malwai I have met, they are more into bhangra and sports like kabaddi. They seem to be closer to their relatives and more friendly. Off topic, but most bhangra singers seem to be doabia, where Malwai singers  typically sing  more melancholic. I think you could compare it (to a lot smaller extent) to the difference between sterotypical Northerner (Doabia) and Southerner (Malwai) in the UK. Doabia also seem to be heavier built which might explain why many of the 'farming community' freshies are builders here. 

My parents are both from Ludhiana district. I have relatives here married into Doabia families, and I find it funny but my parents and their siblings  look down at Doabia as being less educated, more blingy/uncouth and having a slightly funny accent. 

In terms of Sikhi, I think both sides are similar, but less than Majhails

[dallysingh101]

1 hour ago, Premi5 said:

   - this would suggest high Ramgarhia population in Malwa. Are you in construction yourself? Possibly there are more concentration of Malwai in the big cities in UK than there are in the smaller towns because they had less family ties and just wanted to go to the bigger cities. 

Yeah, I've worked in construction on and off since young but worked in a few other nonphysical industries as well. My baba didn't come straight to East London apparently, he was in Kent for a bit beforehand, don't know how long, must have been short. I think people went where the work was, and for construction you'll obviously get more in built up areas usually.  What do you mean by less family ties? Subsequent to Baba ji's arrival, a good few members of the family emigrated to the same area, then a good few members of my moms family came too. 

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For some reason I always thought you were from West London!

The regional thing might be more noticed because Doabias are the majority of NRP , although I have met few Majhails so cannot comment. Perhaps Doabias are proud they have done well as they are/were generally poorer than Malwai (ar least the UK ones) and Majhails in Punjab

 

Nah! You should be able to tell I'm not from west!! lol Where are you from? 

I don't know. It may be a regional cultural thing?  All this regional stuff has only come about recently in my experience, no one talked about it in my younger days. The kids growing up didn't mention it.  The thing is that most apnay who got here prospered, and people helped each other more back in the 70s/80s. I don't think they cared too much about region more likely to be jaat obsessed. Plenty of people from Malwai were poor, I know my grandad was. My great-grandad went blind, so there were big issues with providing. Family had it super tough as a consequence.

 

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Most of the Malwe in UK I think are from around Ludhiana rather than outer Malwa so the dialect and language is closer to standard Punjabi although I think their Punjabi is less like real Punjabi as further away from Amritsar and Lahore and less people who came over from Pakistan during partition compared with Doaba. If you are right that average Doabia speaks more 'theth' it might be because the average first generation immigrant was less educated with than a  Malwai (impression I get from my parents).

I agree, they come from around Ludhiana, like Khanna, Jatana, Doraha. They speak nice. Because of work I think I have picked up a more rural style of talking for some reason? But it's not unsophisticated because I have made effort to increase the sophistication of my vocab, I reckon I know a helluva lot more words than my mom now, mainly through trying to read about Sikhi. Really when I think about it, a lot of us are constrained from having meaningful conversations with olders because of their small unsophisticated vocabulary. I could never get my mom to understand my points. I didn't have the vocab for it, and if I did (like I might have now) she wouldn't have understood. 

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I haven't observed a caste-centric attitude much in my interaction with Doabias, I always thought it was more a Malwai thing as that's where my family are from and they are quite conservative re caste. 

I agree Malwa lot are a little bit less rough round the edges.

 

Even though your parents might be conservative about it, I bet you they don't throw it about all the time like other people do? They aren't in your face about it, like other pendus. It's like one of the first things they'll start talking about within 5 minutes of meeting. lol

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My observation is that Doabia are much louder/brasher than Malwai I have met, they are more into bhangra and sports like kabaddi. Off topic, but most bhangra singers seem to be doabia, where Malwai singers  typically sing  more melancholic. I think you could compare it (to a lot smaller extent) to the difference between sterotypical Northerner (Doabia) and Southerner (Malwai) in the UK. Doabia also seem to be heavier built which might explain why many of the 'farming community' freshies are builders here. 

The northern southern comparison is interesting. Yeah, some pend boys do seem heavily built, but I think that boils down to nutrition growing up. Once you escape poverty and get proper nutrition Panjabis seem to GROW. That's why a lot of the sons are often significantly bigger than their fathers. But then growing up with fresh food and fresh air is only going to do anyone good, no? Plus all the lack of stress and hustle and bustle in the pend (compared to towns) helps them grow too I reckon. 

I think people from the artisan class opened up the building industry here. Even now, people from tarkhan backgrounds I know will usually hire young people from farming backgrounds as labourers and train them up over time. So we have a proliferation of those skills throughout the community.  Panjabi artisans are more open and less clannish, so aren't averse to hiring other jaats from my experience.  Don't know if it is the same with duggus though? 

 

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My parents are both from Ludhiana district. I have relatives here married into Doabia families, and I find it funny but my parents and their siblings  look down at Doabia as being less educated, more blingy/uncouth and having a slightly funny accent. 

And it don't seem like that to you no? lol There is a nasalised thing that Malwai people rarely have sometimes that sounds funny. On the subject of accents, when I first heard Paul Chowdhry talk Panjabi I though he was mocking the sullah accent, but then I learnt that his family are from Rawalpindi so it might be that is actually how they talk? I think he can switch it on and off actually, he does do a Sikh Panjabi accent, but he's nailed the tonda one.  

 

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In terms of Sikhi, I think both sides are similar, but less than Majhails

What do you mean by this? I think Malwais generally seem more spiritually inclined, and have a less less politicised view of their faith. I think they can work with others better than many. As I've said earlier, I think Sant Ishar Singh Ji and other mahapurash were like spiritual atomic bombs in the region. They focused on the more komal aspects of Sikhi to foster a sense of unity. Doabans seem more strongly into Panjabi cultural things you mentioned before. That ain't to say you can't get scoundrels from Malwa though! 

[Premi5]

24 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

My baba didn't come straight to East London apparently, he was in Kent for a bit beforehand,

Gravesend?

 

25 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Nah! You should be able to tell I'm not from west!! lol Where are you from? 

South east near Woolwich 

 

27 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

And it don't seem like that to you no?

I agrre with what they think to an extent but I don't have anything against

 

28 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

What do you mean by this? I think Malwais generally seem more spiritually inclined, and have a less less politicised view of their faith. I think they can work with others better than many. As I've said earlier, I think Sant Ishar Singh Ji and other mahapurash were like spiritual atomic bombs in the region. They focused on the more komal aspects of Sikhi to foster a sense of unity. Doabans seem more strongly into Panjabi cultural things you mentioned before. That ain't to say you can't get scoundrels from Malwa though! 

Not sure that Malwai are more spiritual, but I agree with remainder of what you say

Malwa also has a lot of history connected to 10th Guru.

[dallysingh101]

24 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

Gravesend?

 

Nah, somewhere else I can't remember.

 

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I agrre with what they think to an extent but I don't have anything against

I ain't got nothing against them either, them guys can be serious fun - even if it is for the wrong reasons. lol 

God forbid, but if it ever were to kick off, they are ones I would want to put up my stand with.  

They remind me of my first ever job in warehouse and all the kartootaan that went on there. It's a very blokey, macho culture. And those experiences I had really did shape me - for better or for worse. 

 

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Not sure that Malwai are more spiritual, but I agree with remainder of what you say

Malwa also has a lot of history connected to 10th Guru.

 

Even afterwards. I think later Singhs went back to Brar territory there (when being hunted) and had all manner of issues with the descendents of the people dasmesh padshah stayed with and mentions in Zafarnama. Bhangu exposes all of it. A lot of people were smacked down by the Khalsa there. A lot of funky stuff happened according to Bhangu. 

[puzzled]

2 hours ago, Premi5 said:

Perhaps Doabias are proud they have done well as they are/were generally poorer than Malwai (ar least the UK ones) and Majhails in Punjab

you guys have better zameen/soil  and make more money in Punjab  its something doabis acknowledge    perhaps because of our close proximity to himachal the zameen is more "rocky"   but iv heard people say how zameen quality in your areas and majha is a lot better. we also have less zameen in our areas    the pinds in doaba are very close   you can see the neighboring pind from your roof top,  while in the bhatinda area i notices the pinds are very far apart and more zameen.  

 

2 hours ago, Premi5 said:

If you are right that average Doabia speaks more 'theth'

we do   lol  doabi punjabi is more rough and earthy sounding  lol     iv read how our punjabi has some pahari influence from himachal as doabais historically used to trade with the neighboring pahari areas.  its nothing to do with education its just the doabia dialect     they speak the same way in the banks, offices as well  lol 

 

2 hours ago, Premi5 said:

I haven't observed a caste-centric attitude much in my interaction with Doabias, I always thought it was more a Malwai thing as that's where my family are from and they are quite conservative re caste. 

this is true, doaba is mainly a dalit/chamar area   over 40% of the sirpanches of the pinds are chamars. the sirpance in both my mums and dads pind are chamars.  chamars are very dominant in Doaba    because of this interaction between jatts and chamars is quite common   people go to each others weddings, family events, funerals  etc     iv noticed some people from amritsar mocking this!   people from other regions might find this strange but its quite normal for us! 

 

2 hours ago, Premi5 said:

My observation is that Doabia are much louder/brasher than Malwai I have met

true        also theres a lot of socially corrupt behavior in doabis lol! promiscuity, profanity etc  you see a lot of this in our pinds! and people dont shy away from openly talking about this stuff!           people from malwa/majha seem more cultured and religious in my experience    iv been bhatinda  and people were quite humble around there   they were quit traditional   

i also noticed very few kotis there   doaba is full of massive towering kotis