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Allah shows his mercy on Derby Gurudwara by attacking it today

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58 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

My Dad was a victim of caste based politics unfortunately. We're from a Ramgarhia background, he managed to get more marks than his chamaar friend in school but didn't get into Engineering due to 'positive discrimination' but his friend got in.

Every flaana Sikh youth you speak to in that area just wants a go'orment job and complains about the chamaars getting them. Due to this, they all just want to go to Canada, Australia and New Zealand. A lot of their points are valid but these government jobs are a joke, the workers literally just clock in and do nothing. We need more aspirations.

I guess you could say the majority of Punjab is bland, good place to live but not visit. Amritsar and Anandpur Sahib are the two best places to visit by far and that is 100% due to Sikh history. Without Sikhism Punjab would be another bland state like Haryana and Madhya Pradesh.

See people from other regions of Punjab do not understand this, I'm glad you pointed it out!  The "persecuted" Chamars are the dominant group in many places of Doaba. over 40% of the sirpanchs in Doaba are Chamars. All the jobs and benefits are reserved for them because the local governments are full of Chamars and also because they vote for congress. They really are taking advantage of the whole reservation thing.

Every year when its that time of the year again the lanes outside of the Chamar areas are repaired, many of their kids have free education and many other benefits. In my mums pind i went to the Arora area of the pind and the whole thing looked like it was stuck in the 1950s! broken roads, old wooden doors and windows hanging off, run down   just shambles. 

The reservation thing should be for poor families regardless of their caste! My mums friend is a Arora lady who is really poor, her husband had a stroke so he couldn't move, her son ended up in jail for drugs and she made a living by cleaning peoples dishes! but she got absolutely no help or benefits from the government because she belongs to the Arora community and not the Chamar. How does that even make sense! 

I understand many people from the Chamar community need help but there plenty of them that don't! 

its just messed up.

Do you remember when that Ravidassia preacher was shot in Austria?  Well the Chamars from my mums pind all rounded up and blocked the roads in the pind and told the Aroras that they can't open their shops and told Jatts that they can't use the roads to drive their tractors to the fields!  they themselves caused a riot and made a curfew in the pind! Everyone else had to go back home! it lasted a whole week it did. And no police or government arrested them. They behave in such a clannish way!

The jobs should be reserved for the actual communities that are suffering like the valmikis etc But because Chamars are at the top within the Dalit hierarchy, they hog all the jobs and don't give them to other Dalit communities.

Spaces should be reserved for people like the Valmikis and poor families regardless of caste. 

Anyway enough of that 

 

Yeah i really like going Anandpur Sahib, its beautiful there. Gd thing is Anandpur Sahib isn't that far from us only takes around 40mins. Amritsar is a bit fat though

Have you been machiwara? Its only around 20-25 mins from us   you cross the Sutlej and your in Malwa 

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3 minutes ago, puzzled said:

See people from other regions of Punjab do not understand this, I'm glad you pointed it out!  The "persecuted" Chamars are the dominant group in many places of Doaba. over 40% of the sirpanchs in Punjab are Chamars. All the jobs and benefits are reserved for them because the local governments are full of Chamars and also because they vote for congress. They really are taking advantage of the whole reservation thing.

Every year when its that time of the year again the lanes outside of the Chamar areas are repaired, many of their kids have free education and many other benefits. In my mums pind i went to the Arora area of the pind and the whole thing looked like it was stuck in the 1950s! broken roads, old wooden doors and windows hanging off, run down   just shambles. 

The reservation thing should be for poor families regardless of their caste! My mums friend is a Arora lady who is really poor, her husband had a stroke so he couldn't move, her son ended up in jail for drugs and she made a living by cleaning peoples dishes! but she got absolutely no help or benefits from the government because she belongs to the Arora community and not the Chamar. How does that even make sense! 

I understand many people from the Chamar community need help but there plenty of them that don't! 

its just messed up.

Do you remember when that Ravidassia preacher was shot in Austria?  Well the Chamars from my mums pind all rounded up and blocked the roads in the pind and told the Aroras that they can't open their shops and told Jatts that they can't use the roads to drive their tractors to the fields!  they themselves caused a riot and made a curfew in the pind! Everyone else had to go back home! it lasted a whole week it did. And no police or government arrested them. They behave in such a clannish way!

The jobs should be reserved for the actual communities that are suffering like the valmikis etc But because Chamars are at the top within the Dalit hierarchy, they hog all the jobs and don't give them to other Dalit communities.

Spaces should be reserved for people like the Valmikis and poor families regardless of caste. 

Anyway enough of that 

 

Yeah i really like going Anandpur Sahib, its beautiful there. Gd thing is Anandpur Sahib isn't that far from us only takes around 40mins. Amritsar is a bit fat though

Have you been machiwara? Its only around 20-25 mins from us   you cross the Sutlej and your in Malwa 

These are all valid points and I agree fully. You should only get help if you are poor, not because of your so called caste.

Anandpur being near is great but the roads leading there from Nawanshahr are atrocious, they really need to be fixed.

Amristar isn't that far, about 2 hours away but nowadays I prefer Anandpur Sahib, it's so much more peaceful and I like the hilly scenery. 

Amritsar has become a tourist town with massive queues to do matha tek at Harmandir Sahib. You can even bribe sevadars to jump the queue, so shameful. There are lots of tourists from other parts of India who want to visit Harmandir Sahib but only because the 'Jai Hind Vande Matram' Jalianwala Bagh and Wagah border are nearby. It made me laugh seeing these central indians at Wagah border shouting their slogans at the Pakistanis. I was thinking - this isn't your land, you have nothing in common with the people here.

I've never been to Machiwara, 90% of my trips to India were spent in my Dad's pind and then the odd excursion to Amritsar (and the surrounding areas), Anandpur or visiting my nana in Chandigarh (a very bland metro city). I've done one proper trip to Delhi, that was good.

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10 minutes ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Anandpur being near is great but the roads leading there from Nawanshahr are atrocious, they really need to be fixed.

Amristar isn't that far, about 2 hours away but nowadays I prefer Anandpur Sahib, it's so much more peaceful and I like the hilly scenery. 

Amritsar has become a tourist town with massive queues to do matha tek at Harmandir Sahib. You can even bribe sevadars to jump the queue, so shameful. There are lots of tourists from other parts of India who want to visit Harmandir Sahib but only because the 'Jai Hind Vande Matram' Jalianwala Bagh and Wagah border are nearby. It made me laugh seeing these central indians at Wagah border shouting their slogans at the Pakistanis. I was thinking - this isn't your land, you have nothing in common with the people here.

I've never been to Machiwara, 90% of my trips to India were spent in my Dad's pind and then the odd excursion to Amritsar (and the surrounding areas), Anandpur or visiting my nana in Chandigarh (a very bland metro city). I've done one proper trip to Delhi, that was good.

After Gharshankar that road leading to Anandpur Sahib is so bad! the potholes could knock an Elephant over. One of the bumpiest rides iv ever had in my life. Anandpur Sahib being one of the post popular destinations in Punjab it really is surprising how the government does not repair the road. But once your in the city it is soo beautiful, the views are amazing. I can see why Guru Tegh Bahadur ji chose the location to build a city.  Do you see all the monkeys in the way in the mountains lol!  we gave them bread and then all a sudden our can was surrounded by 100s  lmao. Have you been Baba Gurdita Jis Gurdwara near Kesgarh Sahib? really serene as well   its higher up in the mountains.

Yh i really do not like how Amritsar has become a tourist destination. I get that its good for the cities businesses and stuff but at the same time it is our holy city. Last few years iv been going there  Amritsar is full of Indian tourists from other parts of India, there everywhere! taking selfies.

I don't like what they have done to Jallianwala bagh, its a memorial and should be treated like one, instead they have made it into a public garden with people taking selfies and having picnics!  what the hell is that about.

Iv been Wagha border, really didn't get the fuss!  was sh1t. I think Indians from other parts of the country would probably like it more.

If you go again go Machiwara, really nice peaceful Gurdwara. The Khoo Guru Sahib drank water from is still there and also the tree where he tied his horse and wrote the shabd "mitr pyare nu" is still there. Under the tree they have a radio and the shabd plays 24/7. A lot of Nihung Singhs there as well. 

Iv been a few places in India, but iv had those years where we go and just in the pind for the entire month! lol

I'v never been Chandigarh, some say its nice some say theres nothing special. Nothing about it makes me want to visit it though ...

Iv been Delhi, Himachal Pardesh and Hazur Sahib. 1st time we went Hazur Sahib it was in a car lol!  was really fun though.

But i would like to travel all of India, North to South. i want to go Rajasthan as well ... 

 

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4 minutes ago, puzzled said:

After Gharshankar that road leading to Anandpur Sahib is so bad! the potholes could knock an Elephant over. One of the bumpiest rides iv ever had in my life. Anandpur Sahib being one of the post popular destinations in Punjab it really is surprising how the government does not repair the road. But once your in the city it is soo beautiful, the views are amazing. I can see why Guru Tegh Bahadur ji chose the location to build a city.  Do you see all the monkeys in the way in the mountains lol!  we gave them bread and then all a sudden our can was surrounded by 100s  lmao. Have you been Baba Gurdita Jis Gurdwara near Kesgarh Sahib? really serene as well   its higher up in the mountains.

Yh i really do not like how Amritsar has become a tourist destination. I get that its good for the cities businesses and stuff but at the same time it is our holy city. Last few years iv been going there  Amritsar is full of Indian tourists from other parts of India, there everywhere! taking selfies.

I don't like what they have done to Jallianwala bagh, its a memorial and should be treated like one, instead they have made it into a public garden with people taking selfies and having picnics!  what the hell is that about.

Iv been Wagha border, really didn't get the fuss!  was sh1t. I think Indians from other parts of the country would probably like it more.

If you go again go Machiwara, really nice peaceful Gurdwara. The Khoo Guru Sahib drank water from is still there and also the tree where he tied his horse and wrote the shabd "mitr pyare nu" is still there. Under the tree they have a radio and the shabd plays 24/7. A lot of Nihung Singhs there as well. 

Iv been a few places in India, but iv had those years where we go and just in the pind for the entire month! lol

I'v never been Chandigarh, some say its nice some say theres nothing special. Nothing about it makes me want to visit it though ...

Iv been Delhi, Himachal Pardesh and Hazur Sahib. 1st time we went Hazur Sahib it was in a car lol!  was really fun though.

But i would like to travel all of India, North to South. i want to go Rajasthan as well ... 

 

Chandigarh was special to me in the 90s because it had sit down toilets instead of the squat ones lol. 

Unless you have relatives there, there is no point visiting unless you want to go to malls that sell the same things as you get in the west. It is however a nice place to live.

I don't know why Punjabi singers and Punjabi movies big it up so much, it's not a Punjabi city at all, the vast majority of the people are Hindi speakers or ya ya types. It's a miniature Delhi without the history. Since my nana and nana passed away I've got no inclination to ever visit again.

Anandpur Sahib really is different to the rest of Punjab, so much more peaceful, yes I went to Baba Gurdita high up, Kiratpur and also that muslim shrine Buddan Shah where they claim Guru Nanak asked for milk from a sufi saint and said he would come back a hundred years later in a different incarnation (Guru Hargobind) to take the rest. It seems like a made up story to me. I wanted to see the Virasat E Khalsa museum, I remember when it was in the process of being built in 2000 but I never got time to visit it in 2018 when I last went. Did you go there?

I will have to visit Machiwara the next time I am there.

Himachal is beautiful, great scenery and monkeys galore.

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14 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Chandigarh was special to me in the 90s because it had sit down toilets instead of the squat ones lol. 

LOL those squat toilets were the stuff of nightmares!  glad that most places now have normal toilets. I'v got older cousins who have been India when they used to go to the fields with a jug LMAO    glad i wasn't born then       they used to go in groups lol 

14 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Unless you have relatives there, there is no point visiting unless you want to go to malls that sell the same things as you get in the west. It is however a nice place to live.

I don't know why Punjabi singers and Punjabi movies big it up so much, it's not a Punjabi city at all, the vast majority of the people are Hindi speakers or ya ya types. It's a miniature Delhi without the history. Since my nana and nana passed away I've got no inclination to ever visit again.

The guys in Punjab seem to have this strange obsession with females from Chandigarh! people from here who have been Chandigarh told me the females were below average. Apparently they all wear leggings thats enough for men from Punjab to gaga over them! I think because Chandigarh is a planned city, clean and westernized thats why people in Punjab are fascinated by it.  

The ya ya type 😆   My cousin sister went Chandigarh and she said all the females are the ya ya type haha! She told me the same she said most speak Hindi or the ya ya English. 

I used to work with this "Sikh" lady from Chandigarh and she used to say that she isn't from Punjab and that she is from Chandigarh, she was from a Sikh family but spoke Hindi.

Punjabi singers need to stop hyping them up because it looks stupid and it makes the inferior complexity too obvious. 

 

Punjabis need to give up on Chandigarh and focus on getting back the Punjabi speaking areas from Haryana. Do you know Una in Himachal Pradesh is a part of Doaba? it belongs to us. The areas within the Una district that border Punjab are Punjabi speaking areas, they are all mountains but speak Punjabi. Iv been Una a couple of times and they all know how to speak Punjabi in a proper Doabi dialect. Apparently the Doabi dialect has influence from the the neighboring hill areas.  

14 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Anandpur Sahib really is different to the rest of Punjab, so much more peaceful, yes I went to Baba Gurdita high up, Kiratpur and also that muslim shrine Buddan Shah where they claim Guru Nanak asked for milk from a sufi saint and said he would come back a hundred years later in a different incarnation (Guru Hargobind) to take the rest. It seems like a made up story to me. I wanted to see the Virasat E Khalsa museum, I remember when it was in the process of being built in 2000 but I never got time to visit it in 2018 when I last went. Did you go there?

Yeah imo its the best place in Punjab. yh same my family go those places as well when we go Anandpur Sahib, my thia said its a family tradition and our elders used to say its incomplete if we dont visit those other gurdware. 

Yeah the Buddan Shah place isn't exactly a Sikh place! its a grave and then there are those idols of a lion, goat and other animals! i think peer Buddan Shah owned those animals and they stayed with him!  they are buried there as well i think. Do you think its a made up story? im not sure tbh    Then there are those quranic verses on the walls and pics of mecca etc   then theres that thing with the wood burning, toof with smoke coming out!   we got a painting of peer Buddan Shah and his lion with Guru Nanak!    i'm not sure if this story is in any of the puratan janamsakhis or bhai Santokh Singhs works?  

Yh iv been virasat e khalsa twice  its a nice place,  massive. A lot of modern art, light shows etc showing Sikh history from the time of Guru Nanak Dev ji to modern times. The best things were these wax statues of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and puratan Singhs  they were so realistic!   the place is massive!   its all great and stuff but why not spend the same amount of money on actual Sikh heritage that is crumbling and in ruins?   They create these museums and replicate Sikh heritage when you can just spend the money to save the actual crumbling historical places! 

Did you go down the baoli sahib under the qila? once i came back up i collapsed on the floor LMAO 

14 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Himachal is beautiful, great scenery and monkeys galore.

Yh Himachal pradesh is really beautiful, those roads high up on the edge of the mountains are damn scary! the drivers drive so fast, iv seen buses driving right on the edge and there are no barriers!  I wanted to stop the driver and walk outside to look down the edge but i was told to shut up lol    iv been to this place called peer nigaha in Una. Its a muslim tomb. Lots of hindu idols and snake worshiping places within the complex, they also had built like a throne there and apparently Guru Nanak Dev ji visited this place! i doubt that! i think a lot of these muslim dargahs are trying to make money and making stories up that Guru Sahibs visited these places and make money from Sikh sangat!  The place was weird! there was this really big black idol of a deity with its tongue sticking out and riding a black dog. his name is Bhairon and apparently alcoholics donate alcohol to him and they get better ....    yh      

Iv been Baba Balak nath in himachal because my family believe in him. i dnt, but they do. That place had 100s of monkeys lol  bouncing all over the place     saw one turning the tap and drinking water from it lol!  

 

Have you seen that big mosque they are building in Nawanshahr? 

 

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1 hour ago, puzzled said:

LOL those squat toilets were the stuff of nightmares!  glad that most places now have normal toilets. I'v got older cousins who have been India when they used to go to the fields with a jug LMAO    glad i wasn't born then       they used to go in groups lol 

The guys in Punjab seem to have this strange obsession with females from Chandigarh! people from here who have been Chandigarh told me the females were below average. Apparently they all wear leggings thats enough for men from Punjab to gaga over them! I think because Chandigarh is a planned city, clean and westernized thats why people in Punjab are fascinated by it.  

The ya ya type 😆   My cousin sister went Chandigarh and she said all the females are the ya ya type haha! She told me the same she said most speak Hindi or the ya ya English. 

I used to work with this "Sikh" lady from Chandigarh and she used to say that she isn't from Punjab and that she is from Chandigarh, she was from a Sikh family but spoke Hindi.

Punjabi singers need to stop hyping them up because it looks stupid and it makes the inferior complexity too obvious. 

 

Punjabis need to give up on Chandigarh and focus on getting back the Punjabi speaking areas from Haryana. Do you know Una in Himachal Pradesh is a part of Doaba? it belongs to us. The areas within the Una district that border Punjab are Punjabi speaking areas, they are all mountains but speak Punjabi. Iv been Una a couple of times and they all know how to speak Punjabi in a proper Doabi dialect. Apparently the Doabi dialect has influence from the the neighboring hill areas.  

Yeah imo its the best place in Punjab. yh same my family go those places as well when we go Anandpur Sahib, my thia said its a family tradition and our elders used to say its incomplete if we dont visit those other gurdware. 

Yeah the Buddan Shah place isn't exactly a Sikh place! its a grave and then there are those idols of a lion, goat and other animals! i think peer Buddan Shah owned those animals and they stayed with him!  they are buried there as well i think. Do you think its a made up story? im not sure tbh    Then there are those quranic verses on the walls and pics of mecca etc   then theres that thing with the wood burning, toof with smoke coming out!   we got a painting of peer Buddan Shah and his lion with Guru Nanak!    i'm not sure if this story is in any of the puratan janamsakhis or bhai Santokh Singhs works?  

Yh iv been virasat e khalsa twice  its a nice place,  massive. A lot of modern art, light shows etc showing Sikh history from the time of Guru Nanak Dev ji to modern times. The best things were these wax statues of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and puratan Singhs  they were so realistic!   the place is massive!   its all great and stuff but why not spend the same amount of money on actual Sikh heritage that is crumbling and in ruins?   They create these museums and replicate Sikh heritage when you can just spend the money to save the actual crumbling historical places! 

Did you go down the baoli sahib under the qila? once i came back up i collapsed on the floor LMAO 

Yh Himachal pradesh is really beautiful, those roads high up on the edge of the mountains are damn scary! the drivers drive so fast, iv seen buses driving right on the edge and there are no barriers!  I wanted to stop the driver and walk outside to look down the edge but i was told to shut up lol    iv been to this place called peer nigaha in Una. Its a muslim tomb. Lots of hindu idols and snake worshiping places within the complex, they also had built like a throne there and apparently Guru Nanak Dev ji visited this place! i doubt that! i think a lot of these muslim dargahs are trying to make money and making stories up that Guru Sahibs visited these places and make money from Sikh sangat!  The place was weird! there was this really big black idol of a deity with its tongue sticking out and riding a black dog. his name is Bhairon and apparently alcoholics donate alcohol to him and they get better ....    yh      

Iv been Baba Balak nath in himachal because my family believe in him. i dnt, but they do. That place had 100s of monkeys lol  bouncing all over the place     saw one turning the tap and drinking water from it lol!  

 

Have you seen that big mosque they are building in Nawanshahr? 

 

Yep Chandigarh is not a Punjabi place at all. Let's be honest the current Punjab state was created based on Sikh demographics not on linguistic lines, at that time every Sikh said they spoke Punjabi and every Hindu said they spoke Hindi. If there are Hindu majority areas in Himachal and Haryana that speak Punjabi they will still opt to remain in their existing states. Language comes second to religion when it comes to politics.

We're lucky that we got Hindu majority Pathankot in Punjab. Jalandhar and Ludhiana have a huge Hindu majority over us and most of them also prefer Hindi. You will also see Hindi road signs there and all Hindu owned shops will have Hindi writing outside using Devanagari script. If Sikhism ever ended the Punjabi language would go with it. The language battle is still being fought between Sikhs and Hindus in Punjab.

That Sikh lady from Chandigarh is simply a traitor. People say that Punjabi is not as sophisticated as Hindi and Urdu but I think that is a joke. The Hindi belt of India is the most deprived and backwards area of India so I don't know how the language gets so much prestige. Are you telling me a rickshaw driver in UP is speaking some beautiful language?

French and Italian sound softer than English and German but there's no way the English or German people would give up their language for Italiab and French.

The singers and movies need to stop the obsession with Chandigarh, as you said it just makes us look like idiots. The only people who care about Punjabi language and culture are Sikhs.

Baba Balak Nath has lots of Sikh followers in Punjab. Like I said Sikhs in the west are more orthodox than the ones in Punjab, I had never even heard of Balak Nath until I went to Punjab. I guess beliefs in India are more fluid than here..

A mosque in Nawanshahr? That's sad. The thing I really like about visiting Punjab is the almost total absence of muslims but it looks like this is changing.

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I wonder with the opening up of historical gurdwaras in Pakistan and the increasing pilgrimage whether there is some kind of tacit agreement behind the scenes to encourage muslim migration and building mosques.

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2 hours ago, ChardikalaUK said:

Yep Chandigarh is not a Punjabi place at all. Let's be honest the current Punjab state was created based on Sikh demographics not on linguistic lines, at that time every Sikh said they spoke Punjabi and every Hindu said they spoke Hindi. If there are Hindu majority areas in Himachal and Haryana that speak Punjabi they will still opt to remain in their existing states. Language comes second to religion when it comes to politics.

We're lucky that we got Hindu majority Pathankot in Punjab. Jalandhar and Ludhiana have a huge Hindu majority over us and most of them also prefer Hindi. You will also see Hindi road signs there and all Hindu owned shops will have Hindi writing outside using Devanagari script. If Sikhism ever ended the Punjabi language would go with it. The language battle is still being fought between Sikhs and Hindus in Punjab.

That Sikh lady from Chandigarh is simply a traitor. People say that Punjabi is not as sophisticated as Hindi and Urdu but I think that is a joke. The Hindi belt of India is the most deprived and backwards area of India so I don't know how the language gets so much prestige. Are you telling me a rickshaw driver in UP is speaking some beautiful language?

French and Italian sound softer than English and German but there's no way the English or German people would give up their language for Italiab and French.

The singers and movies need to stop the obsession with Chandigarh, as you said it just makes us look like idiots. The only people who care about Punjabi language and culture are Sikhs.

Baba Balak Nath has lots of Sikh followers in Punjab. Like I said Sikhs in the west are more orthodox than the ones in Punjab, I had never even heard of Balak Nath until I went to Punjab. I guess beliefs in India are more fluid than here..

A mosque in Nawanshahr? That's sad. The thing I really like about visiting Punjab is the almost total absence of muslims but it looks like this is changing.

Yh you know the main road that runs through the shahr, one of the roads that goes off from the main road  its on there. When i used to go as a teenager it was small little mosque, when i went around 2 yrs back its now a really big double story building, they were constructing it back then, pretty sure its made now. they even had a halal shop outside. I once was by the mosque when their prayer finished and they were all walking out they were all UP wale speaking Hindi. There were so many! massive crowd walked out. all speaking Hindi.   

One thing though when its the prayer time they dnt have the azaan blaring out on the speaker. Perhaps they are cautious how the locals would react or perhaps they been told not to do it ?  idnno 

As the mosque has been made into a bigger building im guessing none of them are planning to leave any time soon!

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the Interesting thing is that we rarely hear of any hindu temple being attacked by islamist. why would that guy in UK attack a Gurdwara and not a hindu temple. I am sure there a many hindu Temples in UK. In Kashmir the hindu temples might be closed but UK???

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2 hours ago, singhdalbir said:

the Interesting thing is that we rarely hear of any hindu temple being attacked by islamist. why would that guy in UK attack a Gurdwara and not a hindu temple. I am sure there a many hindu Temples in UK. In Kashmir the hindu temples might be closed but UK???

Seems fishy, but then one remembers that these are retarded inbreds, so there's going to be a lack of logic and cohesion in their actions. Anything close by that isn't Islamic and seems remotely connected to India is going to be a target in the minds of these sub-humans.

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True, this is how conspiracy theories start. Why would a Muslim want to attack a Gurdwara when Sikhs have been helping Kashmiris against India? This leaves either that he was insane or because of his religious teachings he acted on them knowing that if he managed to get away with it then Sikhs would doubt that it was a Muslim who did it because that would be so counterproductive to the Kashmiri cause. This allows Muslims to attack Sikhs and Gurdwaras with impunity as they know doubts can be cast as to whether they really did the attack. 

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11 hours ago, proactive said:

True, this is how conspiracy theories start. Why would a Muslim want to attack a Gurdwara when Sikhs have been helping Kashmiris against India? This leaves either that he was insane or because of his religious teachings he acted on them knowing that if he managed to get away with it then Sikhs would doubt that it was a Muslim who did it because that would be so counterproductive to the Kashmiri cause. This allows Muslims to attack Sikhs and Gurdwaras with impunity as they know doubts can be cast as to whether they really did the attack. 

Never trust the media. History has shown Sikhs cannot trust Muslims, but who knows what is really going on here ?

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11 hours ago, proactive said:

True, this is how conspiracy theories start. Why would a Muslim want to attack a Gurdwara when Sikhs have been helping Kashmiris against India? This leaves either that he was insane or because of his religious teachings he acted on them knowing that if he managed to get away with it then Sikhs would doubt that it was a Muslim who did it because that would be so counterproductive to the Kashmiri cause. This allows Muslims to attack Sikhs and Gurdwaras with impunity as they know doubts can be cast as to whether they really did the attack. 

Well...if they are killed or apprehended in the act the doubts will evaporate...

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On 5/26/2020 at 6:41 AM, Khaaik said:

I don't think small acts of kindness like letting them pray at a Gurdwara or sharing food with them can be a threat to dharam (righteousness).

Sharing food as in letting someone eat langar (which has been kirpan bhet) in langar maryada? That is different from setting up separate iftar for them, in the style that they are used to (which is put all the food out, and they take what they want to eat with their own hands).

The food in the Gurdwara is kirpan bhet to Guru Sahib. If a Muslim doesn't want to eat it for that reason, he doesn't have to. He's free to buy food from the grocer. I would absolutely oppose any move to provide food not kirpan bhet to "accomodate" Muslims.

Someone who needed shelter for a night, and we gave it to them at the Gurdwara, is free to pray in his room towards Mecca if he wants to. This is different from allowing the Gurdwara to be turned into a mosque.

I reject the idea that we can be seen as "kind" only if we let them take over the Gurdwara.

On 5/26/2020 at 6:41 AM, Khaaik said:

However, if Sikhs view them ALL with eyes of contempt, is it not against the teachings of Maharaj?

Not indulging in the new trend of doing iftar at Gurdwaras is not "viewing them with contempt." That's like saying if you don't invite your neighbor for dinner and give them Christmas gifts, you're "viewing them with contempt."

On 5/26/2020 at 6:41 AM, Khaaik said:

Since the political situations vary country to country, is it not the right approach that the Sikh community can have conflicting standpoints depending upon which country the sangat is from?

Agreed. But politics is different from Sikh maryada of the Gurdwara. Politics is stuff like what should the income tax rate be or if there should more money spent on roads or on the pensions for government workers? That will vary from country to country.

That is different from holding iftars in Gurdwaras.

On 5/26/2020 at 6:41 AM, Khaaik said:

Please be kind as I'm new and only trying to learn through dialogue.

No problem, your views are welcome.

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