degradation of kirtan

[Jaspaul Singh]

Akaal108 veerji...

i jsut wana get one thing straight... r u only against that specific file ? Ive heard people going out of control in some smagams... can you comment on such other cases (specifically maybe bhai manpreet singh etx...) ... where the kirtan gets intense and the simran is just WOW... and the sangat in the back takes over...

What are your comments on that ... simple answer  ji... do you agree with that or no ??? Is that also your base of your point???

102014[/snapback]

Yes i m against that specific file..that's why you didn't see me bringin groups/people/jatha into this.

102016[/snapback]

ok... so your ok with the other stuff i said ???

[smartsingh24]

How others say "Vaheguru" is their personal business.  It is human nature to criticize those things we know nothing about.  Unless you do it yourself and experience it, can you say anything. 

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!!

102010[/snapback]

Yes no doubt...it's their personal business..but it becomes everybody business the way it's said in Guru Maharaj Hazoori and Sangat because then you are not following Individualistic maryada but you are following panthik maryada. !

Note: I got no problem with Individualistic maryada but one should not bring individiualistic maryada in Panthik maryada.

102011[/snapback]

you're quoted right there talking about how important it is to follow marayada. All of a sudden it doesn't matter. Which one is it?

[Guest Akaal108]

How others say "Vaheguru" is their personal business.  It is human nature to criticize those things we know nothing about.  Unless you do it yourself and experience it, can you say anything. 

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!!

102010[/snapback]

Yes no doubt...it's their personal business..but it becomes everybody business the way it's said in Guru Maharaj Hazoori and Sangat because then you are not following Individualistic maryada but you are following panthik maryada. !

Note: I got no problem with Individualistic maryada but one should not bring individiualistic maryada in Panthik maryada.

102011[/snapback]

you're quoted right there talking about how important it is to follow marayada. All of a sudden it doesn't matter. Which one is it?

102018[/snapback]

Yes following gurmat sangeet maryada is important...yes kirtan in raags are important....but there are excepational cases where kirtan cannot be done in raags due to lack of knowledge, luxury, teachers that is understandable.

But i m outrightly against the whole idea of creating your own sound track/yelling/screaming in Guru Maharaj darbar such as - hauraaaaaaaaaaaah, brauaaaaaaaaaah, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggrrrrrrrruuu.

I don't mind them creating their own rhythms in their house hold but I do mind them BRINGIN such own sound tracks in Gurdwara - darbar/throne of Guru Maharaj.

It's Gurdwara for Vahiguroo's sake not Chiiriyaaaaaaaaa khana/jungle.

I don't know how you samagam lovers will feel when black sikh who is amritdhari comes along with new trend of singin kirtan, doing simran in the sangat in his RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP/RAGAE STYLE in front of Guru Maharaj Darbar.

For me that's offensive....i ll tell him if i was in charge calmly that this is not ghetto street hood and make him understand there are certain rules to be followed in hazoori of Guru Maharaj.

This story posted by shamsher singh really serves its purpose in this thread:

Read it carefully:

To conclude I just wish to tell this story:

There was once a king who had an ignorant servant who loved him dearly. He told his king: I'll kill anyone who tries to touch you!!! One day the king was having a nap and a bee landed on his nose. The servant drew his sword and killed the bee but in the act also killed his king whom he loved so much.

Love is no excuse for ignorance or incompetence.

[smartsingh24]

It's people like you that make it tough for people who want to share their talents. Obviously, rap isn't the place for keertan samagams, but it could find it's place. I can't tell you how many people I know listen to Immortal Productions and their works. It isn't my cup of tea, but you still have to respect what they have to offer, and they're style. I remember going to a raensbahee and listening to a woman do shabads with a Guitar. I pray that anyone who trys to do the same doesn't cross paths with you, especially when they're peforming.

[japmans]

k, jus to be clear, for my owwwwn curiosity...clear up a bit of confusion that i'm getting here....

akaal: are you implying there should be a differentiation made between guru sahib's saroop at home and guru sahib's saroop at some man-made communal physical structure we call a gurdwara?

[Jaspaul Singh]

veerai i dont get it ...

THERE ARE SOO MANY GURSIKHS ... sitting in sanagt... listening to this simran going on where people are going gru gru ( i never heard this so called bruaah and hauraahh like u mentioned only in da specific file) but i have heard ppl saying gruuu... if these gursikhs are not saying anything is wrong wit it ... then why r u ?? i am questioning u cuz i know u .. why r u questioning this.. all these gursikhs r sitting in sangat loving it .. if someone else comes and sees this and gets turned off .. dats fine i guess they dont understand the true meaning.. even myself i was like wat da ... is this... like we have to look at it wit an open mind...

... imagine a singh in sanagt ... out of no where hes getting so into the simran that he starts doing simran ... louder and louder... and starts saying gruuuu at times ... ad he DOESNT care what ppeople think of him or think how hes singing but just cares of thatblessed vision hes getting in his mind at that moment..

well anyway ive said enough im prob gona take a break but i dont think that will happen ...

bhul chuk maph

[Guest Akaal108]

It's people like you that make it tough for people who want to share their talents. Obviously, rap isn't the place for keertan samagams, but it could find it's place. I can't tell you how many people I know listen to Immortal Productions and their works. It isn't my cup of tea, but you still have to respect what they have to offer, and they're style. I remember going to a raensbahee and listening to a woman do shabads with a Guitar. I pray that anyone who trys to do the same doesn't cross paths with you, especially when they're peforming.

102022[/snapback]

Yes that's is fine but immortal productions are in fact doing great work..really support them but if they were doing it in infront of Guru Maharaj throne..that's where i think any like minded individual will have problem.

For you - kirtan sung in rap format is problem with you..same here..

similiarly - i have a problem with people who bringin their own sound tracks and what i heard that link i didn't find it funny but really really SAD . ! because this days Guru Darbar is not treated as throne of Guru but just treated an holy book lying down... but rare are gurmukhs who behave in Guru's Darbar..turn off their cell phones, refrain from adding their own sound tracks/yelling/screaming.

I wonder such thing was done in front of Guru Gobind Singh Ji before Siri Guru Granth Sahib was given Gurgaddi by 10th master.

[Guest Akaal108]

k, jus to be clear, for my owwwwn curiosity...clear up a bit of confusion that i'm getting here....

akaal:    are you implying there should be a differentiation made between guru sahib's saroop at home and guru sahib's saroop at some man-made communal physical structure we call a gurdwara?

102023[/snapback]

No difference but again it wouldn't hurt the sangat which is Guru Roop since you are doing it privately in your house hold .. it's between you and Guru..

Sangat is not involved.

[smartsingh24]

who are you to act as a conduit of feedback? For all we know, guru ji would like hearing kirtan in rap. It doesn't matter what we like, as long as the love of god and guru ji is there.

[Sony]

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh.

In all honesty, this should not be a conterversial topic....

Jio, Raag is a gift that has been given to us by our Guru Sahibaan. However, what people dont seem to understand is that not everyone is given the gift of understanding raag, the same way that people are not given the gift of understanding kirtan done in non-raag style.

Ji, there are some that say that the way to our guru's, understanding their words is through doing kirtan in raag only, to understand the true meaning, to get that true feeling, however, how do we know what way it is for us to meet God? There are some Gursikhs who obtained the one true Lord by just doing seva, by the sweetness of their voice, others because of their truthfullness, some because they gave their head to their guru and kept true to their word, others cus they died for their guru, some died for truth, some cared for all people not looking at who the enemy was and who was allie, still others recieved that love from Guru ji just because of who they are..... my point here is that there isnt one way... whether its the way a gursikh lives or the way he sings.... its in guru ji's hands.

as time went on, Gursikhs started singing guru ji's words using other means then raag, it was a way to get Sikhs back, a way to intice Sikhs.... It is true that we should respect Raag since our Guru ji's did write shabads in raag, however, like i said not everyone understands it. this is we as Sikhs are in error, i agree... we people should spend more time trying to understand Raag, but why do we need to put others down? How do u know their avastha? ji, from what one of the singh's mentioned i think, this was not to be shared with the public. it has been made public therefore it has become a public thing, however it wasnt intended to be. The Sikhs that attended the samagam may not have felt scared or that it was wrong.

everyone starts at some point... they are brought into sikhi in some way... not everyone is the same, not everyone appreciates the things the same... guru ji is not obtained by only one way.... as i mentioned above, many Gursikhs have reached our Guru's by different means.... different paths... they were not always to have been thought of as sane... actually many of the great bhagats were thought to be crazy at their own time.....

the last thing is.... do we not say, nething that brings u closer to God is good, nething that takes u away is bad. even if its temporary, for that little while, they are thinking of their guru ji and enjoying themselves in their light.....

the thing that gets to me the most is what have we learned from kirtan? from Gurbani so far? how to put others down? how to argue? telling others that the way they do simran is wrong and they cant obtain God. Understand one thing, it is Guru ji and Guru ji alone that chooses, that decides. Not us.

Bhul Chuk Maaf