degradation of kirtan

[Guest Akaal108]

who are you to act as a conduit of feedback? For all we know, guru ji would like hearing kirtan in rap. It doesn't matter what we like, as long as the love of god and guru ji is there.

102028[/snapback]

why you feel need to ask my authority as you probably know i m nothing ..this is forum..i have right like anyone else to challenge certain practices without offending anyone..this is what i m doing.

hehehe you bought up love point again...i guess you didnt read this post by shamsher singh

To conclude I just wish to tell this story:

There was once a king who had an ignorant servant who loved him dearly. He told his king: I'll kill anyone who tries to touch you!!! One day the king was having a nap and a bee landed on his nose. The servant drew his sword and killed the bee but in the act also killed his king whom he loved so much.

Love is no excuse for ignorance or incompetence.

[japmans]

i love you akaal

[Guest Akaal108]

i love you akaal

102031[/snapback]

i hope you are refferring to Akaal /Vahiguroo :e:

[smartsingh24]

who are you to act as a conduit of feedback? For all we know, guru ji would like hearing kirtan in rap. It doesn't matter what we like, as long as the love of god and guru ji is there.

102028[/snapback]

why you feel need to ask my authority as you probably know i m nothing ..this is forum..i have right like anyone else to challenge certain practices without offending anyone..this is what i m doing.

hehehe you bought up love point again...i guess you didnt read this post by shamsher singh

To conclude I just wish to tell this story:

There was once a king who had an ignorant servant who loved him dearly. He told his king: I'll kill anyone who tries to touch you!!! One day the king was having a nap and a bee landed on his nose. The servant drew his sword and killed the bee but in the act also killed his king whom he loved so much.

Love is no excuse for ignorance or incompetence.

102030[/snapback]

I'm not questioning your authority. The fact of the matter is that you're just formulating standards up to your spec and calling them guru ji's.

[maltonak47]

i find the following shabad to be very apropos for the occasion:

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3368

specifically:

kwhU ibhwvY byd Aru bwid ]

kaahoo bihaavai baedh ar baadh ||

Some pass their lives in arguments and debates about scriptures.

sMq rcy kyvl nwm murwrI ]2]

sa(n)th rachae kaeval naam muraaree ||2||

The Saints are absorbed only in the Name of the Lord. ||2||

And

kwhU ibhwvY jog qp pUjw ]

kaahoo bihaavai jog thap poojaa ||

Some pass their lives in Yoga, strict meditation, worship and adoration.

kwhU rog sog BrmIjw ]

kaahoo rog sog bharameejaa ||

Some, in sickness, sorrow and doubt.

kwhU pvn Dwr jwq ibhwey ]

kaahoo pavan dhhaar jaath bihaaeae ||

Some pass their lives practicing control of the breath.

sMq ibhwvY kIrqnu gwey ]4]

sa(n)th bihaavai keerathan gaaeae ||4||

The Saints pass their lives singing the Kirtan of the Lord's Praises. ||4||

And

jqu ko lwieAw iqq hI lgwnw ]

jith ko laaeiaa thith hee lagaanaa ||[/size]

As the Lord attaches us, so we are attached.

nw ko mUVu nhI ko isAwnw ]

naa ko moorr nehee ko siaanaa ||

No one is foolish, and no one is wise.

kir ikrpw ijsu dyvY nwau ] nwnk qw kY bil bil jwau ]8]3]

kar kirapaa jis dhaevai naao || naanak thaa kai bal bal jaao ||8||3||

Nanak is a sacrifice, a sacrifice to those who are blessed by His Grace to receive His Name. ||8||3||

i love that shabad, kinda somes up everything 

101753[/snapback]

i'd like to shine some light ^^

and say tht...w/e works for u...do it...lets stop criticizing...u don like it..don listen to it...noones forcing u..but don't criticize :doh:..cuz thas wher u loose evrything...

[atl singh]

outhdhian bee gurr

southian bee gurrr

[Guest Akaal108]

outhdhian bee gurr

southian bee gurrr

102035[/snapback]

Cheers !

not hruhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa, brauhhhhhhhhhhhh,grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :e:

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

First...WHAT IS WRONG WITH EVERYONE!!! :nihungsmile: 11 pages and still raging...I could have completed an Akhand Paath with your collective energies!

Here is the current situation of Kirtan. Kirtan is prescribed in Raags. True enough. Why do people not like Raagis? Simple. They sit there and use Gurbani to show off their Raag Vidiya. I mean com on, who the @#&% (made up bad word...don't know what it is) cares how well you say "Sa Re Ga Ma Pa De Ne"...somehow, nobody seems to call this Beadbi, and yet it is Maha-Beadbi. Here is the Sadh Sangat taking Anand from the Kirtan and all the sudden, the Raagi has a seizure of the tongue and starts his own Raag Dhuni. Is this right? Raags are prescribed as the STRUCTURE of Gurbani to be sung in. NEVER is Gurbani to be used to show off your Raag skills. Some Raagis (I like Bhai Avtar Singh) do stick mainly to the Gurbani. In the same vein, I attended a Rehansabhai where a very skilled Raagi put his full display of skills of Raag. Basically, he forgot that he was singing Gurbani and broke into Raag. The way he was trying to sing the Guru's words with Raag was also distorting Gurbani. Is this not Beadbi? I have all the respect for Bhai Balbir Singh Ji for his Raag Vidiya, but when he breaks into his "Sa Ne Pa etc." and "AAHAAHAAHAAH"...I want to turn off the Kirtan and go take a nap. Raagis are NOT doing Kirtan properly either. Gurbani states that every moment of life is to be spent in the rememberance of the Almighty through Kirtan. Is this interruption of Haumai really necessary? Hardly. To some Raagis, this is a profession...and unfortunately, it is sung with no Raas. No disrespect to those Raagis that do Raag Kirtan with full devotion and put their heart into it...but they are far and few.

So what happens to those who are fed up with this? They go to Rehansabhais. What is wrong with Rehansabhais? They do not sing Kirtan in Raag. Definitely true. Many use folk tunes and some have been accused of using old Hindi songs (many of which were based on Raags). So what is the attraction? The same attraction that attracts a human being to the side of any baby crying out. It comes straight from the heart. One who attends the Rehansabhai cannot help but be drawn in by Kirtan being done with devotion. And much different from the Raag, the Sangat is fully colored in the Kirtan and joins in the Kirtan, something that no Raagi has yet been able to produce from my witnessing. The emphasis is only on Gurbani and full concentration is devoted to it. Seasoned Kirtanis also do not hesitate to repeat words from the Shabad in a corrective step as they do not want Gurbani to be sung inappropriately. I personally saw a Sikh correcting one Sikh bibi repeatedly in Kirtan for about 1 hour because she was having difficulty. Many of the seasoned Kirtanis are actually trying to at least do their first Shabad in Raag (I believe that this is the tradition of the Harimandir Sahib). And the Kirtan is out of this world. AKJ or not, to this day, the Kirtan that has been the most memorable has been that which non-professional Sikhs have done. And all these "AKJ" Kirtanis started out as simple folks with everyday jobs that came to the Gurudwara and poured their heart out singing Gurbani the only way they knew...in folk tunes and other melodies they were familiar with.

This is the situation of Kirtan today. On one hand, there is Kirtan in Raag without Raas and on the other hand, Kirtan without Raag with full Raas. Sikhs are torn between the two and have had to compromise, which should never have had to happen. May the Almighty merge the two and produce Raag Kirtan done with full Raas and without the AAAs and the EEs. Am I partial to Rehansabhai Kirtan...you bet, I will not hide that fact. But there is also the utmost respect for those Raagis that do Kirtan in Raag with full Raas and without the nonsense.

Gurmantar will not be commented on...too much of a moorakh to even begin to understand another's Avastha.

Moorakh out.

[noonespecial]

Pyaray Akaal Jeeo,

Personally Shamsher Singh doesn't hold a candle to my Guru Sahib's words...

Sach Kaho Sun Laiho Sabhai

Jin PREM KEEO thin hee prabh paiyo..

But since you like stories (as do I) how about this one?

There was once a simple shepherd who lived a really simple life and he had really simple needs. He would look after his sheep everyday, they were his only family and he would really enjoy looking after them...

One night as he sat down to eat under the roof of the starlit sky, an overwhelming feeling of love came over him. He looked up and he saw the night sky lit up with thousands of brilliant stars and he thought, "VAAH, you are wonderful!! You created the heavenly stars and you also created a fool like me!"

He felt so proud to part of the same creation as the beautiful stars. With love filled eyes he said "Tonight, I do not want to eat alone. I want you to eat with me! If you are hungry like me then I would rather feed you. If your clothes are tattered like mine then I would rather mend them than mine. If you smell the way I do then I would rather bathe you - I have no need to keep these things for myself - if I give them to you then it means I also have them!!" The simple man then said "give me a sign that you are here with me and only then shall I begin to eat."

A Faqir was walking past at the same time as this simple man was saying his plea to God. Upon hearing what the simple man was saying the Faqir become infuriated. He went over to the simple man and said "How dare you say these things about God!! God doesn't have tattered clothes, He is never hungry and He does not smell!!" Upon saying these things to the simple man he slapped him as hard as he could and walked off saying "You should be ashamed of yourself!!"

The simple man was still in a state of bliss and said "If you choose to slap me then that is also a divine blessing!! I Love You." The shepherd accepted this as his sign that God was with him and began to eat.

When the Faqir got home he sat down to do his prayers, a voice came and said "Faqir, what have I done to upset you?" The Faqir realised that it was God's voice said "Father, nothing you do could ever upset me!"

"Then why did you slap me?" said the voice. "Slap you? Father I could never slap you!!" said the Faqir.

"I was enjoying the love that the shepherd was giving me, so I sat in his soul, then you came along and slapped him and therefore slapped me," said the voice. "But father, he was saying disrespectful things to you, I had to stop him" said the Faqir. "The insult is in the intention my son, those words that he was saying were like a love song to me because I could feel his heart, while you listened to his words and not his heart!" said the voice.

The Faqir realised what a mistake he had made and asked God for forgiveness...

Waheguru Jee Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Jee Kee Fateh!

[japmans]

.....whoa!