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This may be off-topic, but it's in response to this repetitive recent argument being put forward (also raised by Dalbir Singh above) regarding Sehajdharis/Monay and the Anand Karaj. It is evident that the kalyugi evolution of the Sikhs as a community has meant some erosion, degradation and lack of acceptance of many Sikh values specifically the outer roop. The mona/patit does now make up a disproportionate majority in the community. There’s no denying this is a massive issue and the battle against patit-pauna is on top of the agenda of the Sikh Nation. Nevertheless, the Panthic accepted Rehit Maryada gives the definition of a Sikh as per below, ironically this definition dates back to early 20th Century (with consultation of the major bodies at the time including Sant Samaj, nirmalay) and ensured the Sikh nation encompassed the diversity which existed even back then. This means that an individual with the beliefs below is a Sikh regardless of being a sehajdhari/mona or keshdhari. This is not in anyway undermining the journey to being an amritdhari Khalsa which as point (v) states is the expectation of anyone who classifies themselves as Sikh. As per Sikh Reht Maryada, Section One, Chapter 1 The Definition of Sikh : Article I Any human being who faithfully believes in i. One Immortal Being, ii. Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Sahib to Guru Gobind Singh Sahib, iii. The Guru Granth Sahib, iv. The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and v. the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh Whilst I also cringe at the abuse of the Anand Karaj by standard Sikh families who rush into the Gurdwara to rush out to enjoy the booze-up/kanjarpauna later, that is the fault and responsibility of all of us (particularly the local Amritdhari Gursikhs) for not ensuring the implementation of Satkaar in their local Gurdwaras. Also the mona born into a Sikh family has to possess an understanding of their legacy and obligation, that’s again the responsibility of local Gursikhs and Gurdwaras in terms of the mentoring programmes and parchaar. It’s now time to follow in the footsteps of Gurdwaras like those in Luton and Derby who have robust Anand Karaj protocols and follow a system of consultations with the couple and the families to ensure the satkaar of the Anand Karaj is maintained. When a white or black man/woman walks in the Gurdwara tomorrow and expresses a desire to follow Sikhi then we will always be supportive in their journey and step up to guiding them and that’s what the majority of us Sikhs will always do.

look at your previous post about periods and comparing them to urine. Would you say to mai bhago that for a certain amount of days a month she wasnt pure would you say that to bibi nanaki etc now you say u feel hurt by comments about being naive but you think its fine to call my sisters/mothers dirty! hypocrite!

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa || Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh || A(n)mrith Peevai Jis No Aap Peeaaeae || They alone drink in this Amrit, whom the Lord Himself inspires to do so. Amritsar Prison, Thursday 28th June 2012, a historic and profound event took place in the walls of this jail: an Amrit Sanchaar – Sikh Baptism ceremony – was held for the very first time within the confines of the prison. A total of 38 individuals, 35 men (Singhs – Lions) and 3 women (Kaurs – Princesses), arose in unity to illuminate a place as dark as a prison to tread a path of righteousness and join the Khalsa Panth (Sikh nation). The newly initiated had been inspired by the Parchaar (preaching) practiced by Bhai Pal Singh, a French citizen who has himself been physically tortured and illegally detained since July 2010, whose simple yet highly eloquent messages of “refrain from all drugs, honour women, and educate yourself” resonated with both the prisoners and wardens alike. The Jail Superintendent and his fellow staff being so impressed by both the lifestyle (click on this link for previous a press release of Bhai Sahib and his prison diaries), and loving devotion to fighting social injustices commented: “I have seen many who have come through the prison claiming to be Sants (saints)… THIS here is the FIRST REAL one.” After the ceremony Bhai Pal Singh was permitted to give a speech where they reemphasised their message as well as encouraging more prisoners to give up on their misguided ways and to step forward with a “clear” record and live a more fulfilling, devoted and commendable life. SOPW is amazed at the effect Bhai Pal Singh is having in such a short and restricted time period within the prison. The Chairman of SOPW, Bhai Balbir Singh Bains, recalls a short conversation a few months into Bhai Pal Singh’s incarceration, “Bhai Pal Singh felt that it was almost a divine calling from Waheguru (God) for them to be sent to prison. Whereas before they were at liberty to go village to village spreading a positive message amongst the people’s, it was time for them to deliver these messages where it was needed most, where nobody goes: prison.” SOPW is humbled at the support of the Sangat (congregation, donors) for their support and blessings. Bhai Pal Singh has also received many post cards as part of the “Postcard Appeal” and have written to many school children from around the world. We wish to encourage everyone to continue such morale-boosting support. If you wish to donate to any of the projects or volunteer your time, please visit / email: www.JustGiving.com/SOPW/Donate and info@prisonerwelfare.com Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa || Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

It is not beadbi to marry a 'white person' or anyone of any race, and neither is it a 'problem'. The only problem and beadbi is someone non sikh or not willing to accept sikhi attempting to take part in the anand karaj ceremony. I'll say it again, nowhere in Sikhi, not in any scripture or any present day authority such as Akal Takht, is there a ban on marriage between people of different races, the only ban is on a person not of the Sikh faith wanting to take part in the Sikh ceremony to get married! In line with this there has never been and never will be any protest against any anand karaj because of the race of any of the parties! I don't know what motive you have in trying to make us sikh community look racist, troublemaker. if the guy getting married has agreed to accept sikhi and add singh to his name, then according to akal takht there is no problem at all.

vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh Very apt topic which is increasingly relevant nowadays. I would say that although emphasis has been placed on physical disrespect, many other forms of disrespect are rife and because of their subtlety, often harder to combat. I would hope that my brother above would alter his derisive response if he knew he was speaking in the presence of any Kaur in one of the aforementioned situations. I would also say, that disrespect is not just a problem between Singhs and Kaurs, but between all brothers and sisters, as this forum too often shows us. vaheguru ji ka khalsa vaheguru ji ki fateh

so the message of you rather lengthy posting is that a man will put on an act to sleep with a woman and not all people are as they may appear to be.....tell us something new.

There's been so much discussion and proposals over the last week, and many people have referred back to rehtname and ithias for answers. This is all very positive because this ceremony had widely been accepted as a ritual available to almost anyone without much in terms of prerequisites. In terms of striking a balance, this is going to be very very difficult for Akal thakt to implement in black and white. It essentially comes down to the individual/Gurdwara/jatha responsible for booking the wedding. Very similar to up keeping the Sanctity of amrit Sanchar. Some institution's are willing to give an individual amrit with very little questions, background or judgement of their commitment. Whilst others are very firm and 5 pyaareh require serious history of commitment. it's not going to be black and white.. but at least we're acknowledging that Anand Karaj's sanctity must be preserved.

There is no certainty in life but only true certainty in life is - death. Death is parbal shakti everyone have to give up their body and all things which one does when death comes. Moment of death is very important as gurbani says: As gurbani says: (n)th kaal jo lashhamee simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai || At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts, sarap jon val val aoutharai ||1|| shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1|| aree baaee gobidh naam math beesarai || rehaao || O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause|| a(n)th kaal jo eisathree simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai || At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts, baesavaa jon val val aoutharai ||2|| shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2|| a(n)th kaal jo larrikae simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai || At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts, sookar jon val val aoutharai ||3|| shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3|| a(n)th kaal jo ma(n)dhar simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai || At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts, praeth jon val val aoutharai ||4|| shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4|| a(n)th kaal naaraaein simarai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae marai || At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts, badhath thilochan thae nar mukathaa peetha(n)bar vaa kae ridhai basai ||5||2|| says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2|| I was listening to gurbani katha on sukhmani sahib by sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale. He made very interesting ishara(indiction). I think we should all ponder upon what he meant.Sant gyani gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale mentioned during katha of sargun nirgun nirankar asthpadi that, anyone who is dying or final stage of dying, its recommended to recite sargun nirgun asthpadhi. I think there is deep secret behind baba ji ishara/ramaz. http://www.srigranth...id=13279#l13279 Just amazing amazing amazing katha on sargun nirgun nirankar asthapadi..everyone must listen to this..link below in the post!! Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji does apaar kirpa . Guru Maharaj ji, just summarize the whole journey of sargun folding back in nirgun and that its actually one (advait) its all one (both nirgun and sargun), in this asthapadi Although, we can never fully decipher bhramgyani ramaz on this. We can get some what of an idea of what sant ji is pointing towards that at moment of death in this context. It appear sant ji is indirectly via ishara/ramaz saying, at the moment of death recite this ashtpadi or shalok atleast so just may be just may be- person who is dying can get their surti which is and dual(dvait), can attached* with sargun and nirgun flow and merge it's surti in nirgun advait(ONE) chaitan vahiguroo ( sargun + nirgun + sun samadhi) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *Gyan Parloa - destruction of dvait(duality) of an individual(antish karan) by merging into nirgun advait(ONE) chaitan vahiguroo ( sargun + nirgun + sun samadhi) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

vaheguru vaheguru...Gyani Ji's katha is like amrit for jagiaso jeevs. our panth would be so much wiser if we appreciated this tye of gyan-bharpoor katha. just amazing.

You didn't answer my questions on the previous page bro. Sahajdhari and those who cut their hair do believe Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their Guru though, we are no one to say otherwise. Someone who is a non-Sikh (doesn't believe in Guru Granth Sahib Ji as their Guru) bows down to Guru Sahib and part-takes in Anand Karaj for what reason? There has to be a line drawn and it's when someone clearly isn't a Sikh. Do you think in days of old Sikhs would allow a Mussalman or Hindu to marry under Anand Karaj if they didn't believe in it? It has nothing to do with race or hate, it just has to do with belief system. They have been occurring for some years now, but it doesn't make it right. If a kid has secretly been taking cookies from a cookie jar he isn't supposed to take, it doesn't make it right that he's been doing it for a long time, now does it?

LOL Good friend Allah is explained in gurbani as well ਕਲਿ ਮਹਿ ਬੇਦੁ ਅਥਰਬਣੁ ਹੂਆ ਨਾਉ ਖੁਦਾਈ ਅਲਹੁ ਭਇਆ ॥ कलि महि बेदु अथरबणु हूआ नाउ खुदाई अलहु भइआ ॥ Kal mėh beḏ atharbaṇ hū▫ā nā▫o kẖuḏā▫ī alhu bẖa▫i▫ā. In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God. ਨੀਲ ਬਸਤ੍ਰ ਲੇ ਕਪੜੇ ਪਹਿਰੇ ਤੁਰਕ ਪਠਾਣੀ ਅਮਲੁ ਕੀਆ ॥ नील बसत्र ले कपड़े पहिरे तुरक पठाणी अमलु कीआ ॥ Nīl basṯar le kapṛe pahire ṯurak paṯẖāṇī amal kī▫ā. Men began to wear blue robes and garments; Turks and Pat'haans assumed power. SGGS Guru Nanak Dev Ji ANG 470 Sikhi explains this better something older traditions differed from and failed to explain. Allah is another term for indra there is more depths to this since vedism is dead these days it's difficult to explain. Now as for Allah from Islam with muhammad the prophet where did he get allah from? Muhammad was an arabian pagan he took the name from one of the gods in the kabbah temple of which there were 360 he took only one so to be inclusive with jews and christians of his time. We have history to prove the kabbah for the pagans was a hindu temple in ancient times there is much studies done to prove. Allah is a pagan god which is mentioned in the vedas, guru nanak dev ji was a highly studied into the vedas. If you reject allah totally then you reject a big piece of sikhism which is incorporated into gurbani which hasn't been explained well. "On Allah: Allah is the expression of the Vedic form of Brahman as Varuna-Rudra, the Divine merciful one and judge supreme. He is later known as Mahakala and Kala Bhairava in later Hinduism. Allah comes from "Ila / Ile" meaning "To Invoke" (Rig Ved.I.1.1). In older times, Allah was worshipped through fire and sacrifices, hence the name. Muslims as devotees of Allah are hence invokers. Al-Illah is "Agnim Ile", the first words of the Rig Veda, "I invoke Agni (Inner Guide)". Allah possesses many forms (names as attributes) in the Vedas, as per his own qualities. Soma is the sumna (grace) of Allah; Rudra is his wrath (krodha) and Varuna is his law (rta, dharma) and Mitra is his love and friendship (prema, sakha). Mitra-Varuna is Allah who forgives us for transgressing his laws (I.24.14, II.28.9; V.85.8, VII.86.5, X.97.16), as his is our beloved one (priya). Hence, the idea of forgiveness of sins in the Judeo-Christian tradition originates in the Vedic bhakti hymns of the Rig Veda (along with terms tarane, tara etc. as saviour, deliverer etc., pita, mata, sakha, mitra, priya, putra etc.). Indra-Varuna represents his Supreme Form as the All-God or Highest form, like later Parashiva or equal to Vedic Rudra, the primeval father. Mitra-Varuna, the Samrajas (World Kings) are the true form of Allah and his origin. Varuna is also Brahma, the Creator-God who has four faces (V.48.5). Indra-Varuna is the creator of all beings (VII.82.5). VII.82.5 also states Mitra waits upon Varuna, so is much like his prophet, Seer or son. Like Jesus-Muhammad etc. X.37.1 states that Surya (Sun) is the Eye of Mitra and Varuna. He is the banner (ketu) of the Gods. It was through the mental power of the Gods that Surya was created (VIII.76.1). Surya or Savitar as the Sun is also Prajapati, Twashtar, Vishwakarma or Dhatar, as the Cosmic Creator form of Mitra-Varuna or Indra-Varuna." Muhammad took a diety which wasn't his, now for us we know muhammad wasn't a prophet guru nanak declared that already in janamsakhis, in sggs you will never find muhammad mentioned. As for manipulation of this you should blame sikhs who don't educate there children the religion, some feel religion shouldn't be educated so there children get manipulated easily. Muhammad plagarised that's all.

well done for coming up with the classic chestnut line. If a sikh knows nothing bowt the whole khalistan issue, hes considered a coconut, if a sikh wud rather b with india, then hes considered a sellout (which they are) and if sikhs shout for khalistan, they get taunted with "r u gonna go there n fight", u jus cant win. Well my answer 2 ur question is, yes! im not married, grew up in a rough area, so i would like 2 think so. also u say khalistan wont happen, well who thought during the 1980's, mazboot yugoslavia wud break up? considering the combined states within it had 4th strongest army in the world. 10 years later, slovenia, croatia, bosnia n serbia etc broke into their respective ethnic nations. Who would of thought the powerful, shot callin, soviet union would break up? who would of thought that 20-30 yrs after the sikhs had the big holocaust in 1800's @ the hands of the afghans, that we wud wrestle panjab off them and establish sikhs as rulers of lahore? Too many lives have been lost in the 70s/80s/90s and too much lahoo/blood has been spilt to turn back now. 500,000 Sarbat khalsa in 1986 anounced that its khalistan thats been declared as the aim of our kaum at akal takht for the future.

Seriously? OMG , I guess you don´t even understand Sikhi ! All on this planet is "Jutha" that our Guru ji´s tried to explain the Brahmins etc.. Water is Jutha because there are fish in it - Air is Jutha because we all breath it ! There isn´t something with Jutha! The hell ,you got a brain from Waheguru use it! And don´t follow ritualistic things! God damn she is your daughter! Which direcition our Sikhi has gone... I am so sad...

A small attempt at translating the above sakhi: ----- Guru Arjan Dev Ji was 18 years when he was given Gurgaddi. From far and wide sangat left their homes to have darshan of Guru Sahib. Sangat from Kabul also left their homes for darshan. Every evening they would rest and next morning they would do ardas and continue with their journey. They decided that on reaching Darbar Sahib, first they would go for darshan and then eat parshade. It had become very dark by the time the sangat reached Gurudwara Peepli Sahib( which is made in remembrance of Guru Arjan Dev Ji). They thought that now it would be impossible to have darshan of Guru Sahib. So thenthey decided to rest there without eating anything (as they had decided not to until they have darshan). Meanwhile, Guru Arjan Dev Ji went to the palace and called out to Mata Ganga Ji, “Ganga Ji parshada tyaar karo ”. Mata Ji replied, “Gareeb Niwaj hukum deyo jinneya da vi parshada tyaar karna hai mai hune tyaar karva dendi ha ”. Sache Patshaah Ji said, “Nahi Ganga Ji aj sanu Guru Nanak de bacheya di sewa da sunehra mauka mileya hai. Aj sewa tussi aap karo.” Mata Ganga Ji then prepared the parshade herself. Guru Sahib and Mata Ji then walked carrying the parshade with them, to where the sangat were resting. On reaching there, Guru Sahib called, “Jathedar Sahib Guru da langar aeya hai.” Old men, women and children lay empty stomach. On hearing about Guru da langar they all woke up. On having langar they were all satisfied. As they were very tired, one elderly sangat lay down and began pressing his own feet. On seeing this Guru Sahib Ji went to him and with folded hands requested him "Baba Ji menu eh sewa bakhsh deo". Then Guru Sahib began doing the sewa of the old man himself. All night he kept doing the sewa of the sangata. Next morning the sangat did ardas and began walking towards Harmandir Sahib and kept reciting shabads on the way. Guru Sahib Ji also walked along with them. On reaching Harmandar Sahib, the sangat removed their shoes and put them aside with their belongings. Jathedar Sahib asked one of the sangat to take care of the shoes. The sangat with folded hands said “Jathedar Sahib, kinne din ho gae hann chale paaeya nu. Menu Guru Nanak de darshan to kio vaanjha karde ho.” Then Guru Arjan Dev Ji stood with his hazuriya and with folded hands requested the Jathedar Ji, “Eh sewa iss gareeb nu bakhash deo”. He was very happy and allowed Guru Sahib to take care of the joreh and walked ahead with the sangat. On going inside, they noticed that Guru Sahib Ji was not at His aasan. They went to ask Baba Budha Ji, “Sahib kithey hann?”. Baba Ji replied “ Kabul to sangat turi si, unna vaste kal parshade laeke gae hann par aje takk parte nahi hann”. Jathedar Ji then replied, “Kabul di sangat ta assi ha. Kal ik gabhru ja aaeya si. Usde naal usdi gharwali vi si te oh sade vaste parshada vi laeke aae si. “ Baba Ji then asked where have you left them and come? Jathedar Ji replied “Ji joreya di raakhi vaste”. Baba Budha Ji got up and sangat went along with him. And then they see that Panjve Patshaah Guru Arjan Dev Ji is doing the sewa of sangat’s joreh. With such love and devotion was Guru Sahib doing sewa that He never noticed when they came. Baba Budha Ji and all the sangat began crying profusely and asked “Sache Paatshah eh tussi ki kar rahe ho?” Guru Arjan Dev Ji had deep respect for Baba Budha Ji and answered, “Baba Budha Ji menu Guru Nanak de bacheya di sewa karan to na roko. Menu inna de jore saaf karan to na roko. “ The sangat began crying even more.. Jis Guru Nanak de darshan karan vaste ture si. Jisde charna di chuh prapat karni si. Jisde charana di dhur mastak te laeni si. Aj ki dekh rahe hann ki uh Guru Nanak sade jore saaf kar rahe hann. Oh saari raat sadi sewa karda reha hai. The sangat kept crying and wondering who our Guru Nanak is.. who’s very roop is all humility and gareebi...Today he is blessing us with the data of nirmarta and gareebi..

You can't be serious, it's unfortunate how Sikhi has become so dogmatic that THIS is an actual thread. :umm:

Come on, are you being serious? You can wear whatever colour you want to. Honestly some of the questions asked on here are ridiculous.

If your mind is so easily swayed by colors, then you have a weak mind. The blood pumping through our bodies is red, so I guess that means we are all going to hell. Not that we believe in hell anyways, but that's a different topic. No offense intended. Stating my opinion. Bhul chuk maaf.

BHAI SAHIB JI DONT LEAVE, WE NEED GOOD PEOPLE HERE.

Lordy, lordy, lordy me! It makes sense. :lol2: From now on everytime I see someone with jeans falling down their backside I'll run a mile in the opposite direction.

If the girl has postive experiences of her Dad and Brother wearing turbans then she's more likely to be attracted to a boy who has a turban. If her Dad and Brothers are monay, then she's highly likely to be attaracted to a monay boy. If here Dad and Brother wear turbans, but are plonkers, then she'll probably not want to marry a boy who wears a turban. The issue is deeper than the girls vanity, some of it may be based on a lame collective portrayal of the modern male Sikh image by modern male Sikhs themselves. Saying that, I know a few girls from complete non-Gursikh backgrounds who married Singhs because they admired the inner and outher qualities of the Sikh roop.