An interesting note. All the cult deras in Panjab/Haryana were started by former Sikhs.

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, puzzled said:

yeah your right, a lot of men in our community drink to get away from reality, they use alcohol as an escape. Different communities escape from problems in different ways, in our community men just go for alcohol. In South Asian culture alcohol has always been romanticized. Countless folk tales of involve men, tragedy and alcohol, its just the way our culture has evolved. I have heard of so many men fed up of reality and then using alcohol as an escape, the problem is they don't know how to deal or address the problem and instead try to escape it or block it out. Another problem is in our culture men are not supposed to show emotion or signs of giving up or struggle. Men are the ones that are supposed to represent the household/family and then there is the whole financial thing, the higher the £££ the better the man in our community is considered.  I wonder how many Punjabi women actually know whats really going on inside their mans mind, or have even cared to ask...   There are far more middle aged drunk men than younger men in our community, i wounder why ...  

My family has many men who have just given up and drink everyday, trust me its real ...

Not saying that every Punjabi man drinks to escape, obviously there are many who just do it out of habit.

 

from the way both Ranjeet and you put it , it is clear that men are too invested in their image to show 'weakness' to their life partners/families so use their ego's need to justify a pointless and futile dive into the bottle .  Is that not the true weakness , to obey one's fear of loki's taane rather than share the burden of their worries with the missus so she can adjust her demands downwards or whatever to ease what she can . Not giving her a chance to help is like saying you're too big to take it ...silly  you're in it together, for life .

[puzzled]

31 minutes ago, jkvlondon said:

from the way both Ranjeet and you put it , it is clear that men are too invested in their image to show 'weakness' to their life partners/families so use their ego's need to justify a pointless and futile dive into the bottle .  Is that not the true weakness , to obey one's fear of loki's taane rather than share the burden of their worries with the missus so she can adjust her demands downwards or whatever to ease what she can . Not giving her a chance to help is like saying you're too big to take it ...silly  you're in it together, for life .

The problem is our culture does not expect men to show their weakness or struggle. Many cultures especially western have evolved drastically, its Ok for a man to say he is struggling, In our culture it is very rare for a man to admit he is not happy and is struggling, why? because its not expected. Just look at arranged marriages, man has to be financially stable etc In fact thats how men are judged when it comes to rishte  which is fine but can you imagine the pressure that builds up in some mens minds. In our culture their are expectations of this is what a woman should be like and this is what a man should be like, and it is not expected for a man to share/show his weakness and struggle. Traditionally men were not supposed to share their feelings, many cultures have changed but in ours its still the same. Ever wounder why so many Punjabi men are angry all the time? I'm not married but i have seen this in my family all my life, you can tell there is a lot going on inside but but sharing it is seen as a weakness, you can tell they have a lot going on inside. Depression among men in our community is really high, Just look at the number of jatt men committing suicide in Punjab, everyday its another man ...  

[puzzled]

People say how the previous generation had less divorce rates and better marriages! If they had a choice then the previous generation would of had a very high divorce rate. To save their image and families image people in the previous generation just stayed stuck in crappy marriages.    

Also why do some many guys have weaker relationships with their fathers than they do with their fathers? so many guys iv spoken to in their 20s have said how they are much more closer to their mothers than they are to their fathers. I doubt many Punjabi guys have open heart to heart talks with their dads! something quite not right there either.  

[Ranjeet01]

7 hours ago, puzzled said:

People say how the previous generation had less divorce rates and better marriages! If they had a choice then the previous generation would of had a very high divorce rate. To save their image and families image people in the previous generation just stayed stuck in crappy marriages.    

Also why do some many guys have weaker relationships with their fathers than they do with their fathers? so many guys iv spoken to in their 20s have said how they are much more closer to their mothers than they are to their fathers. I doubt many Punjabi guys have open heart to heart talks with their dads! something quite not right there either.  

The attitude of JKV is precisely why a lot of our men folk will drink themselves to death.

I am going ignore JKV's posts because she has nothing of value to add. 

The relationship between father and son can be a perilous one but it can be a good one.

A father-son relationship cannot be the same as mother-son relationship. 

I was listening to a Joe Rogan podcast with Christine Sommers (she is a psychologist ) and there was research in Australia regarding male counselling. 

Talking about feelings is a very fem-Centric way to do things, it helps to certain degree with men but not entirely .

Men by nature are deductive problem solvers and the way to counsel men has to be done in a problem solving capacity. 

This how the male psyche works, this is how we are hard wired to operate.

I guess if a son has a problem and he asks his father, it has to be done in a particular way. It has to be asked as if it is a problem you need to solve. You may find that father will be more receptive. 

[Ranjeet01]

9 hours ago, TigerForce1 said:

Yes veera!  Married with two kids.

Looks like this is turning into an healthy discussion examining the psychology behind the Punjabi drink culture.

Difficult one but we have to be honest and ask why are men from other faith groups able resist alcohol as an companion if stress, work and family issues are the reasons for people to turn to it during testing times.

Other communities have their vices as well. 

The difference being is that we like to hang our dirty laundry in public, other communities keep things behind closed doors. 

Our heavy drinking culture has lot in common with the Scots and Irish  (there seems to some kind of affinity with celts for some reason)

The Ghristi Jeevan life is tough. There is a burden of performance that men have to encounter. 

No matter how empowered our bibian like to think they are, ultimately they will look to their husbands when the chips are down.

There is a hierarchy :

children----- mother ------ then father (husband)

[Ranjeet01]

8 hours ago, puzzled said:

The problem is our culture does not expect men to show their weakness or struggle. Many cultures especially western have evolved drastically, its Ok for a man to say he is struggling, In our culture it is very rare for a man to admit he is not happy and is struggling, why? because its not expected. Just look at arranged marriages, man has to be financially stable etc In fact thats how men are judged when it comes to rishte  which is fine but can you imagine the pressure that builds up in some mens minds. In our culture their are expectations of this is what a woman should be like and this is what a man should be like, and it is not expected for a man to share/show his weakness and struggle. Traditionally men were not supposed to share their feelings, many cultures have changed but in ours its still the same. Ever wounder why so many Punjabi men are angry all the time? I'm not married but i have seen this in my family all my life, you can tell there is a lot going on inside but but sharing it is seen as a weakness, you can tell they have a lot going on inside. Depression among men in our community is really high, Just look at the number of jatt men committing suicide in Punjab, everyday its another man ...  

Even in the west, suicide of men under the age of 50 is one of the biggest killers.

There are a lot of underlying issues and some of those issues, men in Punjab also have.

[jkvlondon]

1 hour ago, Ranjeet01 said:

The attitude of JKV is precisely why a lot of our men folk will drink themselves to death.

I am going ignore JKV's posts because she has nothing of value to add. 

The relationship between father and son can be a perilous one but it can be a good one.

A father-son relationship cannot be the same as mother-son relationship. 

I was listening to a Joe Rogan podcast with Christine Sommers (she is a psychologist ) and there was research in Australia regarding male counselling. 

Talking about feelings is a very fem-Centric way to do things, it helps to certain degree with men but not entirely .

Men by nature are deductive problem solvers and the way to counsel men has to be done in a problem solving capacity. 

This how the male psyche works, this is how we are hard wired to operate.

I guess if a son has a problem and he asks his father, it has to be done in a particular way. It has to be asked as if it is a problem you need to solve. You may find that father will be more receptive. 

why are you quoting a guy and then complaining about me ? Get it straight I am aware that there is a high level of expectation from women but that is fed from their folks(you can do whatever you like once you get married (wrong)) and bollywood depiction of married life (easy breezy no problems -he's a hero / any problem conflict- he's a loser/cad) and there are plenty of them who are capable of being empathetic towards their husbands if they are given a chance to help out . My brothers were never expected to be supportive  so grew up selfish but so did my sister , I'm the one that was the go to for both parents and I still am for both sets of parents . The way I have supported my husband is given him a sounding board for his 'problem solving' and full support when he wanted to change jobs /do things he's interested in like scuba , motorcycling , jujitsu even if it means he's away from home more often because I recognise his need for release of stress, self-expression, alone time .  He's gone from employee to self-employed contractor  and back even though it put our family income at risk ... all with my backing because I recognised his need to challenge himself .

Our kids find it easier to be open with me because the perfectionist in him doesn't allow him to be patient or fully constructive as he cannot step back into 'beginner's mind'  but that is something in his personality not necessarily his gender as there are many guys who can e.g. my eldest son .  I expect  my kids to work things out by themselves with option to ask as many questions as they like once we've ironed out the steps needed to be taken to achieve their goals .

I do not agree with those women who sit back and expect everything on a plate despite the hardships their husbands go through , I consider them failures as wives . Why should I consider my husband as a lesser human - he wants to be heard, understood and cared for just like me and really I can see that he and a lot of guys are abandoned to their fates in their teens , which is why I chose NOT to follow the typical haranguing pattern that previous generations use to force my kids on to the conveyor belt .