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degradation of kirtan


drawrof
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Dasan Dass,

easy man !..

I am clarifying this to jss...

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Sorry its jsut your keep referring to the 'gurrooo' etx.. what you have heard... over and over and OVER again...s ound RELI repetitive and getting to me ...

and i think jss knows exactly what your talkin about !

bhul chuk maph!

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Guest Akaal108
I totally agree with drawrof, not singing Kirtan in Raag is a direct insult to Guru Ji, but I guess no one cares when doing something takes time to learn.  Anyone can hide behind the veil of "how do you know how much love he has?", and break the maryada.  Ever noticed how the "love" card doesnt fit in when people talk about aspects such as kesh, sarbloh bibek, type of kirpan you wear, how long your kacheras nala is etc etc etc.  In those "debates", if you love Guru Ji then you follow sarbloh bibek, if you dont follow it then you dont love Guru Ji, seems that no one is able to make the comparison when it comes to Kirtan Maryada.

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Interesting points here.

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i would just like to comment on one point raised...

the original poster starts his thread by talking about the way to act in a "soveirgns' court...a king's court... a royal court..

while i in no way would ever imagine that our guru ji is not king of kings....i think that maybe we should examine this a bit closer...

i mean..yes..guru ji is the king of kings...

and yes..there should be some definite ways of giving that respect to guru ji...

HOWEVER,

the original poster has in a way brought down guru ji from the KING of KINGS...to simply a king by comparing the etiquette in a regular king's court to the etiquiette in guru ji's court...

we should not forget that along with being the king of kings, guru ji is our father, our mother, our best friend....how many kings can claim to be all that?

so if my king is also my mother, my father, and my best friend...am i necessarily bound to observe strict decorum at all times?...if i suddenly feel immense amounts of love for my king, father, mother, best friend...do i necessarily have to sit their all composed and say "i love you'....or would it not be perfectly acceptable to yell "waheguru waheguru waheguru" from my heart, from every pore of my being??? really...you think guru ji is gonna classify that as PAAP??

i just wanted to add that...cuz as good as it is to consider guru ji as kings of all kings, lets not forget that he is our mother, father, best friend...all of them ...

me personally, i have a heard time believe that in guru ji's court, if some person walked in singing guru ji's pavitar bani in the only tune he knew..or "out of tune" guru ji would have him barred or stopped....i picture guru ji having the biggest smile on his face, taking that sikh into his loving arms and giving him a big hug and showering that sikh with love....

would he then get him raag lessons? (definite possibility...hehe)

i'm not trying to undermine the importance of raag..i don't think anyone is...

at the same time...it's important to realize that we should not be such sticklers on this issue...especially if people are doing simran, kirtan, with full concentration on the bani...full concentration on guru ji...with love, with sharda, with innocence...

sant attar singh ji is famous for saying this line:

guru dhay gun gaaoo, bhavaay katayangudaaoo

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Also a great post ... :TH:

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why dont u find out who that kirtanee was ... im sure it would be EASY to do dat for u ... and then ask him urself instead of attacking him ... and yes this is nindya... doesnt matter if he was wrong or right... ur still talkin bad about him...

anyway ... rest is up to u ...

I dont agree with that statement...

What is a Sikh, on the most basic level...

Someone who stands for the TRUTH, no matter who stands with him or not, a Sikh is the seeker of t ruth...

so if Akal 108 is write in saying that someone is doing wrong, he has every right to say so... he did not attack the persons character...

look Guru Gobind Singh Ji enouraged his Singhs to question him, why cant we question Singhs they arent higher than Guru Gobind Singh Ji... Guru Gobind Singh Ji purposely bowed down to a muslim or hindu dera and the Singhs were like GURU JI U ARENT SUPPOSE TO DO THAT, Guru Ji is like im making sure my Singhs will stand up for the truth....

Same thing applies here, dont say Nindya is questioning someones actions or acts, there is nothing wrong with that, aslong as u dont attack someoens character... or make something up...

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why dont u find out who that kirtanee was ... im sure it would be EASY to do dat for u ... and then ask him urself instead of attacking him ... and yes this is nindya... doesnt matter if he was wrong or right... ur still talkin bad about him...

anyway ... rest is up to u ...

I dont agree with that statement...

What is a Sikh, on the most basic level...

Someone who stands for the TRUTH, no matter who stands with him or not, a Sikh is the seeker of t ruth...

so if Akal 108 is write in saying that someone is doing wrong, he has every right to say so... he did not attack the persons character...

look Guru Gobind Singh Ji enouraged his Singhs to question him, why cant we question Singhs they arent higher than Guru Gobind Singh Ji... Guru Gobind Singh Ji purposely bowed down to a muslim or hindu dera and the Singhs were like GURU JI U ARENT SUPPOSE TO DO THAT, Guru Ji is like im making sure my Singhs will stand up for the truth....

Same thing applies here, dont say Nindya is questioning someones actions or acts, there is nothing wrong with that, aslong as u dont attack someoens character... or make something up...

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but what if that person who hes attacking was not aware he was saying that... what if he was in a one on one connection wit guru sahib... what if he wasnt aware of wat and how he was saying ...

its kinda funny BUT it can be true... so all im saying is ask dat person... and now you never know if he apologizes and says im sorry i didnt mean to ,... u may have your answer... who knows how old this is ... ?? what if singhs have alrdy questioned this singh and asked him to explain himself... what if this is alrdy resolved... what if !?!?! THAT is why im asking it is BEST to ask that person yourself !!

cuz u dont normally see anything clsoe to what we heard in that file... if yes please point it out to me ...

bhul chuk maph...

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Guest Akaal108
but what if that person who hes attacking was not aware he was saying that... what if he was in a one on one connection wit guru sahib... what if he wasnt aware of wat and how he was saying ...

Even at bhramgyan stage you don't loose consciouness unless - you leave the body (PanJ Bhotak Chola)

This is not opnion..but school of thought and it's proven.

And if you don't loose your consciouness - you know what kriya(task) you doing.

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If i remember correctly, drawof has aplogized for what he said, as it did not come out the way he had intended it to come out, he had not meant to put this person down but to use this as an example... however, that person is now threatening to take legal action against him :doh:.... so in a way, it seems we are not able to question....

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