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See, the problem is that he is being dishonest in his approach. I asked him whether he takes the same approach in relation to every other author that is presented in his school or college classes. He says yes. Sorry, but I cannot but see that as a lie. The teacher starts out to teach Shakespeare, or whatever, and he (instead of reading from the play), starts talking about "What proof is there that Shakespeare even existed?" or "These are Shakespeare's actual words"? Or the teacher starts talking about WWII, and he says "What proof is there that Churchill or Hitler even existed?" Oh, I would love to hear him say "There's no proof that Hitler killed 6 million Jews." Go ahead @mahandulai. Write up an article saying that (with your actual name), send it to a newspaper, or your college professor. So, @Jaggaa, the problem people have is not with skepticism, but with a skepticism reserved only for our Gurus and Sikhism.

Good point, what a loser. Hey, @mahandulai , how do you even know that there even is anybody on the other end of the Internet that you're using to connect with what you think is the Internet? For all you know, it's just GCHQ that's on the other end, there is no Bhforce, there is no JKVlondon, etc. How do you know that your mother is your mother and your father is your father? Have you done a DNA test? If so, did you do the DNA test yourself? Did you create the thermal cycler yourself? If not, how can you trust the result? Using the standard you used for our Gurus, it can only be concluded that you are a bas ta rd until you can conclusively prove to the contrary. Also, you'll have to replicate all of genetic science yourself.

In simple words: either their manmukhta, or their agyanta, though in the end, these are 2 sides of the same coin. Then above all, it is a matter of Maharaj´s Kirpa, to those whom He himself calls, through Hukum they come willingly, it is in their karam. These who come willingly, as said is more of his kirpa, than any intention of ours, for if He wants so, who van resist His hukum? Of course not even Kaal! To these, Gurbani names them as wadbhagee jeevas. Does not the Bani say: bhoolay marg jinay batayaa, aisa Gur wadbhagee paaya. Here the marg is sikhee, which takes the wadbhagee jeeva, through Guru Jee back home. You see sikhee is a path of love, of devotion, of kirpa from Akal Purukh, whosoever practices and walks on it faithfully, reaches Nijh Ghar, Sach Khand. Sat Sree Akal.

Sikhi is a very easy religion. Problem? We make it difficult ourselves. There are far too many "You're not allowed to do this/ that." From Guru Nanak's teachings, 80% is to do with living in society and 20% is the spiritual path... Don't believe it?? Ok, Sacha Kirth karni, wand k shakna and Naam japna. Notice the first two! Imagine if the whole world was earning an honest living (inc. Politicians) and if everyone shared their money/ food with each other! Wouldn't it be Sachkhand on Earth? Instead "Oh? You're an Amritdhari? You're not allowed this. You're not allowed that. Don't even breath..." Etc. Then we get in fights from different jathe bandhis to Gurudwara committee. What are we portraying to others? Sikhi is hard when it's not and fights. Why don't we tell others to do Nitnem when Amritvela, earn an honest living and deswand? Do Sangat/ Seva at Gurudwara and not t indulge in Bujjer Kureths?

Wow, you're just full of yourself, aren't you? How do you know anything? Ever ask yourself that? You want to apply skeptical methods to Sikhism and the Gurus. Ever done so to every other aspect of life, history, and historical persons? How do you know Jesus even existed? How do you know Plato existed? Or Socrates? That "his words" were his? Or Churchill's words were his? Or Dickens'? Or Shakespeare's? Or Chaucer's? Or Milton's? I'll bet that you just accept those 100%. I'll accept that you're a real skeptic if every time your teacher or professor starts to teach one of these books, you raise your hand and doubt the very existence of them.

Not really a Q. More of a statement. Girls... What are you doing? Boys... Same can go to you! You're in your 30's, highly educated, nice job n u cannot seem t "find the right partner?" (this post excludes who wish to remain single). But d rest... Whas keeping yah? What do Sikh people say in society? "Remember! Education doesn't matter. Wha matters is Partner should b Nitnemi and hard working." And when a person uneducated/ less educated approaches the same Sikhs to marry their child?? "Marriage!? Whas your education up to??" THAS IT! Gal katham. The end. There's no room for "Can I at least meet your son/ daughter??" (am speaking from experience as a single who been thru this numerous times). WOMEN! I am now engaged to someone in Punjab. HERE'S MY PLAN! After marriage if she wishes to work she can. If she wishes to carry on teaching but gets a job far from my Hometown, we'll settle over there so she carries on working. I'll easily manage a job (TRUST! Indians always seek people willing t work below minimum; factory or takeaways). See? I have these plans to SUPPORT my future wife. She may not be baptised. I made it clear to her "If u wish to take Amrit or not u will not b forced. It'll b entirely up to u." SUPPORT! SANGAT JI! SUPPORT... Plus with kirpa am financially sorted, on top. WOMEN! Next time a proposal comes to you, at least hear out the guy, see wha he says. Working + still with parents = financially sorted. Is he willing to move out? Can u still work after marriage? If in a far town both working, will you compromise and move in his town? Or is he willing t give up job and move with you??? All this is decided after meeting/ speaking or messaging on phone. What are we focused on? Education only. Gal kathm. No wonder so many 35-40's are still single (again, from experience what I seen but am 29). Bottom line, you wanna get somewhere at least GO and MEET UP with the proposals with your family.

What are you even trying to say? Do you have a functioning level of intellect or reasoning? The line about ਚਾਲਾ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ਭਗਤਾਹ ਕੇਰੀ ਬਿਖਮ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਚਲਣਾ ॥ is referring to devotees living a distinct lifestyle. That should be obvious: if you're going to live exactly as everyone else, what is the need for Gurbani in the first place? The line you quoted has nothing to do with that. This line is saying to view everyone equally. It does not say live like everyone else, including boozing, womanizing, doing drugs, lying, cheating, stealing, etc.

Haven't really read anything that's actually touched me in a while (or it feels like that). Beautifully put and uncannily precise in my opinion. Let's not forget that the SGPC/Singh Sabha 'Sikhism' also represents a covert pro-caste ideology totally at odds with Sikhi too, with its associated impact on attempts at panthic ekta.

Om is the origin of the the trinty of gods such as : Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Om is also Maya, as referred by Guru Jee as mother of these her 3 sons. Om as seen above, should not be confused with Oankar, which are 2 different things. Oankar is Ik, which means the Lord creator is One, and that creator as mentioned by Sree Guru Nanak Dev Maharaj, that Oankar or Lord, is Sat Nam. So Oankar is a description of the only True real being, who is Sat Nam, hence it is this ultimate reality, which Guru Sahiban and Bhagat Jan of the highest rank, mention in the Bani, to give our love and devotion only. While some due due to their karam, aspire at most to Swarg, Baikunth or any other spiritual planes, in sikhee, by following Gurbani implicitly, we aim towards Akal Purukh and Sach Khand, the eternal and changeless realm of ultimate Truth, by Guru Jee´s kirpa. Sat Sree Akal.

the difference is in the cut a kurta is straight up and down , it can have kalian , pockets and is seamed with a short placket to get the head through but the Chola has more width to the kalian lower down so is more A line shaped , it has side splits for ease of movement/seating like a kurta but the front is open all the way down so is more like a coat in terms of putting on than over the head like a kurta . It is traditional to have a centre parted front rather than a more mughal/rajput style to the left . The lower section can have a tie attached to secure the leading edge upwards at waist height side seam (inside so the hemline doesn't fall lower at the open edge .

This is pretty much what the Singh Sabha/SGPC did/does. They tried to box Sikhi, westernise it, Christianise it. It quite evident even today how Sikhi is viewed with an Abrahamic framework. While I don't disagree Sikhi has some basic universal rules, I strongly disagree that it can or should be boxed; this tries to take away the depth and beant nature of Dharam and creates a rigidity that is the antithesis of Sikh/Dharmic interpretation, thinking, and practise as well as the pluralism which has always existed. The reformist and revisonist sochni started by them has been detrimental to Sikhi, and today we pay a heavy price. There are hordes of Sikhs and non-Sikhs alike who speak about and view Sikhi in wholly Abrahmic terms. People are literally told what to believe, the do's and don'ts..like a rule book, like the 10 Commandments or a version of Sharia & Fiqh...it goes on and on. An insidious and poisonous mindset. Dharam cannot be interpreted by, or confined to western or Abrahamic philosophy/standards/theology/theism. All this has done is created a watered down, bland Sikhi with a check-list of what makes one a Sikh rather that creating true Sharda Bhaavna Khoji Gursikhs, and actual Jigyasus...people who actually use their Guru-given Buddhi. It has also given rise to the kind of mindless debates Abrahmic faiths have with each other and amongst themselves...not to forget the retarded missionaries et al. And of course we have the terrible English translations which have led to a exclusively literal, flat interpretation of Sikhi, again with people approaching it like an Abrahamic text...we can't really blame them when it's been made to sound like one. I don't necessarily agree with the OP's points but he makes a mention of Buddhism...he has a point; Sikhi is in an odd position when it comes to westerners...they are either attracted to Sikhi for it seems like a simplified Abrahamic faith, or they are put off for the very same reason. I feel they do not always get a true sense of Sikhi like they may with the other Dharmic faiths. Albeit, this is changing thanks to some of todays prachaaraks and the strengthening of Sampardaic Sikhi; a more open-minded, varied and colourful Sikhi...the pre-colonial, pre-Singh Sabha reform Sikhi...true Sikhi. Singh Sabha/SGPC Sikhism isn't the standard, isn't the basic framework, and certainly isn't the blissful unifying saviour reform of Sikhi Sidhant it's made out to be. It's an ideology, a school of thought, and a terrible, destructive one at that. Their legacy is a bunch of paranoid Hinduphobic, Indicphobic, and actually Sikhiphobic individuals who water down, twist and malign Sikhi to suit their delusional agenda. The sheer irony...they cannot see they are headed in totally the same direction of what they so fear but are just taking a different route. May the ridiculous idea of "One Panthic Rehat Maryada" die a swift death. There can never be one because there simply isn't one type of Sikh and there never was! "One Granth, One Panth"...? No thanks, we have at least two which are central to the Sikh Panth, yet some Sikhs cannot seem to comprehend this and instead jump on the sensationalist bandwagon in the name of "Ekta". What they don't realise is there was far more Ekta in the days of old and the cause of disunity is due to what they are in fact promoting. We need to fix up. Dhan Guru Nanak! Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji! Dhan Mata Sahib Devan Ji! Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji! Dhan Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji! Gurbar Akaal!

so I take it you are reinventing optometry and all the devices used since they are all old and cannot be verified until you have remade them

how do even know what guru said, back then. look. lets say guru is 100 percent right and perfect, how do you know, what you are listening to and reading, are his words.... Note that you didn't answer his question: that if a golden hand came out and saved you, would you still be doubting it. It seems the answer is yes. So why even bother to argue about whether something in the past was real or not. You wouldn't even accept God being real if he slapped you in the face with a golden hand.

Hi to everyone, I believe each member is valuable here, as each one tries his/her best. It is amazing to see how most friendly ask and answer, and behave, as this forum is about to be with good spirits: Sikh Sangat. The only thing which I dislike to see, or it pains, is when I see that because of disagreement, some abuse mercilessly each other. We have to understand that, not all have that same mental capacity of assimilating things, but that does not mean, we should hate them or bully them, we could respectfully talk with them, and leave it if the disagreement persists. So what, that is not the end of the world. There is still something better to look at, Bani and Wahiguru. To those who provoke, or want to drag us to their grounds of ego and agyanta, we should sincerely forgive them, and pray for them, as they are the most who need it. Anyhow, if ever I have conscioussly or uncosciouslly, been rude with anyone, I ask for forgivenes with both my hands folded. Loves and blessings for all. Sat Sree Akal.

Found the following beautiful piece on principals of sikhee on the net. It is question from a seeker and an answer from an unknown sikh brother. Though it was in 2002, yet I feel it is valid even today. I am just cpoying and pasting it as it is originally. Summary of Question: A Few Questions Category: General Sikhism Date Posted: Wednesday, 10/07/2002 12:53 MDT Sat Sri Akal. I am a sikh boy living in London, UK. I have a few questions which i hope you will be able to answer for me. Firstly.. I have cut hair..does this make me a bad person? I Pray often and i belive in Sikhism a lot and all it's teachings. Secondly..Is it wrong to have a girlfriend? I dont have one at the moment but i was just wondering. Lastly What did our Gurus say about Smoking. Again, i dont smoke but i was just wondering. Thank you very very much! ___________________________________________________________________________ Sat Siri Akal. Does having cut hair make you a bad person? No. It does not make you a bad person. Being a Sikh is not something you are born into, it is a spiritual commitment that you choose. Having cut hair means you haven't committed to the discipline of being a Sikh. But it isn't a question of "bad" or "good." Second: Is it wrong to have a girlfriend? Same issue. For many people, it is not wrong to have a girlfriend. A girlfriend is a very low-commitment proposition. You can have her one week, get rid of her the next. You know? A Sikh lives by honor, discipline and commitment. For a Sikh- a girlfriend isn't possible. A Sikh needs a stronger commitment than that. So - intimate relationships with the opposite sex are reserved only for married people because that type of relationship requires a commitment in order for it to be successful. The Gurus taught that the only intoxicant worth taking was the intoxication of meditating and singing about the Spirit and the Divine. So all intoxicants - including smoking, alcohol, and drugs - are not needed by a Sikh. There are two stages in choosing a spiritual path. One is - hey- I like it. The other is - wow- I'm going to commit to living the discipline in order to transform myself. You like Sikhism. And that's great. Sikhism is a very easy religion to like because it so universal and elevating. But to be a Sikh requiries more than agreeing with its principles. It requires a commitment to the discipline. Otherwise, it's just window-shopping. Keep praying and keep believing, and ask the Guru's guidance. You'll be fine. All love, GPK

Maybe Bhai Gurdas ji is referring back to Guru Nanak Dev ji's advice about wearing modest clothing which will avoid the undesirable action of inflaming vikars in the observers male or female . purataan pictures show more chola style shirts than kurtas even 19th century ones, the style is more chola even if like mughal/rajput side fastening. Nihang are shown with chola with/without pyjamai or barechested with just kumarkhassa and kachherea. There are picture of a kurti (small/short )kurta type top on gadari babey with/without waistcoat . women are shown with pyjami, salwar and regular and chola style full sleeve kameez but all have high jooda and covered heads

More scare-mongering! The Mughals couldn’t wipe out the Sikhs even when the numbers were reduced to so few and you think Hindus could make Sikhs irrelevant. You have obviously bought into the India hype. If your genuine I truly feel for you guys as it must be really difficult to live with the burden of constant fear and cowardice on your shoulders. I mean seriously if all Sikhs had your mindset then you certainly are doomed. You are the complete opposite to a Chardi-Kala mindset.

Om and On(g) are the same thing. The pronunciation of Om differs amongst different schools of thought with some stating it is pronounced the same as On(g). That's to not say Om and Ik Onkaar are the same thing, of course Guru Sahib has made this distinction; the Ik is what sets it apart. Also just as On(g) does not have only one arth, neither does Om. All I'm stating is that the On(g) part of Onkaar is the same as Om, they are one and the same and this is accepted in traditional Sikhi. But it's no surprise people and stupid "preachers" find this hard to digest with their revisionist nonsense and Hinduphobia. On(g)/Om is written differently depending on the script, obviously we use Gurmukhi and it's not exactly a bombshell that the Gurmukhi one looks very similar to some of the other scripts...because it's the same thing. - Taken from a Sikh text written in Devanagri which says "Ik Onkaar Satgur Prasad". If On(g) and Om were not the same, then the translator wouldn't have gone to the trouble of writing it this way, instead he would have written Ik Onkaar in Gurmukhi. - Taken from a commercial product, for reference. "Omkaar/On(g)kaar" in Devanagri script. - Taken from a Puratan Pothi Sahib, again illustrating On(g) and Om are in fact the same thing; with Brahma Ji, Vishnu Ji, and Shiv Ji depicted in the On(g) and Akaal Purkh depicted in the Ik. This is artistic representation before anybody shouts "there is no image of Akaal Purkh blah blah". People were not so anti-imagery or anti-art back in the day. - Om in Bengali and Oriya script. Clear resemblance. Gurbar Akaal!

Great Bro. So far, best dealing with someone who is constantly avoiding to see what reality is, by having closed himself in a dirty obscured bubble, which keeps him in a constant state of hallucination day and night. He just keeps on asking how or what, sikhs do this or think about that, then he keeps denying any given answers, but the thing is, why the hell, he never says what he thinks about how things should be .... If he is so sure that he is right and we are all wrong, why does he not vomit out for once and all the stupidity, which makes him behave so arrogantly.... Maybe he is afraid, that if he vomits out all the nonsense he has within, he may get a correct diagnose of his malady and get a right medication, which will cure his self inflated ego, and break his bubble from which he refuses to come out. Let us see, how long he keeps stuck in his self ahankar. Then too, he has the cheek to say people throw dirt on him. Which is untrue. What the hell about his dirt which he constantly keeps on throwing on sikhee and its validity, do you foolishly expect sangat to pat on your back? Get lost, and only return back when you become not to say a good sikh, but even a normal sikh will do, which means humble and respectful with Gurbani and Guru Sahiban. Only that much.

Yeah, and if we followed this apologist logic, we might even end up like the RC church or Pakistani Muslims in the UK. It's good to try and tackle these things head on and face them. When you don't they just grow and grow until the stink is apparent for everyone to see. BTW, we aren't Christians, so expecting us to follow their strategies is silly.

@RajKaregaKhalsa1 for having deep, insightful posts @harsharan000 for having such nimarta and pyar for the sangat. @jkvlondon for her immense gian. @Singh2017 even though its been ages since he came to this forum lol

You're full of ego. An egotist can never understand God or spirituality. You think that you're invincible. One day, you're going to die, and be presented in the Court of the Dharam Raj. And you'll have nothing to say for yourself. Just a useless life of poking fun at the Guru and his saints. ਆਪੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੈ ਭੋਗ ਭੋਗਿ ਕੈ ਹੋਇ ਭਸਮੜਿ ਭਉਰੁ ਸਿਧਾਇਆ ॥ Aapeenhai Bhog Bhog Kai Hoe Bhasamarr Bhour Sidhhaaeiaa || Enjoying his pleasures, one is reduced to a pile of ashes, and the soul passes away. ਵਡਾ ਹੋਆ ਦੁਨੀਦਾਰੁ ਗਲਿ ਸੰਗਲੁ ਘਤਿ ਚਲਾਇਆ ॥ Vaddaa Hoaa Dhuneedhaar Gal Sangal Ghath Chalaaeiaa || He may be great, but when he dies, the chain is thrown around his neck, and he is led away. ਅਗੈ ਕਰਣੀ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਵਾਚੀਐ ਬਹਿ ਲੇਖਾ ਕਰਿ ਸਮਝਾਇਆ ॥ Agai Karanee Keerath Vaacheeai Behi Laekhaa Kar Samajhaaeiaa || There, his good and bad deeds are added up; sitting there, his account is read. ਥਾਉ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਪਉਦੀਈ ਹੁਣਿ ਸੁਣੀਐ ਕਿਆ ਰੂਆਇਆ ॥ Thhaao N Hovee Poudheeee Hun Suneeai Kiaa Rooaaeiaa || He is whipped, but finds no place of rest, and no one hears his cries of pain. ਮਨਿ ਅੰਧੈ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਇਆ ॥੩॥ Man Andhhai Janam Gavaaeiaa ||3|| The blind man has wasted his life away. ||3|| ਆਸਾ ਵਾਰ (ਮਃ ੧) ੩:੫ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੪੬੪ ਪੰ. ੧੨ Raag Asa Guru Nanak Dev

You read a line or two, and you think you know what Gurbani is saying? The fact is, Gurbani says the vast majority of people are not distinct in the way that matters. Here, I'll give you a line, for free, that you might think supports you: ਮੇਰੈ ਪ੍ਰਭਿ ਸਾਚੈ ਇਕੁ ਖੇਲੁ ਰਚਾਇਆ ॥ Maerai Prabh Saachai Eik Khael Rachaaeiaa || My True Lord God has staged a play. ਕੋਇ ਨ ਕਿਸ ਹੀ ਜੇਹਾ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥ Koe N Kis Hee Jaehaa Oupaaeiaa || He has created no one like anyone else. ਮਾਰੂ ਸੋਲਹੇ (ਮਃ ੩) (੧੩) ੧:੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੦੫੬ ਪੰ. ੧੧ Raag Maaroo Guru Amar Das That, however, is not referring to lifestyle. Regarding that, Gurbani says: ਫਰੀਦਾ ਦੁਨੀ ਵਜਾਈ ਵਜਦੀ ਤੂੰ ਭੀ ਵਜਹਿ ਨਾਲਿ ॥ Fareedhaa Dhunee Vajaaee Vajadhee Thoon Bhee Vajehi Naal || Fareed, the world dances as it dances, and you dance with it as well. ਸੋਈ ਜੀਉ ਨ ਵਜਦਾ ਜਿਸੁ ਅਲਹੁ ਕਰਦਾ ਸਾਰ ॥੧੧੦॥ Soee Jeeo N Vajadhaa Jis Alahu Karadhaa Saar ||110|| That soul alone does not dance with it, who is under the care of the Lord God. ||110|| ਸਲੋਕ ਫਰੀਦ ਜੀ (ਮਃ ੫) (੧੧੦):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੩੮੩ ਪੰ. ੧੮ Salok Baba Sheikh Farid Gurbani states that the vast majority of the world are manmukhs, only a few are Gurmukhs: ਹੈਨਿ ਵਿਰਲੇ ਨਾਹੀ ਘਣੇ ਫੈਲ ਫਕੜੁ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥੧੨॥ Hain Viralae Naahee Ghanae Fail Fakarr Sansaar ||12|| The Saints are few and far between; everything else in the world is just a pompous show. ||12|| ਸਲੋਕ ਵਾਰਾਂ ਤੇ ਵਧੀਕ (ਮਃ ੧) (੧੨):੧ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੪੧੧ ਪੰ. ੯ Salok Vaaraan and Vadheek Guru Nanak Dev

In my experience the only people who are against Khalistan are the ones who are ultra hippy Sikh types, are alligned politically to the Congress or Badal Akali Dal, secular cultural almost atheist type Sikhs, ultra nationalist Hindus or families who have a bad taste in the mouth from Kharku justice and of course RSS/BJP/RAW agents. What’s your story?

I do not support Khalistan but if I had been presented the above I would accept Khalistan. 1947 was the best chance for Khalistan to come to a reality. I still feel within India, Punjab can be great again. just need to right people to come into power at the state level to get things started.

@jkvlondon Perhaps you have misunderstood my reference to what I'm regarding as truth as to me when referring to truth in Gurbani, it's not just about something as simple as "what goes up, must come down" so sayeth the Guru and it won't change. To elaborate, concepts such as duty, truthful living, virtues and acceptance to me are all part of the truth that I'm farming framing Gurbani in and what I'm regarding as "truth". Guru Nanak Dev jee challenged those of his time and presented his truth. However there were plenty of other pre-existing granths but at no point did he or is successors name them as "jhoot/perishable". Do you not think that in a thousand years time we may know something we don't currently know ? If Guru Nanak Dev jee was to come again (hypothetically) would he challenge the society and its issues with what he challenged the brahmins with in the 1500s? Would he still be talking about the narrative of Ram and Ravan? " please do not frame gurbani in the second category " Please don't bring your emotion in to this as this is supposed to a forum of discussion and I assure you that I do not have any ill intentions towards Gurbani. Everyone holds the right to think for themselves. There's no perfect answer, it's a discussion for us to take something away and not always as black and white as it may seem.

With all respect to our Dharmic Granths and Guru Ji, one does not alleviate his doubts by just reading. This is why we have the concept of sangat. Just saying something is verified or that something is divine and the absolute truth is illogical. All other faiths claim that their religous texts are the "truth". I've had the fortune to spend time amongst plenty of healthy minded Gurmukhs and one thing I can say is, I wouldn't have gotten anywhere had they just told me to read Guru jee's bani. I've also seen the quality of life that those which just read, misquote and misrepresent the essence of Gurbani. Not only is that such a misdirection to the approach of Gurmat it is plain outright dangerous and with information so readily avaialble no longer applicable.

Wow, have you ever bothered to read Gurbani, or do you just spout your own random thoughts? Forget Gurbani, have you ever read Nitnem in your life? From Anand Sahib: ਭਗਤਾ ਕੀ ਚਾਲ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ॥ Bhagathaa Kee Chaal Niraalee || The lifestyle of the devotees is unique and distinct. ਚਾਲਾ ਨਿਰਾਲੀ ਭਗਤਾਹ ਕੇਰੀ ਬਿਖਮ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਚਲਣਾ ॥ Chaalaa Niraalee Bhagathaah Kaeree Bikham Maarag Chalanaa || The devotees' lifestyle is unique and distinct; they follow the most difficult path. ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਅਨੰਦ (ਮਃ ੩) (੧੪):੨ - ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੯੧੮ ਪੰ. ੧੮ Raag Raamkali Guru Amar Das It's quite clear Guru Sahib is calling on us to be distinct.

Bro even if a golden hand came out from the sky and saved you from getting hit by a bus your mind will make million's of excuses to say that wasn't real, it was a hallucination etc. Guru is right full stop we have so many people who were there at the time of the Sakhis and many many scholars Bhai Vir Singh hi etc.

I agreement that you posts are absurd. I have reviewed some of your yourtube content also - if you do not agree with the way in which the faith is and the way in which the faithful practice the faith do not comment on them. I am at a disbelief that someone who has Kesh and ties a Dastar is questioning the very purpose of the identity that he is keeping - its Ludacris. We have enough people trying to tarnish our community as it is without requiring for members of the community themselves try and tarnish us! You don't have faith - that's fine You need evidential proof - that's fine. Tell me this - can you prove that your mother is your mother and your father is your father? Have you ever questioned your father if he is your father? No you wouldn't because you have faith in his word - it is akin to questioning the purpose of the Kakkar - and the purpose of Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji - my Guru gave us a hukam - there is no need to question. Aap Guru Kartar - The Guru himself is the All Prevading Being. You need a tight slap - someone born of the Sikh faith is referring to the Guru as just poetry - the Gian that Guru sahib gives us is immeasurable. Its time for indioviduals like you / and others to stop trating Maharaj as an idol, if you pick the Rumalla up just once and take a glimpse of the Guru and Read and Vichaar on its word maybe just maybe your eyes will open!

Dumma is not Taksal. Taksal has always followed Gurmat. Dhadrianwale has never done more parchar. He has no knowledge or jeevan to be a Sikh. He is the very definition of a parrot. Today the nastik have put a leash around his neck and he barks for them. Tomorrow somebody else will have their leash around his neck and he will bark for them.

Yet again @mahandulai do you have nothing better to do than point fingers at either our doctrine, our way of life or the Kakkars. If you do not have the faith that's fair enough but do not bring your negativity to a site which : a) Is high spirited and proud of our History and achievements. b) Is here to support and Guide. I can understand if you has posed your question in a way in which others could maybve help you understand, however you submit point blank opinions with no evidence and expect a discussion! Pick up a history book - It'll do you wonders! Gur Fateh

AGREED! My thoughts also ran on food on first instinct. Now I can google this but wha types of food would you recommend t get D up n running in the systems?

i think it was always "on" not "om" i think this was changed as guru nanak dev ji when he went to the sidhis he put them on the right road by saying that "ona" only represents the 3 chele so where is god in all this....so he brought to them "Onkar" "kar" means continuous one that never ends etc..and "ik" as added as there is only one who is continuous. Now, i think, the jogis use "onkar" to meditate on not "on" Sikhs are given the full moolmanter not just ik onkar as to meditate just on "ik onkar" is quite powerful hence why it shouldnt be attempted. For a clear katha on ik onkar etc you should download the katha by giani thakur singh he goes into more deph of what "ona" means and how "ik onkar" came about :wub: - www.gurmatveechar.com and jap ji sahib katha or ill be happy to send it too you if you are unable to get it form that site.

Sat Sri Akal: Om origionally stood for the One Almighty. However, Om became entangled with the three primary Hindu dieties. So Om has now come to represent Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. However, Ik Onkaar was written specifically to talk of the ONE Almighty, independent of the three dieties. Some info: http://www.hindunet.org/aum/