Mixed Marriages

[AK-47]

lol how about YOU?

lol only joking

[Prem]

ermmm kinda yeh i do actually! like i said take a walk through those areas, maybe speak to a few of the locals and then come back with your report

I'm from Handsworth and have family in Aston. Don't make assumptions about people, because when you do, invariably you get egg on your face when your assumptions about them are incorrect.

and before you start firing questions, u didnt answer mine about what u as an individual would do, if lads (muslims, blacks, whites, hindus, christians, sikhs etc) started feeling up ur sister in front of u and tried to slap u so ur dastaar came off or tried to force u to touch their feet daily?

You seem obsessed with the sexual abuse of peoples sisters.

I find your mentioning my sister as an example to be repulsive even in the abstract.

But I'll drop that for a second because the obscenity of your question shows how hateful you are.

Now, people are promoting hatred and violence of other religions and people in the name of this issue of Islamic evangelism, mixing many different issues into one rabble rousing campaign of rage.

This is a fact. That seems to irk you. Why? It is plain and obvious that there is an unfocussed generalised campaign of hate under way in Birmingham that is not conducive to solving the problems Sikhs face, in a city in which false allegations of rape have led to race riots in the last 18 months between Blacks and Pakistanis in which one man was murdered and many many innocent people were victims of indiscriminate violence.

Now, do you really think this kind of campaign of hate is a sensible way to proceed?

[proactive]

Ak-47 Good response to some heavy duty paranoia from some members. Harjinder Singh makes good points but he's way off the mark here when he says that Sikhs only get worked up when a Muslim has an Anand Karaj. Anand karaj should be between a couple who believe in the teachings of the Gurus, no Hindu, Muslims, Christian or Buddhist should be married through Anand Karaj as they have not accepted the Gurus. Just because the Panth has been lax in the last few years does not mean that we should accept non-Sikhs marrying through Anand Karaj.

[proactive]

I am amazed when people bandy words around without even a moment's reflection as to whether they are appropriate. Some text messages have been going around which report the conversion of an Amritdhari girl. Suddenly these become HATE messages. Some people attack some Muslim family who then seem to want to flee the country and Sikhs are called HATE MOBS! These same posters would when faced with a 9/11 or 7/7 or a beheading video would go out of their way to explain how the terrorists don't represent Muslims and seeing some of the posters here would probably blame Bush or the CIA for the terror attacks and absolve the Muslims of the attack yet when faced with an report about an attack on a house by people unknown they jump to the conclusion that they were Sikhs and words like fanatics and fundamentalists and even Nazis start doing the rounds!! Get a grip people.

[Prem]

I am amazed when people bandy words around without even a moment's reflection as to whether they are appropriate. Some text messages have been going around which report the conversion of an Amritdhari girl. Suddenly these become HATE messages.

Yes --- because they promoted HATE against an entire religion and group of people --- even though the circumstances around this 'conversion' are murky to say the least.

Some people attack some Muslim family who then seem to want to flee the country and Sikhs are called HATE MOBS!

No -- Sikhs are not called hate mobs, the individual thugs who go around promoting hate and thuggery are called that. Can you tell the difference?

These same posters would when faced with a 9/11 or 7/7 or a beheading video would go out of their way to explain how the terrorists don't represent Muslims and seeing some of the posters here would probably blame Bush or the CIA for the terror attacks and absolve the Muslims off the attack yet when faced with an report about an attack on a house by people unknown they jump to the conclusion that they were Sikhs and words like fanatics and fundamentalists and even Nazis!! Get a grip people.

Yes --- get a grip indeed proactive. What a load of nonsense. I'm certainly not a person who explain terrorists and beheading videos --- but you seem very muddled about the phenomenon.

[proactive]

Prem,

What if I told a Sikh who had a Muslim friend that according to Islam a Muslim should only be friends with a non-Muslims purely to try and convert him/her to Islam. Does my making that person aware of this make me a Hatemonger? Am I spreading hate against Muslims? Does the truth or otherwise of what I say make any difference to whether what I say is hateful or not?

[ParwinderSingh]

This alleged 'convertee' is actually being protected by police from Sikhs who carry axes and cans of petrol with them.

yup its true you know ... everyone in birmingham walks around with cans of petrol and axes ... its the latest trend man! you cant be seen without it!

fool

are you still waiting (and hoping by the sound sof it) for some big epic mahabharat?

well relax yourself, this stuff been going on for years, people been fighting and kicking the cr** out of each other for years. just becuase it has reached the forum this month, or because you have just found out about it, doesn't mean it is gettin any worse then it has been for the last 10-15 years. if anything, things are much calmer now then they used to be. and yes in the past many sikh boys did get beaten for being sikh, i.e. turbans knocked off, sisters abused in front of them, the gurus insulted in front of them etc etc. in some areas the whole sikh youth was and in some areas is terrorised by these so called muslims. if you aint seen this, then maybe your the lucky one, but for many people this is the reality they live with.

the article is nothing new. what does he say that is so fantastic? he says that if people wish to convert that they should be allowed to. yes we all agree and have done in the past.

He seems to suggest that the marriage in a gurdwara should be between 2 sikhs. yes most of us agree and have done in the past.

he says people got angry over a so called muslim marryin a sikh but dont seem to mind hindus marrying in gurdwara's. sorry but most people do mind and want to see a stop to both.

he says there is no such thing as forced/groomed conversions... well depends on where your from and how your brought up. bullying and intimidation and the prospect of this hell ending if you convert and join the bullys can be tempting. and this is NOT conversin via choice but conversion by force (force does not neccesarily mean a sword to the neck as it was done 200 years ago .. times move on and so do tactics).

in so many words he says that ONLY sikhs should marry sikhs in gurdwaras, again whats so refreshing about that?

he says we shouldnt promte hatred ... yeh we know that so whats so refreshing about that?

oooo it wouldnt be anything to do with the fact that its a 'white' sikh is it??

ask people who live in areas affected by this how life is? when the so called 'muslims' touch up the sikh girls in front of the boys and say 'what are you going to do about it'? when the girls look for help but the boys are scared to help, what do you do then? prem and co, these are real life scenarios that people deal with daily. let me ask you wonderful sikhs, what do you do then? do you fight and risk pathing the streets of birmingham with blood? do you risk a back lash?? or do you carry on with ur head down and the 'muslims' throw stuff at ur turban and slap it till it comes off?

i gave a previous example which nobody bothered commenting on ... a boy was being bullied by muslims at his college who would make him touch their feet. this boy had a dastar etc. he would be made to give them money and then touch their feet in front of everyone. tell me what do you do? do you think they were laughing at him ... nope, they were saying look at these pathetic (i use that word rather then the words they used) we OWN THEM, we RUN them. etc etc. from what i understand this problem was dealt with. now Prem and co, tell me what would you do? perhaps hug them and maybe even pass them ur sister for them to enjoy?

hatred is one thing, relalising and facing upto the truth is another thing. it may be a fine line for some people, but for others its a reality they cannot escape. If you have any doubt visit certain areas of east london, manchester, bradford, birmingham and luton and find out for yourselves. i would love to see the 'man in blue' having dialouge with some of these 'muslims' . see how long he would last before they were dragging him across the street.

face facts, life aint pretty.

alot of the touching up etc, that happens is in night clubs, bars etc, when everyones gettin drunk and dancing to noise. These girls are not sikhs, and that is no where to be if you are one. If you want to be a sikh, then the guru will protect your honour and dignity. Most of us forget what khalsa is about, the Bibiyan who are Gursikhs dont let this happen to them, they know and underdstand the power of the guru.. And if this happens infront of a man, then he cannot be a sikh if he does not stop it and uphold the priciples of Guru Gobind Singh, and i urge these people to tell police, and schools and colleges, the more its recognised as a problem the more we as a public can be aware, if its taken into our own hands then all that can be seen its a few fanatics on each side fighting.

alot of people dont have faith and the spiritual guidance, and should seek this, and know that we live in akaal purakhs hukam which is perfection at its most. Until we dont live like sikh we will see these attacks and see no option, but when you have a gursikhi jeevan you see the beauty of creation and these problems are nothing but morakhs running around getting tangled up in worly problems. We hve a father who is the King of Kings, lets get to know him a bit and see the wonders inlife, lets not think that the power of khalsa was only to be seen in sakhis, in Gurus time, or only in 1984, there are chardikala sikhs living in this world now in the midst of everything, the grace of god has no limits, let tap into it.....

Your talking sense, but theres idiots on both sides to blame, who instigigate and inflame the situations, but i think you should practice your sikhi, and do path more often, then at least the guru will guide you before you throw petrol on someone in the midst of your rage........................., the man in blue is also right in what he says too, not becos of his colour, but cos its in the paper and i cant hear anyone else talking about it

[guptveer1469]

i'm so sick of this issue

am i the only one??

[Bored]

AK-47

speaks the truth

i thik u gotta experience it to know it

i kno ppl that try to judge me when they have no idea wat i've bin through in my life.....walk a mans shoes b4 judgin em (actually don't judge at all)

but these singhs need to defend 4 themselves

how weak r they man

i kno not everyones a tuff guy but u must have atleast one in the UK

man the UK is messed up

muslims controling sikhs ...wats up with that

im not sayin sikhs shud be controling ...but atleast have control over urselves.!

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

i'm so sick of this issue

am i the only one??

kind of.

what do you get when you have the British, Sikhs, Hindus, and Muslims in the same room?

Trouble :umm:

just a little joke so don't get all crazy.