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well i personally wait 21 minutes, or wait for my dog to bark 3 times, or even sometimes, wait for a raven to perch on my neighbours garage before i start paath, after going for a shhite. hope that helps!!

No bhenji I see one :DYOU!!! :D

Will do.

We need some chaldikala bibiya on board to. But think they've all disappeared

So two Sikhs who smoke, drink etc are happily allowed to marry in a Gudwara but when a Sikh who wants to stay within his or her religion and wants to get the blessing of their Guru and their partner is happy to do the same we should push them away?

From what we have learned in the Sangat of Gursikhs, Matha-tek constitutes the following: 1. Walk into Guru-Darbar, with utmost humility, wearing Gurmukhi Baana. It is lack of fear and respect for Guru Sahib to not wear Baana in Guru Sahib's Darbar. Similarly, to is extremely awkward to not wear a Hazooria when coming to the Darbar. Matha-tek is not complete without Hazooria. 2. While walking towards, Guru Sahib, the eyes should be fixed upon Guru Sahib or half closed and focused towards the floor in front of Guru Sahib. 3. If one is wearing a shawl or loyee, then it should be opened from front, so that the Shasters (weapons) that Gursikh is wearing, are visible to Guru Sahib. 4. With humility, stand in front of Guru Sahib and do a short Ardaas. 5. At the conclusion of the Ardaas, do Matha-tek, get up and say Fateh to Guru Sahib, by facing Guru Sahib alone. 6. After saying Fateh to Guru Sahib, turn on right (or left) and glancing (having Darshan) of Sangat, say Fateh to Sangat. Then turn on the other side and say Fateh to Sangat on that side, while having Darshan. 7. Then find a spot and with humility, fear and love of Guru Sahib and Sangat, sit there cross-legged. Expanding on the point 5 above, the following should be kept in mind, while Matha-tek. 1. With both hands folded, hold your Hazooria within your hands. 2. At least 9 Angs (organs) of the body must touch the ground - 2 Hands, Forehead, 2 elbows, 2 knees and 2 feet. 3. The hands should be extended as much as possible, straight ahead and they should stay folded with Hazooria within them. 4. The forehead should be touching the ground. 5. The bottom (butts) must rest on the heel of the feet. The feet should be flat on the ground in such way that the front (upper side of the feet) should be lying flat on the ground. Some people have their bottom sticking up in the sky; this is not respectable. When a person is in Matha-tek Position, he should be totally shrinked towards the ground. 6. While in this position, which is also called Anjuli in Gurmat language, it is a great idea to ask for Naam, through some Gurbani Pankiti e.g. "Phirat Phirat Prabh aaiya, Pariya tau Sharnaae||". Gurmukhi way of Matha Tek - Feet are resting on the ground and notice how the body is totally submissive by being close to the ground, as much as possible: In the picture below, notice the Feet are not resting on the ground and butt not resting on heels; how awkward it looks. Of course the main thing is Bhaavnee and love but Izhaar-e-Muhabbat is also important. While Adab (respect) is important but Izhaar-e-Adab is also important. Some brothers and sisters only Matha-tek to Guru Sahib and totally ignore the Sangat by not saying Fateh to Sangat. Our tradition is to to say Fateh to Guru Sahib and also to acknowledge Sangat by saying Fateh. Bhul chuk dee Maafi jee. Guru Sahib knows the best. Kulbir Singh

Ok so I just had this idea earlier this week. There was some video on YouTube a couple of months ago called Sikh Think Tank, and most people seemed to be uncles (no offense lol). I am just wondering if we could have some sort of a think tank right here on Sikhsangat? We have enough people who can contribute and brainstorm solutions to several issues Sikhs are facing. The plus point is that they are from different parts of the world. Bijla Singh (requesting historical and political perspectives) N30S1NGH (requesting spiritual Gurmat perspectives) Consciousness (requesting spiritual Gurmat perspectives) proactive (requesting historical and political perspectives) There must be several others also who I am probably forgetting. We usually don't agree on many things, which is another good thing as it opens more scopes for further brainstorming. Initially I was thinking if we could have a new section where only few people could have access and post, but then that fails the entire idea of a free forum, so we can do it in the form of normal threads. I am just thinking of ways as to how we could make this forum more constructive in terms of Panthic matters. I am sure there are people who know people, so once there is an agreement on a particular solution to a particular problem, we can then create an online petition and circulate it on Facebook, Twitter and other Sikh forums to get more approvals and then send it to whoever concerned in order to form a collective Panthic voice. The only condition is that the discussion is constructive, and so is the criticism. If you need to highlight a flaw, just highlight the flaw without resorting to getting personal. Yes, this will have to be where one would need to re-read his/her messages a few times before hitting "Post". I am looking for people who are mature enough to discuss. The 4 Gurmukhs I have listed are regular and active posters and I expect wise words from them each time I read their post. I am sure there are others as well, please do come forward as we need more opinions and viewpoints. S1ngh, Balait, do we need a separate section for this? You guys are the tech kings, please see if that could be done, or lets see how the Sangat responds and if needed we can have a separate section once we see that the response is good. So what do you all think? Please send your comments/suggestions and we can start with one issue as one new thread and start off.

http://www.sgpc.net/news/kirpan.asp http://www.sikhisidak.com/kirpan-law.html

Consciousness - I don't say you are wrong, but what after following all this "Mudra", person's "Mann-Atma" is not doing Matha-Tek before GURU/GURU-Hukam?

Remember how they finally got Al Capone ? We need to bombard the Department of Work & Pensions with letters. Lets ensure their fraud department launch an investigation. All the while probably been claiming public money fraudulently. If he was in India, as he claims, for several years from 1984 onwards, let the DWP investigate why he was (probably) claiming jobseekers and family tax credit and working tax credit in this country. Given that he states in mainstream interviews that he makes his living as a working class factory worker, is Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs aware of his income from books and public appearances etc ? Shouldn't the DWP and the HMRC be given a detailed list of all the book signings, museum exhibitions, paid speeches etc etc etc ? Now I'm not a gambling man but I'd be willing to bet good money that this compulsive liar has been lying to the authorities as much as he's been lying to Sikhs. In the end, a geezer always gets bitten in the kyhber by his own lies. Lets bombard the DWP and the HMRC with details........and then, a few months down the line, lets use the freedom of information rights to find out if there'd been any fraud investigations in the wolverhampton area. 1984 to 1997 ? Who paid the mortgage during this period then ? Who paid the rates ? Who paid the bills ? If it was me, the taxpayer, I want that man arrested, charged and publicly humiliated. One way or the other the man is lying to someone. He's either lying to us or he's lying to the authorities. All I'm saying is there's more than one way to expose a liar. You just need to think outside the box.

I love the way you lie. :respect:

I will do that for sure brother. I remember how devastating it is to loose a pet even for few hours. Last year, my lab ran away by digging a tunnel underneath the fence. Nobody was home and when we came back, i saw my doberman all hyper and we couldn't find the lab and he was without collar. After 30 mins of circling around neighborhood, my lab came back on his own; half covered with mud. Those 30 mins were just devastating for us. From that day i never kept my dog outside. I will do ardas for your pet safety. Does he got a tag or microchip on him?

I really do like his Parchar. I think he has grown over the past few years. When you start doing parchar at a young age, ego comes easily. No matter whats happened in the past, he is doing good Parchar. His style of katha is good. He is one of the few good english parchariks we have. He is coming to BC so those that live in the lower mainland area should take advantage.

Are they trying to beat Gravesend's new amzing Gurudwara? theres a saying in punjab, roughly translated it says this "In the past the Singhs used to be strongly built and the Gurudwaras weakily built, these days the Gurudwaras are strongly built but the Singhs weakily built"

Could you go to a few Gurdwaras and have an appeal? We had £50,000 raised for the Akal Acadamy in Punjab in just 30 mins at our local Gurdwara. Often its the older uncles and auties (and not very wealthy) that contribute the most. The 5 min film shown at a few Gurdwaras would bring in a lot of funds. Maybe a few elders with connections to Gurdwaras could help you out?

I agree with original poster, some women go over the top with their clothes, they can wear a cardigan over top if they feel its revealing, but nooo, its going to ruin the wedding pics and video I guess. I dont like the low back suits at all, even elder women wear them, which look ridiculous... Im not really a backwards person, but do know what to wear a the gurdwara, whether its a wedding or not, and if women do not the difference between a gurdwara and a reception hall then they have a lot of learning to do.

Waheguru Waheguru Waheguru If that does stir your soul, then wow!

Reform movements take place in most religions, it usually occurs when the religion has lost it's vitality and is at it's lowest ebb. This was the case with Sikhi in the 1870s. The Singh Sabha as well as the Arya Samaj were organisations that believed that the decline both respective religions were suffering was due to the fact that many rituals had come into the religions which had not basis in the holy books of each religion. The Arya Samaj believed that idol worship was a later development and was never a part of the Hindu religion. For the Singh Sabha the fact that many Sikhs worshipped idols, Guga Pir and Sakhi Sarwar, showed that Sikhi needed to go back to the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib. Being against Sikhs worshipping idols does not necessarily mean you also need to supportive of British rule. The case in point is the Nirankaris and the Namdharis. You couldn't get more anti-British than the Namdharis in th 1870s and yet the fact thing that many Kukas did on become disciples of Baba Ram Singh was to go back to their villages and destroy the Jathera 'mattis' that dotted each village. The automatic assumption seems to be that the Sikhs of the 1840s were following the same Sikhi that existed at the times of Gurus and therefore if there is evidence that those Sikhs believed in a Sikhi that is substantially different from the Sikhi of today then the Sikhi of today is false and their Sikhi was correct. What the Singh Sabha did was look at the validity of each rite and ritual that Sikhs took part in through the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib.

Heheh, love you too guruvah veer...looks like you are in desparate need for naam jhaapi..awww ..i can give you tight brotherly naam jhapi..don' be afraid i won't give you constipation or anything like that again..hehe

Bijla Singh I will second. N30-honestly, spare me the horror, if you really call this forum SIKHsangat. Prabhjoth SIngh I suggest. :biggrin2:

SCOOBY DOOBYYY DOOOOOOOOOO

I disagree with "sex is for babies only". Food is to keep you nourished yet how many on here have indulged by eating chocolate, samosas, biscuits etc? These can be considered unnecessary too. Yet we eat them. They're distributed in the Gurdwara. For what purpose other than pleasure? How many eat parathas? How many butter their rotis? Sex, like everything else, needs to be in moderation. Just like eating junk food all day long is bad for your health, constantly thinking and indulging in sex is just as bad for your mind. Which is the lesser of evils: birth control to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, or abortion for an unwanted pregnancy?

aa gyaaaaaaa :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Big, big japhi!

Prabhjot Singh Sahib Ji, you need to help me, its a big seva..cannot do it alone... collectively we can do it..remember two heads are better than one.. :D

Waheguru Jeo, Thanks for all the pyaar jeo *japhi* i'm afraid i possess neither the adhyatmik gyan nor the practical wisdom that this role demands, however the concept sounds wonderful and progressive, and all the chosen members are worthy of representing the rest of Sangat in any future debates and discussions, Gurprasad

No one knows and no one cares. Why should they? He is 'well' and alive. No one's bothered about him rotting in jail like the other several Singhs wrongly jailed. And then there are other shameless people who keep trying to prove him as a GOI agent. Honestly, had the hanging not been stopped...he would have become Shaheed and not once again forgotten by us all. A very sad state of affairs, indeed! Guru Maharaaj AAP Panth nu sehd bakhshan.

LOL Nah, I can't do this haha I nominate whoever's been listed (Bijla Singh, N30S1NGH, proactive, jonny101, DalSingh101, )+ Prabhjot Singh and Freed paaji. Both of them don't frequent enough though

Oh gosh totally forgot prabhjot Singh veer.. He should and must join spiritual and Gurmat front too.

Oh crap sorry forgot both kaljugi and singh559 veer..!!!!!!!! :blush2:

How dare I forget my Mahabharat buddy - Kaljugi!

We can start off this way. Lets see how it goes Yes please go right ahead! :D

Oh ok i got it now. Can i open up a new topic titled- Revamp/tweak standard sikhi parchar to those who are new to sikhi? So may be after constructive debate, it could be send off as recommendation to all those who hold/organize sikhi camps/seminars?

Correct me if i m wrong is this how flow should look like?? User reports an issue/matter/post question/request for direction to team above: | | | v Specific members depending on the matter if its- political or spiritual/gurmat looks at it, starts an constructive discussion open to all- after topic run its course- come up neutral collective response which should address all the points in the discussion and gets reviewed/agreed or somewhat agree(by looking at the bigger picture) by all then we send it off as final collective response/solution to the issue. Does that sounds about right?

So basically this thread is to (1.) Find out and list our best contributors of this forum in terms of knowledge. As we see above, we have several intelligent folks on board. (2.) List out issues and thereby start different threads discussing each issue per thread. Everyone is free to post, but our level of expectation is highest from all the people mentioned above. And I repeat, (1.) The only condition is that the discussion is constructive, and so is the criticism. If you need to highlight a flaw, just highlight the flaw without resorting to getting personal. (2.) We hope to see more than a 3 line response, at the same time a really long post that beats around the bush would not help. More like a list of to the point and mature solutions that can be implemented towards resolving whatever issue(s) we discuss.

Aww guys, I am humbled you guys choose me- i m nothing like empty vessel without Guru maharaj and mahapursh kirpa. I will try my best to give advise based on Gursikh Mahapursh perception. I also vote- JasSinghKhalsa, DalSingh101, Chatanga and Johny101 as political PR, providing political and historical perspective as well. ..!! They all have bought some amazing posts in the past. I also highly vote PAL07, (like to vote- kam1825 as well but he is not active on forum much) providing spiritual gurmat perspective as well as he spent many many years, time with mahapursh and understanding gurbani shabad in context. He could also validate what Consciousness and I have to say on matter if its trivial or bit of grey area, so transparency and accountability is maintained through out the whole way. I agree- freed is live walking encyclopedia singh when it comes to historical pictures/events etc. He should be part of the team too. This concept looks difficult in mind but once its laid out nicely like this thread, its looks much easier :D :D

Good idea. WLS and dalsingh, thanks for your idea. I started a separate thread for the Scottish independence movement. http://www.sikhsanga...dence-movement/ Lets continue discussing over there and keep this one for ideas related to the Sikhsangat think tank. cheers

And possibly have this think tank group's voice be heard in all major platforms of our community. It naturally becomes the duty of elder generation who are currently heading small or big organizations to include the upcoming young generation in decision making process. For example, whatever sikhi based stuff happens in uk, this forum itself becomes the strong activist. this place always becoming the hub/platform for Sangat to gather/share information. Maybe we can contact with Sikh council uk or uk sikh fed to include sikhsangat think tank as new appointed youth members. Just some points I like to share. Add freed member who is amazing in gathering historical items.

Of course, what I am hoping to see is more than a 3 line response, at the same time I don't really think a long post that beats around the bush would help. More like a list of to the point mature solutions that can be implemented towards resolving whatever issue(s) we discuss.

i dont know if i fall inot the catagory of mature but I would love to discuss

When i was posting two new topics, browser get stuck and white blank page stays. Reloaded the browser and ends up double posting of new topic.

"Bittoo puttar, tenu Jennifer apni janaani de roop ch jachdi aa?".."Hanji Babaji"..."Jennifer, does you like the Bittoo for husband?"..."I do"..."changa fer matha teko".

Also Relevent

There is a Gurudwara in my home town of Dera Ismail Khan, Pakistan called Gurudwara Amir Shah Singh http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/gurudwaras-in-pakistan/gurudwara-amir-shah-singh-at-jhanda-ram-street It is a school now. Pease see its close-up below: After the annexation of Dera Ismail Khan by Prince Nao Nihal Singh in 1836, there were a great many buildings built in Dera Ismail Khan by the Khalsa government. Few of which remain. The above building is one of them. I am a Muslim but I know that the emblem seen on the building is a Sikh emblem. That's how I differentiated it but can any one tell me what does it signify ? I was also researching about few of the most prominent Sikh families in my hometown of Dera Ismail Khan who left after partition in 1947. If I post some details about them would any one be able to help me locate some information on them ? Any sort of help in this regard would be appreciated. Most of them were followers of some religious Sikh saints. If I can get help from any quarter, I would post the details. Let me know.

you are basically setting up an agency which will deal with cleaning services. First of all, you shouldn't worry. This is no different to a farmer who employs work force to do the work. The farmer may end up doing the work himself or just act like a manager. From a sikhi point of view i think this is fine. Work is work as far as cleaning is concerned it is a lot better than quite a lot of modern businesses. Finally, I hope you know what you are doing because the cleaner's shouldnt be paid directly. The client should pay you and you should pay the client. With your current business model, how would you prevent people from going direct with the client? How do you know how many hours a cleaner has worked at a client? Also make sure you have insurances etc as you may be liable if a cleaner steals something from your clients. Finally, Good Luck with your business.