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Hindus and Muslims are two different species. Very different from one another. A Hindu is good as long as he is your co slave, but once you live under his political domination, he will forget friendship and begin to act like the boss. The Sunni Muslim is neither your friend as a co slave nor as your ruler, he will turn on you either way. The only option for the Khalsa is Raaj because we have lived under the political domination of Sunni Muslims and Hindus. Both are unfair as rulers. Khalsa Raaj is the only solution. Sikhs were historically fair rulers. The rights of the Hindus and Muslims were protected, no one was persecuted. I like the way the Kurdish people conduct themselves. They have remained neutral between the sectarian violence in the middle east but at the same time anyone who comes to their area for protection, they will protect them regardless of their religious or sectarian beliefs. That's how we should be.

Personally I like the old instruments and lament that it's no longer widely used as it once was. Sikh Sansthas should focus on spread Raag Vidya in Tanti Saaj. But the thing about Harmonium is that it is very easy to learn and has allowed untold amounts of Sikhs to perform kirtan which otherwise they would not be able to. Harmonium is so easy to learn that you can literally learn it from the internet while that is not possible for stringed instruments which require an Ustaad to be physically present to teach you and even then it will take years and years to learn. That is not to say Vaaja can replace the beautiful sounds of stringed instruments, but if there is no Ustad near you, then surely there is nothing wrong in learning the Vaaja which many unmatched experts of Raag Music like Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan had not problem singing to. Secondly, for those who don't have knowledge in Raag music, but sing with pyar in simple tunes like Brahmgiani Sant Attar Singh Mastuane wale who would do Kirtan to Shaine and Dholki with simple Dharnas. Would such kirtan not be parvaan at the darbar of Guru Sahib?

Another factor in this issue is that the Gurdwara runs a number of schools in the area where a majority of students are Muslims. The Gurdwara committee needs to rethink their acts of charity and now refocus on the Sikhs rather than educate a community of ungrateful Muslims. The committee should be looking after the poorer sections of the Sikh community such as the Banjaras, Ramaiyas or the converted former Hindu chamars who became Sikhs in the late 80s. Why not educate them rather than the Muslims. http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/girl-s-college-may-provide-healing-touch-to-riot-torn-saharanpur/article1-1245741.aspx

Channel your efforts into learning proper raad vidiya and traditional puraatan instruments that existid in the court of Guru Hargobind Maharaj... You do know that the Vaaja is not a atraditional Sikhi/Kirtan or even Indian instrument it's origins are the "european harmonium" it was introdiced by the British during times of the Raj to make Kirtan sound closer to church organ music. Yet another one of the long list of lost/changed/perverted Sikhi traditions. If you really want to learn proper Kirtan first learn real classical music and raag vidiya then learn Sarangi, Rabaab, Dilruba, Saranda etc etc.

In the Sikh homeland you can't say waheguru Ji ka Khalsa. Waheguru Ji ki fateh and the high priests bow to badal. Future of Punjab?

Saranda and sarangi are played exactly the same, the difference being the shape of the bottom of the instrument, sarangi is rectangle, whereas saranda is round, which gives the two instruments different tones. otherwise the strings and their layout is exactly the same. The higher notes on the saranda are also slighter more awkward for hand position because of the soundboard. Neither instruments have fretboards.

I talked to Surjit Singh of Raj academy as I bought via his organisation shop ...he said that once you learn Dilruba Saranda is easy to pick up because you have practised on a fretboard so have the note distances and finger techniques down I'm not as familiar with sarangi but I think it also has a fretboard... so in theory I feel judging by Singh ji's advice it would be a possible thing.

Here is more commentary on compatible mahavaks(pointing towards absolute reality/truth) in both vedas (4 out of 16000 indirect/4000 shaloks/surti in vedas) and gurbani pdf page- 510 More info on definition of mahavaks and commentary on them: http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/74815-deep-gnosis-behind-mahavak-in-gurbani/

I hear what you're saying, but there are times when you have to let them know that our love is not endless. The audacity of the muslims to carry out that attack on the Sikhs in saharanpur is unbelievable. How many muslim jamaats from india and outside have condemned their actions? That is when we know whether there are any good people from amongst them.

Yes so tell them that when it comes to vaisakhi or June when they try to portray themselves as Sikhs to sell their CDs

source: japji sahib teeka by sant gurbachan singh ji bhindranwale likhak sant kartar singh bhindranwale Found very interesting commentary on gurbani/gurmat position on vedas by sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranwale as mentioned in japji sahib teeka pdf page- 72 below and also post by tsingh on sikhawareness.com ( http://www.sikhawareness.com/topic/10748-a-requested-clarification-about-gurmat/ ) . Please see-attached photos from the japji sahib teeka which can be downloaded from link http://gurmatveechar.com/books/Steeks_and_Teekas/Sant_Kartar_Singh_(Bhindrawale)/

thank you jiiiiii !

Guru ji sadddi bahn fadan .. it feels like sahnu har passe rulna peh reha.. ajj Guru sahb de bol yaad aunde ne.. jab eh karan bipran ki reet me na karoon inki parteet.. Singho one thing that I felt in these topics was hate... let them do what they're good at.. let us do what our gurus taught us.. to spread love.. guru hargobind sahib constructed a mosque for the same muslims that martyred guru arjan dev ji.. bir rass is important and guru sahb sahnu bal bakhshan ke assi apni koum di rakhya kar sakiye.. but ohi bal bakshan ke assi kisse innocent de ahit baray na sochiye

By the way, about 2 weeks ago in Boston we had Sikhs protesting against Israel for killing Palestinians, and few days ago we saw Sikhs start a petition asking President Obama to refuse Modi entry into US as he was responsible for the massacre of 3000 Muslims in Gujarat. I have already seen a number of opinions and videos on Facebook claiming these Saharanpur clashes to be a conspiracy hatched by the Hindutva forces. Either we are still not aware as to who our real friends and real enemies are, or we fail to categorize who is our worst enemy, i.e. on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the worst enemy, where would you place Hindus and where would you place Muslims?

All said and done, the next step should be to try and help our fellow Sikhs who have been hit, both physically and financially. This is the time to use our Dasvand for their seva, whatever bit we can do to help them at this point to come back on their feet and not have to become dependent. It was very much hurting to see them financially devastated. One was a Sikh who had moved back from Manchester, UK and started a tire business less than an year ago, his shop was raised to the ground. I will be honest, it was quite painful to see Sikh men and women in fear and literally begging for security, especially when deep down in your heart you see the Khalsa as the protector of the weak. But lets be honest, any human being, who for no fault of his/her, is all of a sudden attacked in his/her home and has his/her business set on fire, he/she would react the same way. There is a video on Youtube where Zee News has investigated this matter and claimed that this was pre-planned, based on the fact that (a.) the cops refused to assist the Sikhs saying they had no orders to help, and (b.) the fire department office was set on fire prior to burning the shops, thus ensuring that no one could help the Sikhs by putting out the fires. Then there is another where a Singh threatens retaliation:

I knew as soon as this came up, it would turn into a debate about Raag Vidiya. But it's good. The vaaja is so entrenched in the Sikh pysche now, that if we hear someone say Imlearning to do kirtan, we picture them with a vaaja. Bhaji, this question has been asked and answered many times on this forum. I dont know where you are getting your info from that the sarangi and sitar are not indian instruments, and the rabab is of many variants, the most recognizable variant being the afghan/persian. Who invented the sarangi ? Bhaji, that is just a scare story that tanti saaj is so so hard, and that raags are so so complicated. Raags can be very simple and the saaj needs basic bowing and fingering to be able to play. You dont need to play a tanti saaj like a darbari raagi. harmonium is easier, but tanti saaj is not that much harder. what a star!

That's okay.... Pm me sometime Are you serious? Your have gone!!! That's so strange... Mine are still here, going round and round!

Both sides are wrong. There are no angels here. Hamas started this by firing rockets and they do it from areas populated by civilians, so when Israelis attack, they end up killing civilians. Israel on their part has used disproportionate amount of firepower. Previously they would do target assassinations of Hamas leaders which was actually much more humane as they are the main culprits and plus no civilians would get killed. Another mistake they made was to weaken PLO which resulted in the rise of Hamas. At least PLO is a moderate organisation and they are accepted by the international community as the representatives of the Palestinians. But now that Hamas is leading Gaza, the Israelis should accept that as reality and stop treating them as a minor terrorist organisation. They should deal with them. By not dealing with them, they are just making them more and more extreme. Allow bilateral trade, let their economy grow. That is the only way to peace. Personally I am neutral on this subject. Sunni Muslims are such that they do not tolerate non Muslim minorities no matter how much you give them support at the end of the day you are just a hell bound Kafir to them, nothing more. And Israelis lost my sympathy when I found out they along with the UK sent advisers to India to help guide Indian army into Sri Darbar Sahib in 1984. Currently, they are one of the biggest strategic allies of India. And in future if Sikhs ever have an armed conflict with Delhi hakoomat, you can be sure the Indian armed forces would again get special training from the Israelis.

Every time I read a news article in which Sikh groups say their "feelings were hurt" or that the others "hurt our sentiments" I just cringe and can read no more. We need to tell our Sikh leaders to stop using these terms. We need to educate them as to what these English language terms imply in the English language. They need to understand how, in the English language, these terms imply a contexxt of immature children with very fragile feelings. Not what you expect from adults and warriors. Say it like it is. Hate Crimes committed by Muslims against Sikhs. Enough of this childish language.

forgot to mention gora also has raag vocal practice vids ..

Johnny Veer, Also think this from this perspective - the land dispute in Saharanpur was on for the past 16 years, why this dispute turned into riots by politicians NOW only when SFJ created a online petition raising voice against a genocide of the Muslim community in India, thus raising some hopes of 2 minorities getting together who have met similar GENOCIDE by the same majority?

Point is not the Hindu role in this. But what was the majboori of a mob of tens of thousands of Indian Muslims who rioted against Sikhs and this after the way SFJ tried to show good will by fighting for Muslim victims of 2002 Gujarat riots which has nothing to do with us. Then During 2002 riots, Sikhs were sending trucks of food for Muslim riot victims. Sikhs need to keep their nose out of other people's business because Indian Muslims will never appreciate any of these good will gestures. We need to read and learn from history instead of learning from practical expereince when we get Dhokha from the people we help

It makes it bad, Yes I agree, the intstruments you speak of were introduced because they fit in with Raag Vidiya , different instruments accompany different Raags they are used to influence the different moods and emotions of the various shabads they accompany. What is bad is that all of this traditional Vidiya appears to have been lost and instead has been replaced largely by just the Vaaja and Tabla on kirtan stages, because maybe they are easier to learn. The effect is not the same, it is a discredit to Raag Vidiya and Kirtan to not have the correct instruements and knowledge of the accompanying Raags,.

The thing about turning the other cheek is that you get slapped on the other cheek. The more you appease, the more it is seen as weakness by certain quarters. Unfortunately the animal mentality is the only mentality certain Middle Eastern desert based ideoligies understand.

round about that time, Baba Santa Singh had a white beard, he was in his 60s. The above shows Sant Jarnail Singh Singh giving Baba Kahn Singh a siropa. Sant Ji mentions him once in a speech (also available on video) where he says that " the police have attacked several Sikhs and also Babas. They tried to attack Tarna Dal group but when Baba Kahn Singh prepared themselves (for battle) the police backed down..." I beleive at one time they must have had some prem for one another, but after Budha Dal fiasco, I guess he sided with them. He was shot by Sukhdev Singh Sakhira in Nander. http://1984tribute.com/Actions.php?id=7

lol..sikha de apne syaapee mukde nai te iss issue de 4 page bnaa dite discuss kr kr ke....

Total manmat soch here. Khalsa can never touch an enemy's woman. Muslim women are our.sisters. Secondly, why should Punjabi muslims be punished for what bhayya muslims do.

I do not belong to that group either. Bhai Randhir Singh was a great gursikh and being a gursikh he is my elder brother. Therefore, a Sikh must listen to what an elder brother has to say on the subject. You may disagree with him but his research of Gurbani must be refuted based on rationality not by categorizing him in a group. By your logic one can denounce Taksal’s interpretation just because it comes from Taksal. This is absurd. Have you even read his books? If you do not personally like him then read Pandit Kartar Singh Dakha’s refutations to Hindu Arya Samajists. You are only hurting yourself by keeping away from Gurbani grammar. Guru Rakha

Gurbani is highly misinterpreted in that article. Bhai Randhir Singh Ji has refuted these in his books and presented correct interpretation keeping grammar and Gurbani’s message in view.