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Singhs taking opium in Gur sobha granth


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20 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

In dal panth it is said that opium helps bihangam nihangs to keep jat da pehra (celibacy).

Well, if you are saying that it is used to suppress sexual urges, I guess that isn't surprising given that it appears to be a very potent analgesic. 

I've never had any, but from what I gather (and I could be wrong) it works on certain opioid receptors and appears to disrupt pain signals? That's probably why people can do extra work on it. 

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Dear dallysingh veer

I need bit of help but I am unable to send u message.

 

Veer my messenger is off. If anyone wants to say something, say it in the open. 

What I will say to you is (and knowing that you are in India):

However our ancestors interacted with and used afeem, please (for your own sake!) DO NOT USE IT. Personally, I get funny about even taking codeine pills regularly. Be conscious of the highly addictive nature of the substance. This stuff isn't remotely like sukha. 

I've heard of relatives being given tiny amounts when they go to India (from the UK)  because they get the sh1ts bad over there and it seems to quickly sort that out (I asked them about any intoxicating feeling they may have experienced and they told me that they didn't feel any). I've heard of a very elderly relative having some placed under their tongue when they had a sudden stroke which seemed to have prolonged their life and combat the partial paralysis commonly associated with that condition. But again, if that Gursobha quote is historically accurate, then you have to remember dasmesh pita is Waheguru, Waheguru made everything including plants and knows how to use them in a beneficial way. You can't say that about the ahhm pendu today.

Also remember where most of the afeem is coming from. Sullay countries. This is another strategy to attempt to weaken and destroy us by them.  

 

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Opium has been part of jatt culture of punjab for a long time now.

Many of our ancestors took opium and worked like crazy in the fields and lived long lives. 

Navjot sidhu sometime back tried to make opium farming legal in punjab.

 

Yeah, but how different is 'chittah' compared to opium? 

 

Personally (and no one has to agree with me), I favour a legalisation non criminalisation approach to these things myself. I mean before goray turned up, there was no strict ban and enforcement at governmental levels of these plant based psychotropics in Panjab that I know of, and society seemed to have worked just fine, with self regulation. To me it looks like when things get banned and ruthless people get to make loads of money off it (like prohibition),  that is when we start having serious epidemics of these things. Banning itself seems to make more people curious about it somehow??

If pendus insist on indulging in opium I would rather apnay grew it themselves for the market, instead of bolstering the pak/afghan economy by buying it from them. 

And don't even bring in jutt culture into this - everyone knows jutts LOVE nasha - especially drinking and doing bhangra (which they've spread to the rest of the panth....). It's like a sad joke now. 

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If your great grandfathers is from Punjab they used opium. Each and every household in Punjab till early 1900s had opium in their kitchen. Dont believe me just call the oldest person alive in your fam

http://jhatkamaryada.com/2017/04/24/akali-nihang-bola/ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਜੀ ਕਹੈ ਪਾਰਵਤੀ ਕੋ ਬੀਜਿਆ ਨਾ ਦੇਹ ਗ੍ਵਾਰਣ ਕੌ, ਸਾਧ ਸ਼ਕੇ ਜਪ ਚਿੱਤ ਲਾਇ ਹਰੀ ਕਾ ਨਾਮ ਉਚਾਰਨ ਕੋ ਸੂਰਮਾ ਸ਼ਕੇ ਰਣ ਜੁੱਧ ਕਰੈ ਹਾਥੀ ਕਾ ਸੀਸ ਉਤਾਰਣ ਕੋ, ਮੂਰ

On Hola, Singhs get tyar bar tyar with shastars and show their shatarvidya skills to the Guru. Singhs used to hv Shaheedi degh on Hola.  So yes Shaheedi degh helps in shastarvidya. ਰਿਤੁ

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8 minutes ago, GavinSingh said:

I wonder if its a good idea that we should believe drug induced poets when retelling our history. Santokh Singh has basically made our Guru and his followers into drug abusers.  Opium is probably one of the worst drugs for addiction and we are supposed to believe that our Dashmesh Pitha was a user. Some of the comments on here are hugely disturbing, the way people so eagerly believe if Nihangs do it then its ok ?  Have you spoken to Nihangs when intoxicated, they are so far removed from Sikhi its unbelievable. I think its about time we boycotted so called Granth's that are anathema to our Guru Granth Sahib.  

Macauliffe is hypocrite himself. 

He says that about Kavi Santokh and then essentially uses the Kavis work as the basis of large sections of his own work. 

 

You can't just discard a granth because it has one or two things you don't like in it. You must khoj it in its entirety.  

What the heck kind of name is Gavin for a Sikh btw??!!??!!

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16 hours ago, BhForce said:

These granths are not Gurbani, bro.

You realize that, don't you? 

They're just written by humans. What do you think, they descended from heaven?

 

Of course, but they may reference things witnessed by contemporaries. Even if some of those things get people's panties in a bunch today for whatever reason. 

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@shastarSingh

Veer, be really careful about taking extracts from various sources and sticking them in one place like this makes things authoritative. 

Personally I believe the complete works should be read and analysed. Otherwise you get a similar situation to that with the '52 hukams' of Guru Gobind Singh ji, where someone has very selectively presented extracts from a range of rehatnamas to present a certain neat image of the past, which, if we read all of the sources of these individual hukams, doesn't hold up. 

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3 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Macauliffe is hypocrite himself. 

He says that about Kavi Santokh and then essentially uses the Kavis work as the basis of large sections of his own work. 

What the heck kind of name is Gavin for a Sikh btw??!!??!!

I've just ordered his book, so will look at it closely. Ha Gavin ? who says what is a Sikh name ? is their a book? or maybe a Granth,  Is Ram a sikh name?, what constitutes a Sikh name ? I've never heard of Dally either or is it supposed to be Wally, maybe better suited hey? 

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26 minutes ago, GavinSingh said:

I've just ordered his book, so will look at it closely. Ha Gavin ? who says what is a Sikh name ? is their a book? or maybe a Granth,  Is Ram a sikh name?, what constitutes a Sikh name ? I've never heard of Dally either or is it supposed to be Wally, maybe better suited hey? 

Gavin! 

If you're going to choose a whitey name, don't make it the most chaviest one that is available for goodness sake.......

I'm not a fan of Macauliffe's work myself. He seems like a colonialist white man trying to placate Sikhs for political expediency. Yes, Sikhs of the time took the opportunity to get him to record traditions, but the work reeks of protestant xtianity. 

Here's a piece on him. It's a bit academic and has big words in it - so if you're working class gora - you'll probably struggle to get through it - that's if you manage at all. Gavin.....

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/49597872/Max-Arthur-Macauliffe-From-Templeglantine-to-the-Golden-Temple-full

 

 

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yeah far too many big words, prefer something with pictures.....you have to have free trial, so will look at it later.  From what I am gathering, it seems the best approach to our history is to look at anything that  was definitely not written during the times of Gurus will have some ingested colour, bias and even outright lies, especially if it doesn't match the Guru Granth Sahib. Eg many passages outrightly condemn drugs so why would it be ok for the Gurus and their followers to carry opium? Surely the energy of the Dsahmesh pitha was enough. The opium story can only be true if the Guru was indeed an ordinary fellow, just like me and you, well maybe like me. Thx 

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11 minutes ago, GavinSingh said:

yeah far too many big words, prefer something with pictures.....you have to have free trial, so will look at it later.  From what I am gathering, it seems the best approach to our history is to look at anything that  was definitely not written during the times of Gurus will have some ingested colour, bias and even outright lies, especially if it doesn't match the Guru Granth Sahib. Eg many passages outrightly condemn drugs so why would it be ok for the Gurus and their followers to carry opium? Surely the energy of the Dsahmesh pitha was enough. The opium story can only be true if the Guru was indeed an ordinary fellow, just like me and you, well maybe like me. Thx 

Thing is, Gursobha is supposed to have been written by someone who was contemporary to dasmesh pita. It is purportedly from the time of our Guru. 

To jump from that, which says some Singhs had afeem in the context of an impending long horseback journey, and that carrying arms - to the idea of Guru ji themselves taking afeem (which I don't believe) is a big leap, and conflating two things unnecessarily.  

You should increase your vocab too. Otherwise you might condemn yourself to think in simplistic childlike terms. We've got enough simpletons as it is. 

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Dear dallysingh veer

I am looking for sources which mention use of meat and/or cannabis/Opium by Sikhs.

I found some sources from sikhcybermuseum.com and have posted them in this thread but I am looking for more sources.

Searching the internet I found James Brown writing something about the sikhs.Did he mention anything about cannabis or meat?

Any Persian sources which talk about meat or cannabis?

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8 hours ago, AjeetSingh2019 said:

I am suspecting Shaastar Singh is fake account of dolly Singh and he trying really hard to get his Nasha legitimized here. LMAO . 

Amli posti aa tu pakka 

We don't have the hardcore nasha problems you guys in India have over here in the community. I suggest you look closer to home for a real problem to solve. 

Besides, you can talk, trying to legitimise your gandupunh at every opportunity. 

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6 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Dear dallysingh veer

I am looking for sources which mention use of meat and/or cannabis/Opium by Sikhs.

I found some sources from sikhcybermuseum.com and have posted them in this thread but I am looking for more sources.

Searching the internet I found James Brown writing something about the sikhs.Did he mention anything about cannabis or meat?

Any Persian sources which talk about meat or cannabis?

Veer, if someone is really that concerned about finding such sources, it isn't hard to do given the availability of old texts on the Internet.

 

I'm wondering why this is so important to you? 

Never heard of James Brown's account? The only James Brown I know is late singer. 

 

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25 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Veer, if someone is really that concerned about finding such sources, it isn't hard to do given the availability of old texts on the Internet.

 

I'm wondering why this is so important to you? 

Never heard of James Brown's account? The only James Brown I know is late singer. 

 

https://www.allaboutsikhs.com/british/browne-major-james

He wrote history of the origin and progress of Sikhs in 1788.

It is important to me because I strongly feel shaheedi degh and shikaar/jhatka are part of khalsa rehit.

Opium could be used by some but it's not part of rehit.

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5 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

https://www.allaboutsikhs.com/british/browne-major-james

He wrote history of the origin and progress of Sikhs in 1788.

It is important to me because I strongly feel shaheedi degh and shikaar/jhatka are part of khalsa rehit.

Opium could be used by some but it's not part of rehit.

Bhai ji, if you look at extant rehats about this stuff, it's not a uniform picture. Some rehats tolerate certain substances under discussion (some begrudgingly), some do not. It's not a simple straight forward uniform position. 

As you can tell from extant early accounts, it's mainly hardcore nihangs aka akalis that are associated with sukh-nidhaan.

Personally I feel, given the outright umlipunh in Panjab right now, these things (excess nasha) shouldn't be encouraged. Personally, my interest is in medical applications. Here are some possible applications, some of these conditions are ones members of my families, friends, family of friends suffer from, so I have that motivation. Epilepsy is another condition it shows real promise in, especially with young children.

1126626374_cannabinoidresearchstill.thum

This video is from the main researcher on sukha in Israel. He's been studying it for many decades -

 

 

You might want to explore this link:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/18913-the-scientist-2015-medical-marijuana-studying-for-a-higher-purpose-prof-dr-raphael-mechoulam-video/?page=2

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Dode are really addictive   my thia in punjab had a heart attack because he tried quitting dode lol 

My dads friend here in the uk is addicted to dode   if he doesnt get his daily dosage then he gets a high fever, cant even get out of bed   he gets constipated and really sick   lol      so my dad used to grow dode in our front garden for his friend lol 

If he don't get his dode then he starts drinking heavily 

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