Norwalk planned Gurdwara

[Premi5]

@GurjantGnostic @Jacfsing2  @californiasardar1 -thoughts  from the US?

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/New-Norwalk-Sikh-religious-center-faces-opposition-16684412.php

Norwalk Sikh religious center proposal faces opposition

 

Abigail Brone

Dec. 8, 2021Updated: Dec. 8, 2021 2:48 p.m.

 

Comments

 

8

 

 

NORWALK — A new Sikh religious center has been proposed for West Norwalk, and while many have expressed excitement over the thought of a proper place to worship, some residents are concerned the plan doesn’t fit in with the neighborhood.

The application for a 18,000-square-foot gurudwara, a Sikh place of worship, at 283 Richards Ave. was proposed by the Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Foundation in August. A review on the plans was presented to the commission in October. With nearly 100 letters and emails sent to the city regarding the proposal, the project was set for public hearing at Wednesday’s Zoning Commission meeting.

About 60 correspondences were submitted in opposition to the project and about 35 were in favor of the gurudwara, according to city records obtained by Hearst Connecticut Media.

Many of the letters in support of the gurudwara were from Sikh community members. The letters range from recommendations of ways to improve the proposal and change the writer’s opposition, to disgust at the design of the building.

“The building is ugly and does not blend in with the neighborhood,” Fillow Street resident John Loprinzo wrote. “Progress is not always about continuous development, but rather a quality of life for what already exists. I have faith that Planning & Zoning will not allow this insane development. Let’s not disappoint the Norwalk residents.”

People also wrote in from various municipalities and states to voice support and concern over the proposal, with Sikh congregation members from Fairfield and Stamford, among other Fairfield County towns, to ask for the project’s approval.

One Norwalk native wrote from their home in Texas to express disapproval of the proposal near their childhood home, saying other religious centers in the neighborhood fit in better than the proposed gurudwara.

“Based on what I have seen of the proposed plans for the proposed Gurdwara Religious Center, the building would not blend into the neighborhood,” Leslie Breen wrote. “This building would stand out like a glaring sun on a clear summer day.”

Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji is headquartered on West Avenue and has been in the Norwalk community for more than 20 years, according to the application. The West Avenue location is used for community activities and religious services, but the “congregation seeks to provide a place for its members that will enable them to gather for services, fellowship, instruction in the faith and ethics, share customs and traditions and other activities,” according to the application.

While the plot is in a residential zoning area, religious centers are allowed in the area by special permit, said attorney Liz Suchy, who represents the foundation.

“This is not an opportunity for the Sikh congregation, which has been a member of the Norwalk congregation and part of its fabric for nearly 30 years, to enlarge the congregation,” Suchy said. “It is an opportunity for my client to offer a reverent and proper venue for free exercise and practice of their religion.”

The gurudwara would offer weekly Sunday morning services from 11:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m., followed by a vegetarian communal lunch, Suchy said.

The Sikh congregation is comprised of about 185 adult members, but since the COVID-19 pandemic, less than half of the members attend weekly Sunday services, she said.

However, the center plans to be open seven days a week in the same manner of other religious centers, allowing congregants to visit for private prayer.

“The 240-seat capacity in worship centers is appropriate for the number of members the community has,” Suchy said. “Pre-COVID, my client had between 150 and 170 members attending services. Post-COVID, this past Sunday service there was may be 60 in attendance plus children, so that’s generally where the numbers were falling in terms of attendance on Sundays.”

For religious centers in residential areas, one parking space must be provided for every five seats within the center. The seating capacity for the proposed Sikh center is 240, requiring a minimum of 48 parking spaces. The proposal has 53.

On the largest Sikh holiday, which is April 14, the foundation struck a deal with Fox Run Elementary School to use the school’s parking lot for overflow traffic, Suchy said.

The planned structure is 39 feet tall and within the 50-foot maximum height for religious centers in residential areas, Suchy said.

The foundation purchased the 1-acre plot in November 2020 for $275,000, according to city land records.

The proposed building would be three stories, including a finished basement. The first floor is an open space designed to be used as a religious education hall, with removable panels to create separate classrooms, principal engineer on the project Marcos Reinheimer said.

The first floor would also include two bedrooms, one for the live-in guru and another for traveling presenters and guests, Reinheimer said.

One the second floor, the worship center will be located along with some office and storage space. The third floor will be primarily a kitchen space for the weekly meals to be prepared and served, Reinheimer said.

 

 

https://www.nancyonnorwalk.com/norwalk-sikhs-seek-new-home-on-richards-avenue/

Norwalk Sikhs seek new home on Richards Avenue

• ByNancy Guenther Chapman
• 5 : 13 AM ESTOCTOBER 15 2021
• 24 COMMENTS

 

24 comments

David MuccigrossoOctober 15, 2021 at 8:43 am

Wonderful to see so much ignorance on display.

Even with a larger-than-average population of Sikhs in Norwalk and the SW CT/metro area, I can’t understand how anyone can seriously expect this congregation to more than double in size.

And given that they’re already willing to spend millions on this gurudwara, even if they DID double in size, that would give them plenty of revenue to relocate to a larger temple, or even pay to mitigate any traffic/parking issues that arose.

Growth is a non-issue here. And I’d bet that most of these complainers wouldn’t bat an eye at a similar-sized Christian church with explicit growth goals setting its sights on the same lot.

 

Steve MannOctober 15, 2021 at 8:52 am

Good luck folks. Norwalkers need to stand together as one voice. NIMBY apathy to others concerns will get you nowhere. What’s bad for East Norwalk will eventually leach out to Cranbury and then West Norwalk. If you stand alone the administration, the developers and their attorneys will eat you alive.

Norwalk is in the sights of developers and it’s not all bad, but there is plenty of appropriate area to accommodate growth while preserving canopied quiet residential neighborhoods. Speak out against the non-residents who call your concerns “mistruths” by conjuring up their own.

As reported by Nancy here on 10/4, Steve Kleppin said it himself during the East Norwalk village hearing. EN, and Rowayton (watch out!) are not their own communities. They are “part of a broader Norwalk”.

Fight for your neighbors and they may fight for you.

 

John O'NeillOctober 15, 2021 at 9:19 am

Elizabeth Suchy — It should be pointed out when Liz finishes her days changing the Norwalk Landscape she heads back to her 2 acre charming home in Wilton, CT. Yes, that Wilton, CT which has the most stringent and conservative zoning laws in the area, maybe the state.(In my opinion)..Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in all this?? The first thought that comes to mind is open your heart, but just not in my backyard.

Note to City Workers on this: Think before hitting SEND on your email accounts. Your lack of professionalism in Mosque fiasco cost taxpayers millions. Not sure if anyone was actually held accountable on that one. Freaking Disgrace

 

Norwalk LostOctober 15, 2021 at 11:42 am

Has anything been learned since the mosque fiasco? The mayor had given assurances (at that time) that zoning ordinances and land use limitations would be restructured and shored up to protect residential areas . . . why is this even being considered? It clearly doesn’t fit in a residential zone and the petitioners of this application should have known better. Let me guess what’s next, a shakedown lawsuit should this be denied. Shameful this is happening again.

 

David OslerOctober 15, 2021 at 12:26 pm

I am not of their religion but I am all for this project I do have concerns adequate parking working with the other religious institutions on the road to try to stagger their schedules to avoid traffic as well as to the same with the college as far as them building a new place of worship in that area I see it more like the God’s hill area of New Canaan then an issue for the neighborhood I honestly proposal is hugely beneficial to the region and the community and the proper location due to the other religious institutions being in the area my concerns are traffic parking event timing and the flash of the building I think more subdued architecture is warranted but as far as the project of putting their Temple there I’m totally down for it

 

Jim TruOctober 15, 2021 at 2:36 pm

Here we go again…

They already know what is going to happen….

Threaten to sue for religious discrimination, then the city will settle out a large sum of money so they can go buy a larger piece of property more suitable and then have the funds to build.

Working the system to its maximum potential while taxpayers get reamed once again.

 

Steve MannOctober 15, 2021 at 6:32 pm

Proper punctuation allows others to understand ones thoughts. The practice exists for a reason.

 

West NorwalkerOctober 15, 2021 at 7:22 pm

1. What Elizabeth Suchy fails to acknowledge is that the proposed Gurdwara has 56 parking spaces for 200 regular congregants. They drive (by their own admission) 2.5 people per car. Do the math. This is not enough parking even if it does meet the “zoning code”. BUT the zoning code ALSO says parking lots are based on max capacity of the structure. They can fit plus 300 people alone in the worship hall. (This is a conservative estimate.)They are woefully short of parking. This is not about religion. It’s about the residents and quality of life of people who live at west Norwalk. Elizabeth Suchy should properly read the zoning regs.

2. Fox run school is not available on weekdays or while other events are in session. Where are these people supposed to park when they have festivals? Most of their holidays are on weekdays. A patch article from 2011 has their own members saying their events attract up to 500 people. The city and Steve Kleppin must answer where these people will park.

3. Zoning for west Norwalk is AAA residential. It specially says that it’s intended for “low density”. The city has acknowledged in a memo on 10/6 that the proposed structure is consistent with residential D zoning. This proposed structure is not similar in density to temple shalom, the congregation church , or St. Matthew’s. They have much larger lots.

4. Finally, the Sikh Gurdwara approached neighbors on both sides of the lot asking purchase their properties. Why ask to purchase 100+ year homes unless you think you’re current lot will be too small for your needs? A narrative of this is available on the West Norwalk Associations meeting minutes.

The city of Norwalk and planning and zoning has once again failed to protect residents. This isn’t about religion. This is about poor land management, shoddy zoning laws, and bad citing planning. On day 1, the Sikh Gurdwara will not have enough parking. Town hall has failed the residents and working families in West Norwalk.

 

Patrick CooperOctober 15, 2021 at 8:11 pm

Liz Suchy – of course. This comment is not about the issue above – but – the root cause.

Campaign promise 2013 – Harry Rilling: “I will clean up planning and zoning”

In 2014, as mayor – he concluded the messy negotiations over the controversial proposed Al Madany Mosque with a settlement that Norwalk taxpayers funded.

What is worth reviewing – and what is relevant to this article – is the begging – request – pleading by the constituents – and the promise of the candidate turned mayor – that he would fix this.

https://www.wshu.org/post/norwalk-settles-mosque-dispute-more-2m-payout#stream/0

To quote Kimberly Grimm – “And what I would aks you, Mr. (Harry Rilling) Mayor, going forward, for you to do something about it and for you to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

He didn’t. Ask him – why? What changed his mind?

Norwalk, you need some help. You need checks and balances on the council – you need representation that will implement the wishes of the residents. Please – please – vote this November 2nd.

 

DAVENDRA[Dave] ANANDOctober 16, 2021 at 7:26 am

I understand the Concerns of Norwalk Residents and Neighbors. Humbly – I suggest that the extreme stats being referenced are not valid.

Last Line of Sikh Daily Prayer: “TEYRAY BHAANAY SARBAT DAA BHALLAA” – BY YOUR MERCY WAHE GURU[God/Lord/Providence/Almighty/Bhagwaan/Allah/Yahweh/Jehovah, —], LET EVERY HUMAN STAY WELL & BE PROSPEROUS !

!!!!!! Daily say – TEYRAY BHAANAY SARBAT DAA BHALLAA – and you will expel all your worries away !!!!!!

I have been in the USA for over 54 years and lived in all 4 corners of this Great Country and tasted its VALUES first hand. In North Carolina – a Church gave free land at back of the Church to local Sikhs to build their Gurdwara. In San Jose, the Town/Mayor gave over 15 Acres for $1 for local Sikhs to build their Gurdwara. Those and other similar Charity projects are flourishing and have added Goodness and Values to their neighborhoods that Americans Cherish !

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I am a Writer – below my FINAL Column:

INDIA NewEngland

Issue Date: August 2014, Posted On: 8/19/2014

Opinion: Why America and Americans are Exceptional?

By Dave Anand

In September of 2013, President Barack Obama claimed while addressing the United Nations that America and Americans are exceptional because of certain, special traits. Russian President Vladimir Putin and other World leaders laughed and questioned the validity of that claim. The best way to settle such an issue is to lay the facts and let them speak by themselves.

On July 4, 1876, America’s 100th birthday – Lawyer, Preeminent Agnostic, and The Great Orator Robert Ingersoll, articulated thus:

• One hundred years ago, our fathers retired the Gods from politics; The Declaration of Independence is the grandest, the bravest, and the profoundest political document that was ever signed by the representatives of a people. It is the embodiment of physical and moral courage and of political wisdom.

• For the first time in the history of the world, the representatives of a nation, the representatives of a real, living, breathing, hoping people, declared that all men are created equal. With one blow, with one stroke of the pen, they struck down all the cruel, heartless barriers that aristocracy, that priest-craft, that king-craft had raised between man and man. They struck down with one immortal blow that infamous spirit of caste that makes a God almost a beast, and a beast almost a god. With one word, with one blow, they wiped away and utterly destroyed all that had been done by centuries of war – centuries of hypocrisy – centuries of injustice.

• Our fathers founded the first secular government that was ever founded in this world. Recollect that. The first secular government; the first government that said every church has exactly the same rights, and no more; every religion has the same rights, and no more. In other words, our fathers were the first men who had the sense, who had the genius, to know that no church should be allowed to have a sword; that it should be allowed only to exert its moral influence.

• The rights of all are equal: justice, poised and balanced in eternal calm, will shake from the golden scales in which are weighed the acts of men, the very dust of prejudice and caste: No race, no color, no previous condition, can change the rights of men.

That political wisdom of the founders as captured in America’s Constitution has proven itself million and million times over and come true by creating a “True civilization in which every man gives to every other every right that he claims for himself.” Earlier, the British, Roman, and the Greek empires were self-centered and did not afford the same rights to every other citizen of the republic as we Americans do. This self-centeredness with a closed system in fact resulted in the demise of those powers; one reason experts believe America’s Open-System policies will prolong its Superpower status.

So, why is America Exceptional?

Like other great powers, America too created its own remarkable history. Unlike other powers whose main aim was subjugation and exploitation of weaker peoples and their riches – America’s founding was to do more with freedom. Liberty, as in the Statue of Liberty, is America’s foremost mantra.

Custodians of Freedom and champions of Democracy ever since they established theirs back in 1776 – Americans liberated themselves by defeating the British forces in the 1700s and in due course of time they freed the Slaves in 1863, under the president-ship of Abraham Lincoln. They freed Europe from German (Hitler) Forces in 1945 and since then have assumed the mantle of World-Peace.

The emancipation of the blacks by the steadfast Abraham Lincoln puts him in a unique freedom fighter category. Freedom fighters like Mahatma Gandhi used his own kind (Indians) to fight the other kind (British) to win freedom for his own kind (Indians). Who would not die for freeing their brethren and countrymen from extreme atrocities showered by a foreign power?

On the other hand – Lincoln used mostly all whites’ forces or the so-called Yankees of the North to defeat the Southern whites (aka Confederacy) in the brutal American Civil War to free the black slaves. It is estimated close to 617,000 white Americans died in the ruthless civil war to end slavery. This is the single most reason based upon which I would rank Abraham Lincoln over Gandhi as the number one freedom fighter of all times, leaving aside the direct messengers of God like Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, Guru Nanak, and so on.

In the same spirit and now for almost a century – The United States has been successful in establishing World-Peace by shedding its own blood abundantly and giving away their fortune. With the exception of minor hot spots in the Middle-East (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Israel-Palestinian battles, ISIS, etc.) or Iran/North Korea Nuclear standoff, Ukraine, etc. – there is nothing that compares or rises to the dire times of World War-II. The peace lid has been shut tight so far.

Exceptionalism of America and Americans is rooted in several principles and policies, and not just limited to the following:

– Foremost, Americans are Freedom lovers and will die for it as no other.
– Americans fight for Justice, Law and Equality for all
– They are the most charitable as a People and Country (Ranked #1 by Charity Aid Foundation)*
– Are most inclusive with an Open-System to embrace everyone legally possible.
– Have most Freedom to pursue any Religion; Freedom to pursue Happiness
– Have most Freedom for Businesses and Markets (Laissez-faire)
– the List is rather long to mention them all here ——–

No wonder people call America, The God’s Country!

With God’s blessings and wisdom of principles and policies America’s founders adopted – all of that gave rise to Economic/Military/Political/Diplomatic/Technology/Financial dominance and success of unimaginable proportions to make it the one and only Superpower now for over fifty years.

The euphoria of success did inject some insolence into the country; we earned the epithet of “Ugly American” in the mid-1900. I would venture to say that that ugliness renders Americans even more notable and special. What is remarkable is after all that huge success – the ugly Americans kept their System open for everyone and did not shut the doors like the Britishers/Romans/Greeks did when success hit them in the head.

For some time now, the media has been abuzz with predictions of America fading away and China replacing it as the next Superpower. That is just the buzz; the fact is other countries, including the Dragon, are simply catching up because of our munificence in sharing the hard-earned riches and creative technologies/inventions with everyone.

This same exceptionalism will not allow the hardworking and creative Americans to subjugate themselves to any power or the new Superpower; they will die before that happens! America and Americans, by example of an extremely successful political and economic experiment, have proven beyond doubt that they are truly exceptional.

Is there any other way to define this term [Exceptional]?

Dave Anand (danand55@gmail.com), a technologist, has written and published two books: “People Super Highway, the Mystique & Quest of Soul” and “The Verses.”

*2011 World Giving Index: US Ranked Most Charitable Country on Earth: The United States climbed from fifth place to the rank of most generous country in the world, according to the Charity Aid Foundation. The United Kingdom is the eighth most charitable nation in the world while the world’s fastest growing major economies – China and India – rank among the least altruistic. India stood at 134th position and China at 147th with Chinese people among the least likely on the planet to volunteer; only 4% said they would. The U.S. has increased its charity by 3 percentage points in this year, up to $212 billion.
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John O'NeillOctober 16, 2021 at 7:52 am

As a West Norwalker I’d like to know why Tom Livingston and Lisa Shanahan failed to alert area residents to this proposal. If NON didn’t run this story we never would’ve known..I thought they were supposed to be representing us? Maybe they’re proponents of the project? I’d like to get quotes from them for this story…In theory District E zoning issues should come before planting trees for these council members.

 

CT-PatriotOctober 17, 2021 at 5:32 am

Why place it in AAA residential zoning area? Looks like this was a set-up as before and we as taxpayers are about to get soaked again.

I’m all for freedom of religion and they should have the ability to build a structure as big as they choose on land that can accommodate the structure in the proper zoning area.

However, Richards Avenue does have other houses of worship and this seemed logical for their establishment seeing the others on the same street.

Unless the council work together with zoning to possibly change just that exact location for other than AAA residential, I believe things will once again get heated and everyone in Norwalk will loose.

I hope this can be solved without things get out of hand.

 

Nora KingOctober 17, 2021 at 9:43 am

Harry Rilling promised to change zoning eight years ago so this would never happen again. He looked me directly in the eye as well when I was on zoning and made me that promise. Why was the zoning not changed?

 

PeterOctober 17, 2021 at 2:13 pm

We need to get Rilling out now. Do it Norwalk.

 

Tysen CanevariOctober 17, 2021 at 5:15 pm

@Nora you have to talk to the chief of staff to get things done. Harry just accepts donations.

 

SteveOctober 17, 2021 at 5:46 pm

Republican legislators made special provisions to give religious organizations special treatment under the law. This makes it very difficult for municipalities to limit them. Many who are complaining here are of the same Ilk. They have reaped what they have sown

 

Missy ConradOctober 17, 2021 at 6:22 pm

Hello, Everyone! Have you ever been at the Sikh Temple in the former Union Bank on West Avenue, where it is still located? When we had an active Clergy Association of all denominations here in Norwalk, many of us were invited to the Temple. I was the Quaker representative. We Quakers were (not)known locally by our official name on our checks written for donations: “Wilton Monthly Meeting,” which is meaningless to most people; finally we changed to “Wilton Quaker Meeting,” which is still misleading, since Quakers come from all over & name our Meeting Houses geographically. A Quaker Meeting House is not in the village, but at a cross road, as is explained by guides at Sturbridge Village.
My husband Jeff & I grew up in Pelham, NY, down the RR Line. After living many places, we took the advice of an older fellow employee at Doubleday Publishing & came up to Norwalk in October, 1971. With help from our aunt & uncle, we bought a little house with a barn. We read The Norwalk Hour & learned about opportunities. Tish Gibbs needed a place to store newspapers that had been picked up by volunteers on Saturday but had to wait until Monday to be brought to the scrap dealer, which used to be next to the Norwalk Transfer Station. And, I, who earlier in Hell’s Kitchen, NYC, had campaigned for Jeff while five months pregnant & ended up filling his position in President Lyndon B. Johnson’s Great Society Program & working with the Central Park Conservancy to re-do the 46th Street Park depicted in West Side Story, attended Norwalk’s Parks & Recreation Commission, since disbanded. With our little daughter Grace at home, I volunteered to babysit the children of the Board of the League of Women Voters once a month. Once I had seven boys & one girl who, though young, all had Spring Fever! Afterwards, I was given a gift membership to the League of Women Voters of Norwalk. That is where I met my best friend, Louise Golub, with whom I worked on environmental & social issues, such as housing & city planning & financing. Also, as a follower of Jesus & mentored by the Rev Dr Martin Luther & Coretta Scott King, thus a Pacifist, I advocate cutting our military spending, as does the US Conference of Mayors, & reallocating the $ to human needs.
The City of Norwalk can lower the property taxes of people who own near a building such as this Temple. I am in favor of this plan.

 

Michael Allan TorreOctober 18, 2021 at 9:41 am

Traditional American life and values are undergoing change and upheaval from internal and external forces without resistance to the changes or support for traditional American values.

 

Joanna CooperOctober 18, 2021 at 2:33 pm

The message residents should take away here is that this administration doesn’t provide protection to home owners. They are proposing a monstrous structure in a triple A zoned neighborhood. If they can do it there they can do it anywhere.
We are being sold out to developers by our mayor and the one party common council. Clearly they don’t learn from their mistakes and they ignore the rights and pleas of residents. Time to clean house Election Day.

 

SteveOctober 19, 2021 at 9:47 pm

Not sure where Michael Allan Torre is going here but it has the sound of xenophobia . Our strength comes from our diversity, tolerance and pull up by the bootstraps mentality, that includes different forms of spirituality.

 

Concerned NeighborNovember 12, 2021 at 8:06 pm

The initial permit application filed on 8/9 clearly states in its first three paragraphs, that this structure will be serving their congregants from the entirety of Fairfield County CT, as well as Westchester County, NY. Exactly how many of those current congregants are actually tax paying residents or even business owners in the city of Norwalk? All the existing religious facilities in the area being used as a precedent by the applicant in this case have one glaring difference from this proposed facility. They each serve congregations primarily composed of local Norwalk residents.
That point seems to be one that no one is willing to broach in this process, but is perhaps one of the most important to be considered.
Why are we considering allowing a magnet religious center that serves multiple counties across two states, to be built in a residentially zoned neighborhood, on a comically small parcel of land for the massive size of the structure, that cannot possibly work in the long term for everyone involved?

I fully understand that from the applicants perspective they were able to purchase the land for a mere fraction of its comparative cost if it were located in an appropriate commercial zone. But what is, or will be in the future, their actual contribution to our local community? What is their actual skin in the proverbial game after this facility is built? Plain and simple, this is a multi-state regional facility, to be built in a residential neighborhood that does not have the infrastructure to adequately support it in the long term no matter what kind of spin is applied to it now during the permitting process.

The foundation excavation alone for this structure will consume around 1/3 of the 1 acre parcel including the minimal safe over-dig and stock-piling areas required by the process. Plus the massive drainage galleries and septic system excavations to follow that will consume virtually all undisturbed ground remaining within the allowed property setbacks afterwards. There will be a steady stream of heavy equipment, triaxles hauling in/out, and intermittent concrete trucks lined up on Richards avenue completely blocking a lane of the road several days a week for at least the first 6 months of the project. As they will have almost no room whatsoever to effectively manage the daily site-work logistics involved while also providing minimal parking for the dozens of men actually performing the work each day onsite.
That means about 10 vehicles to/from the school or from Fillow making that left turn will be forced to sit and wait past the stop sign on Richards until flagged through. Or traffic will be detoured down Fillow and through Geneva to get around the construction area and back to Richards. They love making hypothetical Traffic Impact surveys about presumed circumstances when the project is actually completed in several years. The truth is that this build will shut down half of Richards Avenue intermittently on almost a daily basis for months. Leaving a constant daily trail of mud and site debris trailing away from the jobsite each and every day no matter how many gravel “track pads”, their engineers indicate be installed on the plans to appease the Building Department in pre-con submittals. That much is not hypothetical and is a certainty.

After at least 18 months of that when the new facility is substantially completed to the point it can be occupied as the remaining work continues outside, that constant influx of construction traffic will be immediately augmented by and then replaced by out of town congregants entering and leaving the building to and from I95 and the Merrit.

That is exactly what we are signing up for here folks. As a homeowner living in the immediate area, I feel it necessary to question why this enormous Regional Magnet Facility is likely going to be built in our residentially zoned neighborhood, and what its ties are to the actual Norwalk community and its tax rolls per congregant that this facility truly has, before accepting the ongoing daily inconveniences and certain negative impact on my personal property value that it will surely incur in perpetuity thereafter. The fact they got a really great deal on a small derelict property outside an expensive commercial zone to greatly expand their current facilities which serve the greater metro NY area, isn’t making me feel better about it here in West Norwalk down the street.

 

CT-PatriotNovember 13, 2021 at 10:13 am

Seems a deep dive into the entire aspect of zoning, property, construction, traffic, etc.

@Concerned points out more in depth details that seem lacking in both news articles but also from government on full disclosure.

From all things considered, before things get out of hand as it did prior, it may be more prudent to find a much larger parcel of land in an area that can better service their build-out/construction, but their congregation as well at the same price or maybe less.

Unless there is a more suitable but larger parcel in an area that can handle all the above, I believe once again this will end up in court then all residents will again be paying off legal fees and settlement.

The more you think about this, the more you have to believe this was put in motion to fail from the beginning and to get a windfall of cash in the end by Norwalk taxpayers.

 

Kelly A.November 28, 2021 at 11:05 am

The quietness of our neighborhood is threatened more by leaf blowers than this institution.

 

Concerned NeighborNovember 29, 2021 at 8:28 pm

@CT Patriot raises a great point in stating that this will very likely not end reasonably for anyone involved. Once this permit has been issued, it cannot be simply rescinded when the first dozen formal complaints are filed immediately after the project begins and its impacts become a daily reality for the local community.
Rendering that aforementioned point to be moot, the applicant has already made a presumably quite substantial capital investment in the property and its design/application processes to date. They will surely not back down at this point and effectively agree to just waste those significant investments made in earnest without fairly seeking compensation for their losses should the project not be permitted to move forwards into the actual construction phase.

The big picture that was wisely alluded to above is that the city of Norwalk has already allowed the process to proceed this far for the applicant, and their financial investments are now very real and have been made in earnest on their part… So basically, this matter can now ultimately only end in a future lawsuit one way or another and we will all be paying for it, again. The permit is rejected, the city invariably gets sued for several million dollars and has to settle it. The Permit is granted, and local residents begin suing for damages and it goes nowhere fruitful. It cannot be put back in the proverbial box now.

[GurjantGnostic]

25 minutes ago, Premi5 said:

@GurjantGnostic @Jacfsing2  @californiasardar1 -thoughts  from the US?

https://www.thehour.com/news/article/New-Norwalk-Sikh-religious-center-faces-opposition-16684412.php

Norwalk Sikh religious center proposal faces opposition

 

Abigail Brone

Dec. 8, 2021Updated: Dec. 8, 2021 2:48 p.m.

 

Comments

 

8

 

 

NORWALK — A new Sikh religious center has been proposed for West Norwalk, and while many have expressed excitement over the thought of a proper place to worship, some residents are concerned the plan doesn’t fit in with the neighborhood.

The application for a 18,000-square-foot gurudwara, a Sikh place of worship, at 283 Richards Ave. was proposed by the Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji Foundation in August. A review on the plans was presented to the commission in October. With nearly 100 letters and emails sent to the city regarding the proposal, the project was set for public hearing at Wednesday’s Zoning Commission meeting.

About 60 correspondences were submitted in opposition to the project and about 35 were in favor of the gurudwara, according to city records obtained by Hearst Connecticut Media.

Many of the letters in support of the gurudwara were from Sikh community members. The letters range from recommendations of ways to improve the proposal and change the writer’s opposition, to disgust at the design of the building.

“The building is ugly and does not blend in with the neighborhood,” Fillow Street resident John Loprinzo wrote. “Progress is not always about continuous development, but rather a quality of life for what already exists. I have faith that Planning & Zoning will not allow this insane development. Let’s not disappoint the Norwalk residents.”

People also wrote in from various municipalities and states to voice support and concern over the proposal, with Sikh congregation members from Fairfield and Stamford, among other Fairfield County towns, to ask for the project’s approval.

One Norwalk native wrote from their home in Texas to express disapproval of the proposal near their childhood home, saying other religious centers in the neighborhood fit in better than the proposed gurudwara.

“Based on what I have seen of the proposed plans for the proposed Gurdwara Religious Center, the building would not blend into the neighborhood,” Leslie Breen wrote. “This building would stand out like a glaring sun on a clear summer day.”

Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji is headquartered on West Avenue and has been in the Norwalk community for more than 20 years, according to the application. The West Avenue location is used for community activities and religious services, but the “congregation seeks to provide a place for its members that will enable them to gather for services, fellowship, instruction in the faith and ethics, share customs and traditions and other activities,” according to the application.

While the plot is in a residential zoning area, religious centers are allowed in the area by special permit, said attorney Liz Suchy, who represents the foundation.

“This is not an opportunity for the Sikh congregation, which has been a member of the Norwalk congregation and part of its fabric for nearly 30 years, to enlarge the congregation,” Suchy said. “It is an opportunity for my client to offer a reverent and proper venue for free exercise and practice of their religion.”

The gurudwara would offer weekly Sunday morning services from 11:30 a.m. to 12:30 p.m., followed by a vegetarian communal lunch, Suchy said.

The Sikh congregation is comprised of about 185 adult members, but since the COVID-19 pandemic, less than half of the members attend weekly Sunday services, she said.

However, the center plans to be open seven days a week in the same manner of other religious centers, allowing congregants to visit for private prayer.

“The 240-seat capacity in worship centers is appropriate for the number of members the community has,” Suchy said. “Pre-COVID, my client had between 150 and 170 members attending services. Post-COVID, this past Sunday service there was may be 60 in attendance plus children, so that’s generally where the numbers were falling in terms of attendance on Sundays.”

For religious centers in residential areas, one parking space must be provided for every five seats within the center. The seating capacity for the proposed Sikh center is 240, requiring a minimum of 48 parking spaces. The proposal has 53.

On the largest Sikh holiday, which is April 14, the foundation struck a deal with Fox Run Elementary School to use the school’s parking lot for overflow traffic, Suchy said.

The planned structure is 39 feet tall and within the 50-foot maximum height for religious centers in residential areas, Suchy said.

The foundation purchased the 1-acre plot in November 2020 for $275,000, according to city land records.

The proposed building would be three stories, including a finished basement. The first floor is an open space designed to be used as a religious education hall, with removable panels to create separate classrooms, principal engineer on the project Marcos Reinheimer said.

The first floor would also include two bedrooms, one for the live-in guru and another for traveling presenters and guests, Reinheimer said.

One the second floor, the worship center will be located along with some office and storage space. The third floor will be primarily a kitchen space for the weekly meals to be prepared and served, Reinheimer said.

 

 

https://www.nancyonnorwalk.com/norwalk-sikhs-seek-new-home-on-richards-avenue/

Norwalk Sikhs seek new home on Richards Avenue

• ByNancy Guenther Chapman
• 5 : 13 AM ESTOCTOBER 15 2021
• 24 COMMENTS

 

24 comments

David MuccigrossoOctober 15, 2021 at 8:43 am

Wonderful to see so much ignorance on display.

Even with a larger-than-average population of Sikhs in Norwalk and the SW CT/metro area, I can’t understand how anyone can seriously expect this congregation to more than double in size.

And given that they’re already willing to spend millions on this gurudwara, even if they DID double in size, that would give them plenty of revenue to relocate to a larger temple, or even pay to mitigate any traffic/parking issues that arose.

Growth is a non-issue here. And I’d bet that most of these complainers wouldn’t bat an eye at a similar-sized Christian church with explicit growth goals setting its sights on the same lot.

 

Steve MannOctober 15, 2021 at 8:52 am

Good luck folks. Norwalkers need to stand together as one voice. NIMBY apathy to others concerns will get you nowhere. What’s bad for East Norwalk will eventually leach out to Cranbury and then West Norwalk. If you stand alone the administration, the developers and their attorneys will eat you alive.

Norwalk is in the sights of developers and it’s not all bad, but there is plenty of appropriate area to accommodate growth while preserving canopied quiet residential neighborhoods. Speak out against the non-residents who call your concerns “mistruths” by conjuring up their own.

As reported by Nancy here on 10/4, Steve Kleppin said it himself during the East Norwalk village hearing. EN, and Rowayton (watch out!) are not their own communities. They are “part of a broader Norwalk”.

Fight for your neighbors and they may fight for you.

 

John O'NeillOctober 15, 2021 at 9:19 am

Elizabeth Suchy — It should be pointed out when Liz finishes her days changing the Norwalk Landscape she heads back to her 2 acre charming home in Wilton, CT. Yes, that Wilton, CT which has the most stringent and conservative zoning laws in the area, maybe the state.(In my opinion)..Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in all this?? The first thought that comes to mind is open your heart, but just not in my backyard.

Note to City Workers on this: Think before hitting SEND on your email accounts. Your lack of professionalism in Mosque fiasco cost taxpayers millions. Not sure if anyone was actually held accountable on that one. Freaking Disgrace

 

Norwalk LostOctober 15, 2021 at 11:42 am

Has anything been learned since the mosque fiasco? The mayor had given assurances (at that time) that zoning ordinances and land use limitations would be restructured and shored up to protect residential areas . . . why is this even being considered? It clearly doesn’t fit in a residential zone and the petitioners of this application should have known better. Let me guess what’s next, a shakedown lawsuit should this be denied. Shameful this is happening again.

 

David OslerOctober 15, 2021 at 12:26 pm

I am not of their religion but I am all for this project I do have concerns adequate parking working with the other religious institutions on the road to try to stagger their schedules to avoid traffic as well as to the same with the college as far as them building a new place of worship in that area I see it more like the God’s hill area of New Canaan then an issue for the neighborhood I honestly proposal is hugely beneficial to the region and the community and the proper location due to the other religious institutions being in the area my concerns are traffic parking event timing and the flash of the building I think more subdued architecture is warranted but as far as the project of putting their Temple there I’m totally down for it

 

Jim TruOctober 15, 2021 at 2:36 pm

Here we go again…

They already know what is going to happen….

Threaten to sue for religious discrimination, then the city will settle out a large sum of money so they can go buy a larger piece of property more suitable and then have the funds to build.

Working the system to its maximum potential while taxpayers get reamed once again.

 

Steve MannOctober 15, 2021 at 6:32 pm

Proper punctuation allows others to understand ones thoughts. The practice exists for a reason.

 

West NorwalkerOctober 15, 2021 at 7:22 pm

1. What Elizabeth Suchy fails to acknowledge is that the proposed Gurdwara has 56 parking spaces for 200 regular congregants. They drive (by their own admission) 2.5 people per car. Do the math. This is not enough parking even if it does meet the “zoning code”. BUT the zoning code ALSO says parking lots are based on max capacity of the structure. They can fit plus 300 people alone in the worship hall. (This is a conservative estimate.)They are woefully short of parking. This is not about religion. It’s about the residents and quality of life of people who live at west Norwalk. Elizabeth Suchy should properly read the zoning regs.

2. Fox run school is not available on weekdays or while other events are in session. Where are these people supposed to park when they have festivals? Most of their holidays are on weekdays. A patch article from 2011 has their own members saying their events attract up to 500 people. The city and Steve Kleppin must answer where these people will park.

3. Zoning for west Norwalk is AAA residential. It specially says that it’s intended for “low density”. The city has acknowledged in a memo on 10/6 that the proposed structure is consistent with residential D zoning. This proposed structure is not similar in density to temple shalom, the congregation church , or St. Matthew’s. They have much larger lots.

4. Finally, the Sikh Gurdwara approached neighbors on both sides of the lot asking purchase their properties. Why ask to purchase 100+ year homes unless you think you’re current lot will be too small for your needs? A narrative of this is available on the West Norwalk Associations meeting minutes.

The city of Norwalk and planning and zoning has once again failed to protect residents. This isn’t about religion. This is about poor land management, shoddy zoning laws, and bad citing planning. On day 1, the Sikh Gurdwara will not have enough parking. Town hall has failed the residents and working families in West Norwalk.

 

Patrick CooperOctober 15, 2021 at 8:11 pm

Liz Suchy – of course. This comment is not about the issue above – but – the root cause.

Campaign promise 2013 – Harry Rilling: “I will clean up planning and zoning”

In 2014, as mayor – he concluded the messy negotiations over the controversial proposed Al Madany Mosque with a settlement that Norwalk taxpayers funded.

What is worth reviewing – and what is relevant to this article – is the begging – request – pleading by the constituents – and the promise of the candidate turned mayor – that he would fix this.

https://www.wshu.org/post/norwalk-settles-mosque-dispute-more-2m-payout#stream/0

To quote Kimberly Grimm – “And what I would aks you, Mr. (Harry Rilling) Mayor, going forward, for you to do something about it and for you to make sure it doesn’t happen again.”

He didn’t. Ask him – why? What changed his mind?

Norwalk, you need some help. You need checks and balances on the council – you need representation that will implement the wishes of the residents. Please – please – vote this November 2nd.

 

DAVENDRA[Dave] ANANDOctober 16, 2021 at 7:26 am

I understand the Concerns of Norwalk Residents and Neighbors. Humbly – I suggest that the extreme stats being referenced are not valid.

Last Line of Sikh Daily Prayer: “TEYRAY BHAANAY SARBAT DAA BHALLAA” – BY YOUR MERCY WAHE GURU[God/Lord/Providence/Almighty/Bhagwaan/Allah/Yahweh/Jehovah, —], LET EVERY HUMAN STAY WELL & BE PROSPEROUS !

!!!!!! Daily say – TEYRAY BHAANAY SARBAT DAA BHALLAA – and you will expel all your worries away !!!!!!

I have been in the USA for over 54 years and lived in all 4 corners of this Great Country and tasted its VALUES first hand. In North Carolina – a Church gave free land at back of the Church to local Sikhs to build their Gurdwara. In San Jose, the Town/Mayor gave over 15 Acres for $1 for local Sikhs to build their Gurdwara. Those and other similar Charity projects are flourishing and have added Goodness and Values to their neighborhoods that Americans Cherish !

=================================
I am a Writer – below my FINAL Column:

INDIA NewEngland

Issue Date: August 2014, Posted On: 8/19/2014

Opinion: Why America and Americans are Exceptional?

By Dave Anand

In September of 2013, President Barack Obama claimed while addressing the United Nations that America and Americans are exceptional because of certain, special traits. Russian President Vladimir Putin and other World leaders laughed and questioned the validity of that claim. The best way to settle such an issue is to lay the facts and let them speak by themselves.

On July 4, 1876, America’s 100th birthday – Lawyer, Preeminent Agnostic, and The Great Orator Robert Ingersoll, articulated thus:

• One hundred years ago, our fathers retired the Gods from politics; The Declaration of Independence is the grandest, the bravest, and the profoundest political document that was ever signed by the representatives of a people. It is the embodiment of physical and moral courage and of political wisdom.

• For the first time in the history of the world, the representatives of a nation, the representatives of a real, living, breathing, hoping people, declared that all men are created equal. With one blow, with one stroke of the pen, they struck down all the cruel, heartless barriers that aristocracy, that priest-craft, that king-craft had raised between man and man. They struck down with one immortal blow that infamous spirit of caste that makes a God almost a beast, and a beast almost a god. With one word, with one blow, they wiped away and utterly destroyed all that had been done by centuries of war – centuries of hypocrisy – centuries of injustice.

• Our fathers founded the first secular government that was ever founded in this world. Recollect that. The first secular government; the first government that said every church has exactly the same rights, and no more; every religion has the same rights, and no more. In other words, our fathers were the first men who had the sense, who had the genius, to know that no church should be allowed to have a sword; that it should be allowed only to exert its moral influence.

• The rights of all are equal: justice, poised and balanced in eternal calm, will shake from the golden scales in which are weighed the acts of men, the very dust of prejudice and caste: No race, no color, no previous condition, can change the rights of men.

That political wisdom of the founders as captured in America’s Constitution has proven itself million and million times over and come true by creating a “True civilization in which every man gives to every other every right that he claims for himself.” Earlier, the British, Roman, and the Greek empires were self-centered and did not afford the same rights to every other citizen of the republic as we Americans do. This self-centeredness with a closed system in fact resulted in the demise of those powers; one reason experts believe America’s Open-System policies will prolong its Superpower status.

So, why is America Exceptional?

Like other great powers, America too created its own remarkable history. Unlike other powers whose main aim was subjugation and exploitation of weaker peoples and their riches – America’s founding was to do more with freedom. Liberty, as in the Statue of Liberty, is America’s foremost mantra.

Custodians of Freedom and champions of Democracy ever since they established theirs back in 1776 – Americans liberated themselves by defeating the British forces in the 1700s and in due course of time they freed the Slaves in 1863, under the president-ship of Abraham Lincoln. They freed Europe from German (Hitler) Forces in 1945 and since then have assumed the mantle of World-Peace.

The emancipation of the blacks by the steadfast Abraham Lincoln puts him in a unique freedom fighter category. Freedom fighters like Mahatma Gandhi used his own kind (Indians) to fight the other kind (British) to win freedom for his own kind (Indians). Who would not die for freeing their brethren and countrymen from extreme atrocities showered by a foreign power?

On the other hand – Lincoln used mostly all whites’ forces or the so-called Yankees of the North to defeat the Southern whites (aka Confederacy) in the brutal American Civil War to free the black slaves. It is estimated close to 617,000 white Americans died in the ruthless civil war to end slavery. This is the single most reason based upon which I would rank Abraham Lincoln over Gandhi as the number one freedom fighter of all times, leaving aside the direct messengers of God like Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, Guru Nanak, and so on.

In the same spirit and now for almost a century – The United States has been successful in establishing World-Peace by shedding its own blood abundantly and giving away their fortune. With the exception of minor hot spots in the Middle-East (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Israel-Palestinian battles, ISIS, etc.) or Iran/North Korea Nuclear standoff, Ukraine, etc. – there is nothing that compares or rises to the dire times of World War-II. The peace lid has been shut tight so far.

Exceptionalism of America and Americans is rooted in several principles and policies, and not just limited to the following:

– Foremost, Americans are Freedom lovers and will die for it as no other.
– Americans fight for Justice, Law and Equality for all
– They are the most charitable as a People and Country (Ranked #1 by Charity Aid Foundation)*
– Are most inclusive with an Open-System to embrace everyone legally possible.
– Have most Freedom to pursue any Religion; Freedom to pursue Happiness
– Have most Freedom for Businesses and Markets (Laissez-faire)
– the List is rather long to mention them all here ——–

No wonder people call America, The God’s Country!

With God’s blessings and wisdom of principles and policies America’s founders adopted – all of that gave rise to Economic/Military/Political/Diplomatic/Technology/Financial dominance and success of unimaginable proportions to make it the one and only Superpower now for over fifty years.

The euphoria of success did inject some insolence into the country; we earned the epithet of “Ugly American” in the mid-1900. I would venture to say that that ugliness renders Americans even more notable and special. What is remarkable is after all that huge success – the ugly Americans kept their System open for everyone and did not shut the doors like the Britishers/Romans/Greeks did when success hit them in the head.

For some time now, the media has been abuzz with predictions of America fading away and China replacing it as the next Superpower. That is just the buzz; the fact is other countries, including the Dragon, are simply catching up because of our munificence in sharing the hard-earned riches and creative technologies/inventions with everyone.

This same exceptionalism will not allow the hardworking and creative Americans to subjugate themselves to any power or the new Superpower; they will die before that happens! America and Americans, by example of an extremely successful political and economic experiment, have proven beyond doubt that they are truly exceptional.

Is there any other way to define this term [Exceptional]?

Dave Anand (danand55@gmail.com), a technologist, has written and published two books: “People Super Highway, the Mystique & Quest of Soul” and “The Verses.”

*2011 World Giving Index: US Ranked Most Charitable Country on Earth: The United States climbed from fifth place to the rank of most generous country in the world, according to the Charity Aid Foundation. The United Kingdom is the eighth most charitable nation in the world while the world’s fastest growing major economies – China and India – rank among the least altruistic. India stood at 134th position and China at 147th with Chinese people among the least likely on the planet to volunteer; only 4% said they would. The U.S. has increased its charity by 3 percentage points in this year, up to $212 billion.
=========================================

 

John O'NeillOctober 16, 2021 at 7:52 am

As a West Norwalker I’d like to know why Tom Livingston and Lisa Shanahan failed to alert area residents to this proposal. If NON didn’t run this story we never would’ve known..I thought they were supposed to be representing us? Maybe they’re proponents of the project? I’d like to get quotes from them for this story…In theory District E zoning issues should come before planting trees for these council members.

 

CT-PatriotOctober 17, 2021 at 5:32 am

Why place it in AAA residential zoning area? Looks like this was a set-up as before and we as taxpayers are about to get soaked again.

I’m all for freedom of religion and they should have the ability to build a structure as big as they choose on land that can accommodate the structure in the proper zoning area.

However, Richards Avenue does have other houses of worship and this seemed logical for their establishment seeing the others on the same street.

Unless the council work together with zoning to possibly change just that exact location for other than AAA residential, I believe things will once again get heated and everyone in Norwalk will loose.

I hope this can be solved without things get out of hand.

 

Nora KingOctober 17, 2021 at 9:43 am

Harry Rilling promised to change zoning eight years ago so this would never happen again. He looked me directly in the eye as well when I was on zoning and made me that promise. Why was the zoning not changed?

 

PeterOctober 17, 2021 at 2:13 pm

We need to get Rilling out now. Do it Norwalk.

 

Tysen CanevariOctober 17, 2021 at 5:15 pm

@Nora you have to talk to the chief of staff to get things done. Harry just accepts donations.

 

SteveOctober 17, 2021 at 5:46 pm

Republican legislators made special provisions to give religious organizations special treatment under the law. This makes it very difficult for municipalities to limit them. Many who are complaining here are of the same Ilk. They have reaped what they have sown

 

Missy ConradOctober 17, 2021 at 6:22 pm

Hello, Everyone! Have you ever been at the Sikh Temple in the former Union Bank on West Avenue, where it is still located? When we had an active Clergy Association of all denominations here in Norwalk, many of us were invited to the Temple. I was the Quaker representative. We Quakers were (not)known locally by our official name on our checks written for donations: “Wilton Monthly Meeting,” which is meaningless to most people; finally we changed to “Wilton Quaker Meeting,” which is still misleading, since Quakers come from all over & name our Meeting Houses geographically. A Quaker Meeting House is not in the village, but at a cross road, as is explained by guides at Sturbridge Village.
My husband Jeff & I grew up in Pelham, NY, down the RR Line. After living many places, we took the advice of an older fellow employee at Doubleday Publishing & came up to Norwalk in October, 1971. With help from our aunt & uncle, we bought a little house with a barn. We read The Norwalk Hour & learned about opportunities. Tish Gibbs needed a place to store newspapers that had been picked up by volunteers on Saturday but had to wait until Monday to be brought to the scrap dealer, which used to be next to the Norwalk Transfer Station. And, I, who earlier in Hell’s Kitchen, NYC, had campaigned for Jeff while five months pregnant & ended up filling his position in President Lyndon B. Johnson’s Great Society Program & working with the Central Park Conservancy to re-do the 46th Street Park depicted in West Side Story, attended Norwalk’s Parks & Recreation Commission, since disbanded. With our little daughter Grace at home, I volunteered to babysit the children of the Board of the League of Women Voters once a month. Once I had seven boys & one girl who, though young, all had Spring Fever! Afterwards, I was given a gift membership to the League of Women Voters of Norwalk. That is where I met my best friend, Louise Golub, with whom I worked on environmental & social issues, such as housing & city planning & financing. Also, as a follower of Jesus & mentored by the Rev Dr Martin Luther & Coretta Scott King, thus a Pacifist, I advocate cutting our military spending, as does the US Conference of Mayors, & reallocating the $ to human needs.
The City of Norwalk can lower the property taxes of people who own near a building such as this Temple. I am in favor of this plan.

 

Michael Allan TorreOctober 18, 2021 at 9:41 am

Traditional American life and values are undergoing change and upheaval from internal and external forces without resistance to the changes or support for traditional American values.

 

Joanna CooperOctober 18, 2021 at 2:33 pm

The message residents should take away here is that this administration doesn’t provide protection to home owners. They are proposing a monstrous structure in a triple A zoned neighborhood. If they can do it there they can do it anywhere.
We are being sold out to developers by our mayor and the one party common council. Clearly they don’t learn from their mistakes and they ignore the rights and pleas of residents. Time to clean house Election Day.

 

SteveOctober 19, 2021 at 9:47 pm

Not sure where Michael Allan Torre is going here but it has the sound of xenophobia . Our strength comes from our diversity, tolerance and pull up by the bootstraps mentality, that includes different forms of spirituality.

 

Concerned NeighborNovember 12, 2021 at 8:06 pm

The initial permit application filed on 8/9 clearly states in its first three paragraphs, that this structure will be serving their congregants from the entirety of Fairfield County CT, as well as Westchester County, NY. Exactly how many of those current congregants are actually tax paying residents or even business owners in the city of Norwalk? All the existing religious facilities in the area being used as a precedent by the applicant in this case have one glaring difference from this proposed facility. They each serve congregations primarily composed of local Norwalk residents.
That point seems to be one that no one is willing to broach in this process, but is perhaps one of the most important to be considered.
Why are we considering allowing a magnet religious center that serves multiple counties across two states, to be built in a residentially zoned neighborhood, on a comically small parcel of land for the massive size of the structure, that cannot possibly work in the long term for everyone involved?

I fully understand that from the applicants perspective they were able to purchase the land for a mere fraction of its comparative cost if it were located in an appropriate commercial zone. But what is, or will be in the future, their actual contribution to our local community? What is their actual skin in the proverbial game after this facility is built? Plain and simple, this is a multi-state regional facility, to be built in a residential neighborhood that does not have the infrastructure to adequately support it in the long term no matter what kind of spin is applied to it now during the permitting process.

The foundation excavation alone for this structure will consume around 1/3 of the 1 acre parcel including the minimal safe over-dig and stock-piling areas required by the process. Plus the massive drainage galleries and septic system excavations to follow that will consume virtually all undisturbed ground remaining within the allowed property setbacks afterwards. There will be a steady stream of heavy equipment, triaxles hauling in/out, and intermittent concrete trucks lined up on Richards avenue completely blocking a lane of the road several days a week for at least the first 6 months of the project. As they will have almost no room whatsoever to effectively manage the daily site-work logistics involved while also providing minimal parking for the dozens of men actually performing the work each day onsite.
That means about 10 vehicles to/from the school or from Fillow making that left turn will be forced to sit and wait past the stop sign on Richards until flagged through. Or traffic will be detoured down Fillow and through Geneva to get around the construction area and back to Richards. They love making hypothetical Traffic Impact surveys about presumed circumstances when the project is actually completed in several years. The truth is that this build will shut down half of Richards Avenue intermittently on almost a daily basis for months. Leaving a constant daily trail of mud and site debris trailing away from the jobsite each and every day no matter how many gravel “track pads”, their engineers indicate be installed on the plans to appease the Building Department in pre-con submittals. That much is not hypothetical and is a certainty.

After at least 18 months of that when the new facility is substantially completed to the point it can be occupied as the remaining work continues outside, that constant influx of construction traffic will be immediately augmented by and then replaced by out of town congregants entering and leaving the building to and from I95 and the Merrit.

That is exactly what we are signing up for here folks. As a homeowner living in the immediate area, I feel it necessary to question why this enormous Regional Magnet Facility is likely going to be built in our residentially zoned neighborhood, and what its ties are to the actual Norwalk community and its tax rolls per congregant that this facility truly has, before accepting the ongoing daily inconveniences and certain negative impact on my personal property value that it will surely incur in perpetuity thereafter. The fact they got a really great deal on a small derelict property outside an expensive commercial zone to greatly expand their current facilities which serve the greater metro NY area, isn’t making me feel better about it here in West Norwalk down the street.

 

CT-PatriotNovember 13, 2021 at 10:13 am

Seems a deep dive into the entire aspect of zoning, property, construction, traffic, etc.

@Concerned points out more in depth details that seem lacking in both news articles but also from government on full disclosure.

From all things considered, before things get out of hand as it did prior, it may be more prudent to find a much larger parcel of land in an area that can better service their build-out/construction, but their congregation as well at the same price or maybe less.

Unless there is a more suitable but larger parcel in an area that can handle all the above, I believe once again this will end up in court then all residents will again be paying off legal fees and settlement.

The more you think about this, the more you have to believe this was put in motion to fail from the beginning and to get a windfall of cash in the end by Norwalk taxpayers.

 

Kelly A.November 28, 2021 at 11:05 am

The quietness of our neighborhood is threatened more by leaf blowers than this institution.

 

Concerned NeighborNovember 29, 2021 at 8:28 pm

@CT Patriot raises a great point in stating that this will very likely not end reasonably for anyone involved. Once this permit has been issued, it cannot be simply rescinded when the first dozen formal complaints are filed immediately after the project begins and its impacts become a daily reality for the local community.
Rendering that aforementioned point to be moot, the applicant has already made a presumably quite substantial capital investment in the property and its design/application processes to date. They will surely not back down at this point and effectively agree to just waste those significant investments made in earnest without fairly seeking compensation for their losses should the project not be permitted to move forwards into the actual construction phase.

The big picture that was wisely alluded to above is that the city of Norwalk has already allowed the process to proceed this far for the applicant, and their financial investments are now very real and have been made in earnest on their part… So basically, this matter can now ultimately only end in a future lawsuit one way or another and we will all be paying for it, again. The permit is rejected, the city invariably gets sued for several million dollars and has to settle it. The Permit is granted, and local residents begin suing for damages and it goes nowhere fruitful. It cannot be put back in the proverbial box now.

All over it Ji. I'll respond in a bit. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Norwalk is...California...perfect

[GurjantGnostic]

Tangentially related. Anyone catch that new show Compton? Realy good. I'll give this due diligence when I'm free. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Still haven't done deep diving, busy, but here's the jist. 

We look at that part of cali. We find every other religous or non residential building there. We compare building size, parking lot size, lot size and general aesthetic. I guarantee you we're about to find jewish, mormon, and a variety of christian buildings. Perhaps scientology or other <banned word filter activated>. 

Then we single out the loudest dissenters, and take a stroll through, not only what they wrote and pick it apart, but their facebook insta twits etc. And we quickly will find white supremacist narratives and prejudice against brown and black people. Then we screen cap all that. 

By the time that's done, a clear narrative will be emerging that we can put into our own stance. 

We'll need somebody with social media to post our stance, and make some noise on the web, and some people jingling phones. 

Then we need to, via pre internet, and post internet methods both, contact the city council, not only with our voices of supporting the project, but our concern about the very apparent and emerging narrative of discrimination. 

A few of us will need to contact them as Sikhs and I'll contact them as a very concerned prior service airmen and a california "native".  Lol. Native. White people crack me up. 

The racists as far away as texas are calling back home to shed their salty tears. 

anyway some foot and mouth work to do, if you guys are down, but this is a clear cut case of "we don't want you sand n****** here, we think you're taliban and even if we knew better we wouldn't care, your <banned word filter activated> is brown". 

[GurjantGnostic]

That show Compton is 100 about this mindset in california. The white liberal version of the kkklueless.  

[GurjantGnostic]

Oh, and many of the even more rational sounding arguments about "what's best for the community" is neither here nor there. We have a right to the land we bought, and we have a right to use it as fitting, which it is zoned for. 

The zoning commision is not in the total position of approval, they're there to make sure things meet certain guidelines. 

And we need Sikh lawyers to make some noise and perhaps ultimately sue the ever living <banned word filter activated> out of Norwalk and shame them for being racist pos if the council, like the people writing in, show their colors. 

And if they deny the plan in the end? At the same time you sue them you build four Bungas at the corners and connect them with a wall, with a huge open space in the middle. And you blast that Kirtan all day until 10pm. And if they would prefer you go inside...welll...maybe you could build a Gurudwara. But this time the city will have to subsidize it, since it's for the community and all that. Zoning council can't do anything about Bungas. 

If we were white we'd bribe them or kill some people so I guess they're lucky we're Sikhs. 

Even if they swear up and down that no no, it's not racism it's something else, we tell them appearances are reality and it very much appears that way so it's the same thing. Only way to clear the air is make a bold move in our favor. Which will go well with the cosmopolitan image they're trying for, despite being a bunch of low class hicks in socal. 

[GurjantGnostic]

Watch Compton. 

Everything we dig up, or arguments we form, let's Q all that here. 

[dallysingh101]

Would there have been this much noise if it were a church that was being proposed? 

Is it just the 'alien' nature of the architectural style that has some objecting? 

 

[Ranjeet01]

Norwalk. Quick Google is in Los Angeles County.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwalk,_California

According to Wikipedia, the non Hispanic white is a minority but looking at the names of the Council, they seem to be Hispanic. 

70 percent of Norwalk's population is Hispanic. 

California is a big state and there is vast differences between different areas.

The Punjabi and Sikh population seems to be centred in the Central Valley area and the more Northern areas towards the Bay Area and Yuba City.

The Southern California Punjabi Sikhs (the ones I know of) seem to be different from the Sikhs from other parts of California. They seem to have some animosity towards the Bay Area Sikhs for some reason.

This Gurdwara would have no problems in the more Central and northern areas as the Sikh community as I think that the community is more established there .

It seems the Sureno Hispanics seem to have an issue (my perception ) whereas Norte types may not.

This is my perception not facts.