What Jatha are You Part Of?

[Jkaur]

having diff jatha's aint the problem. the more the better at least more parchar can be done. but the problem here is when each jatha start bashing each other while doing parchar.. the problem lies within us.. we cant stand to see another person of another jatha.. we bash each other ... how wiill this effect the generation?? they'll pick all this things up from us too..

gurmukhs that started the jatha never wanted it to be segerated from the khalsa panth.. we oftern harp united we stand divided we fall.. now just look at us.. we've got tones of different jatha that does good parchar but cannot get along with each other because of few tiny problems..

so unless we can set aside the difference and be one.. i dun see anyway else how this problem can be curb..

[japmans]

This is good..really good!!! we have a good discussion and no hating!! THIS is progress!

ok, so now that we've established open lines of communication, this is essentually what is being said:

pro jatha: different types of parchar are needed. Jathas are good, but it's true that some people have made them into bad things.

con jatha: jathas aren't bad, but they're not good, and thus we should all be one. different rehits and bickering over small things means bad!

so this is good... we've got good points made from different sides... we've got goooood points from Khalsa4ever....N30 singh made a huge point... Gabroo makes a good point about different "armies" i believe was his word... JSS veer and chamkila have made good points.

I personally am pro-jatha, but i'm pro-unity...i know this is wierd to hear, but i still think that the mix of jathas allows us to be so much more diverse, yet still so exclusive, i guess the word is. I mean, think about it this way...

Jatha number 1: practises such good sikhi acts.... but perhaps they're missing something that Jatha number 2 who is also practising good sikh acts and stuff, has, and vice versa... This isn't to start a debate about this, so don't use this as a launch point for controversy, and please feel free to refute me (BUT NOT BY MAKING IT CONTROVERSIAL..W.E'VE GOT SUCH A GOOD DISCUSSION GOING ON HERE, JUST POLITELY REFUTE ME PLEASE!!), but let's take for instance, the fact that our veers and bhains from the AKJ, essentially feel that keski is kakaar.. This is good. Who can argue against keski at all? but then we hav

e akal takht who has said that keski or kesh may be used... so is this bad now, for those who don't enforce keski as kakaar? i mean, we're still practising sikhi according with our distinct belief that kesh is kakaar (we = those who don't feel keski is kakaar), and thus, we're still being strong sikhs, and sikhs as Akal Takht wants us to be. i personally feel this should be recognized, that though there are these small views that are different, we can't be blind and say "my way's the highway, you're wrong!!!"... that's wrong...

my views are small, please feel free to refute me, just keep it clean, beg of you... i we have a good discussiong going here..

(this post was edited because i wrote jatha #1, but that emoticon thing showed up so i changed it to jatha number one and jatha numbr two)

[akjforever]

But how can there be different ways of following Sikhism? If there are 10 diffferent Jathas, how can there be 10 different ways of following Sikhi? The reason we are not united is because how can we be if we are not all on the same page so to speak, about how to follow Sikhi? I think first we need to be concrete as to how Sikhi is folllowed before we can be united. I personally think that the current Rehit Marayda should be rewritten to be more clear and precise, there should be no grey areas.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest Akaal108]

akjforever,

Look at any other dharam around... you will find more than 10 different ways within their dharam. They dont go around knocking themselves out... spirtual school doesnt teach intolernace and lack of acceptance or hatred between each other.. if we think thats what it teachs then i m proud to say that sikhi should have been given to gorrah or kalah because we are worse than bandars.. then....sadi bandar drishitiiii aaa..

Whats wrong with different ways???....that only shows sikhi is soo universal that its not binded with one way ...there are more than one beleif or principles you can have... thats why i used the example of school...i ll make it more clearer... you got two schools... st xavier school and st. mother terasa school... now you have to enroll in the school thats a universal way for every school which is (takin amrit), before enrolling its your personal choice to which spirtual school you have to go......

Intolerance and un-acceptance sowwie to says creates hatred, fantacism, wahabism ( i know this word is banned, i love this word, that proves that current sad state of the panth) within sikhs....

akaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal

[IWannaBeAGurSikh]

... now you have to enroll in the school thats a universal way for every school which is (takin amrit), before enrolling its your personal choice to which spirtual school you have to go......

Good way of putting it. Is it not however a problem if both these schools will start competing with each other.

I sometimes think that the jathas have become sikh brand labels and I feel that people are affiliating themselves more and more to these brands. My dad always says that 20 or so years ago, no one really seemed to ask about jathas or where you took amrit, nowadays it's getting more and more common for youths to be affiliated to a specific jatha. AKJforever could easily go under the name Khalsaforever. (not having a dig at you veerji, but I feel giving yourself a name like this seems like you wish to distance yourself from other GurSikhs who are not part of your jatha).

Just my opinion, not having a dig at any jatha or anyone in specific.

[akjforever]

With me having a name like akjforever, I don't see it as AKJ is gonna be forever and every other jatha is no good. I just feel very close with AKJ and they have had a HUGE impact on my life. I have taken amrit from AKJ, but I do not consider myself AKJ, but only a Sikh. And having Jathas is not a bad thing. For example, Taksal and AKJ have done so much for the Panth, does that make them bad for labeling themselves? I think not, when we think of Taksal or AKJ, presitge, honor, and the GurSikhs who are apart of these Jathas come to mind.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Surrey Singh]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

AKJFOREVER: YOU SAID:

I have taken amrit from AKJ, but I do not consider myself AKJ, but only a Sikh.

You mean you didn't take Amrit from the Panj Piaray?

You are not supposed to say you took Amrit from AKJ, Taksal, Sant ______ , etc..etc...

The Panj Piaray gave you Amrit....PERIOD.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Gupt_Singh]

What Bhai Sahib means is that he took amrit from a panj pyare who dictate the rehat which fall in line with what teh AKJ believe to be the original rehat of Guru Gobind Singh.

In the same way you can say you took amrit from the taksal - the panj's rehat they give you will be what they believe to be the original rehat.

Yes it does sound a lil dodgy (not bashing AKJforever) but its a short way of saying the above. The fact is there are differences in rehat, and I personally think these differences can cause rifts but more often make us think more closely about what we follow, follow it more strongly and think more critically instead of following the status quo. From Puratan sources, it looks like arguments over Rehat started in Banda Singh Bahadurs time!

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

But how can there be different ways of following Sikhism? If there are 10 diffferent Jathas, how can there be 10 different ways of following Sikhi? The reason we are not united is because how can we be if we are not all on the same page so to speak, about how to follow Sikhi?

I do hope that we all understand that Guruji gave us the Akal Thakt as the final word on Sikh issues. As such, although there may be different rehats etc, the one that MUST BE FOLLOWED is the Akal Thakt one. (ie: the one way of following SIkhism at the MINIMUM).

I'm not saying its a bad idea to have more specific rehats such as seen in most jathas, but to talk about unity, the akal thakt one should be considered the unifying rehat.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[tavleen]

what's going on here....

why don't we just first try to be Sikhs..instead of labeling ourselves (or others)...if a certain jatha's purpose is to promote Sikhi, then that makes its follower a Sikh. Why does the title of AKJ/taksali/whatever have to come before the simple and straightforward one of Sikh?? If we could just introspect and improve ourselves first, we would never have such divisions. You know what...i don't know how many times i've said negative things about "uncles" and "aunties" and how they've kinda distorted Sikhi (bringin in the culture, rituals, blah blah blah) but we, the youth and future of Sikhi, are kinda doing the same...but with this topic.

Sikhi is too awesome to limit (or label) it to a certain group or its followers...

"Reform comes from within." Let's try to change ourselves first....and once we've done that, once we've overpowerd the mind, we wont even need a certain group to be a follower of; just the Khalsa crew! :e:

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh