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Can Sikhs be friendly with Muslims?

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On 5/23/2020 at 10:17 AM, ChardikalaUK said:

The crusaders must be rolling in their graves!

When Christians refer to "turning the other cheek" they weren't only referring to the ones on their face... 😅

Funny isn't it, in the West they're accomodating Islam in their typically ingratiating manner as if their so-called selflessness will be reciprocated, yet in Punjab they're quite pushy and forceful in their efforts to brainwash and convert Sikhs.

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Applies to pretty much any country in the West. An ex-Muslim lays out the truth in a frank and uncompromising manner.

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On 5/23/2020 at 9:40 AM, Premi5 said:

Christians/Germans being friendly. Do they gain in any way?

from bbc website

Ramadan: German church opens doors for Muslim prayers

A church in Berlin has opened its doors to Muslim worshippers unable to fit into their mosque under new social distancing rules.

Germany allowed religious services to resume on 4 May but worshippers must maintain a distance of 1.5m (5ft).

As a result the Dar Assalam mosque in the city's Neukölln district could only hold a fraction of its congregation.

But the Martha Lutheran church in Kreuzberg offered to help by hosting Friday prayers at the end of Ramadan.

Throughout the month of Ramadan, Muslims abstain from eating, drinking, smoking and sex from dawn to dusk. Normally families and friends would gather to break their fast and attend communal prayers, but in Berlin - as in countries across the world - this year's celebrations have been affected.

It is a great sign and it brings joy in Ramadan and joy amid this crisis," the mosque's imam told Reuters news agency. "This pandemic has made us a community. Crises bring people get together."

"It was a strange feeling because of the musical instruments, the pictures," congregation member Samer Hamdoun said, noting the contrast to Islamic worship. 

"But when you look, when you forget the small details. This is the house of God in the end."

Even the church's pastor took part in the service. 

"I gave a speech in German," said Monika Matthias. "And during prayer, I could only say yes, yes, yes, because we have the same concerns and we want to learn from you. And it is beautiful to feel that way about each other."

They probably think the can convert them or behead them.

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

When Christians refer to "turning the other cheek" they weren't only referring to the ones on their face... 😅

Funny isn't it, in the West they're accomodating Islam in their typically ingratiating manner as if their so-called selflessness will be reciprocated, yet in Punjab they're quite pushy and forceful in their efforts to brainwash and convert Sikhs.

There is pecking order with the Abrahamics.

If the west (the powers not the holloi polloi) has a choice between the heathens and a fellow abrahamic, they will pick the abrahamic over the heathens.

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9 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

There are serious problems with church attendance in a lot of parts of Europe. 

They lay largely empty.

Europe is now largely a post-Christian society.

Looks like apne are heading the same way!

Letting suls do namaz in a gurdwara is a total disgrace. 

Our gurdwara was bombed in Afghanistan just 2 months ago. Instead of a revenge attack we let them pray inside our gurdwaras in India. The most emasculated act possible.

Where is the next Banda Singh Bahadur, Baba Deep Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa?

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53 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Looks like apne are heading the same way!

Letting suls do namaz in a gurdwara is a total disgrace. 

Our gurdwara was bombed in Afghanistan just 2 months ago. Instead of a revenge attack we let them pray inside our gurdwaras in India. The most emasculated act possible.

Where is the next Banda Singh Bahadur, Baba Deep Singh and Hari Singh Nalwa?

I am not sure what is wrong with our people.

There are boundaries one does not cross. 

This appeasement is where you hope you get eaten last. This comes from when one feels completely powerless and you are trying to survive. 

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8 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

I am not sure what is wrong with our people.

There are boundaries one does not cross. 

This appeasement is where you hope you get eaten last. This comes from when one feels completely powerless and you are trying to survive. 

Exactly, it's not like the Sikhs of UP and Delhi are living in Kabul or Peshawar. Probably hoping to drum up business for their luggage and rug businesses 😒

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15 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Exactly, it's not like the Sikhs of UP and Delhi are living in Kabul or Peshawar. Probably hoping to drum up business for their luggage and rug businesses 😒

In regards to Delhi Sikhs, it is like the discussion with one of the Delhi Sikhs that posts on here in regards of Sikh women marrying Hindu men in Delhi.

I think with 1984 riots, Delhi Sikhs have been brutalised in a way the Punjab Sikhs have not and it has impacted their psyche.

The ankh is gone and they have been seriously demoralised.

The closest analogy I can probably find is what happened to the psyche of the Japanese people after having two atomic bombs dropped on them, where many of Japs have lost their warrior/samurai spirit. They still have honour in their society but they are lacking something that they lost 75 years ago.

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31 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

In regards to Delhi Sikhs, it is like the discussion with one of the Delhi Sikhs that posts on here in regards of Sikh women marrying Hindu men in Delhi.

I think with 1984 riots, Delhi Sikhs have been brutalised in a way the Punjab Sikhs have not and it has impacted their psyche.

The ankh is gone and they have been seriously demoralised.

The closest analogy I can probably find is what happened to the psyche of the Japanese people after having two atomic bombs dropped on them, where many of Japs have lost their warrior/samurai spirit. They still have honour in their society but they are lacking something that they lost 75 years ago.

I dont think it's just due to 1984 but the love of money that has done this to them.

Maybe the violence of 1947 and the subsequent stories woke up the Punjabi Sikhs.

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"I think with 1984 riots, Delhi Sikhs have been brutalised in a way the Punjab Sikhs have not and it has impacted their psyche.

The ankh is gone and they have been seriously demoralised.

The closest analogy I can probably find is what happened to the psyche of the Japanese people after having two atomic bombs dropped on them, where many of Japs have lost their warrior/samurai spirit. They still have honour in their society but they are lacking something that they lost 75 years ago."

 

Very astute observation. There really is a long term impact on the collective psyche of a people when victim-mentality becomes the default response to external aggression and violence. They cry and shout back, but lack the strength to answer like for like. The fear is further retribution. Essentially, emasculation. Hence, why we must never relinquish the unrelenting warrior spirit blessed by Guru Sahibaan.

 

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IMG-20200524-WA0003.jpg

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The "It's in the past. Move on" sentiment I've heard over the years is a classic symptom of what's being discussed above. I expect to hear it from a Hindu, because they don't want anyone dwelling on their crimes, but to hear it from a Sikh? It's a graphic reminder of how we were defeated; the true defeat, that of the mind.

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7 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

I dont think it's just due to 1984 but the love of money that has done this to them.

Maybe the violence of 1947 and the subsequent stories woke up the Punjabi Sikhs.

Well the Delhi Sikhs are more traders and shopkeepers and UP Sikhs tend to be large landowners (a lot of them come from what is now Pakistan)

They probably feel they have more to lose. They are thinking that if they do doing iftar they are creating goodwill so then the next time there is Muslim/Hindu clash they will be left alone.

The big difference between UP/Delhi Sikhs is they were attacked by Hindus /Muslims and in Punjab post-84 it has been largely Sikh-on-Sikh.

The problem we have is that we place our ideals and values on other communities and think they will act in the same manner we do. 

If someone outside Sikhi does something nice for our Sangat, we are very grateful to them. For example Malerkotla. That area was not touched during partition.

However, do you think the same thing would be replicated the other way around?

Their values are not the same as ours.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Jai Tegang! said:

"I think with 1984 riots, Delhi Sikhs have been brutalised in a way the Punjab Sikhs have not and it has impacted their psyche.

The ankh is gone and they have been seriously demoralised.

The closest analogy I can probably find is what happened to the psyche of the Japanese people after having two atomic bombs dropped on them, where many of Japs have lost their warrior/samurai spirit. They still have honour in their society but they are lacking something that they lost 75 years ago."

 

Very astute observation. There really is a long term impact on the collective psyche of a people when victim-mentality becomes the default response to external aggression and violence. They cry and shout back, but lack the strength to answer like for like. The fear is further retribution. Essentially, emasculation. Hence, why we must never relinquish the unrelenting warrior spirit blessed by Guru Sahibaan.

 

That is what they scares them, further retribution.

But again we are placing our ideals and values on other communities. 

We think because as Sikhs we would have taken matters on our hands that the others would do the same.

The realisation for me that Indira Gandhi was taken out but we are scared to take out the Congress goons who instigated what happened in Delhi. We knew who the culprits were and they should have been taken out. 

The message that would have sent across to all the other goons that they were not safe. 

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