If all Sikhs returned to Punjab and India ?

[Premi5 2,153]

Linked to this thread a little

Just a hypothetical situation/question

If suddenly, there was something going on in the world, and all Sikhs residing outside of India and even parts of India, had no choice but to leave their respective countries (like the ones that have left Afghanistan), and these/we Sikhs had to return to Punjab over a period of only a few months (guessing this would be something like 3 million) - Hwwhat would happen in Punjab?

Would there be enough space for everyone?

How many would be able to return to their native pind/town?

How would this shift the demographics in Punjab in terms of religion ?

Would this strengthen the power of Sikhs in India? Or would hostility increase from central political organisations and Pakistan and China ?

Would the Sikhs from 'bahar' be able to change the economy and culture in Punjab in a significant way if in an idealistic situation, they all settled permanently and comfortably with at least the savings they have  including from selling their properties ?

I am creating this scenario without there being any tensions between the current residents and the 'bahar-wale' 

Furthermore, if we didn't limit the 'bahar-wale' to Punjab, but if they also lived in other parts of North India prior emigrating, e.g. Delhi, Mumbai (Sindhi Sikhs) then how would it change these other places ?

[Suchi 347]

1 hour ago, Premi5 said:

Linked to this thread a little

Just a hypothetical situation/question

If suddenly, there was something going on in the world, and all Sikhs residing outside of India and even parts of India, had no choice but to leave their respective countries (like the ones that have left Afghanistan), and these/we Sikhs had to return to Punjab over a period of only a few months (guessing this would be something like 3 million) - Hwwhat would happen in Punjab?

Would there be enough space for everyone?

How many would be able to return to their native pind/town?

How would this shift the demographics in Punjab in terms of religion ?

Would this strengthen the power of Sikhs in India? Or would hostility increase from central political organisations and Pakistan and China ?

Would the Sikhs from 'bahar' be able to change the economy and culture in Punjab in a significant way if in an idealistic situation, they all settled permanently and comfortably with at least the savings they have  including from selling their properties ?

I am creating this scenario without there being any tensions between the current residents and the 'bahar-wale' 

Furthermore, if we didn't limit the 'bahar-wale' to Punjab, but if they also lived in other parts of North India prior emigrating, e.g. Delhi, Mumbai (Sindhi Sikhs) then how would it change these other places ?

Those having lived abroad for decades would not be able to relate to the Indian residents and would consider themselves as expats or Western. They would end up living in ghettos with other foreign Sikhs. It's already happened with other UK Indians settled in Mumbai. 

However with their Western mindset they may being new ideas of entrepreneurship as the African Indians did in the UK. 

[Premi5 2,153]

@dallysingh101 - you've been to Punjab. What do you think ?

[dallysingh101 4,437]

7 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

@dallysingh101 - you've been to Punjab. What do you think ?

I think a lot of them will be looking at us like this:

 

Plus, it's actually dangerous for some of us. Land squabbles. 

 

 

[Premi5 2,153]

1 minute ago, dallysingh101 said:

I think a lot of them will be looking at us like this:

 

Plus, it's actually dangerous for some of us. Land squabbles. 

 

 

Leaving that aside, say it was a Jew/Holocaust situation. 

I mean in an idealistic world where Sikhs were more united, how much power/influence would they have in Punjab and India and how would India as a whole , react ?

[dallysingh101 4,437]

Just now, Premi5 said:

Leaving that aside, say it was a Jew/Holocaust situation. 

I mean in an idealistic world where Sikhs were more united, how much power/influence would they have in Punjab and India and how would India as a whole , react ?

A best case scenario is that we rejuvenate the place. But I know pinds, they are seriously averse to any change.  So I guess most of us will gravitate towards towns. 

Having worked with many desis over the years, I think that us refugees would have serious problems with finding employment, and that resentment desis have towards vlathees, will be at play for most of us. We'll be the targets for all the 'one upmanship' crap.   I think the cultural differences will make us frustrated.

That being said,  we may cause cultural change to accommodate our tastes and have various cafes and restaurants opening up for instance. Maybe the standard of English would improve as some of us could work as teachers. Some progressive international businesses might hire us for our accents to talk to other companies in other western countries.   I mean I imagine the skill set of Panjab would shoot up dramatically because of it, but I don't know how that crabs in a bucket mentality would affect us?  

[Premi5 2,153]

19 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

A best case scenario is that we rejuvenate the place. But I know pinds, they are seriously averse to any change.  So I guess most of us will gravitate towards towns. 

Having worked with many desis over the years, I think that us refugees would have serious problems with finding employment, and that resentment desis have towards vlathees, will be at play for most of us. We'll be the targets for all the 'one upmanship' crap.   I think the cultural differences will make us frustrated.

That being said,  we may cause cultural change to accommodate our tastes and have various cafes and restaurants opening up for instance. Maybe the standard of English would improve as some of us could work as teachers. Some progressive international businesses might hire us for our accents to talk to other companies in other western countries.   I mean I imagine the skill set of Panjab would shoot up dramatically because of it, but I don't know how that crabs in a bucket mentality would affect us?  

We could go to the cities and make them Sikh majorities...

Yes, good idea, could open English Medium schools with teachers who speak English with English accents.

How many 'jutts' and others from the UK do you think would be open to doing kheti and reduce the reliance on Biharis ?

[dallysingh101 4,437]

1 minute ago, Premi5 said:

 

2 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

How many 'jutts' and others from the UK do you think would be open to doing kheti and reduce the reliance on Biharis ?

 

I don't think the majority of british raised people have the physical strength and mentality to do graft like kheti myself?  But who knows? Plus, we have all the tractors/combine harvesters etc. I think it takes a certain type of personality type to graft it out, outdoors. Plus I wonder how we'd handle the heat in summer? From the sounds of it, many young desi juts seem to be resistant to grafting the farms themselves.  I wonder how outsiders would handle being in rice paddies, or raw soil most of the day? 

BUT....what we might get is less resistance to modern techniques of farming? 

Thinking about it, we'd probably get a wider range of produce being grown to suit our tastes too. Stuff desis don't eat, but we do. 

I'm sure some enterprising brother might cultivate some new strain of cannabis and call it: Panjab OG Kush (or whatever else you crazy youngsters are naming these things these days) and selling that worldwide. lol!!

The big question is whether we could sustain ourselves out there?    

[MisterrSingh 6,535]

I think the harshness of the climate and environment (and the obvious back-breaking work) is something that people can adjust to if they're determined to make a go of it.

What I think most people of our background will struggle with is the chaotic and the corrupt adminstrative system. We complain about things here, which has always struck me as a "first-world problems" type of scenario; sure, things are getting progressively worse in the UK in terms of efficiency and reliability, BUT even the worst of the UK is nowhere near as soul-destroying as things over there.

If you've lived a "soft" life over here, it doesn't matter about your levels of religiosity, you WILL become disillusioned at the state of humanity over there. Getting simple things done over there is like pulling teeth. Enthusiasm for establishing a Khandav Prasth, lmao, will wane into resentment and anger at Indian society. BUT if you go over with your eyes open and you're not existing under the mistaken belief that everything you touch will turn to gold at the first go, then you'll be able to roll with the punches, and start to understand how to get things done within that society. Basically, delusional Western Sikhs with an unrealistic worldview where they haven't experienced the cold touch of hardship, won't survive over there. If, however, you live a boisterous, skin-of-your-teeth, pendu Punjabi lifestyle in the UK, you'll be in heaven, lol.

[Ranjeet01 2,859]

16 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

I think the harshness of the climate and environment (and the obvious back-breaking work) is something that people can adjust to if they're determined to make a go of it.

What I think most people of our background will struggle with is the chaotic and the corrupt adminstrative system. We complain about things here, which has always struck me as a "first-world problems" type of scenario; sure, things are getting progressively worse in the UK in terms of efficiency and reliability, BUT even the worst of the UK is nowhere near as soul-destroying as things over there.

If you've lived a "soft" life over here, it doesn't matter about your levels of religiosity, you WILL become disillusioned at the state of humanity over there. Getting simple things done over there is like pulling teeth. Enthusiasm for establishing a Khandav Prasth, lmao, will wane into resentment and anger at Indian society. BUT if you go over with your eyes open and you're not existing under the mistaken belief that everything you touch will turn to gold at the first go, then you'll be able to roll with the punches, and start to understand how to get things done within that society. Basically, delusional Western Sikhs with an unrealistic worldview where they haven't experienced the cold touch of hardship, won't survive over there. If, however, you live a boisterous, skin-of-your-teeth, pendu Punjabi lifestyle in the UK, you'll be in heaven, lol.

Can people hack with starting from scratch though. 

People are too comfortable to move there.

It would be something drastic to make it a viable option. 

[MisterrSingh 6,535]

25 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Can people hack with starting from scratch though. 

People are too comfortable to move there.

It would be something drastic to make it a viable option. 

If you're of the mind that you're NOT going back and you're definitely going to make things work, i.e. absolute stubborness in a somewhat positive way, you'll have no choice but to stick it out. But how many people are capable of this one-track determination, especially when having to deal with married partners who don't share that same mentality, or when you're trying to placate pampered children who've known nothing but first-world luxury? It's an uphill struggle. That's when you start to separate the bundeh from the bachche, and you realise the extent to which someone's religious belief is genuine and heartfelt that breaches the surface, compared to what they call a "summer patriot" i.e. a person whose temperament and faith is circumstantial and seems to thrive only when times are good.

To answer your question: if our demographic had to go now when things are relatively okay in the West, many wouldn't "feel" the needle of necessity to make things work over there. They'd be like, "Oh well, I'll try my best. If things don't work out I can always go back." If, however, we had to return because, for argument's sake, we were being hunted by alien beings intent on terminating every Sikh in the West, lmao, then you'd find the adrenaline in that situation would carry you into doing things that you'd previously feel were beyond you. There's no going back waving a British passport in that situation. So you try your darndest to make a new life over there. I really do think people are capable of adapting to the harshest of circumstances depending on their mental state of being.

[dallysingh101 4,437]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

If you're of the mind that you're NOT going back and you're definitely going to make things work, i.e. absolute stubborness in a somewhat positive way, you'll have no choice but to stick it out. But how many people are capable of this one-track determination, especially when having to deal with married partners who don't share that same mentality, or when you're trying to placate pampered children who've known nothing but first-world luxury? It's an uphill struggle. That's when you start to separate the bundeh from the bachche, and you realise the extent to which someone's religious belief is genuine and heartfelt that breaches the surface, compared to what they call a "summer patriot" i.e. a person whose temperament and faith is circumstantial and seems to thrive only when times are good.

To answer your question: if our demographic had to go now when things are relatively okay in the West, many wouldn't "feel" the needle of necessity to make things work over there. They'd be like, "Oh well, I'll try my best. If things don't work out I can always go back." If, however, we had to return because, for argument's sake, we were being hunted by alien beings intent on terminating every Sikh in the West, lmao, then you'd find the adrenaline in that situation would carry you into doing things that you'd previously feel were beyond you. There's no going back waving a British passport in that situation. So you try your darndest to make a new life over there. I really do think people are capable of adapting to the harshest of circumstances depending on their mental state of being.

Do you think we'd create a new strata of society there? Or would we just merge into the majority? 

We have certain tastes now, that desis don't. My feeling is that people would also replicate aspects of the country they left, so cafes, pubs, restaurants. I'd imagine even new builds for the 'refugees' might reflect the architecture of where they grew up. 

Can I have guns there? 

If you think about it, in the above hypothetical scene, we'd have hordes of skilled and experienced people over there. From doctors, surgeons, architects, nurses, teachers, various types of engineers. 

Are we talking about an independent Sikh homeland Panjab here? Or the current one in India?

 

[Premi5 2,153]

28 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

 

Can I have guns there? 

Are we talking about an independent Sikh homeland Panjab here? Or the current one in India?

 

Guns - yes, maybe not legally, but many carry them for security

My original post was meant to look at it mainly as 'what would happen' in terms of the dynamics of the Sikh vs rest of India relationship with the relatively stable situation as it is. But, also to see what opinions are as to what would this resettlement of Sikhs would mean  - would Sikhs stand up for their rights more? Would central govt start making moves to keep Sikhs in line ?

[Premi5 2,153]

1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

If, however, you live a boisterous, skin-of-your-teeth, pendu Punjabi lifestyle in the UK, you'll be in heaven, lol.

You'll be in 'heaven ' then ?

 

 

[GurjantGnostic 2,967]

36 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

Guns - yes, maybe not legally, but many carry them for security

My original post was meant to look at it mainly as 'what would happen' in terms of the dynamics of the Sikh vs rest of India relationship with the relatively stable situation as it is. But, also to see what opinions are as to what would this resettlement of Sikhs would mean  - would Sikhs stand up for their rights more? Would central govt start making moves to keep Sikhs in line ?

In india or uk? The gun laws?