Singhs taking opium in Gur sobha granth

[puzzled 4,392]

My thia takes dode like 4 am 5 am first thing in the morning 

[dallysingh101 7,440]

2 minutes ago, puzzled said:

My thia takes dode like 4 am 5 am first thing in the morning 

What exactly is dode? 

[dallysingh101 7,440]

33 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Dode are really addictive   my thia in punjab had a heart attack because he tried quitting dode lol 

My dads friend here in the uk is addicted to dode   if he doesnt get his daily dosage then he gets a high fever, cant even get out of bed   he gets constipated and really sick   lol      so my dad used to grow dode in our front garden for his friend lol 

If he don't get his dode then he starts drinking heavily 

The way opioids interact with our body is serious!

I've seen people have bags and bags of sukha (not that I'm condoning this!) and still be alive. Opioids can easily be overdosed on and kill you!

[puzzled 4,392]

34 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

What exactly is dode? 

Poppy seeds   

[dallysingh101 7,440]

1 minute ago, puzzled said:

Poppy seeds   

I have poppy seeds myself sometimes. I don't find them intoxicating or addictive???

[dallysingh101 7,440]

‘I have been suffering from severe pain. I travelled to receive treatment and now I travel to a village 280 miles away from here just to get a prescription for morphine,’ explains Nita*, a 37-year-old mother from Gujarat, Western India.

She is dying from advanced mouth cancer. Her husband left his job to care for her in her final months, and, with the added travel costs to get pain relief, took on loans to meet the family’s needs. Their children then had to stop going to school, so they could work as labourers to pay off their growing debts.

Incredibly, Nita is one of the ‘lucky’ ones. At least she is able to access pain relief. Many other patients die in agony due to India’s opioid paradox: the country is one of the world’s leading producers of opioid medicines, yet only four per cent of its palliative care patients receive the morphine they should be getting.

 

 

https://newint.org/features/2019/02/28/india’s-opioid-paradox

[shastarSingh 3,469]

**Yeah, but how different is 'chittah' compared to opium? **

Chatardhara(opium) that nihangs take is organic.

Chitta is synthetic.

If we convert chitta addicts in punjab into afeem addicts,it will be a big seva.

That's exactly what navjot sidhu wanted to do

[shastarSingh 3,469]

Poppy seeds r called khas kiss.

Dode r different. 

[dallysingh101 7,440]

1 minute ago, shastarSingh said:

**Yeah, but how different is 'chittah' compared to opium? **

Chatardhara(opium) that nihangs take is organic.

Chitta is synthetic.

If we convert chitta addicts in punjab into afeem addicts,it will be a big seva.

That's exactly what navjot sidhu wanted to do

Chitta (heroin) isn't synthetic, it's opium that has been processed in a different way. Opium is more of a raw form of opiate. 

[dallysingh101 7,440]

1 minute ago, shastarSingh said:

Poppy seeds r called khas kiss.

Dode r different. 

How? Do you know?

 

[shastarSingh 3,469]

1 minute ago, dallysingh101 said:

How? Do you know?

 

Khas khas is used by most.they don't have any nasha. 

U can easily buy them from market in punjab.

[puzzled 4,392]

33 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I have poppy seeds myself sometimes. I don't find them intoxicating or addictive???

I'm not sure what they do with it then to make it so addictive and intoxicating ...

[MrDoaba 984]

This thread poses two problems as I see it, which have already been mentioned.

1) Some people will read this and use it as an excuse to promote or engage in recreational drug use and abuse.
2) Some people may think use of these substances is a requirement in Sikhi.

Neither are acceptable.

Then the two extremes, either the typical "drugs are bad, war on drugs!" or "drugs are allowed, shako ji shako!" - both are completely and utterly ignorant.

References to drugs in Gurbani refer to those who used them for spiritual purposes like some Sadhus and mastane faqirs still do today, who use them to achieve spiritual ecstasy or aid in meditation etc. OR it refers to those who used them recreationally, to enjoy and have a good time (which further has its own set of issues). Both examples are prohibited in Sikhi. The key lies in the distinction of intention.

Is it believable Sikhs in the past used afeem? Yes of course. I don't know why that's so surprising. They weren't using it recreationally i.e. to have a good time. Its application was practical and limited. Much in the way opiates (and other drugs which have intoxicating qualities) are used pharmaceutically today. Of course Ayurveda knew about this well before western medicine and it's not like Sikhs didn't apply Ayurvedic or natural remedies....unless you're under the illusion that every single Singh back in the day was a Mahapurkh and could tap into Shakti at will, didn't need to do any religious practise, and didn't need to use food, water, medicine like everyone else....and the "get high on Naam bro!" or "Gurbani is my medicine bro!" rhetoric.

Afeem and bukki (dodeh, poppy husk) are mainly used for their stimulating properties (or maybe a combination of relaxing-stimulation?). To increase focus and energy. It's been mentioned here that Singhs used it on long horseback journeys or for carrying heavy loads. To stay awake. It's also makes sense why scholars and the like would have used it too; compiling those hefty Granths is no easy feat.

If you look at its use today, it doesn't differ much; farmers, labourers, long haul drivers etc. The Chinese also seeked the more stimulating high rather than relaxing from it - look into accounts. I even remember seeing in a doco about the opioid crisis in America, some referring to certain medications over there as providing a "speedy" buzz (Oxycodone iirc).

The opium poppy has numerous compounds, not all produce the kick-back-and-chill effect. There's various factors that determine this though; cultivar/variety of plant, processing, dose etc.

I will say, one should really look into how it's used and why. Singhs didn't just have khulli chhuti to use what they wanted when they wanted. They still had rules and regulated it in their own way. They possessed the control to use it safely. There are those who didn't and you can see them for yourself today, not in good shape.

16 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Well, if you are saying that it is used to suppress sexual urges, I guess that isn't surprising given that it appears to be a very potent analgesic. 

I've heard different from faujis. Ask your fauji builder mates about this. Likely they'll tell you the opposite..that it's used as an aphrodisiac. It even comes as a proprietary preparation called 'Kamini Vidrawan Ras'. Obviously many of these lot simply use it for afeem's 'regular' effects.

But sure it probably can be used for supressing sexual desire, perhaps that's dose dependant.

However using it for that reason is a blag. The majority of Bihangam/Brahmachari haven't used, and, don't use afeem. The whole point of controlling this desire is to conquer the mind as a whole, to subdue the Panj Chor. Using a substance for that is a cop-out. @shastarSingh

We also know it's been used in other scenarios too: anti-diarrhoeal, analgesic, blood thinner (during heart attacks and strokes). All medicinal as are the above reasons.

The amount of stimulants apne use today; chaa every 15mins, coffee, knocking back cans of Red Bull they may as well take feem lol.

People don't wanna face reality these days, having an idealistic rose-tinted view of the past. And/or have filled their head with propaganda which makes them spaz out at the briefest mention of such things like feem or sukha. Little do they know they've probably already taken a drug derived from these two natural sources or will have to at some point in their lives, and with that I hope you too face the accusation of being an amli, anti-Gurmat and all the rest of the bakwaas that is spouted. Next time you feel tired or fatigued don't drink any caffeine or anything energy boosting, next time your kachhera needs changing because you have the sh!ts don't take Imodium or any anti-diarrhoeal medication (because most are opiate based), next time you have pain, refuse any opiate based painkiller. Hell why stop there, don't take any substance or medication which is even remotely mind-altering!

17 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Personally (and no one has to agree with me), I favour a legalisation non criminalisation approach to these things myself. I mean before goray turned up, there was no strict ban and enforcement at governmental levels of these plant based psychotropics in Panjab that I know of, and society seemed to have worked just fine, with self regulation.

For what it's worth, I myself agree with this approach.

Although everyone should heed this...Warning: Do not take any opiate based substances unnecessarily. They can be highly addictive and destructive if not used correctly, and if used for extended periods of time.

 

Gurbar Akaal!

[MrDoaba 984]

@dallysingh101 @puzzled

Dodeh - ਡੋਡੇ  refer to the whole poppy, the pods. These are consumed once dried, seeds discarded, and then crushed - poppy husk. Sometimes referred to as bukki - ਭੁੱਕੀ. This is what puzzled's thaiya takes.

Also occassionally called ਪੋਸਤ - refers to the whole plant though I think? Also where the term posti comes from.

Khas khas - ਖਸਖਸ are the seeds inside said pod. Culinary uses only. Readily available. No nasha. What Dally puts in his dudh. What they use in non-intoxicating shardaayee/thandai (the summer drink).

Afeem or opium is what seeps out when the pods are scored. Dark brown or black when dried.

 ^ Poppy (doda) being scored. Opium (afeem) seeping out. Seeds (khas khas) are inside.

[puzzled 4,392]

i think it all comes down to your intentions!  weed can have health benefits and helps people with depression, anxiety etc  its even helps people who have epileptic fits,  iv even read how it kills cancer.  But using it just to get high/intoxicated is just wrong.  weed has been used in india for 1000s of years as medication.