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WJKK WJKF No you wasnt paaji u was trying to be chust, and anybody reading that would be offending, but suppose you can insult anybody as you know everything. warning ji, and mera comment vi thapar on cheek c, par twada humour failure na hojave ji....but u know what ur not worth the bother either, its not ur fault, u just need some learning to do dear.

Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh Are we the only nation/religion without our own country? Just to clear up, India is NOT our country. If India was our country, they would atleast recognize us as seperate from Hindus, whereas this is NOT. Vaheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguroo Jee Kee Fateh

Yes, you are correct, Comment from one person can't be treated as views/opinion of the whole community and hatred towards the whole community. They have a special animosity towards Jews and let them have that. As per teachings of Guru, "Sarab Dharam mein shresth Dharam, Har ko Naam Jap Nirmal Karam". So, the best religion is Naam Simaran and to spread love.

this is a little off topic you cant say that "guys from punjab have simply no ethic or morals" stop generalizing.. !! its a problem in many men nomatter what religion and where they are from.. maya doesnt discriminate!! the problem is that some men think they cant get away with these things. they dont think they would be questioned. one cant distinguish between right and wrong when ur drunk on maya.. sexual abuse, molesting women is so prevalent in our society yet the when i was younger i went to gurudwara...there was going to be a samagam there i was only 12... as i was walking out of the darbar hall and this guy was looking for a chair he was about 80 and couldnt sit on the carpet... he had pain in his joints so... i got him a chair so he could sit.. and he got really weird and started touching me in wrong ways in front of everyone in the darbar hall.. then his wife came and told him to stop!! and got mad at him.. but for me it was so traumatizing i just sat there and cried. being the victim of perverts wasnt the first and the last time for me it happens to so many girls but they dont say anything because they are afraid that they will be blamed for it.. or they dont want to create a scene its usually men as predators and women as victims..but not always.. men continue to do it because they dont think they will ever be punished for what they do.. its so easy to blame it on the girl when something like this happens people put more focus on the faults in girl such as how she dressed, did she talk to men, did she try to catch attention but less on why men do it? why is our society to so messed up that it allows such things to happen!??

Matheen you have butchered the Shabad. The original posters video and what you say above in your own writing do not at all match to what the Shabad is saying. I'm present another shabad, but before I do. Lets see what this shabad is saying. The Shabad starts off by saying meeting Maharaj the life of a Gursikh has been blessed to me. Throughout Gurbani we listen and read the words playing with Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj, laughing with Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj in the sense of performing, honest living, selfless service and where does this selfless service and honest living come from; Reading, listen, and singing Gurbani. Futher, Satguru ji says meditate on my naam 24/7, without and stoppage. Satguru ji is calling the practice of naam 24/7 as laughing, playing, dressing and eating. If you disagree then lets do it the way many intrepret this shabad. What they do is forget to meditate on the first part and jump to the last line of the shabad. So the last line of the shabad becomes the first line and the first line where Maharaj says, O Nanak meeting the True Guru, One comes to know the Perfect Way, becomes the last line. When you read the shabad wrong then the original posters video and what you said becomes correct. But Maharaj did not write it this way and he said first find know the perfect path and then you will know what true laughing and playing, etc is. If your still not seeing what is being said, then let's look at another shabad, which reinforces the idea that honest living, selfless service, and meditating is the laughing and playing. This solak by Satguru Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj is speaking to those that laugh, and playing in like in the video by the original poster and anything else worldly. This Shabad is by Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 261 sloku ] salok || Salok: Kwq pIq Kylq hsq Brmy jnm Anyk ] khaath peeth khaelath hasath bharamae janam anaek || Eating, drinking, playing and laughing, I have wandered through countless incarnations. Bvjl qy kwFhu pRBU nwnk qyrI tyk ]1] bhavajal thae kaadtahu prabhoo naanak thaeree ttaek ||1|| Please, God, lift me up and out of the terrifying world-ocean. Nanak seeks Your Support. ||1|| The Shabad you presented is by Satguru Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj and so is this one, I presented. In the way you are looking at it and the way many look at the shabad so they can go on laughing and playing into worldly desires, is saying Guru Sahib contradicted himself. Those that dance to dirty music or dance at all don't know the Guru's path. Gurbani never made anyone dance. And if you have Gurbani 24/7 playing in your mind (which is the Satguru's hukam) then what is going to make you move to perform bhangra or other dances?

Wrapped up the entire issue well. x10 Another thing is if we got our own state, something that even Sant Ji wasn't for or against, would we be able to govern it in our state of affairs? We can't even agree on one issue as a kaum how can we push further. Hard way is the right way, we need to read and educate ourself and pursue the issue with intelligence. Utmost goals as a kaum should be (in my opinion): 1) Everyone focus on her or his own jeevan 2) Become intelligent in political affairs and pursue your education to become contributing members of society 3) Keep rehit and strive to take khande da paul (amrit shako) 4) Unify the panth by pushing aside people who divide us juts like Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale united the entire Sikh kaum. Even people who we think have good interest at hand end up doing harm over good. If we can do this everything good will come running to us and everything will fall into its place on its own.

WJKK WJKF Very bad language from immature people now. Why would one need to be sitting down to read or hear what u said, if u said that in front of one, you'd probably be the one getting the complete slap. Grow up and learn something in life instead of being rebellious, learn something, be a sikh. Sikhia is very important for you.

They should NEVER meet until the wedding day.

It's pretty pathetic how people in our community tend to close their eyes when Amritdharis do bhangra, listen to bhangra/punjabi music, have jaago/maayiaan at their weddings but are very fast at pointing fingers at people who have embraced our religion.

Letter to the Sikh Federation (UK) from Lord Sebastian Coe on the eve of the Sikh Lobby. This confirms Amritdhari Sikhs will be allowed to wear their Kirpans to Olympic 2012 events. We are however concerned with the imposition of a size limit of a 3 inch blade. As Sikhs we should not readily accept such limitations. However, the letter is a positive step forward and we will see what we can do to have the restriction on the 3 inch size removed. This letter shows the importance of lobbying. Lord Coe Ltr 180311.pdf

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji KI Fateh Guru Roop Sangat Jeo, continuing with the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji Steek, here is Sri Bachittar Natak gurprasad: Read on SikhSangat's Scribd: http://www.scribd.com/doc/51048631/Sri-Bachittar-Natak-Sri-Dasam-Granth-Sahib-Jee-Steek-Volume-1 Part I: Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Volume 1 - Jaap Sahib here Part II: Sri Akaal Ustat - Dhanvaad jeo

Yes and many of the Sikh Jathebandhis, Sants , Babas, Nihangs do not even mention anything wrong is happening. Until they join in then the awarness will not reach the masses. Its a case of practise what you preach, injustice is going on now just as during the time of the Gurus.

R Singh, you answered your own question with the Gurbani you provided. ਪਾਠੁ ਪੜਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਬੇਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿਓ ਨਿਵਲਿ ਭੁਅੰਗਮ ਸਾਧੇ ॥ ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ਸਿਉ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਛੁਟਕਿਓ ਅਧਿਕ ਅਹੰਬੁਧਿ ਬਾਧੇ ॥੧॥ “They read scriptures, and contemplate the Vedas; they practice the inner cleansing techniques of Yoga, and control of the breath. But they cannot escape from the company of the five passions; they are increasingly bound to egotism. ||1||” (Ang 641-42). To read Bani ritually and wear Bana ritually, and then indulgle in these acts is completely wrong. What virtues did you gain from reading Gurbani, if all your going to do is manmat acts? Your mind is still wandering in all directions, if this is what you call religion. Satguru give is kirpa when reading Bani is focused on Maharaj. In order to practice Gurbani, everything you think is right must be dropped and the rehat that is so hard and puts us in stress and anxiety must be implemented. Gurbani never makes a person dance when it is read or heard with attention. Without attention a morakh mind jumps from universe to universe. So if you want to stay a moorakh then rely on the mind to drag you through life. No Gursikh in the past danced to Gurbani and no Gursikh in the future will dance to Gurbani. So why dance to dirty lyrics or at all? Do these gora Sikhs and the punjabi Sikhs that dance get some new wings that the Gursikhs were lacking in? Gursikhs don't dance because they practice and read Gurbani with attention. Punjabis and whites, yellows, purples, blacks that dance, read Bani to increase their pride. The dancers focus on I can and Gursikhs focus on the Guru's path by saying Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi Tuhi

In my opinion not everybody who wears a Turban is a sikh.... Not everybody who keeps kesh is a sikh.... not everybody who wears a kara or a Dagger is a Sikh same as for kashera..... Are they really doing beadbi? Yes it's beadbi if they dance to Gurbani like in the video, for them it's more fun... they dun have the consciousness to understand what it means to give respect to bani. But at this time our lovley brothers and sisters who are comming from Punjab are doing more beadbi than gores can ever do. Please remember Ravidassis took out Bani from Bhagat Ravidass ji maharaj and created an own Granth.... they do major beadbi at this time and disrespecting bani. GUrbani is not kept with sucham... Even our lovley Granthis do more beadbi then Gores... SGPC is sleeping and Satkar compane in England started the major projekt to look after gurdwaras....

Please go to that link, it's so easy to donate money! It's also very easy to get the government to donate 28p for free for every pound you donate! That means the that British Government will support you in this cause to release illegally imprisoned Sikh men and women, and give an extra 28% of your donation, for FREE!!! May be your donation will help a bread winning father return home to support his struggling Children!! You could also ask Friends and Family to donate to!

Please find attached instructions for the Sikh Lobby on Tuesday 22 March at the Houses of Parliament between 10.30am-2pm. You also have a copy of the briefing on the main issues and the actions we expect of MPs. Please email a copy of this briefing to your MP as soon as possible so they are prepared for the lobby. Ask your MP to exert pressure on the following to attend the event in the Attlee suite between 12 noon and 2pm on 22 March: •Secretary of State for Transport, Rt Hon Philip Hammond MP •Lord Coe as the Chair of LOCOG •Andrew Stunnell OBE MP, Minister at DCLG Please familiarise yourself with the briefing and come fully prepared for the lobby. Make sure everyone that comes to the lobby knows who their MP is. Use their postcode and the web site http://www.writetothem.com/ before you get to the Houses of Parliament to determine the name of your MP. Instructions 220311.pdf Briefing.pdf

People with glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

you have their cousins aka hill billies.

Everyone's on a different level. We don't need to tell them what is right or wrong because inside they know and/or will find out eventually. They have a miri piri school set up in Amritsar where they do more gatka, shaster vidiya, bani, ghord sawari than a lot of Sikhs would do on average. Instead of looking at shoulds and shouldn'ts we should simply look at ourselves and people will automatically get inspired to follow. If we mud-sling at someone else and say they aren't the "right" kind of Sikhs we in turn hurt ourselves by judging them. If someone is deliberately doing something wrong that hurts the Sikh image or beadbi we should stick up to it with a truthful reply. Of course they aren't perfect and may be doing some things that are wrong, but they are on the path of Sikhi and i have faith that good will come out of it. On top of that everyone makes mistakes and if they are the only one's singled out they will feel alienated and nothing will be done. If everyone focuses on his or her own jeevan everything will fall into place. Unity is all we need.

Oh, I didn't know the Khalsa dances to celebrate, and enjoy themselves. I always thought, they did extra Bani, Akhand Paaths, Sehaj Paaths. Shaster Vidiya practise, Gatka practise, Horse-riding. I must be mistaken <_<

Sangat Tv need to up their game in order to make these programmes enticing. The broadcast quality was very poor and there were many technical problems. Sorry Mohan Singh, I could not get into the discussion because of the poor broadcast. I hope Sangat Tv up improve, we dont want to have lost opportunities to do parchar.

India is our nation as our grandfathers shed their blood for its freedom. Our ancestors fought to protect human rights on this land. Don't alienate yourself from this country. It is our birthright and our history can prove that we have full right to claim the whole North India including punjab state from pakistan. Its just the matter of time. However we need to change our ideology and should have non-judgmental personality. It is also applauding that how our youngsters voice for khalistan without any knowledge of our own history (our history goes beyond 1980's or 47's). If tomorrow someone come and try to brainwash these youth, i bet that they will fell for them because of the lack of knowledge. Our so called leaders who don't have knowledge about our history and yet blast on microphone about khalistan because they know "Khalistan" is the word that attracts sangat and brings fame and $.. Yes they are doing okay job but later on you see result such as Mohkam Singh joining Badal or other leaders joining police cat "Bittu". Hatred is another thing that is holding us back and always earn us negative light no matter how good our intentions are. Nobody and not even sikh dharam likes hatred mindset. Most of the khalistani posts on our forum are full of hatred; it is natural of having hate against someone but keep it in control and convert that energy into something that will make other side feel uneasy and more guilty. For example; SikhsForJustice ppl are putting their energy into productive work and they are giving nightmares to Indian Government. There are easy way and hard way.. easy way is short term plan and hard way requires us to gain knowledge and lots of patience.

love the post. Amrit is the initiation to our Guru. The bhagat sahibaan existed before Khande batte da Amrit was pargat, but they did take initiation from their Guru. Like in the sakhi when Bhagat Kabir ji lay in the path of his (soon to be) teacher, his teacher's foot struck him as it was dark, and he said 'wake up and say Raam'. That was his initiation. The various saints of various dharms do get an initiation from their teacher, whatever form it may take. In ours, it is Amrit. I also believe when we get Amrit, it comes with us to our next janam; If someone was close to the Guru in a past janam, then they have that Amrit with them from that time. most of us don't know our past, we are still asleep, and we take Amrit as part of that process of awakening.

Census is a joke!

Famous cricketing family of aG Ram Singh was from Madras. His sons Kirpal singh, Milkha singh and satvinder singh also were test cricketers. They spoke tamil. I tell you one thing that people of south are very nice as a person. They are simple and truthful lacking cunning attitude. I enjoyed my stay there.

Waheguru ji! My hair is past my knees! and it has alot of volume also, I had a problem figuring out how to handle my hair also, this is what i do, i do a pancake joora so i dont tie a knot, its a sort of loose joora that is on right centre on the top of my head and then i tie a patka or u can tie a rumall to ensure the joora doesnt move, then u tie small dastar for support and neatness, second dastar to finish off this way my dastar is nice and round and my joora isnt sticking out at all, my dastar is a perfect size, with practise u will be easily be able to handle ur hair,, when i wanted to start tying a dastar, it was hard for bibya to tie a dastar on my becuz they didnt know how to handle such long hair lol! Good luck!

Dhan Dhan Shaheed Satwant Singh Dhan Dhan Shaheed Beant Singh Dhan Dhan Shaheed Kehar Singh. How great were these Singhs - it's a pity they ran out of ammo - they should have shot the B**** so many times that there would be nothing to cremate!!!

How about we blow him into a thousand pieces so that they can sweep whats left of him of the floor!!! Like the justice we gave to that ******* gobind ram!

whats that gonna do....how about we do ardas to guruji to give us strength to show the world how wicked and shameless these kinda people are .......im sure he's already use to dirty comments already....and thats just gonna drag us down to his level....anyways my two cents... Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa! Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

But not all muslims are that way.. For example.. i don't think the Muslim fakir who laid the foundation of Golden temple washed his hand throughly just because he laid the foundation of the most religious site for Kafir or say sikhs.. ? Not all muslims beliefs and not everyone of em are same.. For example not every sikh is like kps gill.. also.. he is doing keertan all around the gurdwaray in Punjab these days :lol:

i think we should let Delhi decide our fate. the Indian government will do whatever possible to protect the interests of the Sikhs. Since Independence Bharat has done so much for Punjab and the Sikhs. What a precious gift Nehru Ji gave the Sikhs, a Punjabi state, wah wah. Thank God INdira Ji and Mr KPS Gill flushed out terrorism from Punjab. It is just the problem casing Sikhs in the West yelling about Punjab waters, and Sikh population in Punjab. Ask Sikhs in Punjab if they are worried about Punjab rivers drying up or the Sikhs becoming a minority in Punjab. It is all ISI propaganda, Pakistan backed Sikhs living in Kothis. PLease Sangat Ji, the Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal will do everything in their power to protect us. Also it is great that the central government has provided AK 47s to Babas and their deras in PUnjab, It was a great sight to see Bhaniarawaala and other "Sants" wth 10-12 men with assault rifles. Thank God the gov't took out those menacing amritdhari singhs with guns in the 80s and now has armed Sants who write their own Granths. Let's stop worrying about these things people, people in Punjab don't care, why do we here in the West keep causing trouble. Hindustan Zindabaad! -My sarcasm knows no bounds.

LOVE people... LOVE... even in the face of adveristy and war, Bhai Kanehiya LOVED! so she wrote something bad about us...big deal.. all that means is that we should learn from it, in a sense.. that's one person in a high stature that we haven't been able to impress with our love... so show MORE love! in our dealings with her, we should be SWEET and LOVING so that she has but no choice to see what the True Guru's True Sikhs are like! calling her trailor trash just serves as ammunition for her to further attack us... i'm sure our image isn't exactly loved by the community as well.. does that make us third class? no veerji, it does not.. becuase even if many people choose to hate our appearance, we can still change their opinions of us with our substance! and that is what we should do..as our Guru's Sikhs, we should show enough love, to show her her wrong ways, and to give her a GOOD taste of what Sikhi is... a religion based on love, tolerance and acceptance... we must not let our anger and out rage give our Guru's teachings a bad name!!! this is just a benti from me, and if Ms/Miss/Mrs. Bolan is reading this, please do understand that your report is very hurtful, and definitely not an accurate of our community, and as a sincerely humble request from me, firstly, please do not allow that thread to be the only you use to base your judgement of us as Sikhs, and secondly, please do see the good in so many of us, and write an apology. so many of us have so much love for our countries... so many of us WANT to give back to our communites and be positive.. but reports like these give us a bad taste in our mouth s... kind of like, we've already done good, we want to do more, but why, when this community doesn't even want to see the good in us? please apologize, please! there's so many of us that can have such a positive influence in the world, and we just want the CHANCE to show that we are Guruji's Sikhs! and to all, including Kim Bolan, stay in chardhi kalaa... and always prioritize the truth, and love.

Nothing wrong going on, even if it's not my cup of tea. Some of you guys would scare away anyone who wanted to know about Sikhi. Also, as one Singh mentioned above, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.... Sometimes whether we see something as good or bad is more a reflection of our own inner state than reality. Whether or not something is 'acceptable' is also usually a personal view - many of us would find very high speed, loud, almost violent kirtan or simran unacceptable etc. Chill: ਮਃ ੫ ॥ Ma 5 || ਨਾਨਕ ਸਤਿਗੁਰਿ ਭੇਟਿਐ ਪੂਰੀ ਹੋਵੈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ॥ Naanak Sathigur Bhaettiai Pooree Hovai Jugath || O Nanak, meeting the True Guru, one comes to know the Perfect Way. ਹਸੰਦਿਆ ਖੇਲੰਦਿਆ ਪੈਨੰਦਿਆ ਖਾਵੰਦਿਆ ਵਿਚੇ ਹੋਵੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ॥੨॥ Hasandhiaa Khaelandhiaa Painandhiaa Khaavandhiaa Vichae Hovai Mukath ||2|| While laughing, playing, dressing and eating, he is liberated. ||2||

I thought the practice of Gurbani led to sat (truth), santokh (contentment) and gian (knowledge)? As well as anand (bliss) not stress and anxiety?

I hear that but we are a nit pickingly judgmental and competitive lot as a quom. It's just a shame that is doesn't lead to a raising of standards throughout our society (maybe we are just being b1tchy and petty, nothing else?) Yeah, the puerile Bollywood style music used with shabads these days don't help at all (these all come from India). The music has all the sophistication of a children's nursery rhyme. Or is this just me speaking from my own 'encultured' perspective. Hard to tell?

Okay, so it's fine as long as one doesn't enjoy the music. hhhhmmm okay...... That being said I found it pretty hard watching that vid sarbatdabhalla posted. Seemed really goofy.

Just out of interest, what if a Singh was really kudoo and went to fitness dance classes to lose weight, would this be 'unSikh'?

Something I've learnt since frequenting this website: Nothing and everything is sacred. As long as beadbi isn't taking place (is it?), I suppose it's their choice.

I think its okay.

Thing is, looking from outside in at our Panjabi-Sikh community (all of it, not just the bits you personally like/agree with), it must appear as if we are this group with not only distinct religious practices but also other cultural practices including folk music and dance. I think they are trying to emulate this? I would also venture a guess to say that that western hedonistic 'paradigm' still exists in them, so they don't actually see having fun through music/dance as morally/ethically wrong. I would imagine some of them probably see it as quite wholesome compared to what goes on in wider white society? Whatever the case, jumping on our own high horse when our own Panjabi based samaaj is wreaked with nasha, infanticide, caste, corruption etc. just seems a bit weak? Just an opinion. If you don't agree that's fine, just put your counterpoints across intelligently and respectfully please. No need to throw bricks at each other over this.

Again notice how Panjabis seem to invariably close their eyes to any negative truths they have to face about their own community.

Our religion is not against drinking, there is nothing against sikhi that lists alcohol as "evil." Its only intrepreted as such, by stating intoxicants are bad. just like an excessive amount of coffee is bad. (Note, i am not endorsing drinking alochol lol) Whereas in its listed in the Quran what is right and wrong. I agree with you though, Quran is not the nicest scripture in the world. Muslims dont believe in education of other faiths or philosophy. If you dont believe in the word of Allah, you are an "infidel". r> You ever notice how the strongest and staunch muslims are the ones that are poor living in Middle Eastern dictatorships where all they can read is the Quran? And you ever notice how the strongest Sikhs are in first wold countries where we read other philosophies and religions? Reading other philosophies and religions only makes the sggs seem more beautiful. you notice how most of the normal muslims are the ones living in the west who actually have gained alot of education and doubt their belief, while the sikhs who doubt their belief and give up on sikhi are the ones in Punjab, where they dont learn all that much. But I would refrain from stating that "God cant be evil." You really have no evidence or proof possible to make this assertion, but I agree with what your trying to say. Just something to notice though, that the muslims only believe in reading the Quran for all that is worthy and every other book is evil. I think they might be scared that theres actually other interesting philosophies out there worthy of recognition.

A muslims came too me and said to me 'Your religion is meant to believe in equality and you lot have Gurdwhara named after caste like Ramgharia and i end up saying to the muslim that your religion is meant to believe in equality as well so why do women have to cover themself head to to, and men dont, that is'nt equality. Also, if a man commits suicide he gets 72 virgens in Heaven and if a women commits suicide she dont get nothing that is not equality. Also muslims said to me that 'You arent allowed to drink alcohol and i said neither are you and your religion says if you go to heaven their will be rivers and rivers of alcohol for you to drink. I tell you straight the Quran was not written by God. The things the quran say are evil and god can't be evil Bhull Chuck Maaf Karni

Muslims would do "kurlee" after Kirtan because they said they had to wash their mouths after singing "kafir's" bani. only Gursikhs are and should be allowed to do Kirtan at such a holy place "Dithay Sabhay Thaav Nahin Tudh Jeheya" because only Gursikhs live their lives according to what they sing (Gurbani). Also, I think only Gursikhs should be allowed to sit behind Ragis not just anyone. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

But how is "sikh" an ethnicity? surely our ethnicity is "indian"? our religion is not based upon culture as mentioned above- i see religion and culture as two different things. when christians fill out this form they will not say theyre ethnicity is christianity- they would say english. just doesnt make sense to me... i see Sikhi as our religion, and "indian" as our, or at least my, ethnicity.

It is important to understand that the meaning of the term 'ethnic group', as we know it in general usage can be different to the legal meaning applied to the same term. The courts have found that we the Sikh community do indeed fit the criteria necessary to be classifed as a an ethnic group in the context of our legal status in this country. This is not an issue of identity or our culture per se but an issue of law. By filling in Sikh under the ethnic group section we are simply ensuring that the various ethnic minority laws of this nation are fulfilling their purpose of serving all ethnic groups fairly. By not having the category 'Sikh' listed among the rest of the ethnicities in the first place, the Govt. is contradicting what the Courts have found the law to be. Also, as far as I can remember Sant Jarnail Singh Ji once praised the judgment in Mandla v Dowell Lee that we are in fact a seperate ethnic group, however I may be remembering wrongly.

Yeah, Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Bhindranwale sent a message to the "parde likhe" that the English parliament not only recognized SIkhs a "vakhri kaum" but also a "vakhri nassal" Hope you guys get recognized. We did a similar thiing but i dont know if everyone put Sikh on our census in the US

I think there should be sikh gangs in every city, so they can protect our community; if u look at the paki's they have gangs, majority of gangs in the uk are muslim gangs which means they oppress other communities, the sikh youth nowadays aren't aware of the harsh realities which i blame their parents for, sikh boy's hardly dont know how to find, and the girls are checking the paki's and getting converted to islam, <banned word filter activated>'s that all about ??? singhs get terroised by muslims in birmingham (alum rock ) bradford etc, on eid n that sikh mans turbans get knocked off, and what do we do, nothing

Are we going to end up with a distinctly Panjabi flavored Sikhi and a gora flavored Sikhi in future? Or will we eventually merge? I think one way these guys have an advantage over us is a distinct lack of backwards pendu mentality like our lot with caste and female infanticide for example. But then they bring in stuff that many of us think is seriously off key, like gay Sikh weddings. I wonder if we will have exchange programs to experience how the other half live? If I was at that dancing to kirtan thing, I think I'd be seriously conflicted to say the least. It actually seemed like one of those old school raves where people were on ecstasy. lol But I do think we need to cheer up a bit as a quom. We can be a bit excessively serious sometimes. But then we have to watch out we don't become a bunch of clowns, which is already happening in the UK from what I've seen.

You are correct. No apologies needed.