Singhs taking opium in Gur sobha granth

[shastarSingh]

11 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

And what are you then? An unparh Sikh?

You should read these things yourself instead of being lazy. And when you read them, look for more than just mentions of sukha, afeem and maas. There are other important things within believe it or not. What the hell is your obsession with only these things anyway? It's getting weird? Are you a drug addict? 

For me, (and no one has to agree!!) there is a big question mark on the purported account by Bhai Jaita Singh because no original can be found, and it in itself is supposed to be a translation of a work in bhattachari that no one is able to locate.  

I posted most of the important early sources of Sikh itihaas (that I could find) on my scribd account - if that helps. I linked to it in an earlier post. Use it and stop asking people to read for you. 

U could hv used better words for a fellow sikh. There r hundreds of sources out there and I m no scholar and u seem to hv read lots of granth.

I'm no drug addict but I love shaheedi degh and meat killed and cooked by Guru ki Fauj and just very curious to know what our 18th century sources hv to say about that.

I never knew there was doubt over the authenticity of gur katha. I didn't understand about the bhattachari thing.

[dallysingh101]

1 hour ago, shastarSingh said:

U could hv used better words for a fellow sikh. There r hundreds of sources out there and I m no scholar and u seem to hv read lots of granth.

I'm no drug addict but I love shaheedi degh and meat killed and cooked by Guru ki Fauj and just very curious to know what our 18th century sources hv to say about that.

I never knew there was doubt over the authenticity of gur katha. I didn't understand about the bhattachari thing.

Okay, but in the end, if you start relying on any one person then you're in danger of being manipulated and also not developing your own khoji skills. It may be that I've read loads but someone else who reads the same things might have insights that I overlooked. If I've read loads (with Guru ji's kirpa), its been over decades. I'd push anyone to do the same. Young people today don't know how good they've got it. Many sources are available for free on the Internet, other previously hard to find sources are available in collections (like in Siques, Tigers and Thieves). Important source material has been made available and even translated (like Gursobha) - this wasn't situation when I was younger. Every Sikh should be a scholar. 

Tell me about your experiences with shaheedi degh (without exaggeration or over enthusiasm). If I ever go back to Panjab, I'm definitely going to try it. What recipes are you familiar with (if any)?

 

[shastarSingh]

***Okay, but in the end, if you start relying on any one person then you're in danger of being manipulated and also not developing your own khoji skills. It may be that I've read loads but someone else who reads the same things might have insights that I overlooked. If I've read loads (with Guru ji's kirpa), its been over decades. I'd push anyone to do the same. Young people today don't know how good they've got it***

veerji we have to rely on each other because one person can't become khoji of all fields. One Singh could be expert in sikh history, other in gurbani meanings, other in shastar vidya,someone else in raag vidya. If someone is good in history and has spend lots of time in reading granths, it's his duty to help fellow Singhs and not ask them to read same number of granths

[dallysingh101]

7 minutes ago, shastarSingh said:

***Okay, but in the end, if you start relying on any one person then you're in danger of being manipulated and also not developing your own khoji skills. It may be that I've read loads but someone else who reads the same things might have insights that I overlooked. If I've read loads (with Guru ji's kirpa), its been over decades. I'd push anyone to do the same. Young people today don't know how good they've got it***

veerji we have to rely on each other because one person can't become khoji of all fields. One Singh could be expert in sikh history, other in gurbani meanings, other in shastar vidya,someone else in raag vidya. If someone is good in history and has spend lots of time in reading granths, it's his duty to help fellow Singhs and not ask them to read same number of granths

Nah, bhai ji. It's best to get a balance of as much as you can. 

What you are saying just sounds like laziness i.e. I only want to pursue certain limited avenues instead of exploring my heritage in all of its dimensions. 

WHat you are saying is like a student asking another one to do his homework for him. 

[shastarSingh]

***Tell me about your experiences with shaheedi degh (without exaggeration or over enthusiasm). If I ever go back to Panjab, I'm definitely going to try it. What recipes are you familiar with (if any)?***

the thing with shaheedi degh is u shud know how to use it and not abuse it. Sadly many people are abusing it by putting crazy amount of cannabis leaves in degh.

if u take right doze of shaheedi degh, it's a complete medicine.  I had digestion and constipation problems but shaheedi degh has completely cured that. It helps in simran too as ur focus shifts from outside world to within urself.

No dal panth singh has ever died of cancer. Elderly nihang Singhs who took loads of sugar from karah parchad wali degh all their lives hv no diabetes problem. 

what do u mean by recipes?

[shastarSingh]

34 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Nah, bhai ji. It's best to get a balance of as much as you can. 

What you are saying just sounds like laziness i.e. I only want to pursue certain limited avenues instead of exploring my heritage in all of its dimensions. 

WHat you are saying is like a student asking another one to do his homework for him. 

Veerji then v shud stop listening to katha vachaks. 

Katha vachaks r trained over years and read lots of literature and during their katha they tell us lots of stuff from lots of different sources. 

Sharing one's knowledge with fellow Sikhs is a gud thing and not bad.

[dallysingh101]

2 hours ago, shastarSingh said:

Veerji then v shud stop listening to katha vachaks. 

Katha vachaks r trained over years and read lots of literature and during their katha they tell us lots of stuff from lots of different sources. 

Sharing one's knowledge with fellow Sikhs is a gud thing and not bad.

I'm not a pendu veer ji. 

I NEVER listen to katha vachacks. I try and read what they've read for myself.

I think you have that desi/Indian disease of laziness. 

I share my knowledge. To the extent of translating stuff. I only do this because I hope others will become interested in source materials enough to start examining them themselves.  

Katha vaachaks are mainly for pendus who can't be bothered to read in my opinion. Juts are the main lazy ones who hate reading. Are you one of those?

[IshR]

The sources which support your desire to use drugs and eat meat are corrupted. Throughout the years people have wanted to corrupt, twist and change sikhi for various reasons.

Some are motivated by the wish to create division in the sikh panth or to bring Sikhism under the umbrella of Hinduism. Others are motivated by the need to justify personal desires such as use of meat and drugs.

Such sources are clouded by doubt.

There is one source however which as sikhs we must not doubt....our guru...Siri Guru Granth Sahib who says - 

 

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine.

 

ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
- no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

 

SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI - 1377 
SALOK KABEER JEE BHAGAT KABEER JI

[dallysingh101]

2 hours ago, IshR said:

The sources which support your desire to use drugs and eat meat are corrupted. Throughout the years people have wanted to corrupt, twist and change sikhi for various reasons.

Some are motivated by the wish to create division in the sikh panth or to bring Sikhism under the umbrella of Hinduism. Others are motivated by the need to justify personal desires such as use of meat and drugs.

Such sources are clouded by doubt.

There is one source however which as sikhs we must not doubt....our guru...Siri Guru Granth Sahib who says - 

 

ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine.

 

ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
- no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

 

SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI - 1377 
SALOK KABEER JEE BHAGAT KABEER JI

You can't change historical fact. 

I think someone like yourself would actually detest many of your own warrior ancestors who fought and died to make sure this thing survived. 

I told you before to post that whole shabad so we could read it in context. But you obviously don't want to. 

[shastarSingh]

It has already been discussed