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There is a reason people use the phrase 'playing gatka'. Nobody plays Muay Thai or Krav Maga. These are authentic and effective martial arts. Gatka, I'm sorry to say, is not. Just try twirling your kirpan around in the air like your Gatka Ustaad taught you in a real fight, and see what happens. Whilst you're being theatrical and busting out your epic roundhouse talwar moves two feet up in the air, some lafunga will punch a table knife into your sides. Shastar Vidiya was the battlefield art of the Puraatan SInghs. It actually was effective, so effective in fact that it was banned by the British. It pretty much choked and died, and Gatka is only a dim echo of this. The modern gatka fad is, in my opinion, an embodiment of what we Sikhs have become - overweight/underweight softies playing at being soldiers, dressing like soldiers, talking like soldiers, but not being soldiers. More interested in the pageantry and giving it the mouth than actually doing something. We are obsessively nostalgic, leeching off of the sterling martial reputation of our ancestors to protect our fragile egos from the realization that we are a shadow of what we once were.

hi guys i just released my kickstarter campaign for a Garja Singh Sikh statue would love to hear what you guys think as i think its a great way to bring our old stories back to life. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/610818206/statue-of-18th-century-sikh-warrior-garja-singh <iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/610818206/statue-of-18th-century-sikh-warrior-garja-singh/widget/video.html" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"> </iframe> affordable high quality 12 inch statue, of the famous 18th century Sikh warrior Garja Singh. The sculpture will be 12 inches tall and will be cold cast in resin bronze. There will also be a real bronze version which will be limited to 10 casts only. I have researched and carefully crafted each and every component in 3D. The images below show my reference source material used to recreate Garja Singh. Sikh history and art are my passion and I have always been inspired by stories about the brave Sikh warriors who who rose to forge their own Sikh empire in Punjab during the 1700’s. I wanted to create something that would remind people of their bravery and celebrate their inspiration sacrifice. This is my way of sharing their story with the next generation. The three quotes below are written by Qazi Nur Mohammed, a persian war chronicler who accompanied Ahmed Shah Durrani during his invasion of India in 1764. During the invasion he wrote about their encounters with the Sikhs. INSPIRATION This character takes inspiration from the story of the martyrs Bota Singh & Garja Singh who were legends who awoke the punjab with their audacious acts of defiance. In 1739, Zaikriya Khan, the Mughal governor of Lahore launched an all out campaign of persecution of the Sikhs. Rewards were offered for the capture and extermination of Sikhs. It was declared lawful to plunder Sikh houses and to seize their property. Thousands of Sikh families were murdered. Cartloads of their heads were taken to Lahore for obtaining rewards from Zakariya. When Bota and Garja Singh were passing a mughal checkpoint they heard mughal soldiers mocking the Sikhs saying that the government had wiped them out and they now hide in the jungles like dogs. Bhai Bota Singh and Garja Singh were deeply offended and decided to teach them a lesson. One of the only depictions of Bota & Garja Singh They took over the checkpoint and sent a letter to Zakiriya Khan that they would now be charging a Khalsa tax from anyone who wants to cross as they, the Khalsa army of two, are the true sovereign kings of Punjab. News of the letter passed far and wide and the people were amazed by the brave act of defiance they had displayed. This embarrassed the Mughal Governer and he immediately dispatched a battalion of Mughal guards to deal with them. The battalion sent forward 10 guards who were dispatched swiftly by the two Singhs. Fearing death the battalion charged forward and the brave Singhs died fighting in battle. The whole of Punjab heard of their sheer grit and determination and they knew that the Sardar Khalsa were still alive and would rule this land one day. Within 60 years the Sikhs forged the first secular Sikh Kingdom where people of all backgrounds and religions could prosper in peace. I hope you like the sculpt and support this project. the statue is only £120 and available on kickstarter Taran Singh

Prophets, gods, devtas... are just to bring righteousness in this world to an extent only. But if we ever want to know what God wants to tell us, it is only by Bhagats, Gurmukhs and Guru Sahibans, that we can get direct and accurate information or gyan from God, untill we grow spiritually wise and become one with God.... till then we have to rely only on Gurbani. God can never ever forbid somethings to some, and allow others to do the same. This is all manmat, moorakhta, agyanta. Of the islam I do not have much knowledge, so I can not quote anything to prove the the Truth on this topic; but from the Christians, we know from their Ten Commandments, one of them is : thou shall not kill. And killing is not limited to not to kill humans alone, as it is nowhere specified, but killing in general is forbidden. It is just that, to satisfy the taste of the tongue, the weak humans commit sins and then justify it, by saying, oh, it was done in the name of god...stupid people At other place is said: as you sow, so shall you reap. If one plants pain, cheating, killing, robbing ....the very same shall we get in return. The nature is made in that way. Every action has an reaction. Not that God is bad, but it is the bad done by us, whenever it maybe, which returns back. Then the foolish cry and pray : Oh God if you are there, why don´t you listen me? Why do not you take away my pain? How can you be so unjust? And blah blah blah .... Always God is blamed ....foolish people. They come here in a alien land for a limited time, and do sort of nonsense by not respecting the laws of Nature, thus they bind themselves almost perpetually. You see, if it is here in this world where we do bad or good, naturally it is here where, we have to come to pay or collect payment. And to come here, means, again we have to come in a mother´s womb, means, chaurasee ka chakar goes on and on, nonstop. The force and accuracy of karmas can never be understood fully, they are quite complicated from our actual state, but anyhow, there is no unjustice in it. Though we may not understand or even agree with it, but in the end, there is a touch of Grace of Wahiguru in the law of Karma, that also for our benefit as souls. Following is an example, of how mysterious and complicated can be the karma theory for us. We all know Dhritrashtra was blind from birth. Once in the company of Krishna, he told him, with my the tap of Yoga, I have been able to go 98 lives back, and in none of them can I see myself doing any such thing to be blind now. So Krishna, with his power, took him still 5 lives back, and showed him how in that life, while he was a small boy and was playing near a pond, how he was taking out the eyes of a worm with something sharp pointed .... From this we learn that, we do commit all sort of karmas, but we do not have any clue as per how they act or when they unfold the reactions... it is totally out our understanding, but nevertheless are our very own sown seeds. If we sow chillies, naturally we are not going to get potatoes, howsoever we may shout, cry or pray. Nature is perfectly executed as designed by Wahiguru, we can not bribe or alterate Nature. Only by respecting the laws of Nature can we be at peace here and hereafter. Some may say, we are mentally and emotionally poor, how can we know what is good or bad? Or how to respect the laws of Nature and not interfere its course? For this, there are two options. One is to, keep Sadh Kee Sangat as much as possible, in order to learn from them being virtuous. And second, by doing as said in the Bani: Saas saas simroh Gobind. Because by meditating on Wahiguru, we become pure, and we learn to stay in His Bhaana at all times, thus staying in His Bhaana, we can never do anything wrong. it is a pity, Sikhee is so simple and complete by itself, but alas, we have adulterated it, and this has made us gone astray. Then we ask ourselves, why sikh youngsters are going into islam or here or there... You see people in general are not stupid, they want logic answers to strengthen their faith, which they do not see, because there is lot of ritualization and a lot of theories, when the fact is, Sikhee is to discard everything else, and only to pratice one thing : do His Bhajan Bandagee, through His Naam Simran. The Bani says: Prabh ka Simran sabh tay oochaa. Because if ever there is anything which washes away our impurities, or karmas, past sanskaras, the filthy mind, fight and defeat Maya, yam doots or Kal Purukh himself, that is only His Naam. And Sangat jee, not only that, but it is by boarding the jahaaz of Nam, that we can surely and safely reach our True spiritual Home namely Sach Khand, which we once left long long ago and since then we have been wandering aimlessly in the mayavee creation. Not once did we hold the "pallav of His Naam in all our past countless lives. We have done all sort rituals, pilgrimages, moortee pujas, worship gods, godesses, prophets, fastings, bathing in so called holy waters and a big etc...... That is why the Bani tells us: Bahut janam vichuray teh Madhao, ehe janam Tumhare lekhey... Ninth Patshahee also tells us: Gun Gobind gaayo nahee, janam akarath keen. Here Guru Jee is telling us, if we do not sing His glory by repeating His Naam, we have wasted away our lives. So we can see, we may take any Ang from the Bani, it is nothing, but only the wadeayee of His Naam, of that Ik Oankar, Aad Niranjan Prabh Nirankara. Brothers, we may continue like this for a long time, going on tasting the rus of the sweet Bani of our beloved Guru Sahibans, and never even then getting satisfied, but on the contrary, wanting it more and more, such is the hunger an thirst, for the Pure Paviter Bani.... Sat Sree Akal.

And they get the terrorist Modi to open it!

Waheguru Life of Sant Baba Maha Harnam Singh Ji. The teacher of Sant Baba Nand Singh Ji Nanaksar Wale. Volume 1 Volume 2 and 3 Volume 4 Volume 5 Volume 7 Volume 8 Volume 9 Volume 10 Volume 11 Volume 12 Volume 13 Has the biographies of some of the Mahapurkhs

What can be done as well with growing number of sceptics and agnostics an atheists how can they apply sikhi in there lives without believing in god Alot of atheists enjoy meditating could this be a way to connect with them AN BIGGER QUESTION WHAT IS DRIVING PEOPLE AWAY FROM SIKHI Cause i have encountered people who dont really go to the gurdwara cause they think its boring or think sikhi is just a religion of rituals Though they should know sikhi is about empowerment an not rituals but the way alot of gurdwaras are run it is easy to see where they get that idea from

A word of advice: If your'e a blighty bandar like me, who thinks he (and indeed does) speak a wonderfull colloqial rustic rural punjabi NEVER EVER, when conversing with anyone actually from Punjab, try and explain the old/new Testament parable of it "being easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven". I tried. I failed. I tried because I was trying to articulate how we are valuing the rich man more than the poor man who is rich in his heart. So I translated the parable. They all looked at me like I was a retarded simpleton and started asking questions (in Punjabi) like "what kind of mental person would try and thread a camel through the eye of a needle?" and "how the hell can someone be so stupid that he thinks picking up a camel is possible?". It went on and on. I quickly regretted even attempting to translate this parable into Punjabi but even then the besti was not complete. They kept going. One minute, in their eyes, I was a man of respect "doing Phd" and the next, simply by embarking on this terrible terrible mistake, I lost all respect. I became nothing more than a man that thinks it is possible to pick a camel up and poke it through a tiny needle. Thats the moral of that story. Punjabis will never get to the bit about it being difficult for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven. You will lose all Punjabis (and your respect) the very moment you mention a 'camel' and trying to literaly thread it through a tiny hole. So, because I care for you all as my brothers and sisters I advise you all to never make the same mistake I made. NEVER EVER try and relate the camel, eye of the needle and the the rich man scenario to a Sikh from Punjab. For your own sake's don't do it. But, seeing how most of you are like me (not with the same thinking and mindset but with the similar western born mindset) I feel you'll be able to at understand what I was trying to get at. The point I was going to make to them, but never got to that stage because I became an epic fool, is that we respect the rich man too much. I wanted to explain the deeper meaning of the parable, articulating the fact that the rich man fails to reach the kingdom of heaven not because he is rich but because the richness massages his ego and false pride. I remember when I was a teenager having a similar conversation with an auntie (amritdhari) and I'll never forget how she quoted the fact that Sri Gobind Singh Ji was so rich, had the finest clothes and the finest horses...ie the finest things....that the Sikhs that have those things are closer to HIM. This left me despondent but I quickly realised that the mentality of the average Sikh from Punjab is to think like this. Now here's the thing. I got married in Punjab. My one and only condition for marriage was the girl should be from a Sikh family that is not rich, has suffered from the Indian progroms and would benefit from me. It gave me a sense of worth. It gave me purpose, and I thank the Lord for giving me the opportunity for doing this. But, I look around at all the rich boys and girls from really really Gursikh chardi-kala families in the UK and Canada...western born...and active in standing up for Sikh rights...and I can't help thinking how come exactly 0% of them has married a beautifull Singhni from the widows colony in Delhi ? How come, even though 99% of the beautifull daughters of Sri Gobind Singh Ji, i.e daughters and grandaughters of the shaheeds of 1984 onwards, are living in poverty and suffering, exactly 0% of our UK and Canada born Gursikhs have married any of them ? Basic Maths : 100% of them preaching about the suffering of the family of the shaheeds yet 0% of them marrying one of them thus helping them. Advanced Maths : I've never been any good at Maths but in this instance even I, who is rubbish at Maths can confidently say it doesn't add up. But every maths equation must have answer. The answer is money, greed and riches. But, as the thread implies, we Sikhs of Punjabi heritage have an inherent problem that goes beyond basic maths problems. Punjab and Sikhi's biggest problem is the way that the Badal clan 'keeps it in the family' and has kept Punjab on it's knees by accumulating power by marriage. So what do these western born anti-Badal Gursikhs teach us when they embark on their marraige liasons with other rich Gursikh familes, as they always do ? The answer is that you should never attempt to explain how it is easier to thread a camel through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to reach the kingdom of heaven.

Why isn't firearms training part of Shastar Vidhiya ? If a war breaks out we shouldn't be throwing spears at tanks. The reason we have been massacred many times is that we choose to use older weaponry and techniques instead. Sant Jarnail singh and 200 Singhs used old WWII rifles. Imagine if Kharkus had same light arms as the Indian Army. It would have changed the course of history.

Bhai Niranjan Singh Jwaddi Kalan Wale - Bhai Sarabjit Singh Laddi - Sant Anoop Singh Una Sahib Wale -

Just to correct you on one point Quantavius. Your point about a firearm is far from comical but very relevant to American Amritdhari's. Kirpan refers to any shastar (weapon) that we are able to access and utilise with which to do "kirpa" via defending the weak from oppression. Thus, as per my limited understanding (and certain Sikh schools of thought) a glock, a spear or any weapon that the said Khalsa has access to are indeed Kirpan. Bear in mind that matchlocks were used in 1699. There is also an argument that 5 kakkar was actually a subsequent corruption of Guru Sahib's original invocation to the Khalsa Panth that the Khalsa should always keep kes and have panj shastar and be tyaar bar tyaar at all times. We have to ask ourselves would Guru Sahib require African Khalsa Sikhs with long dreadlocks to wear kangha given that Sikhi is universal, 100% practical, fully progressive with the times and eternally applicable.

Nidar hijacked the title of shastar vidya. Still relevant: http://www.sikh24.com/2013/07/31/controversial-neo-nang-niddar-to-hold-seminar-in-toronto/#.VddpkMvnbqA Gatka is focused on the fari soti and other footwork basics of jang vidiya. Gatka is a part of shastar vidya- the knowledge of weapons and for someone practicing the art, the sky is the limit. You get as good as your foundation, how much you practice and the level in which you practice. With that said agreed about the OP about this entertainment business is doing besti to the art. There is a lot of intentional mystification of the subject but reality is you can reverse engineer many things simply by looking at a type of shastar, shape of shastar and other properties of it.

Balkaar Singh Bhai Sahib please read into Professor Padam's (false) allegation into who the King of Anandpur in the referred to Charitar actually (supposedly) is and I am pretty sure you will subsequently arrive at the same conclusion that Quantavius has already reached. The intent of the writer imho was not to impart moral guidance but rather to denigrate Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj at the behest of anti-Sikh (Mughal and biprenvaad) forces. I will try expand on this later as i see that sincere Sikhs like yourself and Kira Singh that I 100% respect may have been reading rhetorical material which is purported to promote Sikhi but in fact does everything but.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Bhai Veer Singh Lucknow Wale see links: Jagardang Nagardang Shabad (Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji) Bhai Baljit Singh ji & Bhai Gurmeet Singh ji

Sorry, no. The comparison between some woman with supposedly magical powers and Akali Phoola Singh is absurd. Akali Phoola Singh is a respected figure with authority in Sikhism and has been bestowed the power by the Sangat to even punish a King. Who is this woman? Just because she supposedly has some magical powers, a King is willing to do her bidding? Please. And they can't recognize their own King??? LOL! At the very least he could have stationed some guards nearby. This story is getting more ludicrous. What a load nonsense. LOL! I'm guessing you've obviously have never been in relationship. Nobody gets sooooo horny to the point they drink a laced with drugs that too knowingly. Dude, being horny does not make you that stupid nor does it retards your thinking. I don't see any 'towering morality' by leaving 60 coins by the bedside of someone who just tried to frame you. She being a prostitute or not is irrelevant. Who goes to see a lone woman in the night all alone and not expect to be in a compromising situation or at least suspect something amiss? So if tomorrow some guy tells your wife to meet him all alone in his in the night in his house, you would be ok with it? LOL! You're just lying to yourself in order to give some credence to this story. Why do we Sikhs need to read a fictional story/event (that too not a very good story, full of absurdities and nonsense) when we have real life stories involving our Gurus? Avoidance of lust is all ready mentioned in SGGS Ji and our Sakhias. Why do we need to refer to this types of silly fictional tale? Furthermore, none of our Gurus indulged in story telling and creating fictional tales in order to impart spiritual knowledge nor is anything included in SGGS Ji. In fact, it's not part of Sikhi culture. All of a sudden Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj steps out of character and decides to create or appoint writers to create these fictional tales for Sikhs in order to gain spiritual knowledge? Lastly, if I'm going to learn about morals, who better then our own Gurus? Why must we Sikhs refer to fictional tales in order to set our moral compass? Should we not be instead learning from our Gurus actions instead of referring to some nonsensical stories on fictional characters? I'm sorry but I'm not convinced.

Sorry to disappoint you cisco singh but thats not Gatka. That's just some stage stunts that some are now doing and say this is "Gatka". This all started from that Bir Khalsa Group.

Lets get this straight. This is a Maharaja but it appears the Maharaja is powerless against a common prostitute? 1. Why must the Maharaja obey her request for coming alone in the first place? Who is the Maharaja here and who is the prostitute? Could the Maharaja not simply instruct her to do his bidding? 2. Why did the Maharaja fear this common prostitutes black mailing? Since he being the Maharaja, could he not have her arrested and given a good trashing while in jail? Once again, who is the one here with the power? The Maharaja or the prostitute? 3. How can someone be so stupid to prepare a drink laced with cannabis and then drink it after being told to do so? This is borderline retard. 4. Why did the Maharaja leave sixty coins at her bedside? What was the purpose and it does not logically make sense as he owed her nothing. Why didn't the Maharaja get her arrested instead after she passed out? 5. If premarital sex with a prostitute is against dharam, why did the Maharaja obey her and meet her alone? What do you think is going to happen when a woman calls you to meet her all alone in the night? Some studying in the library? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sorry but the moral that you highlighted is pure nonsense. IMHO, a righteous person with high morals who is very concerned about premarital sex, would have not agreed to meet a woman all alone in the night in the very first place, no matter what the reason unless maybe life and death issue. Anybody with an an ounce of intellect can see nothing good coming out of such an endevour. This Maharaja was willing to gamble his morals in order to learn some magic. I'm sorry but I find this whole story ludicrous.

I agree, I was not trying to convince you to become a sikh. We should never blindly follow a religion. Sikhi teaches us to experience naam, not to blindly believe in it. It is your personal experience between you, guru sahib and vaheguru.

In Sikhism, you are supposed to think for yourself and not parrot and promote what some Baba (with all due respect) said. You're not supposed to be a sheep. Why don't you take one of these tales, start a thread and impart this knowledge. Tell us what it really means.

So how long before we get flights from UK straight to Chandigarh. Years? Months? (Probably millennia!)

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh, Email sent to the moderator; see below if you wish to copy and send (amend if required): Hi, Can you urgently remove all Sardar jokes as they are insulting Sardars worldwide. You are participating in hurting religious sentiment by allowing this to go ahead. I urge your team to actively review and remove inappropriate content. Mr Singh

Our Gurus made no mistake in giving our kakkars to wear. Our Gurus were timeless so there is nothing outdated in how we dress. It is actually other people's appearances which are outdated as they constantly have to change their appearance to keep up with the constant change in fashion. Amrit isn't about distinguishing ourselves from appearance but to set ourselves on the path to vaheguru spiritually. In every practice we take in sikhi even in appearance has a spiritual benefit regardless of how hard it is for us to comprehend this. During amrit initiation, we receive naam which is the remedy to unite ourselves with vaheguru. The creation was created by the sound of vaheguru, this sound/vibration is an indescribable blessing for anyone to receive. I agree we need to be human first which is why when the panj pyare were called daya came first. We need to have a strong mentality and behaviour of compassion and morality before even attempting to be a sikh, otherwise our naam bani isn't pleasing to guru sahib and vaheguru. It would be better for us to set ourselves as an example to others of how a Sikh should be.

Lets be brutally honest. Do you honestly believe Guru Gobind Singh Ji sanctioned those sexual tales? C'mon dude! Name me a single moment in the anals of Sikh history where any of our Gurus talk about sex. And I'm talking about explixit sex not metaphors. BTW nowhere does it state the 'dangers' of sex. From what little I've read, it actually promotes it. Secondly, Sikhs did not start fighting and became martial during Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time. It started during Guru Hargobind Singh Ji's time. How did we manage then without Bir Ras of Dasam Granth? This is all nonsense and you bloody well know it. Martin Luther King was no Guru nor was he a creator of any religion. Please stop comparing him to our Gurus. This is why I say it's pointless to take amrit. Despite taking amrit, so many Sikhs like yourself are spiritually lost. You're still unable to distinguish right from wrong.

Kira Please refer to this thread on Dasam Granth http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/186-dasam-granth-a-historical-perspective/ Other then Akaal Ustat, Jaap Sahib and a few other prayers, I do not believe Sri Dasam Granth Ji was created by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Personally I've never seen any Gurdwara having it. At this point, I do not believe in it. Secondly it is being used as a vehicle by Hindus such as Preet to align Sikhism with Hinduism. IMHO we Sikhs should completely reject Sri Dasam Granth Ji.

Once again, you're wrong. BTW Brahm Kavach wasn't written by Guru Gobind Singh Ji. So you can give it a rest now. Check mate Hindu. LOL!

What does Sanji religion mean? does this sanji religion philosophy also mean a Muslim or Hindu can also become a Panj Pyara as well? where do you draw the line into this Sanji`ness? ਬਾਕੀ ਸਾਰੇ ਆਪਣਾ ਆਪਣਾ ਧਰਮ follow ਕਰਦੇ ਨੇ| ਕੋਈ ਭੀ ਹੋਰ ਆਪਣੇ ਧਾਰਮਿਕ ਰਸਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਬੇਅਦਬੀ ਨਹੀ ਹੋਣ ਦੇਂਦੇ| ਕੀ ਇਸ sanji religion ਦਾ ਠੇਕਾ ਅਸੀਂ ਹੀ ਲੈਣਾ ਸੀ?

You said you understand what AK ceremony is but then you write something like this proving otherwise. Anand Karaj is a dharmic ceremony between two Sikhs. We should not go against our dharmic traditions and legitimize interfaith marriages by allowing it an Anand Karaj.

Of you understand what AK ceremony is then you will understand why people are trying to uphold its sanctity. You wont be calling them idiots.

The person who asked those questions has a fake profile/doesn't have a profile picture. There is no talk of purest form that Sunny is parroting. The trolls on this website post exactly what he posted about making sure Sikhi is pure. He's looking for an excuse to create a demon out of nothing in order to legitimize himself in the public eye. It's simple, someone who isn't a Sikh can't get an Anand Karaj and there are democratic and bureaucratic ways to ensure it won't happen. When this happens Sunny will probably try to find another angle on this issue. Right now his only legitimacy is fighting against force and violence which so far hasn't been an issue and most of us know that it won't be an issue.

So you understand what the Sikh ceremony of Anand Karaj is?

Guru Kirpa Amritsar will remain open as well.

Dates are meaningless for us. Why the fuss?

Definition: Gurbani is a compound word composed of: Gur meaning guide or enlightener. Bani meaning word. Gurbani refers to the text of Sikhism's holy scripture, or the word ofGuru Granth Sahib. Sikhs revere the scripture of the Granth as their everlasting guru and consider Gurbani the means of enlightenment and salvation. The scripture of Guru Granth was preceded as guru by ten spiritual masters or gurus. http://sikhism.about.com/od/glossary/g/Gurbani.htm It appears that you're the one who sorely needs an education.

On Sri Dasam Granth, there is a lot of material in the Dasam Granth sub forum. Please go educate yourself as you sound very lost. So now you're asking what does Hindu mean. Next you'll be telling us Sikhs are Hindus. I already see it coming. LOL! Seriously, what is your motivation here? Is it in the hopes that Sikhs will somehow come back to Hinduism? If thats your plan you can just 'forgetaboutit'. LOL! Hindus far smarter then you have tried and failed.

Personally, I believe sacrifice is an essential part of Sikhi. I think it's basically about making that leap of faith and giving yourself upto something bigger than any of us, as exemplified by the moment when Guru Gobind Singh Ji plucked five men from a crowd who others assumed were walking off to their certain deaths. But, as we later realised, those five had such unshakable faith in their Guru they trusted his plan for them unbeknownst to them at the time. That's what taking Amrit is I think; "I'm yours, do with me what you will. I'm nothing." But, like I said, now there's none of that physical peril of the original moment in Sikh history, so in theory, all sorts step up in this modern era knowing it's all going to be fine. There's a few genuine souls who believe, in their hearts, that taking Amrit is a life-changing moment, and whilst their heads aren't at stake (literally speaking), their souls are. So, those individuals are the blessed few who get down to business and realise the golden opportunity they've been presented. Just my theories, I could be completely wrong BTW.

September 11th? The eleventh of September?

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VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH 18 pages...seriously? And those 18 pages, we have managed to argue with and insult each other, copy and paste the same response 10+ times, say things that don't match Gurbani and even attempt to engage a Dawah stand without going in fully prepared. First, let's address the post title - Biggest Answer To Muslims = No, thank you. I am proud to be a Sikh and do not wish to leave my faith.The above response is something that each and every Sikh basically said to so called Muslims in history. From the Chotte Sahibzadae to Bhai Taru Singh to the multitudes of others that were faced with the same choice. Do you think the parchar back in the day was any less? The pressure less? No. It was many degrees more intense, with the threat of death and torture looming as a definite to saying no to Islam. No more response was needed then and no more response is needed now. No debates, no arguments needed. But, as Johnny101 has already stated, it is more to do with your own faith and EXPERIENCE in Sikhi than bashing another faith. How many of the Sikhs have actually FELT something from Sikhi? A sweetness, a bliss, that they would not be willing to betray for another faith? Rare are those ones. When Gursikhs who have experience speak of Naam Simran and its pleasure - a pleasure that exceeds all worldly pleasure - why would they betray that for another faith that makes no such promises? It is those who have not had any experience, any actual spiritual revelation of Divine bliss and Naam Ras that will betray their faith or feel susceptible to such forces. WE need to sort ourselves out and give our own Sikhs the means to get the experience that Gurbani promises. Once that is done, the other faiths can write millions of pages of evidence against Sikhi, but the faithful Sikh will politely deny them their arguments and assurances because the Guru and Akaal Purakh will give them those joys that other faiths fail to promise. I say this after having read the other scriptures and seeing the message of Gurbani in stark contrast from the other faiths. We should not discourage any other person from their faith (and in fact encourage them in their pursuit, as the Gurus did in Gurbani), but we should know what it is that we are supposed to experience and strive to experience it. As for the status of Guru Sahib being all knowing and what not: Gur Parmeshar Eko Jaan - Ang 864. As abbreviated as possible, this explains that the Almighty and the Guru are one. Yes, Dasam Patshah said that those who would call him Akaal Purakh would burn in hell. But realize that Dasam Patshah also explains in Bachittar Natak of how all of those sent to the world encouraged others to worship them instead of the Almighty. This was a strict warning to the Sikhs to not make the same mistake. That the Akaal Purakh would be forever worshipped and not the ten Masters as the Almighty. The Ten Masters were indeed God in the world, but they are not the limitation of, nor the boundary within which the totality of the Almighty can be contained. They are not the Aadh-Unt of Akaal Purakh, because Akaal Purakh can do whatever whenever however. In fact, the true verse to understand is "BANI Guru Guru Hai BANI, Vich Bani Amrit Saarae" - Ang 982. Or "Vah(o) Vah(o) BANI NIRANKAR HAI, Tis Jaevad Avar Na Koe" - Ang 515. The Ten Masters were in fact Masters because their human form contained Gurbani, which Gurbani itself documents as being Nirankar/Akaal Purakh. Therefore, the human bodies and titles that they are assigned, Guru Nanak Sahib Ji to Guru Gobind Singh Ji are not the forms to worship, but rather the GURBANI vested in that vessel that was to be worshipped. It was a prohibition of Dasam Patshah to not worship his body form as an idol or picture, but rather to worship the Gurbani and know it as Akaal Purakh itself. Much like we cannot make idols or picures in the physical shape of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and worship it but rather worship the Gurbani Akaal Purakh that is vested in Granth form. The other partakh form of this is Khalsa Panth Guru Roop Punj Pyare, who are Tyar Bar Tyar Gursikhs who have invested the teachings of Gurbani in their life and become the physical, active presence of the Guru/Akaal Purakh in this world. This may seem confusing, but hopefully it makes some sense. Some katha and explanation of the Gurus and their bodies can be found here: - more specifically 25:24 onwards for sakhis of Guru Nanak Sahib and Guru Gobind Singh Sahib's Shareeric Saroop's reality.Back to topic - let's learn from history and become better Sikhs rather that better debaters. Then we can embody the verse "Mun Na Digai, Tan Kahe Ko Darai" - Ang 1162 - face any obstacle with unshakable faith. The day the Sikh Panth embodies this is the day no force can convert a Sikh to any other faith.

VAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA, VAHEGURU JI KI FATEH In my limited experience: A) Disconnect from parchar and Gurudwaras. Where the Gurudwara should be central to the life of every Sikh, it has turned into a social and dollar buffet in many cases. Rare are the Gurudwarae that cater to the youth, have anything to connect them to Sikhi or anything in English or local language to cater to them. The Kathakars are, many times, relaying stories that the Western youth cannot relate to and there is a huge disconnect. the parchar fails to have any attraction to the youth. It caters to the adults. Our institutions, rather than feeding the spiritually hungry, are feeding the full or those who don't really want the spiritual food (Langar Gurshabad Da) that is being served. B) Actual explanation and spiritual discourse. There is a difference between doing Sooraj Parkash katha and engaging the Sangat. The youth cannot understand the parchariks to begin with, much less relate to the sakhis when they do understand. More effort to engage the Sangat is needed. I recently read some words from Sant Waryam Singh, who outlined that there are 14 qualities of Sangat and parcharik needed: some spoke of the need for the parcharik to actively scan the Sangat to see if it bored, and if so, wrap it up and move on. I have hardly ever seen any parcharik that will veer from his katha after actively surveying the Sangat. If the parchar actually was made to relate to the youth (perhaps by someone who was raised in the West and could relate to the youth...), it would be more effective. C) BIGGEST PROBLEM: Jeevan Vale Gursikhs doing parchar. Crossing all language and cultural barriers, this is by far something that has the greatest impact. Having seen Gursikhs who practice Gursikhi - Youth are automatically attracted to them. I attended a camp where an elder Gursikh spoke in 99% Punjabi with 85%+ Western born Sikhs - the youth followed this Gursikh around, listened to him intently, made the effort to understand and considered him a mentor. His kamai shone through his parchar and he was effective in inspiring many youth. THAT is the vital essence missing in a lot of Gurudwarae. D) Politics - nothing turns off the youth faster than fights and stupidity at Gurudwarae. Where you come for peace and spiritual upliftment has become a ground for politics, money and power struggles. This is something that the Sikhs as a whole need to sort out. E) Lack of youth involvement - most Gurudwaras are run by more elderly folks and see the youth as a threat to their power (see D). They will not let the youth get involved for fear the youth will take over and remove them from their seats (where most youth do not have the time to devote to this seva). If the elders actually rose above their petty power struggles, practiced Sikhi and inspired the youth to participate, they would actually be SECURING their positions in the Gurudwaras and would serve as good mentors for the youth. Sadly, many of the elders are less concerned with Sikhi and more with gaddhi (power). F) Parchariks = "dumbest of the village" - it is common knowledge that those Sikh kids who will amount to nothing in Indian villages are the ones that pursue Gyani/Granthi/Raagi jobs. Where Western society has ministers and pastors that attend college to obtain degrees (and sometimes PhD.) in Theology, ours are like puppy mills that churn out "parchariks" in a few months with very cursory education. Not every parcharik studies at a Taksal (Damdami, Jwaddi, etc.) and many just learn as they go and do what they see at the Gurudwara or what the committee tells them to do, with no regard to Maryada or Gurmat. How many Granthis/Keertanis/Gyanis actually wake up at Amritvela, do Simran, or have a Gursikh jeevan? How many are willing to stand up to the committee against manmat? Many are dependent slaves of the committee and do what the committee says, or they will lose their pay, the means to support their family or immigration status. This has an effect on the whole Sangat, not just the youth.

Over 8 hour katha on liberation in Sikhi. this is in-depth knowledge of the spiritual path from a Gurmat perspective anyone who is doing simran or needs to know how should listen to these katha Lecture 108 - What is Liberation - Part 1: Lecture 109 - What is Liberation - Part 2: Lecture 110 - What is Liberation - Part 3: Lecture 111 - What is Liberation - Part 4: Lecture 112 - What is Liberation - Part 5:

SoundCloud Sikh2inspire SoundCloud Syf SoundCloud Bhai Sukha Singh YouTube basics of Sikhi

Let me explain this by the caste division system.As you know there are 4 classes of people divided: 1)kshatriyas 2)brahmans 3)shudars 4)vaishyas Kshatriyas were the people who managed the empire (i.e kingdom),they were the kings.They also used to eat meat.But in Sri dasam granth some of them are said to be of high spirituality and resulting in "mukti". Some havans done by Brahmans also needed animal sacrifices too.Animal sacrifice is also related to the victory of goddess Durga on the demons. Sikhi is made by combining 4 classes(kshatriyas,brahmans,shudars,vaishyas) into a single person.That's the main reason Shri Harmandir Sahib has four doors ,explaining that it is open for all 4 classes.A Amritdhari(khalsa) can take life of someone for the purpose of selfdefence.But sacrificing and eating animals is not allowded in Sikhi due to the spiritual cost and the negative energy from the eating material. The universe is made by the God with "Maya" as he himself remain untouched to it.Maya further made 3 guns 1)Sato gun 2)Rajo gun 3)Tamo gun and then 5 elements were made. 1)sato gun is the state of mind of a person with compassion,faith,love etc. 2)Rajo gun is the state of mind of a person with intellectual skills,more interested in politics etc. 3)Tamo gun is the state of mind of a person who is short temppered,always ready to fight. Tamo gun is the lowest of these guns.Meat is a Tamo gun food.It increases tamo gun in us.Sikhi's ultimate aim is to reach the 4th gun state (Brahm gian) which can only be given by God not Maya ,after one reaches the state of sato gun then brahm gian is obtained. These answers will help you : Question: Master ji, we all know that it's very crucial to abstain from the eating of meat because this increases our karmas, but can you explain in more detail the reasons for becoming vegetarian? Thakar Singh: We should not increase our burden of karmas as you have already said. There is karmic value in every kind of thing we use in this world. The air we consume, we have to pay for. The water we use, we have to pay for. The light of the sun or moon is also not free for us, and this green grass is also to be paid for - nothing is free. Depending on the "Jun" (life-form), there is a price to be paid. Lower life forms have a lower price to pay. Plants have a lower spiritual price than animal life forms. So why take the higher burden? If you are to construct a house, you don't make it with gold or silver or jewels. If you can, you make the house with stone - Stone is very strong and cheap -- So, why don't you make your house with stone and bricks instead of gold? This body is like a house. Build it with material that is spiritually cheap and strong. Fruits and vegetables are spiritually cheap and they can make you spiritually and physically strong. Higher life-forms are expensive - and you will have to pay a higher price! In the same way, if we can maintain a simple life style, with a spiritually lower cost - with this greenery, fruits, etc - then why attract so much burden and payment of karma by consuming higher life-forms? God did not really say that it is "burden-less" or it is all free. He has never explained it like this, but He has allowed us to have these lower forms because with our meditations we can release ourselves very quickly and easily and therefore we will not "over-burden" ourselves for a long time. This is also the case with people who eat animals. Their nervous systems have been seriously disturbed and shaken. Even if you look at an animal that has been killed you will be emotionally affected; your nervous system will be disturbed and you will lose so much peace; you will not feel good and your heart will be affected by it. Look at a dying fish. It is out of water and if you look at it, for one or two hours or even some days your heart will not feel good. You will think of the condition of that fish and it will feel horrible and your heart and mind will be in some kind of perturbed state. For months even this state of mind will continue. Maybe after a long time you will forget this scene and its effect will be gone from your heart and then perhaps you cannot remember it - still it has its effect. If just looking at a dead fish causes this then what will be the case when we eat it and all these negative vibrations enter into our system. So many diseases will come up and our mental systems will be disturbed. But when we eat some greenery or fruit everything is wonderful. The plant produces the fruit for consumption by an animal so that the seeds can be transported to new places. In fact by eating the fruit you are doing a favour to the plant! - the fruit is a bait for the animal to do a function that the plant desires - That is the function of a fruit. If you look at fruit that is ripe the colors tell you so wonderfully that it is ripe. A fragrance is also available and when you smell it you enjoy it and even when you remember the smell you feel good. Your heart is also enjoying and your mind and body are at peace. Q. Flesh-eaters often say to vegetarian Sikhs, if you eat only vegetables you are also taking life. What, then is the difference between taking the life of, say, a pig and that of a vegetable? A. All the difference in the world. Does a potato cry out when it is taken from the earth the way a calf does when it is taken from its mother? Does a stick of celery scream in pain and terror when it is picked the way a pig does when it is being led to slaughter and is having its throat cut? And how sad, lonely, and frightened can a head of lettuce feel? We don't need a polygraph to demonstrate that plants have consciousness of a sort, but this consciousness is obviously of a rudimentary kind, far different from that of mammals with well developed nervous systems. Nor do we need tests to prove that fowls and pigs and sheep experience pain to the same degree as human beings, for it is common observation that animals wince, howl, wail, and show terror when abused or injured and make every effort to avoid pain. Actually many fruits and vegetables can be picked without killing or even harming the plants. These include berries, melons, legumes, nuts, seeds, pumpkins, and many other vegetables. Potatoes are taken from the ground after the plant has died. Most vegetables are annuals, harvested at or near the end of their natural life. In fact, there is considerable scientific evidence that the human physiology, like that of our closest living creatures - the great apes, is vegetarian in design. The structure of our skin, teeth, stomach and bowels, the length of our digestive system, the composition of our saliva, stomach acids and urine, etc. are all typically vegetarian. There is also a mountain of evidence proving that a meat-based diet contributes to a whole range of diseases. Many scientists now concede that fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, and grains appear best suited to the human body. Finally, we know that we cannot subsist for long without food, and all food is matter that was once alive. But since we can subsist well and even thrive without meat, why take animal life in addition to the plant life we need to survive? Among certain spiritually oriented persons one will often hear this strange rationalization: "Sure, we eat meat", they say, "what of it"? What is most important is not what enters the stomach but what comes out of the mind! Although it is true that ridding oneself of one's delusions, breaking out of the prison of the ego-I into a life of sympathy with all sentient beings is paramount, how can we establish a sympathetic rapport with non-humans while we are feasting on them? "Do not cause pain to any creature, Go back to your Home with honour." (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, pg 322) Story of Bheesham Pitama In accordance to Hindu mythology, Draupadi asked the saint Sant Bheesham Pitama, why he had not come to her rescue when she was stripped of her clothing in Duryodans court. She queried him, saying that if he was a saint, why did he not raise his voice when evil was going on before his very eyes in Duryodanas court. He started to cry and said, Daughter, I shall tell you the truth; my mind became clouded by darkness as I had eaten in Duryodans house. Therefore, this shows how the love of God breaks away from a being as their mind becomes clouded by filth and prevents them from performing good deeds.

It is only cowards and non martial people that make jokes on Sardars. The two most martial people of South Asia are Sikhs and Pathans and both suffer from these racist jokes by made by non martial people of South Asia who have lived under 1000 years of slavery of foreign rulers. One should note that you will not see other martial people of South Asia like the marathas or rajputs making these Sardar jokes. Sikhs of olden times were big hearted and brave people that fought against invaders without fear. They were not chalaak like the people who now make fun of us and who would run away at the first instance they see an invader

I agree. In a way, its a good way to remind the civilised world how backward and uncivilised Hindu India is i.e a good 30-40 years behind the rest of the world in terms of decency. Civilised countries, such as the UK and USA stopped seeing 'jokes' about minorities as 'jokes' in the late 1970's early 1980's. Up until then, British people saw it as acceptable to make similar jokes about the Irish and Americans thought it acceptable to make similar jokes about the Polaks (Polish-Americans). But then, in the late 1970's, they realised it wasn't acceptable and certainly wasn't funny. So they stopped. So, in a positive way, the Indian's love of telling 'sardar' jokes is testament to their true status as uncivilised backward barbarians. You can't train barbarians to become civilised so its best we use the status quo to our advantage by reminding the rest of the world about them.

Well I couldn't NOT mann the benthee of a guroo pyaaraa now could I?