Guru Amar Das ji maharaj on caste

[dallysingh101]

Making a thread for this bani on it's own. Here Guru ji doesn't seem to hold back on the topic.  

Dhan Dhan Guru Amardas Ji!!

 

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਜਾਤਿ ਕਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕਰੀਅਹੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ No one should be proud of his social class and status.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਿੰਦੇ ਸੋ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ He alone is a Brahmin, who knows God. ||1||

ਜਾਤਿ ਕਾ ਗਰਬੁ ਨ ਕਰਿ ਮੂਰਖ ਗਵਾਰਾ ॥ Do not be proud of your social class and status, you ignorant fool!

 

 

ਇਸੁ ਗਰਬ ਤੇ ਚਲਹਿ ਬਹੁਤੁ ਵਿਕਾਰਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ So much sin and corruption comes from this pride. ||1||Pause||

ਚਾਰੇ ਵਰਨ ਆਖੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਈ ॥ Everyone says that there are four castes, four social classes.

ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਬਿੰਦ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਓਪਤਿ ਹੋਈ ॥੨॥ They all emanate from the drop of God's Seed. ||2||

ਮਾਟੀ ਏਕ ਸਗਲ ਸੰਸਾਰਾ ॥ The entire universe is made of the same clay.

ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧਿ ਭਾਂਡੇ ਘੜੈ ਕੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰਾ ॥੩॥ The Potter has shaped it into all sorts of vessels. ||3||

ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਦੇਹੀ ਕਾ ਆਕਾਰਾ ॥ The five elements join together, to make up the form of the human body.

ਘਟਿ ਵਧਿ ਕੋ ਕਰੈ ਬੀਚਾਰਾ ॥੪॥ Who can say which is less, and which is more? ||4||

ਕਹਤੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਇਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਕਰਮ ਬੰਧੁ ਹੋਈ ॥ Says Nanak, this soul is bound by its actions.

ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭੇਟੇ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥੫॥੧॥ Without meeting the True Guru, it is not liberated. ||5||1||

[CHaamCHrick]

To be proud of your caste is not a Sikhi thing. Guru Ji says not to feel proud of your caste and do not discriminate others not on the same caste as yourself. We are all born according to our karmas therefore it’s wrong to feel proud of yourself and your caste or to look down on others because they are higher or lower caste than yours. Sikhs are not allowed to practice caste discrimination in most areas of their lives!

[dallysingh101]

Bump 

[Gulzar Singh]

One thing I've noticed is apne who believe in caste can take advantage of those who don't believe in caste. Basically they put on a facade of not believing in caste only when it serves their purpose. Example when it comes to marriage, they will allow their son to marry a girl from another caste if she's pretty, educated, PR etc, but the same people would not allow their own daughter to marry a boy from another caste.  If non-belief in caste is not genunie and reciprocated by the other party, it all feels very one-sided and a feeling of being taken advantage of which leads to tribalism. 

Very much like how muslims allow men to marry non-muslim women but not the other way around.

[dallysingh101]

1 minute ago, Gulzar Singh said:

One thing I've noticed is apne who believe in caste can take advantage of those who don't believe in caste. Basically they put on a facade of not believing in caste only when it serves their purpose. Example when it comes to marriage, they will allow their son to marry a girl from another caste if she's pretty, educated, PR etc, but the same people would not allow their own daughter to marry a boy from another caste.  If non-belief in caste is not genunie and reciprocated by the other party, it all feels very one-sided and a feeling of being taken advantage of which leads to tribalism. 

Very much like how muslims allow men to marry non-muslim women but not the other way around.

I know people who believe in caste often lie about it, and pretend to be the opposite, or keep very quiet about the subject to get other Sikhs guards down. 

I think this is standard practice for them. Apnay shouldn't quickly believe or trust certain people's words. Instead look at how they behave and how they socialise.  That'll give you the biggest clue. These days, most people are clued up to these snakes anyway. 

[dallysingh101]

56 minutes ago, Gulzar Singh said:

One thing I've noticed is apne who believe in caste can take advantage of those who don't believe in caste. Basically they put on a facade of not believing in caste only when it serves their purpose. Example when it comes to marriage, they will allow their son to marry a girl from another caste if she's pretty, educated, PR etc, but the same people would not allow their own daughter to marry a boy from another caste.  If non-belief in caste is not genunie and reciprocated by the other party, it all feels very one-sided and a feeling of being taken advantage of which leads to tribalism. 

Very much like how muslims allow men to marry non-muslim women but not the other way around.

It goes the other way too. When they can't get one of their daughters married off to one of their own, all of a sudden they become more and more 'accepting' of inter-caste marriages. Then if they can't offload her still, often they start opening up to interfaith or interracial marriages. Damn hypocrites. lol

 

    

[ipledgeblue]

On 7/16/2022 at 2:13 PM, dallysingh101 said:

Then if they can't offload her still, often they start opening up to interfaith or interracial marriages. Damn hypocrites. lol    

I really don't think those families are interested in continuing sikhi and sometimes marrying our of culture can be a good thing for them instead of corrupting sikh families. Some of these girls will mess up sikh families, there are exceptions, some girls will follow sikhi better if she marries into a good family. It's a gamble though with these girls from these families, especially if they are drinking or hookah/sheesha smoking girls, maybe dressing nangi on instagram, or demanding clean shaven or haircut; then it's probably best to stay away from these families instead of marrying!

[Gulzar Singh]

Quote

I really don't think those families are interested in continuing sikhi and sometimes marrying our of culture can be a good thing for them instead of corrupting sikh families. Some of these girls will mess up sikh families, there are exceptions, some girls will follow sikhi better if she marries into a good family. It's a gamble though with these girls from these families, especially if they are drinking or hookah/sheesha smoking girls, maybe dressing nangi on instagram, or demanding clean shaven or haircut; then it's probably best to stay away from therse families instead of marrying!

Yep reap what you sow!  However I will say this, sometimes it is our own fault for girls marrying out. Too many of us lack a caring nature and can be ridiculously harsh on our own with disabilities.  I've heard a story were a cripple Sikh girl ended up marrying a muslim because apne couldn't look past it.  Some families reject girls whose father is ill thinking that her offspring may get the same illness. Pathetic.

[GurjantGnostic]

4 hours ago, ipledgeblue said:

I really don't think those families are interested in continuing sikhi and sometimes marrying our of culture can be a good thing for them instead of corrupting sikh families. Some of these girls will mess up sikh families, there are exceptions, some girls will follow sikhi better if she marries into a good family. It's a gamble though with these girls from these families, especially if they are drinking or hookah/sheesha smoking girls, maybe dressing nangi on instagram, or demanding clean shaven or haircut; then it's probably best to stay away from therse families instead of marrying!

Amen bro. Sikhi is Guru Ki Fauj. 

[GurjantGnostic]

1 hour ago, Gulzar Singh said:

Yep reap what you sow!  However I will say this, sometimes it is our own fault for girls marrying out. Too many of us lack a caring nature and can be ridiculously harsh on our own with disabilities.  I've heard a story were a cripple Sikh girl ended up marrying a muslim because apne couldn't look past it.  Some families reject girls whose father is ill thinking that her offspring may get the same illness. Pathetic.

We are not going about Anand Karaj authentically. If we were there would be no issues like this. The Sangat and the Vichola just find suitable matches. And without great legitimate objection, it should go through.