Gay Marriages

[JSingh]

Sadhsangat Ji, next week I have to meet with someone who is going to write a report for a newspaper and I have to give my views on gay marriges from a Sikh point of view that how the sikh beliefs are tied to this topic. what does sikhism say about gay marriages? Please express your views in the light of Sikhi, not your personal opinions. please respond asap.

Thanks.

[Mkhalsa]

Homosexuality cannot happen in sikhi for a number of reasons.

1) Guru Sahib Created our organs for a reason: to procreate

2) we cannot participate in kaam

3) we cannot have sex with anyone we are not married to

4) anand karaj is specifically for a man and woman according to rehatnamas and history

5) simple as that.

homosexuality is about kaam, kaam is an evil. If one wants to be a sikh, a bhagat, they must control that kaam.

I would also like to add I have no problems with homosexuals. So do not think I am bigoted. I have had a number of gay/lesbian friends throughout school. They just cant be Sikh.

Or christian for that matter since the bible also forbids it. (of course for some reason they overlook it).

[Guest SikhForLife]

search the forum there was a big debate on it

[Japnaam Singh]

JSingh,

Homosexuality is obviously anti-gurmat, but so are a lot of things (which are still legal according to the constitution). I base that opinion on the analysis of the collective judgment of Gursikhs. However, you have to make clear that Sikh scriptures only contain divine inspiration, motivation to reach the ultimate goal of salvation instead of commentary about useless laws and regulations concerning homosexuals.

When you talk to the newspaper you should try to make clear that the Sikhs are not a monolithic people and also that there is a wide variety of opinions on this matter.

I personally believe Same Sex marriages should be "legal" in a supposedly secular country like the United States or Canada simply because I don't think government has any place in telling 2 people what they should do. When you live in a pluralistic/multi-cultural country, religion should not play a factor in determining such an issue. I think same-sex marriages are utter manmat, but does that mean that Sikhs should lobby the gov't to make all all manmat ILLEGAL? No. We're not the Taliban. People should have the freedom to do the manmat they want, their personal judgment will bring them morality, not laws passed by governments.

Anyways, I would also hope that you present the opposite side of the issue as well (Say that some Sikhs also believe it should be illegal for the following reasons...). Present the opposite side just so people know that the Sikhs aren't a group of people that have the same opinion on the topic. That leads to ignorance. Talk about how some Sikhs believe it is neccesary to maintain morality in laws because morality is neccesary for hu

man judgment. Say that some Sikhs believe that most criminal laws are based on our morals and values and that doesn't neccesarily make them wrong. Also say that some Sikhs believe in family values and the current family structure. Say that they believe that by having 2 dads or 2 moms, children are hurt in that they don't receive the full benefit of parenting (i.e. qualities from both gendered parents).

Anyways, make sure you don't make Sikhi seem as if Sikhs only have one opinion on the issue. Sikhs are just as divided as any other group. So present both arguments.

Good luck with the interview.

Japnaam Singh

Vaaheguroo jee kaa Khaalsaa Vaaheguroo jee kee Fateh!

[Khalsa4ever]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

I'm kinda on the edge of this issue. While I agree that the government has really no buisness regulating if two guys wanna be together, I don't think Sikhi condones that kind of thing at all.

OK, now I'm confused now too... maybe there is a reason that ours is the only religion whose holy book does not even mention homosexuality? (ie: ignore the issue?) :T:

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Jassika]

man have u all noticed how queer the world is getting as it loses religion more and more? theres news like this everyday lately.

Rosie weds longtime girlfriend in San Francisco

^Rosie O'Donnell and Kelli Carpenter outside San Francisco city hall immediately after getting married

In a show of defiance against U.S. President George W. Bush's staunch opposition to same-sex marriage, comedian Rosie O'Donnell flew across the United States on Thursday to marry her longtime girlfriend.

After tying the knot in San Francisco, California, O'Donnell told a cheering throng that she was there to celebrate her lover for her "brand new wife," former dancer and Nickelodeon marketing director Kelli Carpenter.

But she added, the couple was also inspired by "vile" comments on same-sex marriage U.S. President George W. Bush made earlier this week.

"We were both inspired to come here after the sitting president said the vile and vicious and hateful comments he did on Tuesday," O'Donnell told the crowd at San Francisco's City Hall, explaining why she and Carpenter decided to make the whirlwind trip from New York.

Since Feb. 12 -- when San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newscombe announced his city would contravene state marriage laws and issue licences to same-sex couples -- more than 3,300 new marriages have been registered in the city.

<

br>O'Donnell announced her wedding plans in a TV interview earlier Thursday, explaining Bush's call for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage was a major factor.

"I think the actions of the president are, in my opinion, the most vile and hateful words ever spoken by a sitting president," O'Donnell told ABC's Good Morning America. "I am stunned and I'm horrified.

"I find this proposed amendment very, very, very, very shocking. And immoral. And, you know, if civil disobedience is the way to go about change, then I think a lot of people will be going to San Francisco. And I hope they put more people on the steps to marry as many people as show up. And I hope everyone shows up."

After their brief ceremony on the steps of city hall, in front of a crowd of cheering supporters, O'Donnell told reporters why the pair was rushing back to New York right after.

"Tomorrow is parent day at our kids' school.

"Some people ask us where we're going on our honeymoon," she quipped. "With four kids under the age of eight, there will be no honeymoon."

O'Donnell reportedly decided to get hitched during the recent trial over her now-defunct Rosie magazine. The fact she was denied her application for spousal privilege in that case has made her a staunch advocate of legal same-sex marriage, the comedian has said.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...b=Entertainment

[Deep Singh]

i agree with what Japnaam Singh jee wrote.

homosexuality should be allowed as the state cannot buz into folks personal views...although it is manmat. there should be freedom, as also Waheguru has given us freedom to think/do the way we do...but also understand what Gurmat is and so on.

offcourse there is no issue about homosexuality being ok in Sikhi. as it is all kaam.

and Khalsa4ever: i believe that Gurbani does not comment each and every action that people do...however Gurbani does tell us a lot about intentions...as soem of our actions can be traced back to kaam, krodh, lob, moh, hankar. but i remember somebody telling that in Dasam Granth homosexuality is mentioned (??).

[DhadiMania]

u fcant say if its rite or wrong n sayin gurmat sez no 2 this. did the gurus say nytin bout this?

personally m against it, but if theres goonna b a debate here on this, show me quotes

[Guest mehtab]

nothing against gays/lesbians or homosexuality, but the kind of "activitiy" homosexuals engage in is NOT natural...and Sikhi is against anything done against nature...which is why the concept of keeping uncut hair and beard...

[Deep Singh]

i don't know if this has anything to do with the topic, but did you guys know that homosexuality (often bisexuality) existed also in ancient cultures, like amongst highclass chinese men, greeks and also in India. so it is certainly not a new phenomena...however it is probably now that gay people want to marry...back in old days people accepted the norms of the land and continued this kind of stuff in privacy. no they want to do it openly. in a way this ends the hypocracy, but still this is because of lust. now we should not attack homosexuals, but lust is equally bad if it is between a man and a women.