Confused, again?!

[JSingh]

i have a lot of respect for all religions and their prophets but i take a step back when they try to mess around , especially with sikhs/sikhi!! imagine all those shaheeds who were brutally tortured by these same people in the name of religion. everytime i think of those shaheeds, no matter how much logical or sensible islam may seem to be, all i know is that those shaheeds had something way way way better to give their life for, and that is SIKHI !!!!! the shaheedi of so many singhs and singhnees juz puts 1 question : what did they have that they were ready to give up their life for, and that too in a barbaric way!!!...answer : SIKHI...what did they have that they even had to see their loved ones killed in the most inhuman manner? SIKHI!!!!...and for a few made up arguments that explain scientific stuff or anything that u find appealing, its never never ever worth giving up ur beliefs!!! and definitely NOT if ur belief is SIKHI!!!

wow!!! something to think about... very good thoughts Rockak Singh.

and Bhainji there was something as Rochak mentioned that the great Shaheeds in Sikh History gave their lifes for, but never accepted Islam.

and Bhainji, Guru Ji can anwer all of your question. And you are right that we fight among ourselves on small issues and make a big deal out of nothing. No matter how good or bad Islam is, as yo

u can see from the quotes in the post from Sikhnet Discussion Forum, there is one good thing in Islam and that is Aikta, something that we lack. The only way to get united is to follow the Guru's path and do path and Simran. And as far as women are concerned, Islam doen't give any equality to women. Women are slaves to men in Islam. But our Gurus gave them equal status, but it is a shame on punjabi culture that most Sikhs from Punjab consider women just like muslims do. It is a SHAME.

The Sikhs from western countries who adopted Sikhi take Sikhi more seriously and live according to Gurmat. What happened to us? I think all we have learned is to fight among ourselves, argue, put others down, and being proud of something that we are not even close to, Sikhi. And sehajleen Kaur bhanji, please don't feel bad. Have faith and love for the Guru Ji and your every question will be answered. I think Guru Ji is putting you on a test where you are in a situation when you have to question your identity and find out what it is that makes me a Sikh and why am I a Sikh.

Winning or losing an argument doesn't prove anything bhainji because one side may not have all the facts and other side could take its advantage and win the argument. People who talk too much do not know anythingn about spirituality. Those who are one with God or have put their lives on the right track do not argue with people trying to convince them that their path is the only path to God and their prophet is the seal to the prophets. These people are blind of something that is not true. Their sole purpose is to try every tactict to convice people and then CONVER them. And knowing a little bit about Islam you can find out how behind it is in every aspect conpared to Sikhi.

Jahangir (i think it was him) asked Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji to put verses from Koran in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, but Guru Ji refused. This was one of the reasons of Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji's Shahadat. If Islam was correct or Mohhamad was right Guru Ji wou

ld have certainly put Koran verses in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But Guru Ji prefered Baba Farid Ji's bani over Mohammad's.

Bhainji Sehajleen Kaur Ji, these people are trying different tricks on you. You feel confused and lost because they were trying to trap you in their marromindedness that Islam is the only way. You feel the way you feel right now because you are paying more attention to their ridicules than trying to know more about Sikhi and why, as Rochak Singh said our Shaheeds died as Sikhs, but did not accept Islam. You can find the answer to this question only if you try to spend time studying the teachings of our Gurus and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji and trying to bring these teachings in life and do Naam Simran. The Guru then will be your ang sang and your every question will be answered. At the end, we should stay away from the people who are not good for our spirituality.

Last night, Bhai Sahib Ji in our local gurdwara was doing the keertan of the following shabad:

ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.

One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

har jas suneh na har gun gaavahi.

baatan hee asmaan giraaveh. ||1||

They do not listen to the Lord`s Praises, and they do not sing the Lord`s Glories,

but they try to bring down the sky with their talk. ||1||

aisay logan si-o ki-aa kahee-ai.

jo parabh kee-ay bhagat tay baahaj tin tay sadaa daraanay rahee-ai. ||1|| rahaa-o.

What can anyone say to such people?

You should always be careful around those whom God has excluded from His devotional worship. ||1||Pause||

aap na deh churoo bhar paanee.

tih nindeh jih gangaa aanee. ||2||

They do not offer even a handful of water,

while they slander the one who brought forth the Ganges. ||2||

baithat uthat kutiltaa chaaleh.

aap ga-ay a-uran hoo gha

aleh. ||3||

Sitting down or standing up, their ways are crooked and evil.

They ruin themselves, and then they ruin others. ||3||

chhaad kuchrachaa aan na jaaneh.

barahmaa hoo ko kahi-o na maaneh. ||4||

They know nothing except evil talk.

They would not even obey Brahma`s orders. ||4||

aap ga-ay a-uran hoo khoveh.

aag lagaa-ay mandar mai soveh. ||5||

They themselves are lost, and they mislead others as well.

They set their own temple on fire, and then they fall asleep within it. ||5||

avran hasat aap heh kaaNnay.

tin ka-o daykh kabeer lajaanay. ||6||1||44||

They laugh at others, while they themselves are one-eyed.

Seeing them, Kabeer is embarrassed. ||6||1||44|| [sGGS Ji, 332]

[japmans]

actually, rochak veerji... i hjafta correct you... the Baha'i HOly Scripture is the only religion in the world who's scripture is written by its founder. with us, even our Shri Guru Granth Sahib wasnot written by our "founder", Guru Nanak Dev Ji...techincally speaking, we can argue and say that his jot was and is n each of the remaining 10 gurus... but as far as like.. you know.. the pen it came from, it was Guru Arjan Dev Ji first, and then Guru Gobind Singh Ji, later. Actually, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Bhai Gurdas Ji compile the first Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

anywhoo, point i'm trying to make is that Baha'i is the only reliigon who's holy scripture is written by their sole founder.

don't mean to offend anyone, just sayin my view

[JSingh]

actually, rochak veerji... i hjafta correct you... the Baha'i HOly Scripture is the only religion in the world who's scripture is written by its founder. with us, even our Shri Guru Granth Sahib wasnot written by our "founder", Guru Nanak Dev Ji...techincally speaking, we can argue and say that his jot was and is n each of the remaining 10 gurus... 

japmans bhaji, i feel sorry to say, but i have to correct you. I don't know about Baha'i faith yet, but the thing I know is that what Rochak said was 100% true. i don't mean to offend you. For you information, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji contacted the people who had the bani of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and then added it in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Just to stressed this point, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji copied the bani of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Granth Sahib Ji. Before answering your question about Bhai Gurdas Ji, it would be highly beneficial for you to know who Bhai Gurdas Ji was. I leave it up to you to find out. It was Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji who receited the Bani to Bhai Gurdas Ji. But the bani was of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji in its original form, in Pothis.

but as far as like.. you know.. the pen it came from, it was Guru Arjan Dev Ji first, and then Guru Gobind Singh Ji, later.

No bhaji, it is not true. Please do some research. It did not come from a pen, but from Akal Purukh, as Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji himself said: "jaisi mai aave khasam ki baani, taisra kari gian ve lalo..."

The bani of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji that Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji requested (I don't know the name of the people who had bani of Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji) was in the form of the Pothis. This bani existed many many years before Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji became the Guru. So your above statement is completely wrong and misleading.

Actually, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Bhai Gurdas Ji compile the first Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

This is wrong too, bhaji. It was Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji who complied the Granth Sahib Ji. It is not like someone from the sky many hundreds of years after Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji revealed the bani to Bhai Gurdas Ji and then Bhai Sahib wrote it. No No No! It happened in Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji's time. Guru Ji himself receited the Bani to Bhai Sahib. Please do some research on this. It would be nice you get a tape by Giani Sant Singh Ji Maskeen on this topic. I listened to it a long time ago, but I don't have it now. The Bani came from Akal Purukh, the original bani was collected and put in one place, Sri Granth Sahib Ji by Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji. It was not Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, and then Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, but the sequesnce is: Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, and then Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

And also for your information, when Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji requested the Bir of Sri Granth Sahib Ji, the people who had it refused and told Guru Ji, that if he is the pooran Guru, why doesn't he write himself. Then

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji recited the entire Bani to Bhai Mani Singh Ji next to him, and added Sri Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's bani. You can compare the Bani of the Bir that those people (don't rem. the name) had and refused to give to Guru Ji, and the Bani that Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji receited to Bhai Mani Singh Ji. The Bani of both Birs is EXACTLY the same. What other proof do you need that our 10 Gurus had the same Jot? If Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji are the one and the same. Only the body (kaya) was changed. It is like changing the clothes (the bodies).

anywhoo, point i'm trying to make is that Baha'i is the only reliigon who's holy scripture is written by their sole founder.

Bhaji, this is also wrong. You are missing Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the living Guru of the Sikhs in your statement. And also four your infomation, we have 10 founders, from Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, with 10 different bodies, but inside they were all Guru Nanak Dev Ji. It was Guru Nanak Dev Ji who created Khalsa by giving Amrit in 10th body, with the name of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

don't mean to offend anyone, just sayin my view

You have not offened me bhaji, but it is very very important to clear the misconceptions. If you still have any question, please do post it. There are lots of learned people on this forum that we can learn from.

As you might have already read the following in one of the posts above by Max Arthur Macauli

ffe, British Historian:

"The Sikh religion differs as regard the authenticity of its dogmas from other great theological systems. Many of the great teachers the world has known have not left a line of their own composition, and we only know what they taught through tradition or secondhand information. We know the teachings of the Socrates only through the writings of Plato and Xenophan. Buddha has left no written memorials of his teachings. Kung-fu-zu, known to Europeans as Confucius left no documents in which he detailed the principals of his moral and social system. The Founder of Christianity did not reduce his doctrines to writing and for them we are obliged to trust to the Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The Arabian Prophet did not himself reduce to writing the chapters of the Quran. They were written or compiled by his adherents and followers. But the compositions of the Sikh Gurus are preserved, and we know at first hand what they taught. They employed the vehicle of verse, which is generally unalterable by copyists, and we even become in time familiar with their different styles. No spurious compositions or extraneous dogmas can, therefore, be represented as theirs… As we shal see hereafter, it would be difficult to point to a religion of greater originality or to a more comprehensive ethical system."

if you bhaji or someone else does not like the tone of this post, please point it out and correct me

bhul chuk di khima...

maha papi.

[Deep Singh]

JSingh jee,

may i ask a question.

i have also heard of this. and i believe it is true what you said.

But are there any Pothis still available that have Guru Nanak Sahib's Bani. i mean like these Pothis might also have 2nd and 3rd Guru Sahib jee's Bani. Is there any manuscript, just wondering. great if you have any knowledge about that jee.

[curious_man]

As for jathas, different rehats and the future, dont think about them. Sikhi says that no one is going to go with you at the end so its all about "you and your waheguru".

As for the future how you gonna have any impact on the future if you go mad.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

i live off campus in newfoundland, canada....i m frm india doing engineering here.....

i and my friend live in a gursikh's home.....my friend and veer ji oth r amritdahari...........

i m fed up of the daily quarrels.........now i showed them wht amardeep had written but still no effect on them........

i dont know wht to do..........

my friend has taken amrit from bangla sahib (i guess so) and veer ji from toronto..i have not been to toronto.he says he is babtized from some gurdwara and they respect bhindranwale ideals......

anywys my friend says its mentioned in his rehat to eat jhatka and not halal(i m really <Edited> on writing this sentence).......while veerji says its not mentioned in his rehat.........

well i m veg...........but fr

ustrated by daily qurrels.........i must say there should be only one rehat.........one rehat.......from one gurudwara all over the world............

any comments to this budhu

bhull chuk maaf!!

[Jash]

my friend says its mentioned in his rehat to eat jhatka and not halal(i m really <Edited> on writing this sentence).......while veerji says its not mentioned in his rehat.........

well..i've also heard the same..they say can eat jatka...n seafood...

some who don't eat meat...say that can eat eggs...coz the eggs are not fertilize (factory made)...god knowz what is right n wat is not...

the best is to be a pure vegetarian!!! even healthier!! :ww::

bhul chuk maaf

[JSingh]

Sat Sri Akal Deep Singh Ji. I don't know if those Pothis are still available. But 5th Guru Nanak Dev Ji put the bani of those pothis in Sri Granth Sahib Ji and what Guru Sahib did with those Pothis afterwards only Guru Ji knows. As I said before, Sikhism has 10 founders, and Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the only Scripture, with the exception of Baha's faith as japman ji said if he is right, that is written by the first had of its founders during their life time. It would be a great seva if someone tries to search what happened to those Pothis afterwards. Whether the pothis servived or not, the Bani of those pothis is still with us and will be with Sikhs forever, in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

bhul chuk di khima...

[Deep Singh]

Bhaji J Singh jee,

i searched on Sikh pothis and found this:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2001/20010826/...rum/books.htm#2

http://www.sikhe.com/gsdno/articles/histor...inadigranth.htm

Goindval Pothis are mentioned here. (or called also Bhai Mohan Pothis) there are vairious other names too. Ahiyapur Wali pothi, so on. i believe there was a heated debate about the authority of these Pothis a while back..a book was written by GS Mann that was something wrong ? not sure or was it Pashura Singh..?

maybe these scriptures are still there....that is why scholars can study them and make conclusions...

[bismaadh kaur]

waheguru jee ka khalsa! waheguru jee kee fateh!!

I just wanted to point out something to prove to those non-believers that all the Guru's were the joth of Guru Nanak Dev Jee.

In all the Guru's Bani, you will notice that it ends with "KOH NANAK" or "KAHAI NANAK" with the name NANAK. IF, they were not the same joth, then why would all the Guru's that followed Guru Nanak Dev Jee sign their name as Guru Nanak??

just something to ponder... :T:

sandeep kaur

[V]

I agreee

One thing I don't understand is - I read somewhere thta Bhai Mardana Ji, wrote a shabad in Guru ji..

and ended it with NANAK

Can anyone please enlighten me about this issue :D

Bhull chukk maaaf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!