Metha Tehk To The Folllowing

[gurmeetjodhey]

PYAAR = We all do have pyaar with our physical parents also

Do we do matha take to their shoes, cloths, chair they use, ornament or accessories they use ??? NO

We just take utmost care, clean them, respect them as to not go in wrong or dirty hands

We all do have pyaar with our physical brother/s sister/s

We do have pyaar with our children

pyaar with our life partner

but the pyaar for my mitr pyaara Sachche Paatshah Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and for other things related to Guru Sahiban and even with shastr are totally different.

i feel myself fully filled with utmost pyaar, affection towards the "NISHANI" of my Mitr Pyaara, "JAGAH" related to my Mitr Pyaara, "SHASTR" not only used by Guru Sahiban but even a simple Shastr on my sight soasmuch that my pyaar some times comes out of my eyes and wants to wash those belongs to my Mitr pyara with it. But even at this stage, in my conscious mind form i do not prefer to Matha take to those belongs.

But as "Akirtghan" referred (NANKANA SAHEB) when one go "Unconscious" in utmost pyaar of my Mitr Pyaara the Head which belongs to Sachche Paatshah Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji go down automatically

"Guru Granth ji Manyo Pragat Guran Ki Deh ||

Jo Prabh Ko Milbo Chahe Khoj Shabd Mein Lae ||"

THE FINAL VERDICT

no offence aimed, peace

[Bundha]

<<<< PYAAR = We all do have pyaar with our physical parents also

Do we do matha take to their shoes, cloths, chair they use, ornament or accessories they use ??? NO

We just take utmost care, clean them, respect them as to not go in wrong or dirty hands >>>>

I think the difference between our parents and Guru Ji is immense. Our parents are just our biological/karam parents, they do many things wrong, some drink alcohol others lie, cheat, Guru Ji is puran – a vast difference. Whatever Guru touches becomes pavitar, so mutha taking Guru Ji’s shoes is a great honour and only those who are blessed even get a chance to do this.

Let us explore what the issue is here. A lot of people are afraid that by metha taking shoes then this is leading you down the road of idol worship. This is not the case, it depends upon where your starting point is. If you see the shoes as just shoes then there is no need for you to methatake. If you see the shoes as a link to Guru Ji, the same Guru that you long to see day and night then the shoes have a great place in your heart, to methatake the shoes then is not a matter of metha taking the physical shoes you are connecting with your Guru as you place your forehead on the floor, you are remembering your Guru, and surely that cannot be a bad thing.

<< We all do have pyaar with our physical brother/s sister/s We do have pyaar with our children pyaar with our life partner >>

But is not the same pyar as that of your Guru/father.

<<< but the pyaar for my mitr pyaara Sachche Paatshah Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and for other things related to Guru Sahiban and even with shastr are totally different. >>>>

I think most people think that by placing your head anywhere other then Guru GranthSahib Ji is somehow being a traitor. The main thing here is that the Guru we insist that we should place our head infront of is the same Guru we do not follow. We say we do, but not really, we take the bits that go with our way of thinking , the other parts we re-interpret or ignore totally.

<<< i feel myself fully filled with utmost pyaar, affection towards the "NISHANI" of my Mitr Pyaara, "JAGAH" related to my Mitr Pyaara, "SHASTR" not only used by Guru Sahiban but even a simple Shastr on my sight soasmuch that my pyaar some times comes out of my eyes and wants to wash those belongs to my Mitr pyara with it. But even at this stage, in my conscious mind form i do not prefer to Matha take to those belongs. >>>

Just do a little test. Take a picture of your wife/husband or your child, or if you are not at that stage yet take a picture of your mother, now take a knife and repeatedly stab the picture in the face !

Most people will not do this, those that do will still feel quite bad inside. Why? It is only a picture – ink and paper.

Yet there is a link between us and those depicted in the picture. Now expand that a hundred fold when talking about Guru Ji. We should have that amount of piyaar for our Guru and if there is anything belonging to them your head will automatically fall infront of it.

[guru'sfateh]

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh,

Im so sick of the daily bickering that goes on this forum. We dont have a long list of do's and dont's in sikhi unlike other dharams. We follow the love in our heart and listen to our conscience. Our conscience speaks to us when we feel we have done something which has gona against guru's hukum. Everyone will have different opinions and different understandings of whats right and wrong depending where they are in their path. Sometimes you can see something black and white when really its so colourful, not everything is as simple as it seems. Instead of be-littling other people's opinions how about we share our thoughts and agree to disagree. Have your own discipline installed in yourself instead of someone elses, we need to take into account that alot of people on this forum are walking early or way ahead on the path and so views on select things will be varied, also take into account this is the internet and not everyone will be walking the same path at all. Can we please remember who we are trying to represent before we start arguing?

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki fateh.

[Guest Dancing Warrior]

I don’t recommend bowing down; it may spill the poison that so many of us have in our hearts.

[britiah sikh lad]

The folowing are idols; pictures, foot prints, shoes,stones"jegair"

The above a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance, as a phantom

a figment of the mind; fantasy.a false conception or notion; fallacy (defeinitions from the dctonary which also denote the word idol and the above)

If that dont convince then this should.

The stone neither speaks nor gives anything. Therefore its service is fruitless and its worship is of no avail." (Bhagat Kabir, Bhairo)

The stone he calls his god, in the end, drowns him with itself... Know that a boat of stone carries one not across" (Guru Arjan Dev, Suhi)

One wonders about these foot prints of Guru Nanak Dev jee indeed if they are his, either way i dont care, . Guru Nanaks mission was love of god and truth and many other. Why would he leave foot prints in places for people to worship ?, he had no time for leaveing foot prints and shoes.

I think someone else has planted them there so we stay in idol belives and go against our Guru's philosphy, and of course there money to be made out of it.

[proactive]

Personally I wouldn't bow to anything apart from Guru Granth Sahib. To the person who wrote that we already bow to Shastars because they are placed in front of Guru Granth Sahib, does that mean we are also bowing to the person who is doing the parkash of Guru Granth Sahib or even the person doing the chaur sewa? How about the flowers that get placed there as well are we bowing to them as well? One of the things that some Sikhs fail to understand is that the Gurus themselves were unconcerned about getting their daily actions recorded, the places they visited being consecrated or even their pictures being painted. Look at Bhai Gurdas's vaar 1, he gives only the barest of detals about the lives of the three Gurus who he was a contemporary to as well as Guru Nanak. If places associated with the Gurus were important then wouldn't the Gurus have made sure that the names and places that they stayed at were recorded minutely? The only conclusion one can draw from this is that places and things like footprints, handprints, cholas and shastars an the like are unimportant, what is important is the BANI and it is to Gurbani that we bow and nothing else.

[orono]

So Proactive Sahib are you against Muth tekking Shaster? Even though earlier in this thread, someone has quoted Dasam Pita Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, who says "Yahe Hamare Peer"?

[proactive]

So if something is described as PEER automatically we need to bow down to it? Do Sikhs bow to Peers?

[KKV]

Shaster = Peer ..ie: Guru (said by Guru Gobind Singh Ji - Yehai Hamaare Peer) So treat them like one..

Everything else listed above such as sandals etc shouldnt be bowed to..

btw jst a point: UNLESS you see the idol/ornament as a representation of God how cna it be called idol worship/

yeah but isn't that like doing Namaskaar? not literally bowing ( )..don't stress please - just askin...?

[smartsingh24]

Ok, super quick now, not putdowns just questions.

The folowing are idols; pictures, foot prints, shoes,stones"jegair"

The above a mere image or semblance of something, visible but without substance, as a phantom

a figment of the mind; fantasy.a false conception or notion; fallacy (defeinitions from the dctonary which also denote the word idol and the above)

If that dont convince then this should.

The stone neither speaks nor gives anything. Therefore its service is fruitless and its worship is of no avail." (Bhagat Kabir, Bhairo)

The stone he calls his god, in the end, drowns him with itself... Know that a boat of stone carries one not across" (Guru Arjan Dev, Suhi)

One wonders about these foot prints of Guru Nanak Dev jee indeed if they are his, either way i dont care, . Guru Nanaks mission was love of god and truth and many other. Why would he leave foot prints in places for people to worship ?, he had no time for leaveing foot prints and shoes.

I think someone else has planted them there so we stay in idol belives and go against our Guru's philosphy, and of course there money to be made out of it.

Ok, maybe not a question so much as a statement here. Are you seriously questioning the validity of footsteps that Guru Nanak Dev Ji left behind? There have been skeptics that have tried to prove people wrong by chiseling past the foot prints, and they've been proven wrong. Another thing is that it's not like it took Guru Ji much time to make footprints, he just did. If you really didn't care, then why say that you question them? Another thing, is that how is it going against Guru Ji's philosophy? Monuments like these do nothing but enhance the devotion to Gurus. Could you honestly take a look at this, and other monuments, and believe that our Gurus were anything less than extraordinary? To sum up, I doubt any one could truly comprehend what our Gurus were thinking, because physically, mentally, and spiritually they were on another level. They'd seen all time, and their reasons for leaving behind these monuments might not reveal themselves for another millenia. Who knows? Point is, you are in a very low minority in the sikh populace by quetioning these monuments.

Personally I wouldn't bow to anything apart from Guru Granth Sahib. To the person who wrote that we already bow to Shastars because they are placed in front of Guru Granth Sahib, does that mean we are also bowing to the person who is doing the parkash of Guru Granth Sahib or even the person doing the chaur sewa? How about the flowers that get placed there as well are we bowing to them as well? One of the things that some Sikhs fail to understand is that the Gurus themselves were unconcerned about getting their daily actions recorded, the places they visited being consecrated or even their pictures being painted. Look at Bhai Gurdas's vaar 1, he gives only the barest of detals about the lives of the three Gurus who he was a contemporary to as well as Guru Nanak. If places associated with the Gurus were important then wouldn't the Gurus have made sure that the names and places that they stayed at were recorded minutely? The only conclusion one can draw from this is that places and things like footprints, handprints, cholas and shastars an the like are unimportant, what is important is the BANI and it is to Gurbani that we bow and nothing else.

Interesting questions, but I still think you're trying to read too much into what other people are thinking or were trying to get across. For instance, Bhai Gurdas ji could have given lots of details, even written a novel. But he's modeled the form of his writing on the gurbani that Guru Arjan Dev Ji told him to write in. In other words, he kept his writing in a poetic form much like his Gurus did. He didn't write as much, probably becaue he didn't have five lifetimes to write as much, but again this is speculation and we could go back and forth all day.

And I agree that Bani is important, and we really should matha tek to nothing else, but a bow is nothing. It's a bob of the head. Heck, a bow is given to anyone that's older than you when you say fateh. But then we'd have to get into different forms of bowing and respect, really it's just getting too drawn out. We could sit here all day and make a list of what you should do and what you shouldn't do, but I'd bet not alot of people would pay attention.