Kaam And Marriage

[Guest Narinder Singh]

How is having sex with your wife wrong??

the more i grow i'm beginning to realize, that sex for a sikh should be for procreation. if its just for pleasure then the chor's are taking over.

same with other chor's. krodh only in battle, in the form of bir rass. lobh only enuf to feed your family. moh only enough to live a gristi life. hankaar only enuf to have self respect.

So a sikh is only supposed to have sex with their spouse if they want to reproduce, otherwise its wrong?

Sex is also healthy for ones mental state of being.

Fateh.

[Guest Guest]

Even though there are countless references to Kaam in Gurbani i have selected a few.

thaj kaam kaaminee mohu thajai thaa a(n)jan maahi nira(n)jan paavai ||

Renounce sexual desire and promiscuity, and give up emotional attachment. Only then shall you obtain the Immaculate Lord amidst the darkness of the world.

Guru Raam Daas Ji Raag Maajh 141

ahinis kaam viaapiaa vanajaariaa mithraa a(n)dhhulae naam n chith ||

Day and night, you are engrossed in sexual desire, O my merchant friend, and your consciousness is blind to the Naam.

Guru Nanak Dev Ji Siree Raag 75

ounamath kaam mehaa bikh bhoolai paap pu(n)n n pashhaaniaa ||

Drunk with sexual desire and other great sins, you go astray, and do not distinguish between vice and virtue.

Bhagat Beni Ji Siree Raag 93

I have heard some people say you need a balance, but Gurbani is divine and at the level of soul meeting with God. At that level there is no Kaam,Krodh, Lobh, Moh and Ahankaar.

[B4ND4]

So a sikh is only supposed to have sex with their spouse if they want to reproduce, otherwise its wrong?

Sex is also healthy for ones mental state of being.

Fateh.

Narinder veer, its not about sex being right or wrong. Its just that a person reaches a certain stage where they don't need sex to keep their mental state intact. These things are beyond explanation and can be realized once we reach that stage.

[Guest Guest]

Narinder veer, its not about sex being right or wrong. Its just that a person reaches a certain stage where they don't need sex to keep their mental state intact. These things are beyond explaination and can be realized once we reach that stage.

Good reply :wub: at that stage there is no Kaam in the least. And some people have like only 2 or 3 kids whilst some 12 kids, depending on their mental state.

[Guest Akirtghan]

my understanding is that kaam is sexual desire/lust for some1 other than your wife.

so then sexual desire for your own wife is ok? if you have sexual desire for your wife, you will have it for another's wife

yes, i think that sexual desire for your own wife is ok. We are supposed to live a family life. Sex outside of marriage is kurehit. There is no harm with having a physical relationship with your wife in sikhi. It is not a sin which requires forgiveness from panj pyare. If there was no sexual desire between man and woman, then how would human life continue? If sexual desire for your wife is wrong, then why not just avoid marriage all together?

what is your explanation for why we get married? what is the reason why a man and woman want to marry someone?

lying, stealing, etc... are also not kurehits, but that doesn't mean we can do em. i don't want to aruge here. i have my opinion, you have yours. lets accept that :wub:

the real reason for marraige is to have soeone who you can help and get help from in sikhi.

bani is clear, desire of absolutly any kind is wrong. we are told by guru sahib to try and reach a stage of sehaj, where all wants and needs disappear.

guru rakha :e:

[lowest of the low singhni]

*big moment*

For once I agree with Akirtghan.

[chatanga]

again the real understanding here should be of balance. Desire for one's partner is fine as long as it does not get in the way of your jeevani. if you do your nitnem , sewa , simran wand shakna etc without fail, it doesnt matter whether you go to your partner 10 times a day, but if you fail to does the nitnem etc and go to your partner then it's wrong.

the balance has to be there so that it doesnt take over your life. And again this is an individual thing as well.

depending on your lifestyle you may do this more than others and less than than some. we may express horror at a couple who do it every day or many times a day, but if they dont neglect their sikhi to do it then we shouldnt be bothered.

and im getting the impression that we are focusing more from a male perspective. any females have any thoughts they wanna share?

[JustME]

Narinder veer, its not about sex being right or wrong. Its just that a person reaches a certain stage where they don't need sex to keep their mental state intact. These things are beyond explanation and can be realized once we reach that stage.

its kinda like ur relationship evolves where you dont feel the need to have sex, ur relationship evolves into summat else where phyical relations are not the driving force in ur relationship.....or u dont feel the urge to....................the feeling or merging with bani and waheguru is a much better feeling :wub:

[Bored]

my understanding is that kaam is sexual desire/lust for some1 other than your wife.

so then sexual desire for your own wife is ok? if you have sexual desire for your wife, you will have it for another's wife

yes, i think that sexual desire for your own wife is ok. We are supposed to live a family life. Sex outside of marriage is kurehit. There is no harm with having a physical relationship with your wife in sikhi. It is not a sin which requires forgiveness from panj pyare. If there was no sexual desire between man and woman, then how would human life continue? If sexual desire for your wife is wrong, then why not just avoid marriage all together?

what is your explanation for why we get married? what is the reason why a man and woman want to marry someone?

lying, stealing, etc... are also not kurehits, but that doesn't mean we can do em. i don't want to aruge here. i have my opinion, you have yours. lets accept that :wub:

the real reason for marraige is to have soeone who you can help and get help from in sikhi.

bani is clear, desire of absolutly any kind is wrong. we are told by guru sahib to try and reach a stage of sehaj, where all wants and needs disappear.

guru rakha :e:

that makes sense...

to me, this justifies why it shud onli b done 4 procreation

but then procreation needs lust? < this part im not sure of...confusing

me brain hurt now

fateh

[lowest of the low singhni]

lying, stealing, etc... are also not kurehits, but that doesn't mean we can do em. i don't want to aruge here. i have my opinion, you have yours. lets accept that :wub:

the real reason for marraige is to have soeone who you can help and get help from in sikhi.

bani is clear, desire of absolutly any kind is wrong. we are told by guru sahib to try and reach a stage of sehaj, where all wants and needs disappear.

guru rakha :e:

that makes sense...

to me, this justifies why it shud onli b done 4 procreation

but then procreation needs lust? < this part im not sure of...confusing

me brain hurt now

fateh

This part by chatanga might help:

see kaam is used for god and bad things. Good for procreation. Bad if you wanna do it and think about it all the time all the time and forget other aspects ofyour life , spirituality, prayer, sewa etc.

in the same way krodh anger is only good if its directed in a positve way, as Guru Gobind Singh says in Bachiotar Natak, " when the arrow struck , the anger in me rose..." . Bad if you are angry over sumthing and brood on it all day and forget your nitnem.

duz this make sense? the 5 chor are there to be controlled, not killed cos at some time in our life we are going to need and use them in some way or the other.