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Don't parcharks (ragis, kirtanis etc.) have families to look after? Do they want to be beggars? Why don't you become a kirtani, and do the kirtan for free? Go on... I'm pretty sure, it's your kind of people who will pay £10k to a vulgar singer, but will cry giving £10 a kirtani.

its about time we stopped giving maya to the fool singers and gave more to our ragis and parcharks who will help our future generations to follow the true path of our Guru SGGS ji Maharaj. :respect: , and stop our kids becoming addicts etc

As you are probably already finding out, unfortunately a lot more arguing takes place on this forum compared to any learning or teaching...

Do not rush into anything yet,it could be just a phase you are going through, it would not be right to disrespect the sikh or any other religion by converting and then going back or jumping onto another path, like you say its only been a few months, give it time, do plenty of research regarding sikh history and prayer translations, drinking alcohol, smoking etc is against sikhi and a big no when handling or praying using sikh prayers/writings. No need to dress like a sikh until you are 100% ready to become one, it is not just about the appearance of a sikh. you have to mentally commit to the way of life first and be ready to submit to the Guru fully and for ever, then when and if you are ready after Amrit then kirpan etc need to be worn (you need to do research regarding this), as for not liking the turban, that will definitely not help if you wish to become a sikh, like i said read about sikh history and take one step at a time , if you get peace from just meditation the just keep doing that, you will know when and if you are ready could be soon or many many years or even never, but please do not disrespect our religion or yourself by converting then deciding you were not ready etc. Good luck

Thanks Gupunknown, - brother Palarmux, my first advice would be to have a look at our youtube channel and see if many of your questions are already answered on there. Dont worry too much about your actions (although its good to give up alcohol etc) but focus more on learning and getting to understand Gurbani (the Guru's words). We have gone through an english explanation of the very first prayer all Sikhs should read every day, the Japji Sahib. Go through that. Good luck to you and you can join our facebook group (Basicsof.sikhi) for more info. Sat Sri Akaal

Www.youtube.com/#/user/basicsofsikhi

Tell them you wear your beard like Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Do not look to others for "acceptance". This is what you're after by wanting people to say nice things about you. In looking for acceptance, you have to look like them - cut hair, no beard, etc. If they would make you jevan mukt in return and merge you to the Guru, it would be a worthwhile sacrifice. They can't. They're engrossed in Maya. Rise above it. Let them say what they want and let it go past you with affecting you. A true Sikh looks to his Guru for inspiration and for reward. Go to Him to seek validation and acceptance.

LOL, oh vi kehnda hona ah kithe fass gya aake, eh te ikk dujje di dhoun vaddan nu firde...meri toppi kithe shadduge

I was referring to the forum as a whole, and not this thread in particular. People argue about lots of other things on here, not just what is gurmat and what is manmat. Every Sikh has a duty to educate the misguided, I agree with that and it's important to explain the correct Gurmat way of doing things. But so many times on this forum these discussions boil over into arguments, personal insults, the bashing of other religions etc. I have been reading this forum for many years, and only post every now and then. I never get involved in back and forth arguing or rebuttal of points. If I think something is wrong or something needs to be said, I make my point once and then tune out. Sometimes you can argue your point till you are blue in the face, but people don't want to listen and you can never change their way of thinking. A lot of the time on here, it's like the blind leading the blind.

This person is new to sikhi tell him the basics, you seem to be going to deep as usual, when he says he wants to learn, then he needs to learn about our Guru Sahibs firstly there principles, keerat kamai, vand shakna, naam simran, keep away from vices(alcohol etc). The third eye (i think he means the dasam dwar), divine bliss are very very difficult to obtain and only by Guru ji's grace, sikh principles seeming like walking in water (dont believe that you make it sound so simple) when Guru Sahib ji tells us many time this path is very difficult, sharper than the edge of a sword, smaller than a hair. As for not suggesting drinking wine or alcohol, i am not saying you are, but some posts on this topic dont seem to be condeming this action,rather they are giving this person a pat on the back. What i am saying is lets be blunt and tell this person what is anti Gurmat from the offset or we will be answerable to Guru sahib ji not him. I am not arguing but can not and will not sit by let this person believe that wine etc is in anyway acceptable in sikhi. so lets all give him the correct info

Anything promoting the plight of Sikhs, injustices etc is a good thing. I never liked jazzy b when i was growing up, infact i despised him. I first saw him stand up for the Rajoana case, he didnt need to- i don't think it further his career in any way- but he chose to. Then for Sadda Haq, initially it was ok, but when there was immense pressure, ban placed and the whole team under the firing like - then even SGPC lost their nerve and backed out! Jazzy B could have easily saved him self, and said, its character portrayal, i'm an artist who is paid to portray various roles, and I regret playing this bhaagi song - But he didnt! In fact he went into all media and said- this is the Truth! I stand by it. I am so encouraged to see mainstream artists and Panthic soch now aligned!

Kirtanis have families to support in India. And it's not like they are well off or rich. They don't make that much money. I personally don't mind seeing our kirtanis brothers making money.

Lol. Yeah their family doesn't stay in the gurdwara. Besides most gurdware take a percentage from the money they get. My dads best friend from his childhood is a raagi. He has a family to support in India, with no other way of making money. And this thing about affording raagis? What? When you have an akhand path at home the gurdwara will send some over. I think most people who do an akhand path can also afford to give a few £s to a raagi. What else can these people do? At least they are bothering to do parchaar. I feel sorry for the dhaddis. At some gurdware they put them right at the end, so most sangat has left. These guys probably make like £20 in a day, this £20 is split between 3/4 people. If a Punjabi singer can get a few thousand pounds for attending a wedding/party, why can't a raagi get paid to sing at a wedding? Whats wrong about that?

Honh sochda honha kai ihe kee kendheaa. Jerhe swaal puchda oho answer karo, larhai karni bandh kardo.

veer ji tusi sahi gal kithi ah par apne ah noo bi soch samaj ke advice deni chahi di ah, as for basic of sikhi eh logh kee sikha rehai hain, keh daru chandni chahidi ah par ko gal nahi bani sikho. :no:

Chad para kithai saipa pai laya advise de khe..lol...mein sochaiya cc holi holi gurmat naal jor dai ehnu ..mahapursha tuo tarikai sikhiya cc parchar tai tung... jeh eh simran karda aa pher hor encourage kariya..menu ki patta cc hor kisne vadda kundi ki kundaaaaaaaaaaaaa hii fasa dena vich..!!l lol

because you seem to be giving the most advice (nothing wrong with that), except for one post (not yours), no one even mentions Guru ji or that it is against his teachings, instead it seems you are all trying to score points and show how knowledgable you are about sikhi, this is a new person to our religion and we should be putting our Guru first not showing how clever we are.

MEGA LOL! Exactly what I was gonna type!

Here is what basic of sikh bhaji wrote: Yet you have a problem with my posts where i clearly said to avoid alcohol ..really? It does not rocket scientist to find out you have issues with me? Can we discuss further via pm bro? Esi gore samne apni community da zaloos kaddi janai aa vaad/vivaad karke, koi parda rakho? My last post on this topic..so we are really going off-topic here.

Palarmux Take it easy....don't push anything on yourself....The word "Sikh" itself means "to learn", so it's life-long process.....as human beings that's what we do, keep learning something, good or bad......but learning good is all about "Sikhism" Keep doing meditation......like N30Singh ji said the breath technique works for many... Sikhism is not about converting others. It actually emphasizes on the fact that a person should follow his/her own religion, but whole heartedly, shouldn't manipulate it according to one's own needs. Now that doesn't mean one can't convert to Sikhism. You can move further depending on how your spiritual level goes. This will start some internal changes, meaning getting rid of bad habits etc by itself. You'll notice yourself. And by reading the translation you'll get the essense of Sikhism. This link provides you with plenty of books in Engish. Hope this helps. http://www.gurmatveechar.com/literature?browse=English_Books

He is so cute :D You will find dirt here there everywhere. On this forum, in Gurdwara/<osque etc or i must say in your own home. Cheater, lair, hatters are there everywhere. Very rare are those who can roar like lions otherwise you will find many dogs in a face of lions and that's a fact. How many amritdhari bothers to do good deeds? very few and i have seen a criminal who helped people in need. So my dear child what you can do you can be a good sikh of Guru. Don't look around just try to be A SIKH OF GURU that's it and insha allah ..!! your problems will be reduced. I faced the same problem but i don't bother to walk with people but rather i chose to walk Guru's style or way :D :D Waheguru, Amin

Veerji i respect your views, but this is to deep for this person , he says he was suicidal a few months ago and now wants to come into sikhi, and that drinking wine is good for his health, this thinking does not add up to someone who we can call a sikh, my view is this that he has found some peace in listening to snatam kaur etc, but some would argue is she a sikh ,but that another topic, we have enough people who declare themselves sikhs but dont want to follow sggs ji's teaching without adding any more, lets not be wishy washy and tell people straight if you drink alcohol, smoke, eat meat, take drugs as well as many others, lie, slander, commit adultry and dont want to follow sggsji then you are not a sikh instead off patting every one on the back who wants to a sikh but says oh its ok to do certain things as i feel God will understand but then if they dont want to follow Guru ji then they are not sikhs. Apologies if this sounds harsh but lets stop wrapping it up in cotton wool.

Lets get back on track, take your caste discussions to a different thread. Regardig the video: Hopefully Punjabi youth will start to wake up with new media

Drinking alcohol while praying or prior to praying is a big no no and disrespectful, not to mention you can not have full concentration, would be even better if you pray after a shower, as the saying goes cleanliness is next to Godliness

I actually have new question in my mind: How I will pray waheguru? how I should put my hands? how I start my prayer, how I end it??

WaheguruJiKaKhalsa!!WaheguruJiKiFateh!! 1. Is it turban necessary? I live in Finland and this country is pretty Racist. I dont scare that people laugh at me if I wear it, but I just dont like the way it look. Yes it is necessary . always keep your head covered 2. Is it ok to drink wine once in a while? I dont mean to get drunk - I just like the taste of wine and its becoming my hobby. No, it is not . it is forbidden 3. Any tips for meditation? Sometimes I have problems with meditation, I just dont get that chill/relaxing "state". I also have difficulties to open third eye, not sure if these 2 problems has connect or something. Meditate on the lords name "Waheguru" only if you take GuruGranthSahib ji as your guru . Meditating on lords name without a guru is considered a sin , in almighty's court and that person is considered thief 4. I dont get that why we should chant while we meditate, I like to be in silence and just relax. Is it wrong? I usually chant along when I listen some sikh artist (guruganesha sinhh, snatam kaur etc.) answered in your 3 question 5. Is it ok if I dont wear Kirtan, kanga and kaccha? I mean I just dont have money for those at the moment, and carrying knife in public is crime in Finland. if you get baptised , it is neccessary to cary kirpan all times. we consider dying before giving up our 5 K's . if you are not baptised . you dont have to wear them 6. Is it Tattoos forbidden in sikhism? Yes, we like to keep our body as it is given by dont , do not like to alter it. Main reason . Hair cutting is forbidden . so even smallest of hair on body is important and forbidden to cut so yes tatoos are forbidden after you are baptised

If you like snatam kaur try Niranjan Kaur too - really awesome... and best of luck to you on your journey.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqmh3pMg6u4

It's so easy to talk... But as harder to do. Why don't you actually become the "change" and do kirtan for free?

One have to be very careful - third eye, trikurti, Dasam dvaar are all reference points but they are not destination lot of people get caught up in resonance panch shabads or light but in fact they are part of subtle element for eg sound is element of air, and light is element of fire.... so it's part of sukhsam elements. Atma paratma bhramgyan is way beyond dasam dvar or third eye.. In fact for giani they are mental concept based on perception, and distractions... only thing which goes all the way to bhramgyan atma paratma da Milap is Teebar Tam Bairaag and tyaag of ego via self inquiry , people can easily can get caught up in experiences in 3rd eye or dasam dvaar which further retains the ego as there is still individuality even acknowledgement of such experience or thought that feels good has sign of individuality. I will end with sakhi of sant isher singh ji, at dasam dvaar all powers came to sant ji with hands folded.. Sant ji rejected them all consider them mithiya as they had teebar bairaag to meet again with their preetam atma paratma.

Neo ji Time bring many changes. Canada of 1984 is not same as now.That time sikhs were very few there. So they could be propagated against by using dirty tricks. Today's canada has large number of sikhs and they can be assertive if they know their rights. So old tricks will not hold. We should change our mindset accordingly. It is your country as much as of others. So do not be apologetic if some sikh has committed a bad act.No one is going to come after you for that. Law is there to deal with such people. Every one is not saint here.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Dib has been derived from Sanskrit word – Divya - and it means divine, secret, occult etc. Drishtee means nazar, eye, seeing power etc. Dib Drisht means powered eye or divine eye. In Mahabharata, Sanjaya is said to have Divya Drishtee and he was able to see the events of battle of Mahabharata from many miles and narrate them to Dhritraashter – father of the Kaurav brothers. It is a commonly used word in the Hindu Granths. In Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, this word has been used few times. It means to have divine eye. In Sri Anand Sahib, Sri Guru Amardaas Ji Maharaj has written as follows: KAHO NANAK, IH NETR ANDH SE, SATGUR MILIAI, DIB DRISHT HOYEE (Sri Guru Ji by using the stamp of “Nanak” says that my eyes before meeting Satguru were blind and after meeting Satguru, I have got Dib Drishtee). One with Dib Drishtee can see the unseen. One with Dib Drishtee can see the events that are not visible to normal person. From: http://ikonkaar.blogspot.co.uk/2006/03/dib-drisht_14.html Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh

brahmin, baniya, munshi and bachpan... i heard it from kam1825 veer ji's site http://kam1825.podbean.com/?s=people+to+avoid but i don't know how bachpan is engrossed in maya...but thats another topic

Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh, Read/listen to katha on Sri Suraj Prakash Granth for a detailed list. Of the top of my head the list includes: Kazi, One who deals with alcohol, One who deals in falsehood, Brahmin, Kaami, One engrossed in the 5 Kalishas, Mayadhari etc Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh

I'm guessing your trying to do simran internally with the voice of the mind. The technique I've have found the most beneficial in helping still the mind first is to put your dhiyaan into your voice just in front of your mouth. Lock in your ears into listening at that position as you say Waheguru. Then watch has your mind begins sit and listen. If it begins to wonder grab it and bring it back there and force it to listen. You will then become more aware when your mind wants to take flights and you will restrain it. With practice your mind will automatically get used to focusing and listening to the shabad. After it learns to sit still then lower the volume and make sure it still sits there. Eventually your dhiyaan will remain in your ears when your japping whether verbally or internally. The ears/mind will become super sensitive and trained that when ever jap is occurring it will automatically learn to sit and listen. Your anand will increase and then with Guru's grace your off..... If you still find your mind is very active, then jap with your eyes open for a while but keep the focus on the sound of the jaap. If you keep the dhiyaan on the sound in front of lips/mouth you will find that as your mind becomes still the eyes will automatically close. Hope it helps ji...

That's what I do when working out. It's a good way to tie a solid dastar without it falling off. But instead of loose Joorha I tie a regular tight joorha and when wrapping the Dastar bring one round of Larh around the joorha(and kanga). It can almost be as solid as a dumala especially when the Kanga is in place.

Remember perfectness is not achieved overnight. It is a long journey, one where you will falter and stumble but pick yourself up again. The best of luck.

lehhhh yaar bananneya tenu hajay vi nai pata lagga eh ladaayi nai eh te sannu bimaari aa Punjabiyaan nu :D :D koi na toppi aale bhai nu vi pata laggan de

Gurmukh and Sants same thing in avastha..so are we supposed to be sant followers now? Every sikh has a personal relationship between them and guru..why drag sant/gurmukh- middle person...? I am sure they have good advise, they are good for sangat..even then they have personal relationship between them and guru just like we do and their relationship does not supersede their fellow sikh relationship between them and guru...why drag them in this particular matter? It's clearly an sikh emotional feeling towards guru sahib saroop being burned alive..!!!!!!!

Muslim Barber In Jammu Refuses to Cut a Sikh's Dharri, Says Won't commit a "Sacrilegious Act" "what a Sikh got to do in a barber shop?" Questions Barber Jammu is one of those places where Sikhi Among the Youth is the Strongest. This is why the Barber was shocked to see a Sikh in his shop.

In your posts first post you talk about concentrating on meditation second post start reading Gurbani Third post you talk about third eye fourth post as above Fifth post get into meditation instead of drinking. At no point can i see that you are clearly stating that drinking alcohol is against sikhi, or talking about any of the following questions he has but instead you keep going on about meditating and refer to drinking alcohol and eating meat as a dietary thing (which is partly correct), rather telling him it is against our Gurus wishes, at no point do you even mention our Guru which is more important than the dietary aspect or any views you may have. 1. Is it turban necessary? I live in Finland and this country is pretty Racist. I dont scare that people laugh at me if I wear it, but I just dont like the way it look. 2. Is it ok to drink wine once in a while? I dont mean to get drunk - I just like the taste of wine and its becoming my hobby. 3. Any tips for meditation? Sometimes I have problems with meditation, I just dont get that chill/relaxing "state". I also have difficulties to open third eye, not sure if these 2 problems has connect or something. 4. I dont get that why we should chant while we meditate, I like to be in silence and just relax. Is it wrong? I usually chant along when I listen some sikh artist (guruganesha sinhh, snatam kaur etc.) 5. Is it ok if I dont wear Kirtan, kanga and kaccha? I mean I just dont have money for those at the moment, and carrying knife in public is crime in Finland. 6. Is it Tattoos forbidden in sikhism?

A lot of people forget that although gianis/raagis get paid a salary, it's usually very low, even when you take into account their free accommodation and food. Most of them have families in India and they are no doubt sending money back home and paying their children's school fees etc so I doubt their salaries stretch very far. Also, they have to put up with a lot of rubbish from the gurdwara committees and a lot of us wouldn't do that. So all in all, I don't see any issue in sangat giving them donations, it's not like they are going around begging for it. Nobody is being forced to give them anything, people give money because they want to. It's very easy to say that people should do all kinds of seva in gurdwaras for free and there should be no paid employees in the gurdwara and we shouldn't bring gianis/raagis over from India, but hardly any youth from UK/USA/Canada would be willing to quit education or their jobs and do full-time seva at their local gurdwaras, as most of the time their parents are pushing them to study more and work hard to get a job with a high salary. It's sad that gianis/raagis do seva in gurughar day and night, and yet they are looked down upon and disrespected by most of the sangat and treated like something on the bottom of someone's shoe by the committee members, yet it should really be the other way around. Hardly any parents in UK/USA/Canada would be happy if their kids turned around and said I want to be a giani/raagi, but instead our parents are happy to encourage us to spend our whole lives chasing high salaries and maya in endless circles as we can never be satisfied with what we have and will always want more. But then when we come to the gurdwara and open our wallets to find some change for the golak or raagis on stage, we always hunt for the lowest-value coin. A lot of us need to re-evaluate our priorities and attitudes, otherwise our religion and society cannot flourish how we want it to.

You have to find a balance hating people is not the answer, there is good and bad in everyone,as for help do ardas keep your rehat and nitnem and naam simran above all, dont go ott and try to be a brahmgyani, look at your own faults first write them down and look at the good in others and not their faults, hurt no ones feeling , if some one hurts yours try not to get upset or emotional, give it time, 4 months after amrit your emotions need time to balance you will look back and say what was i thinking at that time, keep praying do ardas he does listen , go to Darbar when it is empty sit and talk to maharaj he truly listens, works for me.

LOL at this post First you call sikhi weak including this forum where YOU are asking for help have you ever actually helped anyone yourself or are you waiting on these "chola" wearers to help you out first, instead of cussing people down why dont you change yourself and maybe when people see someone doing better and helping people they will be inspired unless the above rant of yours is only so other people change for your benefit!

Who are these 12 types of people?

Let's have quality over quantity :smile2: .

i think its the other way round, mahapursh spend a part of their kamai on helping us...

Give the youth a slap and the Barbar a prize money

some people are stupid enough to believe this guy personally i would give hime a nice sharp slap!!

Ha ha he said, asi vehm ch nai paunde kheke kita kise ne, then after said somebody done black magic. and the guy said "yes i feel calmer". He must of thought then what a kamla eh uk de jameo nu budhu kina sauka hai.

Duality is like being double-minded or saying one thing but doing another. For example, there may be a person who by his appearance looks like a good Sikh and by his outward actions and clothing he may seem pure, but if inside he is consumed by kaam, krodh, lobh, moh and ahankaar then that is duality. If a man has a full dhari and wears a dastar but drinks alcohol, then that is duality. If a girl is amritdhari, wears a dastar and still does beadbi of kesh then that is duality. Another example, someone who comes into Guru Ji's darbar, and matha teks. By doing matha tek, he is saying Guru Ji everything I have is yours, I sacrifice my dhan man tan to you. By bowing before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and all of the teachings and hukams and wisdom contained within Guru Ji, we are saying I accept everything and will follow them. Yet, if you matha tek to Guru Ji but refuse to follow gurmat then that is duality- something which a lot of us are guilty of (me included). Doing matha tek should not just be a ritual or something that we do without thinking about what it actually means. Doing namaskar to Guru Ji and bowing your head means giving up your mind, body and soul and following the path set by Guru Ji and giving up manmat to become a true Gurmukh. Duality is like having one foot in one boat and then the other foot in a different boat- you will never reach your destination instead you will sink. Sorry I don't think I explained this very well but I hope you get the general idea of what I am trying to say. This is what Guru Angad Dev Ji says on ang number 1037: ਸਲਾਮੁ ਜਬਾਬੁ ਦੋਵੈ ਕਰੇ ਮੁੰਢਹੁ ਘੁਥਾ ਜਾਇ ॥ Salam Jabab Dhovai Karae Mundtahu Ghuthha Jae || One who offers both respectful greetings and rude refusal to his master, has gone wrong from the very beginning. ਨਾਨਕ ਦੋਵੈ ਕੂੜੀਆ ਥਾਇ ਨ ਕਾਈ ਪਾਇ ॥੨॥ Naanak Dhovai Koorreea Thhae N Kaee Pae ||2|| O Nanak, both of his actions are false; he obtains no place in the Court of the Lord. ||2||