babur opinion on hindustan

[Ranjeet01]

16 minutes ago, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Agra and those areas are central india.

Panjab itself has been heavily influenced by the persians. What with folk tales like laila majnu. Totally persian. And then sufi poetry like bulleh shah also has a bit of islamic influence.

Also babar is first of the mughal rulers. So all the nice architecture like laal killah in delhi etc was notnyet built. The mughals would introduce water gardens etc.

However it is funny coming from Babbar as he was from the nomadic mongol tribes that live in a boring flatlands and tents. With no soil worthy of farming and deserts and freezing cold.

But then again, the mongols ruled in persia for 500 years and thats how they learnt persian and introduced it to india instead of their mongolian language. So i guess he got used to opulence

Parts of Central Asia were originally Persian speaking but the Turkic populations kind of pushed out a lot of these Persian populations or intermingled with them.

[puzzled]

Babur was a descendant of taimur i think?  who was a descendant of gengis khan    taimur also invaded india 

from taimurs dairy, he writes about the hindus slaughtered.  this is basically what our ancestors lived through for 900 yrs 

 

“they said that on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty.

“throughout the camp that every man who has infidel prisoners was to put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 100,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasir-ud-din Umar, a counselor and a man of learning, who, in all his life had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives“.

“In a short space of time all the people in the [Delhi] fort were put to the sword, and in the course of one hour the heads of 10,000 infidels were cut off. The sword of Islam was washed in the blood of the infidels, and all the goods and effects, the treasure and the grain which for many a long year had been stored in the fort became the spoil of my soldiers.

“They set fire to the houses and reduced them to ashes, and they razed the buildings and the fort to the ground….All these infidel Hindus were slain, their women and children, and their property and goods became the spoil of the victors. I proclaimed throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners should put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death.”

 

 

 

[puzzled]

Paintings from the the original baburnama (his dairy)      this is what the original mughals looked like, these are some of the earliest mughal paintings, they look central asian with small eyes and patchy facial hair.    later their looks obviously changed because they married rajput and persian women. 

 

later they married rajput and persian women and looked less central asian. painting of Shajahan    he looks very southasian 

 

aurangzeb

[puzzled]

On 2/6/2020 at 9:25 PM, Not2Cool2Argue said:

Panjab itself has been heavily influenced by the persians. What with folk tales like laila majnu. Totally persian. And then sufi poetry like bulleh shah also has a bit of islamic influence.

true that, iv often thought about it  that there really isn't anything that is authentic punjabi culture.  Punjabi architecture, art, classical music   nothing.   yh there is literature most of which is written by punjabi muslims who were influenced by foreign culture. 

the little punjabi culture that we have is folk culture which was developed in the rural lands, things like dhadi music, tradition textiles like phulkari etc   but thats about it really.

kabadi is south indian even the word kabadi is tamil. 

it makes sense though, us punjabis were suppressed by foreign tyranny for 900 yrs,  our people were slaves for nearly 900s yrs, they were not free and constantly living under fear, generation after generation. they were not able to express themselves, to create culture you need be free and able to express yourself. it explains why culture in rural punjab was aggressive.     

it would be interesting to know about alcohol consumption in punjab during the 900 yrs on invasion. punjabis were a depressed people living under constant fear, i wouldn't be surprised if alcohol was used as a get away during these dark times, this thing with alcohol could go back a very long time.

 

[kds1980]

On 2/7/2020 at 3:15 AM, puzzled said:

Babur was a descendant of taimur i think?  who was a descendant of gengis khan    taimur also invaded india 

from taimurs dairy, he writes about the hindus slaughtered.  this is basically what our ancestors lived through for 900 yrs 

Timur was not descendent of Ghenghis Khan . He just married women which were descendent of Ghenghis Khan . Babur too was descendant of Timur and from mother side his lineage continued to Ghenghis khan

[Not2Cool2Argue]

13 hours ago, puzzled said:

  

it would be interesting to know about alcohol consumption in punjab during the 900 yrs on invasion. punjabis were a depressed people living under constant fear, i wouldn't be surprised if alcohol was used as a get away during these dark times, this thing with alcohol could go back a very long time.

 

Although there was opression. I think its common for ppl near borders to be a mix. Like nepal and all of southeast asia. Look at thailand. They have asian features but with darker skin and their culture is very like indians.

Its funny i can see punjabi culture evolving. Lots of English words are replacing panjabi ones. Our clothes already have collars and more sober colors etc. Ppl teach their kids english

And similarly when mughals were in power lots of Persian culture and language entered our vocab. And ppl made sure to educate their kids in Persian.

Its a good thing. Keeps our ppl within the times and not backwards. 

[puzzled]

14 hours ago, kds1980 said:

Timur was not descendent of Ghenghis Khan . He just married women which were descendent of Ghenghis Khan . Babur too was descendant of Timur and from mother side his lineage continued to Ghenghis khan

yh just checked taimur wasnt related to gengis khan,  but he liked to think that he was recreating the mongol empire.  

[jkvlondon]

18 hours ago, puzzled said:

yh just checked taimur wasnt related to gengis khan,  but he liked to think that he was recreating the mongol empire.  

Timur was born in Uzbekhistan and was related to Genghis through one half of his family and the turks through the other , so yes Babur was also related .

family tree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timurid_dynasty