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Daas has a question. When Sri Guru Harkrishan Sahib Ji did joti jot they gave bachan ‘baba bakale’ (next guru sahiban are at Bakala sahib). But it would be 26 years before Sri Guru Tegh Bhadur Sahib Ji became pargat (guru sahib were in deep bhagati that period). If you think about it it’s beyond crazy that why guru sahib ji were living gupat that long? Why not guru sahib ji could have made thousands or millions of sikhs in that time, or even established raj over India or the world?

Are you referring to saints being born in kalyug? If you are then let me just share something. Those saints and pure souls who have taken birth despite it being kalyug, they come in Pyaar. They come because they have experienced Vaheguru ji's kirpa and they want to spread it to others ?. Their not born in a wrong yug! Their purpose is to change the yug and spread the qualities of Satyug. Other souls that come are also Shaheed Singhs and Singhnis. They come for similar reasons as well. Some come to get justice, such as the thousands of Khalsa that have taken birth and are all present now mostly in teenage age. They came to establish Khalsa Raj. All souls that come, come with their preordained destiny that Vaheguru ji has written. Nobody is born in a wrong yug veerji. We all come to do Vaheguru ji's work. ???? Bhul Chuk Maf ji ? Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh!

Gurdwaras should be willing to train the art of shastars.

Whatever the production standards of these movies are the fact is that after three decades the Sikh side of the story with regard to operation Bluestar and the Sikh struggle is getting told and a great many Sikhs will now know the truth rather than the propaganda of the Indian govt.

I've seen it it still has the Bollywood kind of cheesy moments but overall it's historically accurate and does a good job depicting the thinking and actions of the Singh's and the atrocities of the police

Come on man. Be realistic. On the ground, how many weak apnay and apneean have we got?

being a sikh is very interesting you learn masses of different languages to communicate with others, you socialise with people and help the unfortunate instead of wasting time sitting in front of a box which hynotises you and indoctrinates your mind to consume more and destroy the planet . Sikhi is timeless just like God , football as a formal sport is only about one hundred years old and TV only just over 60 years , do you think people didn't have fun or happiness before ? Just use your talents and body in a positive, life-enhancing way , become skilled in martial arts , physically stronger /faster , challenge yourself . Sports on TV and the other programming is designed to brainwash and anaethetise humans so they don't notice the shackles being put on them mentally , finanacially and physically. Be awake , watch sports , play sports , use tech but be aware and in control

i thought sikhi was a way to god not to live in a time bubble .Must not use technogy watch football and live in a mud hut to be religiously cleansed.I want the happy things in life not a boring existence

Yes, ultimately it's the sellouts that play both sides for their own gain that have let the side down. They're still at it to this day, a prime example being the Badals.

I wonder if these guys are Badal's bum-chums?

I wanted to know if anyone else has had experiences of racist/funny reactions from blacks. Out of all the ethnicities in London, it is black people I feel I get the funniest looks from when wearing a dastar. I very nearly got into a fight with one once too because he kept looking at me (mind you I kept looking at him too). I have experienced similar looks throughout the years when wearing a dastar or patka from black men and women alike. Once a black woman was properly eyeballing me when I was younger in a patka. I saw an incident at the Nagar Kirtan after party in Southall once where a black man was being abusive to all the Sikhs. Then I heard from someone I worked with (a Sikh) that a black man randomly attacked him at the Vaisakhi celebrations another year (he bit his face for no reason). Then I remember seeing another black man during the actual day parade another year walking through the crowd like he wanted to beat someone up. Absolute chip on his shoulder. The nerve on this guy (he was surrounded by thousands of Sikhs). And then I remember someone posted something on this forum once about an incident at the Nagar Kirtan up north where a man aggressively drove through the crowd and hit or nearly hit someone with his car. Again, he turned out to be black. I am the only once who has noticed this or does there seem to be some sort of issue they have against Sikhs? Or is it all in my head? With all the recent Islamophobic attacks, funnily, a good chunk of them have been from black people. Again, todays news shows two black women beating up a muslim woman in Southwark on a bus. Mind you, all the incidents I have described happened way before the recent wave of Islamophobia. I don't know what their issues are if there are any (maybe they are jealous on some level) that we have kept our culture/heritage? Or perceive us to be weak targets (religious good boys they can bully or something like that?) I don't know. I'm perplexed.

Going back to the topic, here are some interesting views from a renowned economist Thomas Sowell (who happens to be black) about race, discrimination regarding blacks. https://youtu.be/V6ZPg6kOBkc

I think it is driven from fear on their side. I see it as they are scared of blacks on an individual, physical basis but outside of their ability to cause temporary havoc like riots they aren't really scared of their culture. In fact, to the contrary, they actually exoticise and mimic some of their culture in how they talk, dress and the music they listen to (reggae, soul, R&B) thinking it is cool. With 'asians' they are driven of fear from our cultures and religions which they see as difficult to penetrate (as you've noticed) and a potential source of unification against them (baring Hindus who they see as effeminate, compliant b1tches). That also ties into why they are jumping around to derail the Anand karaj for Sikhs only movement. Thing is, a big arse, game Singh with a kirpan is still something ingrained in collective memory of older whites, and they are slightly wary of that. Back in days (70s/80s) believe it not some racist whites used to say "watch out for the ones with the turbans, they're the worst ones!" How times have changed... I think some mixed-race people resent asians because of some underlying envy they probably aren't consciously aware of. I think that feeling of not belonging here nor there effects some of them and makes them angry towards some more insular communities. Remember they are often taught that they are the future and the more mixed raced people there are, the less racism will manifest. So they might even be thinking we are holding back progress. Also they are probably subconsciously picking up on the general contempt felt for 'weak, smelly pakis'. All of them (white, black, mixed-race) also probably feel excluded by us? It's not as complicated as that - they simply know they are infinitely more likely to get their ar5ses whooped by them on a personal level than us.

I've thought about this too. I reckon it could also be a guilty conscience thing about the past i.e. slavery. They go out of the way to show they are not racist to them because of the collective guilty conscience.

Good points. I think there's an element of truth in your theories. Equally, blacks were literally slaves for many, many years in various places, so us being conquered isn't something black folk can get on their high horse about.The integration / assimilation point is spot on. They (whites) really do want us to lose everything of ours that makes us who we are. Deep down - and they'll never admit it - they consider Indians and Blacks to be inferior races; savages. They'll contort themselves into all manner of shapes to deny it, but it's true. The difference between us and blacks being that there's an element of fear the white man feels about black people, that simply isn't there when it comes to us. In a way, this current age of Islamic extremism is sowing the seeds for them to be feared by the white guy in much the same way, but the slight difference being the Muslim is perceived to be from the same - or quite similar geographically - sub-continental race / location that we originate from. I think it'll take a few more generations for the Muslims to gain that alpha quality (rightly or wrongly) that the blacks have naturally. And all it took was international terrorism(!). Take a wild guess.

Me and my half white and half indian friend always talk about this. It's so deep. One of his reasons is that the British conquered India but the Chinese didn't get conquered hence they have more respect for the Chinese which I'm not sure I agree with. I reckon the main reason is this. Brits like to think of themselves as very open and accepting and tolerant. The thing is, they are not, unless you completely assimilate. For them, integration is not enough. They want you to completely lose everything about your culture/religion. Only then, you may be accepted as much as Dwayne the kala. There is a massive difference between integration and assimilation but when they talk about integration, what they are really talking about is assimilation. Even the Chinese, they have english names etc and they don't have any blatant religious/cultural clothing like we do in this country.

Yes mate, I'm glad you said this. I noticed mixed race people to be some of the worst offenders. I mean, they don't know where they stand. They can have the race hate from their white side and then the aggressiveness and ghettoness from the black side. Makes it a perfect cocktail to take out on us browns. I remember when I was in college (I was a bit less confrontational then, but even then was at times) I was speaking to a mixed race girl from my class on the bus. Her friend (a mixed race guy) came on the bus and started chatting to her. When I spoke to her, he asked me what I want. The convo got started between them again before I had time to say anything (tbh, I was taken a bit back by it and didn't know what to say). I then heard him whisper to her 'don't talk to him (me), he is not our kind'. He didn't say it to my face he mumbled it to her. I regret not confronting him about it to this day (he was just talking to her about how he'd been arrested so I reckon I may have been a bit intimated by that). But if it happened today, I wouldn't give a toss. Losers, and they call us racists! Not saying blacks can't have the race hate as they can and they do

Yeah I'm fine when having convos with people eye contact wise. But I'm just saying generally, I think people look at each other too much anyway (myself included at times) which can lead to all sorts of feelings of 'why is that person looking at me', from both sides. What I want to do is just be more focused on my internal thoughts and state of presence.

Yeah too many pushovers in our community, not all but probably the majority. They need to be more confrontational but I think a lot of us have been brought up to think having a school fight is the biggest sin in the world. Oh, it's gonna be the end of your future, career, reputation blah blah blah. I remember hearing this when I was younger.

Not really relevant to the topic is it. I'm talking about regular West Indians and Africans, British or non British born and the reasons why they may have issues against Sikhs. I highly doubt all the ones if any I'm talking about have been Muslim.

Who's not aware? I am aware of Rastas but they are very few compared to Sikhs especially in the UK. Also, I'm not saying it's purely the turban. I think being Indian with the Turban is what may be setting them off (the ones who get set off).

Yeah. I'm also wandering if it's anything particularly against pugh wale rather than just Indians. Because every now and then I just tie a joora behind my head and don't wear a pugh. I was in fact doing this for a while. I didn't get the sort of looks and feeling from them as I do when I wear a pugh. I have a theory that some of them are jealous or even intimidated by it in that we have kept this part of our culture but they lost theirs? I don't know. Then even my other theory about being seen as goody two shoe soft targets because of being religious?

despite all they have experienced there are such things as Black people being racists , I have noticed West Africans really are not friendly to Indians in general and some are very nasty to sikhs as well bu it is a recent phenomena because we have family friends from way back who even took me to hospital A and E when I had an accident and they still show the love now we are all grown up with kids of our own. When I was a kid it was really a case of the black kids joined in picking on me to deflect off them from the whiteys. Now it's pure ignorance that is the reason ...

AND HINDUSTAN! :TH:

Jingle Bell Bhangra is better