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I do not belong to that group either. Bhai Randhir Singh was a great gursikh and being a gursikh he is my elder brother. Therefore, a Sikh must listen to what an elder brother has to say on the subject. You may disagree with him but his research of Gurbani must be refuted based on rationality not by categorizing him in a group. By your logic one can denounce Taksal’s interpretation just because it comes from Taksal. This is absurd. Have you even read his books? If you do not personally like him then read Pandit Kartar Singh Dakha’s refutations to Hindu Arya Samajists. You are only hurting yourself by keeping away from Gurbani grammar. Guru Rakha

To OP Don't listen to these jokers. Just try and think of the opposite sex as sisters and mothers.

All the above is relevant advice, particularly the not giving 'importance' to interrupting thoughts. When a distraction enters the mind... smile. It's there because it is a personal experience (something you saw, heard, felt). Don't feel upset/panicked/worried/depressed, understand that your present action (bhagti) is the answer to ensuring that all experiences here on, are pavitar. It's usually the hurt of stress/bad experience that brings us to remember Vaheguru. Acknowledge it, relax and it will swiftly pass by. Fight to remove it... and it will stay (even if in a subtle form). Rather than risk your simran being interrupted, prepare the focus/concentration before hand, this is what Sant advise, and it works. Never go straight to simran (until you are accomplished). Always start with a Japji Sahib (full dhyaan, said aloud with correct ucharan). The focus on each word, it's arthh, the flowing poetry will blow away any distraction. By the time you complete the Jap Ji Sahib, your mind should already by super-focused and in total peace. That is the perfect time to go into naam simran. As in most disciplines - a higher preparation ratio will always ensure a higher quality/level execution of the main objective. The other traditional method is to start off with sampuran Mool Mantar as already mentioned... recite it aloud until the Mantar goes internal/cyclic, then switch to Gurmantar. Sometimes we get so much anand form Mool Mantar alone, that we feel like continuing it, if so, continue it - it is Guru given anand. Another important aspect to remember is that our Guru given Mantars are a plant. In order to receive the fruit from that plant, we need to nurture, it, care for it, feed it, give is sunlight etc. These things are manifest in ‘inspiration and karam (actions)’. We must inspire ourselves by being rehitvaan, not for fanatical ‘I’m better than you’ purposes, but to please our Gur-Pita, it’s for him we keep our rehit, not to show or tell others. Ensure you are making udham towards learning arthh of Gurbani, doing vichaar on those arthh, discussing them with sangat. Ensure you are daily listening to, reading, telling ithihaas of our Guru Sahiban or esteemed Khalsa. Ensure you are staying away from manmat lok and bad environments, these people or places drain our kamai. Learn yudh vidya (in whatever form) with dedication, keep an open mind – keep learning and improving your skill, you don’t need to talk about it, learn it for yours, your families and the Panths raksha – not just to tick your ‘cultural roots box’. Do all things with umpteen nimrata, this pleases the Guru, and increases his blessings. Do nishkaam seva, be involved in ‘some’ form of seva to increase ekta/unity/pyaar in the Panth, stay away from those that create division and argument in the Panth. Do seva to promote Sikhi in whatever form you can. All the above have a huge impact on simran.. we can’t expect not to live a Gurmat life (sweet speech, respectful gaze, pure thoughts, considerate/selfless actions) and think our simran will be fruitful. Simran effects our lifestyle/personality, but the opposite is totally true too. It’s a circle. At a basic level, 'association' is also a great tool to have. If dedicate one place to sit and do simran everyday, if do it at the same time everyday (we do of course aim to do it 8 pehar), if you light a candle or wear a shawl etc, whatever you do, make it a rehit, a habit. Your mind will associate all these things with the exercises of simran and it will becmoe easier. Another thing to consider is ‘gyaan’. Many get obsessed with gyaan, this can take the form of history, theology, comparative religion etc etc. To the point that there is no effort and time for simran. And for some, the simran is simply a mechanical exercise, because gyaan is not the essential ingredient for simran. Gyaan is powerful ONLY, if it increases our bhagti, otherwise it simply serves to drag us away from Parmeshar (feed our haumai ‘I’). Many people have read and contemplated the ocean of advice on simran available on the internet by Sants. But this alone is not enough for bhagti. The gyaan is supposed to lead to a change in thought and action, and more importantly bhaav. Bhagti is only fruitful if it is done with prem. I know many academic types who have excellent knowledge over Gurbani, can quote all day, have great ithihaasik gyaan.. but struggle with ‘prem’. Prem can only come from ‘nimrata’ (humility). And nimrata increases with prema bhagti. This then effects all our thoughts and actions and creates a person who endeavours to please everyone and be the perfect son/daughter, wife/Husband, parent, friend, work colleague, neighbour, stranger etc etc. These Gurmukhs then become residents of ‘Anandpur’ no matter where on this planet they reside. Most importantly, always ask for naam di daat in your ardaas. This is the single most powerful action that will eventually lead us to recieving Gur-Prasad. Forgive the random ramble and gaps in the vichaar. Vaheguru.

Just search in sri guru granth sahib with word- vedas or veda note down the ang, go to gurmatveechar.com and go to sant ji folder than its already sorted by ang numbers etc, and listen to it...go through katha of each shabad mentioning vedas ...note down the various position held in each shabad to study overall gurmat position held regarding vedas ...its pretty fun activity..feel like i m in high school again studying academia..!!

Many people do as Bhai Sahib was clearly a better GurSikh and many say a Sant than anyone here. Just because you have a differing opinion doesn't mean you should go out of the way to say you don't believe what he interprets Gurbani to be. Discrediting everything for one or two differences causes tension and splits the panth. Again, I'm not from any jathebandi and don't blindly follow anyone either so I'm just saying this as a brother, we're all Sikhs and the sooner we realize that, the better. No one is perfect except Guru Sahib/ Gurbani.

I remember - again as a little boy - going to the stage to give a pound coin during kirtan (as you do when your father sends you) and one kirtaniya's harmonium had white ivory keys with RUBY RED chord keys! I was like (to myself) "Is that appropriate, Singh Sahib?". Too bling for my tastes I must say even back then as a kid.

Still, his works cannot be denounced based on his association with any particular group. Validity of an argument rests on its own credibility i.e. premises and evidence provided. Since I have studied his books, I can confidently say that his interpretation of Gurbani is correct and well within Gurmat. His interpretation is always based on one main principle: Gurbani is not contradictory. Hence, any interpretation that violates this principle is false. I never said he is the only authority but pointed out the fact that assertions made by the Hindu author have been refuted by Bhai Sahib. If there are any refutations in Taksali literature then feel free to mention them. Guru Rakha

If I were you, I would advise you to take amrit from any khalsa institution right away as there is no certainty in life to wait for a month- don't know if our next swas come in then in one month, re-pesh yourself to panj pyares to akj to learn naam jugti thats all you don't have to necessarily re-take amrit all over again, as amrit is one...there is nothing wrong with going cross platform within the panth from one samparda to another , one jatha to another...with that being said keep at the back of your head that amrit is one..!!!

The point of this thread just to highlight the current state in the panth, it applies to sikhs youths from all walks of life, living in western hemisphere. Below its not my work but someone from facebook highlighting some under the carpet issues kinda like this jathebandi fanboys video - we all saw couple of months ago..!! I apologize in advance if it offends anyone..!! But i must post this in hope youths don't get too attach with labels..!!

Hahahahahahaha omg this thread LOL!!!

ahahahahaahahahahahaahahahaha. the gold ones at darbar sahib. dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyum

Man whose harmoniums are clearly out of control/imbalanced: Man whose harmoniums are in harmonious harmony: An old man who's having a hard time with expressing his harmoniums:

I suggest a new harmonium! :biggrin2:

People already know whats happening in the news- riots/violent protest against west for showing offensive video of prophet mohammad sahib. Lets be pro-active and start an discussion on - what if it was our guru sahiban depicted in such offensive manner in west? how would sangat would react? and how they should react? peacefully? or violent- buring director ifggies/statues etc?? What's sri akaal takth sahib role should be in this kind of situation? Please discuss?

VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh! I asked in that other crazy thread but that got closed, basically can someone explain the significance and history behind coconut jhatka, when is it performed etc. thanks VahegurooJiKaKhalsaVahegurooJiKiFateh!

Bhai ji, I know we can only get a partial sense of someone over the net, and I know you are trying to be complimentary. But seriously brother, do give some people credit to not be gullible or easily susceptible to others influences. I have my own destiny and Rabh is unveiling things to this fool at their own pace - as their nadar dictates. I've never really been 'under the influence' of others from a relatively young age. I'm sort of independent minded like that, frequently to the chagrin of even my family. lol I'm trying not to offend you here but I feel I have to make the point. I don't know Giani Arshi enough, or I haven't looked at his own personal beliefs close enough to be able to make any judgments visa vis what he believes. And before I point fingers regarding others spiritual discipline/beliefs - if I'm going to be even half a man - I have acknowledge my own frequent shortcomings, lapses and misapprehensions in this area, which are in no way small. I might as well take this opportunity to let you know that the most 'influence' (if you want to term it such) or support I got towards getting into prayer and simran came from a forum that MANY ignorant people were deriding as 'suspicious' or even 'anti-Sikh' at the time (sikhawareness.com). That (frankly life changing) experience itself makes me very cynical about paying attention to 'reputations'/slander and following the opinions of others over learning and experiencing for myself. But that's just me. However I got there, by whatever unconventional, circuitous route - I'm very happy to have got there. On a good day simran gives me a peace and contentment that has eluded me all of my life, even on a mediocre day it helps me relax and be at peace with myself. It has also done wonders at making me understand the nature of mind too. But it IS a battle. I do fall off the wagon. With God's grace it will be a battle I'll fight my whole life. And this is the part you need to pay attention too especially carefully...... to my mind, the journey to where I am now involved ALL of the characters I interacted with - even if I can't remember my interaction/exchanges with them. Thus, I would say, in terms of the negative, bad stuff I've seen, experienced in my life (and I'm no sheltered cat trust me), I'd say Giani Arshi doesn't even register as a blip. I hope you understand?

ਭੁਲਣ ਓੰਦਰਿ ਸਭੁ ਕੋ ਓਭੁਲੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਕਰਤਾਰੁ ] bhulan a(n)dhar sabh ko abhul guroo karathaar || Everyone makes mistakes; only the Guru the Creator are infallible.

Please contact AKJ.ORG for more details. We apologize we can't be of help as we suffer from supremacistimitis.

i agree bro..but that needs tolerance...there are certain groups who cant tolerate diversity...they are the problem

If you must know vedas status in gurbani. I suggest you listen to sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale katha on sri guru granth sahib ji where vedas is mentioned , his katha is quite unbiased, not insecure, not hindu phobic at the same not snatan, not paranoid, . Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwale is considered , one of very few gyanis who are real authority on puratan Gurmat theology in old traditional gurmat circle..!!! This is coming from someone who is not taksali or cultish or anything...!!!

Gurbani is highly misinterpreted in that article. Bhai Randhir Singh Ji has refuted these in his books and presented correct interpretation keeping grammar and Gurbani’s message in view.

Sorry if this sounds a bit wierd, but its true. The five within you (Kamm karodh lobh moh hunkar) sit happily. As long as you indulge in worldly things they remain silent. If you do gossip, nindia, backstab, if you go to bad places, pubs, clubs, etc even if you watch TV, read a book, or magazine they remain silent. As soon as you even think about simran they become active , and in very subtle ways. Straight away they will get you do do something else, or try to put you off. If you do sit down then the thoughts will start, stories, memories, things you need to do, things that are not important suddenly become very important. It is all their way to try to stop you from your simran. There are ways and techinques to counteract them.

Wow, what a great post.

amazing post khalis veer..do post more often :D

Do maalash of your hair and let the oil soak into your scalp and slowly your roots will get used to it.

More sanatan mumbo jumo being embraced by taksalis and nihangs to overcomplicate and dilute our simple and straight forward religion....

I can't believe people take this fool seriously http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=AG8YLcoKVwA

By celebrity I don' t mean anything negative. I meant famous Sants of today's times(maybe celebrity was the wrong term to use). They are all much higher than me. I am probably not even equal to the dust of their feet. I feel many great high avasta vale Gursikhs remain Gupt. For example, I know a Singh who does a lot of Bhagti, and has even had spiritual experiences, but he prefers to remain Gupt and just do his Bhagti. He says he has not reached Brahmgian level yet and still has a lot of work to do. There are many hidden gems in our Panth.

I think generally speaking - mahapursh are given different different duties so they shouldn't be soley judged based on if they are gupt or pargat. Two classic examples - Sant Isher Singh Ji Rara Sahib wale were totally pargat to benefit the human kind by spreading Gurmat- based on hakum from Vahiguroo ji but from same samparda- Sant Attar Singh Ji Reru Sahib wale (sant ji teacher) and sant teja singh ji rara sahib (sant ji student) decided to stay gupt based on the hakum from akaal purkh ji. Same goes with damdami taksal - Sant Gyani Gurbachan Singh Ji Bhindranwale were totally pargat to benefit the human kind by spreading Gurmat- based on hakum from Vahiguroo Ji but from the same samparda- Sant Bishan Singh Ji Muralaewale (sant ji teacher's teacher) and sant mohan singh ji bhindranwale (Sant ji student) decided to stay gupt based on the hakum from akaal purkh ji.

No hard feelings either, I just get tired of people blaming America for everything. People in the Middle-East are rioting like that Innocence of Muslims film is the most popular movie in America, when the truth is that only about 10 people saw it before it was pulled. People need to stop painting Americans with one giant paintbrush. It would be like calling all Europeans fiscally irresponsible, just cuz Greece is chronically bankrupt. We don't all think alike, and we aren't all blind nationalists. People have such a warped view of Americans. I really don't care if some white supremacists don't accept me. I'm an American, and I'm not going anywhere. They can go back to their trailer-parks and beat their inbred children for all I care. I used the U.K. as an example, to show how the U.S. gets unfairly blamed for everything, even when other nations are just as much at fault. So yes, the U.S. isn't without fault, but let's not get carried away. Haha, so yeah...what were we talking about again? Oh right...insulting our Guru Sahiban....(gingerly steps aside).

I know wat u are going thru, it hard being alone and not havin no friends. the friends i had, dont want to know me nomore coz of my health condition, but then i think they are not friends if they dont want to know. I am kind of stuck in th middle, i am not amritdhari, so its hard to make amritdhari friends, I dont drink or go out or do much fashion like i did b4, and th other friends are either goin holidays, or want to go to pubs etc, or meet up in restaurants which i dont do.... And then there are women that have children, so i have nothin in common with them, but i try to keep myself busy throughout th day at home, there is always something to do, and in th comfort of ur own home, nobody can hurt u or say anything to offend u...which i used to get a lot, if they did not like my views on certain things or if im not modern enough for them. Im not boring its just that ppls attitudes change and there will always be somebody that comes into my life and go, rather than the same ones that stay around forever. but then i think this is gud for me, i dont have to be obliged to nobody and seen diversity of people and personalites in my life that would not have if i had friends. Waheguru is a friend u can rely on, if u feel lonely or down, talk to them, they do listen...i even cry to them sometimes, but thats ok coz i know they are the only ones that listen to me, whereas others run away, and they are not the ones to be friends with. Lookafter the gems and dont go looking around for stones. :waheguru:

We should all do Ardas that such a thing never happens.

I've a feeling the Khalsa will pick up the pieces after whatever is going to happen has transpired. People will be looking for something, a comfort of some sort, and that's where I think Gurbani will be the key.

Yeah it has been confirmed that if you feel its getting cold all of a sudden and for no explainable reason, you've got company!

I tried reading a very interesting interpretation of the Vedas by Sri Aurobindo (The secret of the Vedas) and I've flicked through the Max Muller translation. I don't know how anyone can make strong claims about the Vedas because no one seems to be able to comprehend it in a definitive manner. When I went through Max Mullers interpretation it read like complete gibberish in many places. All that being said, I respect the Vedas because it is THE oldest book in the world and it originated from Panjab - I just think its meanings have been lost over time. Your question about affirmative and negative comments visa vis the Vedas in bani is an interesting one. Aurobindo believed it was a coded work with referred to psychological processes/development using analogy and allegory. When I tried reading it I began appreciate our Gurbani for its clarity and general straight forwardness more.

Khalsa Jio, On the 1st of a new Gurmat month, it is routine for Gursikhs to listen to katha veechar of that month from Barah Maha. A lot of Sikh youth overlook this maryada due to not having English katha available. Guru Nanak Academy presents, in English, the veechar of Asun, so take the opportunity to hear the guidance Guru Arjan Dev Ji blesses us with. If Barah Maha is not recited on a daily basis, it is especially important for Gursikhs to recite the entire prayer at the beginning of each month. Look forward to next month's katha posting.

From Delhi To Nanded is Rupees 9550 Round Trip From GoAir.

What was the score with that whole situation? Wasn't the writer of the piece saying "This is not what happens in all Gurughars, but this is a fictional account of something that may have happened sometime, somewhere?".

We need food etc to live in this world. These are all maya. But Dhanna ji is not saying asking for these is wrong, he is simply saying that he is not engrossed in them. Similar to how a lotus lives in the muck but remains floating on top, untouched, unengrossed.

OSingh Jee is right. Khalsa needs to only trust in Guru Gobind Singh Jee. Only the Saharaa of 10th master can give us success, not siding with lallu panchus of Akali Dal or Congress. Just imagine if all the Singhs of Taksal, Sant Samaj, AKJ, Nihangs, Sampradas, Bittu, Maan etc get together and form a 3rd front, the Akali Dal and Congress would start to have sleepless nights out of fear. Problem is, we don't have enough faith in the Khalsa. We have more faith in the corrupt men that are running India today.

WJKK WJKF, I was wondering what to do for the past number of months, I have felt emptyiness and lonliness. Not sure what to do about it?

What I meant was khalsa (pure) means to live life according to waheguru's hukam, who lives and sees the truth 24/7, battles the 5 thieves night and day and who has merged with the naam. To get khalistan we must strive for the qualities outlined by our father Guru Gobind Singh Ji maharaj first. I actually do want Khalistan because I know what the sikhs in India are going through right now; the government is killing the youth and getting them addicted to drugs etc. However right now we can't even help the homeless people sleeping on the street at southall. Once we stop being selfish and see everything as one we will surely become and get khalistan. We see others as separate we compete with them having a 'I am better than you' attiutude. If we had the same love as a mother has for her child but instead for everyone, would there be people sleeping on the street at night? Look at the Guru Ji when the 4 char sahib jade were shaheed some of guru ji's followers asked guru ji if we could cover them with a blanket. Guru ji laughed and said if you want to cover them with a blanket cover everyone as well because they are also my sons and daughters. Didn't bhai Fauja singh say that if every sikh even attempts to do simran for 5 mins, waheguru would give khalistan to us by tomorrow? See waheguru is ready to give us khalistan but we are not listening to him. We have become manmukh; not even surrendering to him so how can we get khalistan?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh! I looked through the history section of Niddar Singh's Shastar Vidiya website and identified the lies and mistruths I found scattered through the pages where the author misquotes bani to attempt to identify Sikhi as a subset of Hinduism. I've quoted the author in italics and my comments are below. His claims that he is the last teacher of the Akali Nihung martial art that originated with Shiva and came to the Nihangs via the Pashupati shamans, the Kapalika and Kalamukha Shiva worshippers, and the order of the Naths I've left unexamined because apart from the author's creativity and fancy there is no evidence to examine. Page 1 The 'Brahma Kavach' consists of 32 sacred names of the primordial power of 'Akal' - also known as 'Adi Deva' 'Shiv' (Shiva). Braham Kavach can be found here: http://www.manglacha...ranslation.html Akal and Shiva are completely distinct entities, and nowhere in Sri Dasam Granth is Akal equated to Shiva. Shiva like Vishnu and Brahma are destroyed by Kal. According to the ballad 'Astotar Sri Bhagauti Ji Ka', attributed to Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh, 'Adi Deva Shiv' was pleased and the dark manifestation of 'Shiv Mahakal' appeared from the fire in the form known as 'Kharag Devta' (also known as 'Assu Devta') Bhagauti Astotar can be found here: http://www.manglacharan.com/2010/01/bhagauti-astotar-paat-is-very-rare.html It's pretty clear that the Astotar says no such thing. Page 5 In northern India, in order to defend the Sanatan Hindu Dharam in the Punjab, in accordance with the need of the times, emerged Akali Guru Nanak Dev Ji (1469-1539) to stand up to 'Turk' tyranny. Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not emerge to defend Sanatan Hindu Dharam. This is the same propaganda used by the RSS who claim that Sikhs were created to protect Hinduism. Bhai Gurdas Ji explains the reason for Sri Guru Nanak's manifestation on earth as follows: ਣੀ ਪੁਕਾਰ ਦਾਤਾਰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਗ ਮਾਹਿ ਪਠਾਇਆ || ਚਰਨ ਧੋਇ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਕਰਿ ਚਰਣਾਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਿੱਖਾਂ ਪੀਲਾਇਆ || ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਅੰਦਰ ਇਕ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ || ਚਾਰੇ ਪੈਰ ਧਰਮ ਦੇ ਚਾਰਿ ਵਰਨ ਇਕ ਵਰਨੁ ਕਰਾਇਆ || ਰਾਣਾ ਰੰਕ ਬਰਾਬਰੀ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਵਣਾ ਜਗਿ ਵਰਤਾਇਆ | ਉਲਟਾ ਖੇਲੁ ਪਿਰੰਮ ਦਾ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਉਪਰਿ ਸੀਸ ਨਿਵਾਇਆ || ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਬਾਬੇ ਤਾਰਿਆ ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ ਪੜ੍ਹਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਸੁਣਾਇਆ || ਕਲਿ ਤਾਰਣਿ ਗੁਰੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਆਇਆ ||੨੩|| ਵਾਰ ੧ || The Provider Lord listened to the cries, Guru Nanak descended into this world. Washing His feet and praising God, he got his Sikhs to drink the ambrosial nectar. In this Dark Age, he showed all gods to be just one. The four feet of Dharma, the four castes were converted into one. Equality of the King and beggar, he spread the custom of being humble. Reversed is the game of the beloved; the egotist high heads bowed to the feet. Baba Nanak rescued this Dark Age; read 'satnam' and recited the mantar. Guru Nanak came to redeem this Dark Age of Kaljug. Bhai Gurdas - Vaar 1 pauri 23 Page 6 Nanak, according to one 'Puratan Janamsakhi' (old biographies of the first Sikh Guru), was ushered by 'Nirankar Sadha Shiv' (the formless Eternal Shiva - granter of salvation and great preserver Maha Vishnu) into 'Sach Khand'.) The concept of 'Sadha Shiv' has been more fully explained in 'Shiva: The Wild God of Power and Ecstasy' (Wolf-Dietter Strol, Pa. 71), 'Rudra Avtar' (Dasam Guru Durbar, verse 7) and 'Sikhan di Bhagat Mala' (ed. Trilochan Singh Bedi, (Publication Bureau Punjabi University, Patiala, 1994), Pa 93). There is an attempt throughout the website to conflate the Hindu god Shiva with Akal Purakh Waheguru. Here the author claims that Guru Nanak Dev Ji was ushered into Sachkhand by an 'eternal' form of Shiva. The pankti from Sri Dasam Granth references in support of his claim from Rudra Avtar (verse 7) is as follows and says nothing about Sada Shiva: ਜਬ ਹੋਤ ਧਰਨ ਭਾਰਾ ਕਰਾਂਤ ॥ ਤਬ ਪਰਤ ਨਾਹਿ ਤਿਹ ਹ੍ਰਿਦੈ ਸਾਂਤਿ ॥ ਚਲ ਦਧ ਸਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਿ ਕਰਈ ਪੁਕਾਰ ॥ ਤਬ ਧਰਤ ਬਿਸਨ ਰੁਦ੍ਰਾਵਤਾਰ ॥੭॥ When the earth is pressed by the load of sins, then she cannot have peace in her heart. Then she goes and shouts loudly in the milk-ocean and the Rudra incarnation of Vishnu is manifested.7. The beginning of Chaubis Avatar is pretty clear on the status of the 24 Avatars not being identical to Akal Purakh Waheguru: ਜੋ ਚਉਬੀਸ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਭੀ ਤੁਮ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤਨਿਕ ਨ ਪਾਏ ॥ Those who are called twenty-four incarnations; O Lord ! they even could not realise thee in a small measure; ਸਭ ਹੀ ਜਗ ਭਰਮੇ ਭਵ ਰਾਯੰ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਨਾਮ ਬਿਅੰਤ ਕਹਾਯੰ ॥੭॥ They became kings of the world and got deluded; Therefore they were called by innumerable names. In Chaupai Sahib, Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji makes it even clearer that Shiva is not Akal and is not is something that is worthy of worship: ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥ He calls Shiva "The Eternal Lord, "but he does not know the secret of the Formless Lord.392. Page 9 The second is 'Brahm Kavach' - the warrior's eulogy to the transcendental 'Maha Vishnu'. The manifested form - 'Adi Deva Shiv'/'Mahakal' and his 'Shakti' known as 'Chandi'/'Kalika', is represented respectively by the swords 'Assu Devta'/'Kharag Devta' (twelve fist-long double edged Khanda) and a 'Talwar'. See Braham kavach translation on the link above. It says nothing about Maha Vishnu, Adi Deva Shiv/Mahakal. The author has this habit of attempting to graft Hindu ideas onto Sikh scripture for his own ends. Page 14 Even the designation 'Akal' was after all another designation of 'Shiva'. Shiva is called Akal and Sadashiv by Hindus, but Akal in Sikh scripture is an adjectival epithet of the Supreme Being who is distinct from any hindu deity. See the quotes from Sri Dasam Granth above. Page 15 The Shivite link with the Sikh martial heritage would become far clearer in the tenure of the tenth Sikh Guru - Akali Nihang Gobind Singh (1661-1708). The author makes it clear here that his agenda is to form a link between Shiva worshipping hindus and Sikhi. The author then attempts to form a link between earlier akharas of hindus who worshipped Shiva and the Khalsa Army over the next few pages and them attempts to quote Sri Dasam Granth in support of his views: Page 19 Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh personified 'Mahakaal', in the same manner as the above mentioned Shivite warrior ascetics: "In Mahakaal's hand gleams the great terrifying sword and when he walks his ankle bells jingle. He has four beautiful arms. [On his head] is a beautiful topknot. His club is of good reputation. It enamours the mind of 'Yama' (stick-wielding demigod of death). His fire-like tongue is praiseworthy. His teeth are horrifying. [At time of his attack in battle] the conch shells blow, and battle drums beat as if the ocean is roaring. The splendour of his dark complexion is a store house of praise. On his face is a large pure 'Tilak' - its brilliance is known in all for directions. Over his head hangs a shiny, white, glorious royal umbrella. On recognising the beauty of its shade, light is put to shame. The great large red eyes of 'Maharaja' (Emperor - referring to Mahakaal) look glorious. In face of their radiance the ones who adorn a necklace of rays [the Sun's] a million of them are embarrassed." ('Bachitar Natak', Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh, Dasam Guru Durbar, Part 1, Verse 31-35) The panktis from Bachitar Natak that are quoted by the author are from Sri Kal Ji Ki Ustat (Praise of Sri Kal). In this bani, the name of Mahakal is not mentioned and the author has erroneously tried to equate Sri Kal with Shiva (who the author claims is identical to Mahakal). The verses are as follows: ਰਸਾਵਲ ਛੰਦ ॥ ਤ੍ਵਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ RASAAVAL STANZA BY THY GRACE ਚਮਕਹਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੰ ॥ ਅਭੂਤੰ ਭਯਾਣੰ ॥ ਧੁਨੰ ਨੇਵਰਾਣੰ ॥ ਘੁਰੰ ਘੁੰਘਰਾਣੰ ॥੩੧॥ The sword of KAL glistens, which is Non-elemental and terrible.While moving, his anklets rattle and the small bells jingle.31. ਚਤੁਰ ਬਾਂਹ ਚਾਰੰ ॥ ਨਿਜੂਟੰ ਸੁਧਾਰੰ ॥ ਗਦਾ ਪਾਸ ਸੋਹੰ ॥ ਜਮੰ ਮਾਨ ਮੋਹੰ ॥੩੨॥ He hath four winsome arms and on his head, his long hair have been bound in a lovely knot. The mace with him appears splendid, which fascinate the honour of Yama.32. ਸੁਭੰ ਜੀਭ ਜੁਆਲੰ ॥ ਸੁ ਦਾੜ੍ਹਾ ਕਰਾਲੰ ॥ ਬਜੀ ਬੰਬ ਸੰਖੰ ॥ ਉਠੇ ਨਾਦ ਬੰਖੰ ॥੩੩॥ His tongue red like fire seems magnificent and his grinder teeth are very frightening. His conches and drums resound like the thundering sound of the sea. 33. ਸੁਭੰ ਰੂਪ ਸਿਆਮੰ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਸੋਭ ਧਾਮੰ ॥ ਛਬੇ ਚਾਰੁ ਚਿਤ੍ਰੰ ॥ ਪਰੇਅੰ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰੰ ॥੩੪॥ His dark form looks elegant and is the abode of Great Glory. On his face there are lovely delineations, which are superbly holy. 34. ਭੁਜੰਗ ਪ੍ਰਯਾਤ ਛੰਦ ॥ BHUJANG PRAYAAT STANZA ਸਿਰੰ ਸੇਤ ਛਤ੍ਰੰ ਸੁ ਸੁਭ੍ਰੰ ਬਿਰਾਜੰ ॥ ਲਖੇ ਛੈਲ ਛਾਯਾ ਕਰੇ ਤੇਜ ਲਾਜੰ ॥ On his head there swings the beautiful, lustrous and white canopy, seeing whose shadow and considering it winsome, the light feels abashed. ਬਿਸਾਲ ਲਾਲ ਨੈਨੰ ਮਹਾਰਾਜ ਸੋਹੰ ॥ ਢਿਗੰ ਅੰਸੁਮਾਲੰ ਹਸੰ ਕੋਟਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਹੰ ॥੩੫॥ The fleshy and red eyes of the God seem magnificent, before whose light millions of suns appear irritated. 35. So where is the reference to Shiva as Mahakal in the above? The answer is that there is none. In fact, if the author has bothered to read on he would have found that Kal is distinct from Shiva. Indeed, Shiva is created and destroyed by Kal: ਸਵੈਯਾ॥ SWAYYA. ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਯੋ ਭਗਵਾਨ ਸੁ ਜਾਗਤ ਯਾ ਜਗ ਜਾ ਕੀ ਕਲਾ ਹੈ ॥ At the instance of KAL, Vishnu appeared, whose power is manifested through the world. ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਯੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਸਿਵ ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਯੋ ਜੁਗੀਆ ਹੈ ॥ At the instance of KAL, Brahma appeared and also at the instance of KAL the Yogi Shiva appeared. ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਸੁਰਾਸੁਰ ਗੰਧ੍ਰਬ ਜੱਛ ਭੁਜੰਗ ਦਿਸਾ ਬਿਦਿਸਾ ਹੈ ॥ At the instance of KAL, the gods, demons, Gandharvas, Yakshas, Bhujang, directions and indications have appeared. ਔਰ ਸੁਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਬਸ ਕਾਲ ਕੇ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕਾਲ ਅਕਾਲ ਸਦਾ ਹੈ ॥੮੪॥ All the other prevalent object are within KAL, only One supreme KAL is ever Timeless and eternal.84. The Tenth Guru further reinforced the 'Shiv Swaroop' amongst his Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa. He instructed his Akali Nihang warriors: "If you take the refuge of Mahakal, he will save you. If you make the worship of 'Asket' (battle standard with 'Assu'/'Kharag' upon it - the re-interpreted 'Ardhanarishvara' symbol of androgynous 'Shiv'/'Mahakaal' the Khanda) your daily practice. Then placing his hand upon you, 'Asdhuj' (ie, 'Asket') will save you." ('<a href="<banned site filter activated>/glossary_files/treh_charittar.html?width=400">Treh Charittar 404', Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh, Dasam Guru Durbar, Verse 366-367) Firstly, the author has placed his own comments into the translation which are not present in the original text. There is nothing in the panktis from the 404th charitar which say that Asket and Asdhuj are the "battle standard with 'Assu/Kharag' upon it - the re-interpreted 'Ardhanarishvara' symbol of androgynous 'Shiv'/'Mahakaal' the Khanda". The author, again, seems to be inserting his own pro-hindu pro-Shaivite interpretations into the bani. In Charitar 404, Kal and Mahakal are used interchangeably. They are separate and distinct from Shiva. During the war that is described in this charitar, the gods of the hindu trinity – Shiva/Mahadev, Vishnu and Brahma cower in fear: ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਆਸਨ ਤੇ ਟਰਾ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਤ੍ਰਸਤ ਬੂਟ ਮਹਿ ਦੁਰਾ ॥ ਨਿਰਖਿ ਬਿਸਨ ਰਨ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਨਾ ॥ ਦੁਰਾ ਸਿੰਧ ਕੇ ਬੀਚ ਲਜਾਨਾ ॥੮੦॥ Mahadev (Shiva) left his throne. Brahma was afraid and hid in his lotus. Vishnu was petrified and hid under the ocean. 80. It is pretty clear that the Akal/Mahakal that Nihangs are advised to take refuge in is the same Kal who is described in Sri Kal Ji Ki Ustat and who is identified as being identical to Akal Purakh and not the hindu deity Shiva. K.

Let me state two issues i have with niddars ideology...1) it has hooked youth onto alcohol, opium and cannabis...my proof of this is my good friend who was a chardi kala singh who happened to attend one of niddars classes..and that was it..he started hanging around with his crew...and few months down the line...he is on heroin and is a harcore alci..he also has cut off his kesh and now attends the mandir morre than he does gurdwara.. i single handedly blame niddar for the loss of one of my good friends...soo its personal...2) HIs contiinous insults against Sant Jarnail singh ji khalsa Bhindranwale and the Kharkoo Shaheeds...This is a insult which i cannot tolerate...its funny these people didnt have the balls to say anything during the peak of Khalistani Kharkoo Lehar....because they knew they would of got blasted...no amount of shastar vidya can stop a bullet lol..they're brave now?..but how brave would they be if Baba Manochal, Nihang Avtar singh Bhrama, Gurjant Singh Bhudhsinghwala (Nang Killer), etc were standing infront of them with the rest of the AK47 wale behind them.....Niddar Chele if you want to insult people...atleast do it to their face while they are alive or better come confront the Kharkoo youth face to face....and then we can settle it!

Sharabi kababi nuh ki pata sikhi barray. Dukan Challaey janda, lookan nuh buddu baana keh. Seen niddar last year @ heathrow airport carrying alcohol beverages in those infamous duty free shop bags (along with three of his friends - one came to pick him up). Sad picture to see nihang bana wearing so-called sikh carrying alcohol in front of the world @ the airport. Besharami deh vi haad hundey ya ! oh shado ehana besharam lookan nuh.. website bana davo ehna deh kartootan deyaan and people will become aware of such thugs.

Pyare Sadh Sangat jeeo Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh We are living in strange times. Falsehood is rife in the world. However to dispel this darkeness, we have the chanan (light ) of Gurbani. This 'sanatan sikhi' does not match with Gurmat. "I personally don't agree with all this Niddar Singh bashing on here. Just his view does does not match up with yours, don't mean we do his nindya." ArtMental ji it is not correct to nindiya at anytime as per Gurmat. However when anybody tries to change the message of Gurbani then we have to take a stand. If we love our Guru then we will never stand by and let parchar that goes against the teachings of Guru Sahib take place. The first question that has to be answered is why the first picture on the site is that of Ram ji and Sita ji. If we love our Guru, dhan sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, then sites promoting Gurmat should have Gurbani and not pictures of avtars of other dharams. We as Sikh's never do pooja of avtars of other faiths, as per sri choupai sahib, ਸਵੈਯਾ ਪਾਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸਿਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਸ ਸਬੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਪਾਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ This makes it clear that Satguru Gobind Singh ji never believed in any other faiths, he says their are many mats (religions) but he does not believe in any of them. Nor does Guru Sahib follow the teachings of Vedas and Simriti. Guru Sahib has faith in Akal Purakh, alone. We as Sikh do not need these other mats, granths, devtas to reach our preeetam pyare Waheguru. We have our Satguru Granth Sahib to lead us to God. This site will just create confusion to newcomers of Sikhi. However my brothers and sisters that have knowledge and pyar(love) of Gurbani will never fall for this false 'sanatan sikhi' ideology. Just look at the responses of those that sopport this site, they use no reference to Gurbani bu just state we are more knowledgabe, clever etc than you, we are right and you are not on our 'level'. I urge my veers and bhains not to resort to using terms such as RSS, Hindu Fanatics etc. Lets use Gurbani to counter their ideology. All they do is use janamsakhi't to prove this and that, whatever fits their system. We must always use Gurbani as to intepret janamsakhi's, these manuscipts are not Gurbani, whatever goes against Gurbani we discard, those sakhi's that match Gurbani we keep. Rabb Rakhe Satguru Mehar Karan

It is a useless Hindu practice neither is it Sikhism - which is against Rituals and nor will it help one get closer to God - all Koor Kireyah

thats wicked seva bro