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Looking everywhere these days from neighbours to friends we see kaljug trapping us everyday, so Id like to dedicate this post to a very special little Singh in my life. His only in his early years but Vaheguru his so blessed. Most of us are familiar with the screaming and misbehaviour of little children at Gurughar, when were trying to focus on Bani but these children are causing a distraction. Therefore I'm going to take this opportunity to talk about this particular Singh because even to myself his a inspiration even though his nearly 2 decades younger. When he was a baby in his very early days, as a family we would whisper 'Vaheguru' in his ear everytime he cried. This is was something I'd personally heard in katha so i informed his immediate family and with Guru je's kirpa it did so much kirpa on him. The katha mentioned how babies cry because they miss that connection they had with God whilst in the womb and that seems so true. As once he'd hear Vaheguru simran he'd stop crying. This in itself was amazing, especially as none of his family are Amrithari but yet thankfully they tried this technique. As he started walking and recognising where the Gurdwara was he started asking to be taken to Gurdwara sahib but if for whatever reason it wasn't possible he'd cry so much that his family would have no choice but to take him to get Guru je's dharshan As time went on his immediate family started coming closer to Sikhi because they could see his pyare for Sikhi. I can't even start to explain his knowledge especially for his age. All I can say is his so blessed by Vaheguru je it seems unreal, but those who talk with him see that straight away. He attends programs by sometimes bugging his parents to take him and will sit at the front until the end of divan and then will wait for Guru je to go to Sachkhand before going home. Cutest thing is when you ask why he feels he has to wait for Guru je to go Sachkand, he replies with "I have to say goodnight to Guru je". O Vaheguru je please bless us with more youngsters like him& keep him in chaldikala Even though iv been in his life since the day his born, his recent actions even left me in amazement. We were at Gurdwara attending a Sukhmani Sahib Paat. He saw a few cousins siting in a empty divan hall so he asked to be taken there. Once we got there the first thing he said was "is Guru je present?"..we had to assure him Mahraji wasn't there because he told these cousins they shouldnt sit in the divaan hall talking if Mahraji were present. This amazed all of us who were present because it see so much pyare from such a young child is amazing There's so much more but for now hope this inspires you as much as it's inspired myself Guru kirpa *****ps: sorry if this is in wrong section. Also more similar posts are up on : www.guptsinghni.wordpress.com ************

Having done significant research in the past, I am unable to fill in the following gaps. If sangat can clarify it would be much appreciated. In June 2004, around the anniversary of India's attack on Sri Harmandir Sahib Complex, former president of dgpc prehlad singh chadok thought it was wholly appropriate and essential to present a siropa and kirpan to the murderer of thousands of Sikhs, jagdish tytler. I would like to know: 1 why was the siropa and kirpan given? 2 what was the Sikhs reaction? 3 did prehlad beg maaf from any thakat sahib / has he been punished 4 what is prehlads current occupation? In December 2007 makkar gave a siropa to amitab bachchan and his family members (who said khoon ka badla khoon on door darshan tv, and at indira's funeral). I would like to know: 5 why was the siropa given 6 did makkar express any regret or beg maaf? 7 In any of the above incidents did panj singhs or any jathedar of panj thakat sahibs get involved or condemn this? **I understand siropa's have been presented to enemies of the khalsa in history, but for the time being I am only interested in these two incidences.

I think that's pretty cool, a Singh in the mounted police force. Nice one.

you r such F A G !!! i hate all ur posts which are always pointless and anti sikh and more hindu favorable. but its not ur fault. it is hard for most of indian/punjabi - sikhs the need for khalistan. The media there is also run by GOI and u never get to see facts whats happening there. I never knew anyting about all lower class treatment with Sikhs until I was there. U were not even sure once that u wanted to grow ur beard cuz u thought it wasnt looking cool. U were worried about how ur moustaches would look. U r such a pathetic person on this forum who always annoys me with rubbish stuff. But I would really like to thank you that you posted such a stupid topic and our great sikhsangat members cleared everything for all those who think like you. I learned even more things about why khalistan is must for Sikhs. I apologize to all SikhSanagt for being rude on him and I thought you guys put enough facts opposing him and all he needed was a little bit Hospitality. ohh np buddy!! you r very welcome!!! next time u need any seva just tell me straight!!!

Not sure if this is going to make sense but I shall ramble on a little. Think of a large field (metaphorically) and all of us souls are wondering about in it. We work through our karam, we create more karam, then we die and are reborn. Guru Ji looks over us but is not concerned as we have forgotten Him. We are engrossed in maya and in our daily lives that we do not have any time for our Guru, our father. If through His grace or through our karam or through our desire to get to know our Guru we start to remember him, then in a way, we come closer to an area in the field we can call Gurus-area. Guru Ji is now drawing us near to him, just as in the shabad – Charan saran gur ekh paindha jai chall, Satguru KOTE paindha agai hoi lath hey. Guru Ji is waiting for us with open arms all we need to do is take one step towards Him. If through His grace we enter Guru Jis-area then we become Guru Ji’s. Now Guru Ji looks after us properly, he looks over us, cares for us because we have now entered His domain. All the other souls wonder about doing their own thing, living and dying, living and dying. However, once you come into Guru’s-area then straight away you have certain restrictions put upon you – you cannot eat meat, you cannot drink alcohol, you cannot smoke, you do not go to pubs and clubs, you have to get up amritwella, you have to do your panj banies, you have to do more path and simran, there is a whole rafter of restrictions and orders because you are now under Guru Ji’s hukam. This is a good thing because you are now under Guru Jis care, He will look after you through thick and thin, He will never let you go, never let you drift off into bad company, you are a very fortunate person. With this you will face certain hardships and suffering, the more suffering you get – “ Dukh Daroo Sukh rogue pia “ – the more your path is being cleared, because ultimately Guru Ji wants you to travel along the path closer to Him and you can only so that if that path is clear of obstacle (bad karma). The others, those outside Guru Ji’s-area may experience happiness, good fortune, good business opportunities, but they are using up what they have previously sown, but do not sow anything for the future, so ultimately they are going down the wrong path , a path that will lead to suffering in the end. Sometimes you walk into a table and catch your toe on the corner, it is agony for a few moments, we may not realise it but maybe some big suffering we were to endure has just been worked through in those few moments. It is difficult when one is trying to follow Guru Ji’s path and you are met with obstacle and pain but you look around you and your friends and relatives are doing so well, but if you stick with Guru Ji then ultimately you are going to be the winner because this life is like a contest and we need to leave this life as winners, ie breaking through the circle of life and death.

people say that i should not speak rudely to older people.. but so many times i cant help it when some scholarly looking uncle or some uncle who thinks he knows it all starts saying bakwaas thats just utter bakwaas... about sant ji or about how 1984 wasnt a genocide?? i had an argument with this guy who said it cant be called a genocide cos it wasnt called a genocide before.. i mean dude... you cant change.. the facts!! OUR DESI PEOPLE cant argue intelligently they are so full ego that they dont admit it when they are wrong.. they start talking about xyz who they knew and start talking about the punn daan they have done in their lifetime for sikhi.. and think we should follow their footsteps!!!!!!!!! what makes it worse for them is when a FEMALE....+ YOUNGER is telling them something They dont listen!! they just dont!! and then my head starts hurting and i get frustrated i think the biggest problem we face in sikhi is not having UNITY!!!! they cant even feel the pain other sikhs feel!! they arent even happy to call it a genocide.. .they question sant ji when they know he wasnt wrong!!! conclusion: we will fall apart if we dont UNITE!!!!!!!!! so how do we unite?? kidnapping all those stubborn uncles and then trying to preach them would definitely fail because how can you tell someone when they are wrong when they arent even willing to understand!!

ਕਬੀਰ ਜੀ ਗਉੜੀ ॥ Gauree, Kabeer Jee: ਕਿਆ ਜਪੁ ਕਿਆ ਤਪੁ ਕਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਪੂਜਾ ॥ What use is chanting, and what use is penance, fasting or devotional worship, ਜਾ ਕੈ ਰਿਦੈ ਭਾਉ ਹੈ ਦੂਜਾ ॥੧॥ to one whose heart is filled with the love of duality? ||1|| ਰੇ ਜਨ ਮਨੁ ਮਾਧਉ ਸਿਉ ਲਾਈਐ ॥ O humble people, link your mind to the Lord. ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਨ ਚਤੁਰਭੁਜੁ ਪਾਈਐ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ Through cleverness, the four-armed Lord is not obtained. ||Pause|| ਪਰਹਰੁ ਲੋਭੁ ਅਰੁ ਲੋਕਾਚਾਰੁ ॥ Set aside your greed and worldly ways. ਪਰਹਰੁ ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ॥੨॥ Set aside sexual desire, anger and egotism. ||2|| ਕਰਮ ਕਰਤ ਬਧੇ ਅਹੰਮੇਵ ॥ Ritual practices bind people in egotism; ਮਿਲਿ ਪਾਥਰ ਕੀ ਕਰਹੀ ਸੇਵ ॥੩॥ meeting together, they worship stones. ||3|| ਕਹੁ ਕਬੀਰ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥ Says Kabeer, He is obtained only by devotional worship. ਭੋਲੇ ਭਾਇ ਮਿਲੇ ਰਘੁਰਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੬॥ Through innocent love, the Lord is met. ||4||6||

Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh The following sakhi is dedicated to Pyaare Veer Prabhjot Singh Ji and the other Gursikhs taking part in the Two Million Sri Mool Mantar Sahib Jaaps - One time Baba Raam Kishan Ji Sevapanthi was sat on his knees at the charankamal of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj with chenna (little bells) in his hands and tears in his eyes uttering, “Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji”. Babaji had been doing this for the whole day. Finally towards the end of the day at about 23:30hrs some Sikhs came to where Babaji was sat and said, “What are you doing? Don’t you realise that it’s time for Sukhaasan?” Babaji looked up at the sangat and humbly said, “Please forgive me, I was being greedy and only thinking of my Sukh”. As soon as Babaji said this he bowed before Guru Sahib and began to recite Sri Sohila Sahib Ji before taking Maharaj to Sachkhand. As he was doing this Babaji began to cry and utter “Nahi Choro”. Once Maharaj was placed on Sri Manji Sahib Babaji bowed before Guru Sahib and went to sleep on the floor continuing to say “Nahi Choro” again and again under his breath. After about 30 minutes Babaji woke up and performed the Prakash of Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. After being blessed with Guru Sahib’s hukamnama Babaji went and again sat at the charankamal of Guru Sahib and began to utter “Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji” whilst playing the chenna (little bells). In the morning some other sangat came to Babaji and said you keep uttering Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji Maharaj, can you really see Guru Nanak Dev Ji? Babaji smiled and simply looked toward Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj, the only true light in this very dark world. Loose translation from katha based on Sant Ghatta. Please share what you think we can learn from the above sakhi sangatji. Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh

This topic needs tere_chapad_mara.....

add 216 jaaps sewa,please!!! modnote: Waheguru waheguru Waheguru Dhanvaad Guru Pyaareo, jaaps have been added jeo

VaheGuru Jee, Please add 1400 Dhanvaad Jee modnote: Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Phenjeo your jaaps kamayee has been added!

Fateh jio Confidence is a problem for a lot of us...u can either choose to deal with it by being shy(not advised), or you can let the world see you as confident by having faith in yourself and mahraaj! A lot of ppl probably feel the same if they've not been in work for three years but it's never too late to make changes...u might also be feeling like this as u feel ur family are supporting u and u feel u need to be doing something with ur life... Basically as a sister,my advice would be to take on board the above, have faith in yourself rather than shy away, put yourself out there for work and any voluntary opportunities that will get u into a routine of getting out of the house, meeting new people,making new friends etc...even going and helping with some sewa at ur local Gurdwara....help out some of the aunties n uncles... It's rewarding and will give u things to do and keep ur mind off the confidence issue and it will fade And st every opportunity,listen to or recite chaupai sahib which will lift ur spirits-chardi kala...and do ardaas that waheguru helps u too...he will as waheguru always listens

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Sahib Jeo Maharaj, please accept the following jaaps by beloved Sangat for 12th June jeo: 50 by Kaljugi Veerji + 270 by 270*gupt Veerji + 2000 by Jaswinder Singh Veerji and his Singhni Ji + 108 Jaaps by Maata Ji Maharaj Jeo, nothing without you! Tuhi Tuhi!

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh. OK so today I was giving out parshaad, and when I do it I kinda let it drop into there hands (not to far above), since I don't like to touch people's hands and carry there juthe, as I give it out. Anyway as I'm giving, in the middle of the darbaar sahib and this comittee member "mona" starts complaining to me, saying you shouldn't drop parhsaad like that, I explained to him very kindly (and in a low voice, to not draw everyone in) about why I don't want to carry juthe and that's why I kinda let it fall into there hands, and he starts laughing IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DARBAR SAHIB (speaking in his full-tone voice) saying "I've been going to gurudwara for 40 years, I know" & starts laughing. Then I say to him, well every gurudwara I've been to, all the gursikhs avoid touching other people's hands, that's what I've noticed anyway, it makes sense so i try and do it. But it just annoys me, how in the middle of the darbar sahib just because he's part of the comittee, he think's he right, a "mona" starts saying I'm doing it wrong a "Dumala wala Singh", and when I explain to him about juthe, he says clearly "I DON'T CARE, this is how your supposed to do it I know I've been going for so many more years to Gurudwara than you, forget about the others", and starts laughing. (You hear me right, he said "forget about the others" referring to Gursikhs) I kept my self cool, and then carried on giving parshaad out. I was going to say "You been coming here 40 years, do you even understand 1 thing that is said in the Guru granth sahib, before even attempting to question me", but I didn't. Sorry I just had to tell someone, and vent my feelings. Who is right then, in the sense of giving out parshaad?? P.s. And at the end, as I was eating langar on the floor, he walked past me, I looked up at him and gave him a smile to try and be the better person "so he wouldn't hold a grudge " and he just turned his face away. P.s. not that it matters, but I'm 18, and he's probably in his "late 40's" / 50's

all i want to say is that its wrong to assume that you "dumalewala singh" is better than the mona next to you.. its not you with this problem lotta people have this problem including myself... we need to stop looking down at people because of their physical appearance... because you never know who is how much closer to gurujee yh he was wrong at yelling at you but sometimes people do wrong stufff without realizing dont let it bother you [

use soya meat substitute (egg free, from holland and barrett) to break the habit. And stop complaining about other people with better life blah blah. 80% of the world population don't know where their next meal is comming from. 100'000's live each day not knowing when they are going to be murdered, raped or tortured. you my friend are in the chosen 10% of the world population where you have the 3 most important wordly things: Food, Shelter and Safety. grab the opportunities Waheguru has given and make a change.

The right path is always the hard one and guru jis path Was never meant to be easy! Guru ji had to give up his four sons...thats not easy for a father to do...guru ji had to sacrifice his father guru tech Bahadur ji for the Hindu faith...that wasn't easy yet others lived lives of luxury. It's a test and u just got to decide what's the right path! Eating meat...ur turning you body into s burial ground for dead bodies..guru didn't create us for that reason..... Fact is..physical pain from illness or health problems hits us...but pain to our conscience is what should be steering ur life! Not physical stuff! U want to please ur guru n achieve ur goal...u know what u got to do...keep away from the poor animal corpses n not feed off them! Remain headstrong and fight whatever's telling u to join the club of meateaters! I hope waheguru shows u the right way

It is not an issue of saving and promoting Sikhi. it is an issue of Sikhs currently being treated like 3rd class citizens. In india COWs has more rights and are treated better then Sikhs. Nothing has changed since 1984, things have only got worse - which means there is a bigger need for khalistan now then there ever has been. It is wholly wrong for a Sikh to be against Khalistan on the bases that they fear what Hindus will do. It is paap to oppress others It is paap to live under opression it is paap to live under fear if hindus go on a murdering rampage yet again... Sikhs can not be blamed just because we want to live as equal citizens with basic human rights, dignity and respect.

Yes there are peaceful ways. Kosovo [serbia's country part] with the help of USA/UK NATO they've become independent. How many Sikhs have you petitioned for Khalistan? We can't defend our religions when the bahmans are infilterating Sikhi and wanting to eradicate it. Sikhs should be armed, how did they manage years of the Mughals when there were a few? Look at Egypt, Syria, Tunisia, Bahrain, Yemen, MILLIONS are on the streers sacraficing their lives for FREEDOM! LEARN FROM THEM IF NOT THE SIKH HISTORY! I'd fight myself if the movement began like in the Middle East!

LOL, you've been spending too much time with Hindus and watching too much Hindutva/Indian Television. Raaj bina na dharam chale hain dharam bina sab dalle malle hain ^ That should some it up for you.

I know, I over reacted a bit. But I tried to fix it at the end, by saying smiling at him & then saying "Goodbye" as I noticed he was leaving, to show there's nothing between us. Then he just turns his face the other way as I smile and before I even get a chance to speak, and walks of. I don't mind about the incident of the complaint, it's his opinion, it's just he did this rant in completely the wrong place & time.. C'mon, if you want to complain to me, at least do it after, while I'm not busy. But the question still remains? Should I be giving out parshaad how I am, or putting it into peoples hands?

You should have just said "Hanji Uncle Ji. Whatever you say", and just continued doing the seva. Mona or not, he was older than you. You should've just let him feel good about himself and you should have taken the higher ground. You know how these jokers like to impose themselves on the younger generation. Also, you seem to be awfully proud of your status as a Gursikh. Where's the humility? As much as you are correct about having chosen the correct path years before uncle ji, it's not becoming of a Sikh to have that kind of pride.

:waheguru: jaaps sewa 108 for 10th and 108 for 11th :waheguru: :waheguru: another 150 jaaps waheguru ji:):luv: modnote: Waheguru Waheguru Dhanvaad Guru Pyaareo, Jaaps have been added jeo :happy:

VaheGuru Jee, Please add 1300 Dhanvaad Jee modnote: Waheguru Waheguru Guru Pyaare Phenjeo, jaaps have been added jeo

Dhan Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jeo Maharaj, also added for 10th and 11 June are the following Jaaps seva by your children jeo: 4000 by Jaswinder Singh Veerji and his Singhni Ji + 100 by Kaljugi Veerji + 540 by 270*gupt Veerji + 500 other jaaps Jo Gurmukh Har Araadhdey Tinh Hau Kurbaana! Waheguru! :waheguru:

112 jaaps Vaheguru jio :D Twada daas hai modnote: Waheguru jeo jaaps have been added to the khajana jeo

Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa Brindrawale's own brother Captain Singh saw 5000 people take Amrit from Sant Ji (as part of the Panj Piyare) in 1 day! If we are given another leader like Sant Ji all we be in Chardi Kala! In the meantime, we could send in the White American and Russian Sikhs to bring the brown Punjabis back into their priceless Sikhi. Good luck to the real Christians and anyone who wants to join them. However, I have not seen anything in the above vidoes to suggest that all those starring on stage weren't simply the Pastor's own paid people. That also includes the lady in the second video who drags her feet, shakes, cries, and makes areoplane noises! It's nice to think of anyone joining any religion becuase they are inspired by it. But the cheap tricks like those above, to con people into a religion, are just plain sad!

Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jeo Maharaj, Nimaaneo Ke Maan, Nitaaneo Ke Taan Sache Pita Jeo, in your lotus feet are the following Jaaps seva by your children: 50 by Kaljugi Veerji + 2000 by Jaswinder Singh Veerji + His Singhni Ji + 270 by 270*gupt Veerji + 216 other Jaaps Main Taan Deeban Tu Hai Mere Swaami Main Tudh Aagey Ardaas Main Hor Thao Nahi Jiss Peh Karao Benanti Mera Dukh Sukh Tujh Hee Paas Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru Mehr Mehr Mehr Mehr we beg jeo, Kish Mehr Upavaho Dubde Pathar Taarey! Satgur Ki Seva Att Sukhaali! Waheguru!

Sant Samaj apart from Sant Baba Baljit Singh are with Badal

Yes Haram Singh Dhumma and Jasbir Singh Rode - so called Taksalis are openly supporting Badal in the elections as a thank you for changing the Nanakshahi Calendar - they're not even ashamed about it openly supporting him

How more sinister can you get by calling Amrit from the Punj Pyare false; unable to wash sin. Amrit from the Punj Pyare is Satguru's Naam. The Punj Pyare are full of Naam Simran. The Punj Banis that are read over the immortal nectar are full of Naam. I hope one day you wake up from your deep sleep and stop slandering the practices of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj.

But science has not looked at the cycle of birth and death. They say by our traits we evolved (became humans). Sikhi says by our deeds we evolved into humans. That is by trait that they act like animals. What about an athiest that acts like a human? That person will go back into the cycle of reincarnation as well. So are all monkeys waiting to become humans? Sikhi says by your deeds you climb out of reincarnation. Does Sikhi say all monkeys will get into the human life? Evolution speaks on triats, Sikhi says by deeds. If you don't find anything contradictory then you should answer my questions because they show the contradictory in Sikhi and evolution. Just because the english translation of Gurbani has the word evolution in it. That doesn't make Satguru is talking about evolution of what science describes. The five elements are evolving every second, but the soul is beyond the five elements and it is judged by the deeds. They surely lack Gurmat, but the evolution theory as currently can't explain many thing about reincarnation and contradict the cycle of birth and death.

No one is suggesting Waheguru can't do anything. This is a discussion on his creation. First the theory of evolution has to be accepted by Sikhi, then you can say the secret of evolution can't be explained. No one is saying it is simple. But the simple part of reincarnation shows evolution theory is wrong. God has made everything perfect as it is, so what is to be changed? God can do anything, but he made his creation perfect so why would he set forth evolution? Your understanding of Gurbani might be very limited, but you don't need to speak for others. Speak for yourself. Who made science the benchmark? Yes when people don't have answers to question they use this line. Only if Sant ji was around to hear Singhs sticking up for a theory that says humans came from monkeys and rejects, by your deeds you'll be judged.....he'd laugh till the monkey evolved......lol

You can clarify what you mean by rituals, regulations, rules etc.....as I asked you to clarify in my first post to you. It's not hard to figure out what I am asking you to clarify. It's time to stop acting like a child and ignoring the questions another asked from you. Learn how to discuss by answering others questions. Let's see what turns and twist you take to avoid the questions in your next post.

The smart person is you, who uses Gurbani to say Satguru's discipline (which you refer to as rituals, regulations, rules, and outer appearance) is false and that Satguru did not give us the discipline, but some false leaders made it up. Satguru's discipline (5 Kakkar among rest of the rehat) came from Naam. When you call the rehat of Satguru false, you are saying the Gurbani you present here is false. When Satguru blessed us with the outer appearance of 5 Kakkar, they were given by first putting Naam inside them (given by SAtguru and blessed by the Shabad). Even though in some parts you have completely twisted the meaning of the Shabad for you self-serving ways, but I'm take one intrepretation of your's and show your true intentions. naam ti-aag karay an kaaj. One who renounces the Naam and engages in other occupations, ..............(again it is mentioned outer forms, rules and regulations) This tuk is speaking about people getting too focused on worldly duties and forget the main duty of a person, which is Naam. Since the Khalsa Rehat, including outer appearance was given by Satguru, then this discipline already has Naam blessed in it. You can't use Satguru's Bani against their own practices. If you do want too, then renounce Shabad Guru as Guru and put yourself as a Guru. In your first post you come out and say Satguru never gave us the outer appearance: You say some leaders made up the symbols and external pratices. Show us which leaders made up these practices? Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj's first orders to bhai Mardana was to stop smoking and keep his hair uncut and this condition was put on Bhai Mardana and kept if he wanted to stay with Satguru. When a person makes a mistake and calls the rehat of Satguru false or misuses Gurbani to present their twisted thinking, then do you blame the rehat and Gurbani for the person's mistakes? When a person reads Gurbani and commits an act against the Shabad he/she read, then does that make the reading of Gurbani false? The Rehat and the Shabad Guru are true, but the human is to blame for their mistakes. Understanding of Gurmat comes when a person stops denying Satguru ji's practices and humbly bows down to the practices.

What reference are you looking for? Satguru gave us the Rehat from the Shabad Guru. Unless your like harsharan who denies that Satguru gave us the Rehat, then I can't help you. The discussion ends when a person can't accept Satguru's Rehat.

hsisingh, and Dal Singh, and West London Singh, At the risk of me being shot down in flames by all three of you... is there any chance you could add a post to this thread just to confirm that, as far as Sikhi and the Satkaar of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj is concerned, you all agree that Dudley is totally wrong in all his points on this thread, and that there is no excuse to consume Alcohol on Gurdwara related Premises? I am not saying this would make you best friends or anything. However, it would send that Dudley man a very clear message that none of you Sikhs agree with him supporting the disrespecting of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj! You don't have to make friends. Just put add your posts individually to send a clear message to that Dudley man! Otherwise, he will just get pleasure in knowing that he got 3 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj’s Sikhs to argue with each other! Let’s not give this Dudley man that pleasure!

To the above poster that ignores my questions and continues to call the 5 kakkar false. Here is a shabad by Satugur Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj praising the 5 element in the form of sword, gun, double edged sword, etc Next you will have the above poster saying shastar puja is wrong. Those that put their trust in Satguru, they don't call the 5 kakkar false.

Ask Mehtab Singh ji what he thinks of the Punj Kakkar and he'll never use Satguru's Bani against Satguru's practices (Punj Kakkar) like you have. Your attacking the practices of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj by using the same Satguru's Bani. You have no respect for Maharaj. There is no freedom in slandering Maharaj practices. What is there to disagree on. You can't call yourself a Sikh of Maharaj and then call the 5 Kakkar rituals. A person that doesn't really know about Sikhi can make the mistake, but a person like you is doing it deliberately on here. Tell me where in Satguru's Bani it says 5 kakkar are rituals? All you have done is taken Maharaj's Bani and intrepreted into what you believe Maharaj is pointing too. This means you are being biased to the point where your view don't even align with the practices of Sikhi (Gurmat taught by Satguru). The youtube video has the GURBANI of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj. This GURBANI is from Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. The Bani clearly states sword is a senior and here is the rehat of Satguru: Drih kys pwhul ibnw ByKI mUVw isK ] myrw drsn nwih iqs pwpI iqAwgy iBK ]5] dhharehi kaes paahul binaa bhaekhee moorraa sikh || maeraa dharasan naahi this paapee thiaagae bhikh ||5|| Those who keep their hair but do not get initiated are faithless sinners. They will never receive my blessing. Rehatnama Bhai Sahib Singh Jee http://sikhitothemax...Rehat.asp?ID=99 Do you see the blessing Satguru gives to those that take Amrit from the Punj Pyare, which are the form of Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj. The Bani says one thing and you intrepret it, into something you want people to believe and follow. Hence you want to become a Guru and don't follow Satguru. And you did not answer my questions at all. You avoided them every step of the way. Your sinister hidden views are being shown here now. If a Hindu comes on this forum and says the practices of Satguru are rituals, then i would say no different to him/her as i have said to you. The Khalsa Panth way of life is universal and doesn't deny anyone and if a person see otherwise, then their mind is closed and they don't have the knowledge to speak on the Khalsa Panth. The Khalsa Panth bows all command of Sri Waheguru ji Maharaj in the form of Gurbani and rehat. Here is what Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj says about following rehat. ਰਹਿਤ ਪਿਆਰੀ ਮੁਝ ਕਉ ਸਿੱਖ ਪਿਆਰਾ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ "More than a Sikh, dear to me is to follow the rules of the Sikh conduct." (Bhai Desa Singh Rehatnama) You reject and write against the role and duties the Punj Pyare were given by Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj and i'm going to be scolded! You have a very twisted view of reality. Here is more rehat of Satguru: "It is by the offering of your head that the Five Singhs administer AmritAnd you receive the boon of Amrit. The five narrate a discipline, Which is to be thought of at all times and never forgotten." (Rehatnama Bhai Desa Singh Jee) "The Khalsa - an Amritdharee disciplined Sikh is my true form, I am present in such Sikhs." Your Worship is of Akaal Purkh (the Timeless Lord). By living according to the Rehat, Guru Sahib will bless the individual and he says, http://www.damdamita...8&limitstart=13 Your a child with a keyboard. I don't take your words serious now. When a man is at the end and has nothing left to get their twisted and distorted views, then they look for any foolish arguement to get their point across. There was 10 Gurus, so did the Gurus who taught the Bani go wrong by being 10 of them? Seriously im laughing at you now.....lol Here i'll point out your distorted argument again. There is only one, but how come it says Mehl 1, Mehl 2, etc in Gurbani? You speak of Guru Nanak Dev ji and Guru Arjan Dev ji, but there is only one. I hope you get the point, but you'll twist, grind, distort, fill your remarks with hate toward the rehat (Khalsa) and write off your writing as Satguru's teachinges again. When a person reads Gurbani they look for ways to justify their lifestyle. When they find those shabads they don't understand the Gurbani as Gurbani, but add their twisted views to the Bani and run it off as Satguru's intrepretation. Then they use this intrepretation to call Satguru's practices false. The Punj Pyare live with the Bani of the Guru's. As long as there is Bani there will always be Punj Pyare. Satguru did not leave the Punj Pyare for 1699 only, but continued the practice, so every follower of Satguru can drink the immortal nectar (Amrit). Don't believe me! then read the above rehat from the Punj Pyare that Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj gave Amrit.

Kaam is one of the 5 deadliest enemies ( the others are: krodh, lobh, moh, ahankar ..... ninda, jalan, chuglee, jhoot, lalach, laziness...etc) that attack the soul without mercy. The mind uses them as tools to keep the soul imprisoned, apart from many other ways, along with Maya. The soul is being harrased, since it left it`s Father`s (Satnam ) house (Sach Khand ). It´s condition is very dreadfull, without any shore or anchor to lean on, there is no thaao. Constantly roaming in the wheel of Chaurasee Ka Chakar. And for that, we alone are to be blamed, we do not listen nor pay attention to the real teachings of our Gurus`. When our first Guru came on earth; orthodox practices were common in those days, would be better said, even before.....up to nowdays. While they are, they remove our agyanta, our prejudices, our manmukhta, our outer or external practices, which are futile in results, and are just like smoke, no reality in it, they ( our Gurus) show us the realty, by attaching us to their Nij Roop, Nam or Shabad. Since they left us, we have been manipulated, our reasoning power has been extirpated, by the so board members, the Truth they made us know, has been darkened with their poisnous behaviour, they have spread poison everywhere and in almost all. These members have politizied the real sikhee, but we understanding the teachings of the Gurus`, it seems that, all is the fantasy of these leaders, I personally do not believe what they say, that our Patshah Guru Gobind Singh said. We can see it by ourselves, reading and understanding the Bani of the previous Gurus`, is simialr, there are no such external practices, politics, rules, regulations, they taught that Nam and Shabd is everything. Nobody can take the place of a real Satguru. After all, these leaders, at most what can they offer is only what thay have, and they may have everything, but not the love and essence of Nam, and this void has to be filled with something, so they fill it with symbols, and external practices. It is a pity, that Sikhee is such a noble, and a beautiful summary of some of Wahiguru`s virtues, grace, daya, meher, inmensity, truth, bakshish.... and that all this, has been reduced and polluted, between the four walls of rules and regulations, then zaat, paat, land, rituals, rites, dogmas...etc. This is the pitiful and hopeless situation of mankind in general, but here we refer to our sikh brothers and sisters, with whom we are concerned. There is nothing wrong in following the customs and traditions in the dharam whre one is born, but we should be not so blinded with them, that we loose the truth out of our sight. I know, many will be hating me, when reading this, but my love for Wahiguru, and for the truth, and then for all the mankind, which has the ray of divinity in each individual, has propelled me in writing this, all the four corners of the existence has the right in knowing the realty of Wahiguru Akal Purukh in the real measure. And all this, what has been said, is based just from the bani, for that purpose some lines are been given as proofs, of that truth, which our Gurus showered on the mankind equally on everybody without any distinctions: ਬਿਨੁ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਨਾਉ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਕਿਆ ਸੁਆਉ ॥ bin sathigur naao n paaeeai bin naavai kiaa suaao || Without the True Guru, the Name is not obtained. Without the Name, what is the use of it all? ਆਇ ਗਇਆ ਪਛੁਤਾਵਣਾ ਜਿਉ ਸੁੰਞੈ ਘਰਿ ਕਾਉ ॥੩॥ aae gaeiaa pashhuthaavanaa jio sunnjai ghar kaao ||3|| People come and go, regretting and repenting, like crows in a deserted house. ||3| ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਦੁਖੁ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਜਿਉ ਕਲਰ ਕੀ ਭੀਤਿ ॥ bin naavai dhukh dhaehuree jio kalar kee bheeth || Without the Name, the body suffers in pain; it crumbles like a wall of sand. ਤਬ ਲਗੁ ਮਹਲੁ ਨ ਪਾਈਐ ਜਬ ਲਗੁ ਸਾਚੁ ਨ ਚੀਤਿ ॥ thab lag mehal n paaeeai jab lag saach n cheeth || As long as Truth does not enter into the consciousness, the Mansion of the Lord's Presence is not found. ਸਬਦਿ ਰਪੈ ਘਰੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੀ ਪਦੁ ਨੀਤਿ ॥੪॥ sabadh rapai ghar paaeeai nirabaanee padh neeth ||4|| Attuned to the Shabad, we enter our home, and obtain the Eternal State of Nirvaanaa. ||4|| ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਸੋ ਮਰਿ ਰਹੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਦੂਜੀ ਵਾਰ ॥ sabadh marai so mar rehai fir marai n dhoojee vaar || One who dies in the Shabad is beyond death, and shall never die again. ਸਬਦੈ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੇ ਲਗੈ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥ sabadhai hee thae paaeeai har naamae lagai piaar || Through the Shabad, we find Him, and embrace love for the Name of the Lord. ਬਿਨੁ ਸਬਦੈ ਜਗੁ ਭੂਲਾ ਫਿਰੈ ਮਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਵਾਰੋ ਵਾਰ ॥੭॥ bin sabadhai jag bhoolaa firai mar janamai vaaro vaar ||7|| Without the Shabad, the world is deceived; it dies and is reborn, over and over again. ||7 ਮਨ ਰੇ ਰਾਮ ਜਪਹੁ ਸੁਖੁ ਹੋਇ ॥ man rae raam japahu sukh hoe || O mind, meditate on the Lord, and find peace. ਸਬਦੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਰਵਿ ਰਹੈ ਨਾ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਾਲੁ ਸੰਤਾਇ ॥ sabadh pashhaanai rav rehai naa this kaal santhaae || One who recognizes the Shabad merges into it, and is not afflicted by death. aapay nirmal pooj karaa-ay gur sabdee thaa-ay paa-ee. ||9|| The Immaculate Lord Himself inspires worship of Him; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, it is accepted and approved. ||9|| poojaa karahi par biDh nahee jaaneh doojai bhaa-ay mal laa-ee. ||10|| Those who worship Him, but do not know the Way, are polluted with the love of duality. ||10|| jin antar sabad aap pachhaaneh gat mit tin hee paa-ee. ||15|| Those who have the Shabad deep within, understand themselves; they find the way of salvation. ||15|| ayhu manoo-aa sunn samaaDh lagaavai jotee jot milaa-ee. ||16|| Their minds enter into the deepest state of Samaadhi, and their light is absorbed into the Light. ||16|| sun sun gurmukh naam vakaaneh satsangat maylaa-ee. ||17|| The Gurmukhs listen constantly to the Naam, and chant it in the True Congregation. ||17|| saachee banee sach vakhaanai sach naam liv laa-ee. ||19|| True are their words; they speak only the Truth; they lovingly focus on the True Name. ||19|| saachee banee sach vakhaanai sach naam liv laa-ee. ||19|| True are their words; they speak only the Truth; they lovingly focus on the True Name. ||19|| gur poorai har naam dirhaa-i-aa har nihchal har Dhan palai jee-o. ||2|| The Perfect Guru has implanted the Lord's Name within me. I have the Imperishable Treasure of the Lord in my lap. ||2|| har jee-o kirpaa karahu gur maylhu jan naanak har Dhan palai jee-o. ||4||1|| O Dear Lord, please show Mercy to me, that I may meet the Guru. Servant Nanak gathers the Wealth of the Lord's Name in his lap. ||4||1|| 109 Page 43 Line 15 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev dhhandhhaa sabh jalaae kai gur naam dheeaa sach suaao || All my evil pursuits have been burnt away; the Guru has blessed me with the Naam, the true object of life. 118 Page 46 Line 8 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev sach mehal ghar paaeiaa gur kaa sabadh pashhaan ||3|| I have obtained my home in the True Mansion of His Presence, realizing the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ||3|| 119 Page 46 Line 10 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev pooraa sathigur jae milai paaeeai sabadh nidhhaan || If we meet the Perfect True Guru, we obtain the Treasure of the Shabad. 125 Page 50 Line 2 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev naam nidhhaan sathigur dheeaa sukh naanak man mehi mandd ||4||20||90|| The True Guru has bestowed the Treasure of the Naam, the Name of the Lord. O Nanak, the mind is filled with peace. ||4||20||90|| 128 Page 51 Line 7 Raag Sriraag: Guru Arjan Dev sanch har dhhan pooj sathigur shhodd sagal vikaar || Gather in the Wealth of the Lord, worship the True Guru, and give up all your corrupt ways. 147 Page 58 Line 3 Raag Sriraag: Guru Nanak Dev bin sathigur naao n paaeeai bin naavai kiaa suaao || Without the True Guru, the Name is not obtained. Without the Name, what is the use of it all? These are just few sample lines from the bani, as we can see only importance of WAHIGURU as objective, through Nam and Shabad are written on each parragraph, on each page, and then too we are so manmukhs that we fail to see the truth in them. Mind is always fond of sensual pleasures, so unless we give it the taste, of something superior and everlasting taste, like Nam....it will never give up it`s bad habits. So Nam is the truth which our Gurus taught as remedy for fighting the mind and these vices, and also Nam is the only vehicle for returning our true real Home Sach Khand, anything apart from this is wasting our precious time.

Why even talk of Khalistan at this point? There are so many other pressing issues to focus on. Always keep it on your hearts, but at this point in time it really should not be at the forefront of our community/kaum. I feel this brainwashing of youth to develop nothing but hate is also a step in the wrong direction. If khalistan was given to us tomorrow, why do I get the feeling we would be like..uhh now what? And within 6 months we would be fighting for a free Khalistan from whoever is the currently in control. Never forget the sacrifices and our right for independance, but our time/money/focus should be spent elsewhere.