Why does Khalistan matter anways?

[OneSikhi]

What difference does it make if we Sikhs get our own Khalistan or don't? How does it affect our service to the Lord? How does it change who we are as individuals and what we do to make this world a better place? How will our own national border serve to make us better human beings?

Guru Nanak Dev Ji traversed the entire borderless subcontinent; his message was simple: We are all brothers and sisters, sons and daughters of the Almighty. The entire essence of Sikhism begins and ends with that notion. Each Guru who gave their life was upholding only this underlying principle. The concept of Khalistan, in my opinion, serves to undermine this principle of brotherhood and devotion. The land of Khalistan will never come into being without terrible losses of innocent life, and the infringement of the rights of many who live in Punjab: Hindu, Sikh, and Muslim. How are we treating our neighbors like brothers and sisters if we are potentially forcing a selfish act on them? Or even worse: if we let them die as a result of the struggle? Furthermore, what service are we doing to the Almighty? Wouldn't the Almighty have blessed us with Khalistan if He saw fit, to begin with? In my opinion, Khalistan is a very materialistic movement; the concept of Waheguru seems to take second priority. I’ll explain a thorough argument against ‘Khalistan’ as many see it in a moment.

Punjab was Punjab well before the Sikhs. What right do we have to claim it as ours? Is it because our holiest shrine is situated there? Is it because our heritage is there? Is it because our families live there? The truth is, we SHARE Punjab with many other people of different backgrounds, religio

ns and beliefs. It is just as much their Punjab as it is ours.

India (and that includes Punjab) is plagued with poverty, disease, corruption, and violence. What has Khalistan done to step up against these injustices? Since when and WHY has the national border become such a rampant priority?

On a different level, on the principle of Khalistan being a land of unified Gurudwara and State I will present this as one of my main arguments.

I proceed from the assumption that this merging of elements, that is to say the essences of the Panth and the State, taken individually will of course be endless, in spite of the fact that Khalistan cannot be achieved and that it will never be possible to bring it to any normal or in any way harmonious condition, as there is a lie at the very foundation of the matter. A compromise between the Gurudwaras and the State to the procurement of Khalistan is to my mind impossible by its very nature. Especially to the effect of criminal justice. The person of spiritual authority maintains that our Gurudwara has a presence and definite place in an independent state, Khalistan. I retort to that person, that, on the contrary, the Gurudwara must contain within it the whole of Khalistan and not simply occupy a mere corner of it. And that if this is for some reason impossible at present then by the very essence of things it must be set as the principal and direct goal of the entire further development of a Khalsa society.

Some of you may be calling this course of argument, “The purest SIkh Ultramontansim.” Allow me to continue.

The spiritual authority will maintain the following ‘basic and essential’ requirements. ‘No social body can or should appropriate to itself the power to order the civil and political rights of its members.’ The second is that ‘Criminal and civic-legal authority should not be invested in the Gurudwara and is incompatible with its status both as a divine institution and as an alliance of human beings for religious ends.’ Finally, th

e third is that, ‘Khalistan is a Kingdom not of this world….”

Many of you will surmise, “If Khalistan is not of this world, then it follows that it cannot have its being upon Earth,” which many of you will renounce entirely. “Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the Great Gurus that followed Him were put on this earth for the express purpose of spreading the faith and installing Gurudwaras upon it. The Sikh Kingdom of the Panth is of course, not of this world, but in heaven; it cannot however, be entered except through the Gurudwara which has been founded on earth.” And so worldly puns of my sort, many of you will argue, are impermissible and unworthy. For the Gurudwara is indeed a kingdom and is appointed to rule and in its due course must indubitably manifest itself as a kingdom over the entire world – as was given to us…”

But please allow me to continue.

All I am trying to say is that in the ancient days, the days of the first episodes of our young religion, Sikhism upon earth manifested itself only as a Gurudwara, and was only a Gurudwara. But when the pagan Punjabi state conceived the desire to become entirely Sikhi, it could not happen otherwise than that, having done so, it merely included the Gurudwaras within itself, but continued to remain a pagan state in very many of its practices. If one views the matter objectively, one can see that this was bound to occur. There were in Punjab, and still are, however, wisdom, as for example even the very goals and fundamental principles of the State of Punjab itself. Upon entering into the Punjab, the Gurudwaras could not of course surrender any of their own fundamental principles, hewn from the same rock on which they stood, and could not but pursue the very goals that once had been firmly set and prescribed for it by Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, including the goal of converting the entire world, and thereby the whole of the state of Punjab and the Gurudwaras into Khalistan. Thus, in the interests of the future, that is to say, it is not the Gurudwaras that must

seek a fixed place within the state of Punjab like any other social body, or alliance of human beings for religious ends, as my spiritual authority might contend. On the contrary, every earthly state will have to be obliged to convert itself fully into a Gurudwara and become nothing other than a Gurudwara having now renounced all goals that are not concomitant with its Gurudwara status. But all this will in no way degrade it, take away its honor or its glory as a mighty state, or the glory of its rulers, but will only turn it aside from a false, still pagan mistaken path on to the true and genuine one that alone will lead it to the goals of eternity. Thus it would be more correct if, in investigating and setting forth those principles of the State of Punjab, they be viewed initially as a temporary compromise, still necessary in our sinful and imperfect times.

As soon as the creator of those principles has made some of them written in stone and immovable and impassable, primordial and eternal, he flies straight in the face of the Gurudwara and its sacred primordial and immovable destiny.

The Gurudwara must as a result, some have pointed out, must evolve into the State of Punjab. As from a lower species to a higher one, in order subsequently to vanish in it, yielding to science, the spirit of the times and civilization. But if the Gurudwara is unwilling to do this and resists there is set aside for it within the State of Punjab a mere corner, as it were, one which is, moreover, kept under steady surveillance – and this is generally the case throughout the world today. According to Sikhi thought and aspirations, the desirable outcome is not that the Gurudwara evolve into a State, as from a lower type of existence to a higher one, but that, on the contrary, the state of Punjab should end by being deemed worthy to become exclusively a Gurudwara and nothing other.

Some of you may be encouraged a little. As some of you understand it, this is the realization of an ideal, one infinity remote, in th

e days of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji and afterward. A beautiful Utopian dream concerning the end of wars, diplomats, banks and the like. Something not all that unlike socialism. You might believe the Gurudwaras would for example, try criminals and sentence them to the birch and penal servitude, and possibly even death.

I believe that if there were now Gurudwara-civil court systems in place in Punjab like similar institutions exist in the Middle East and in Western Civilization (coincident with their respective religions of course), that the Gurudwaras would not send men to penal servitude or the scaffold. Crime and our view of it would undoubtedly change, little by little, or course, not suddenly and not overnight, but rather quickly all the same.

If everything were to become a Gurudwara, the Gurudwara would excommunicate from itself those elements that were criminal and recalcitrant, and would then abstain from ‘cutting off heads’ so to speak. Where would the excommunicate go, I ask you? After all, then he/she would have to forsake not only his fellows, but Guru Nanak Dev Ji as well as the rest of the Gurus. You see, by his/her crime he/she would have risen in rebellion not only against his/her fellows but against the Gurudwaras of Waheguru. This is, of course, in the strict sense true even now, except that it is not publicly enforced or stated, and the conscience of the present day criminal very often, exceedingly so, in fact, enter into bargains with itself, as if to say: “I may have committed theft, but I have no quarrel with the Gurudwara, and I am no enemy of Sikhism.” That is what the present –day criminal quite frequently says to himself; well, and when the Gurudwara will have supplanted the State of Punjab, then it will be difficult for him/her to say this without going against the whole of the institution of Khalistan, as though he were to declare: “Everyone is wrong, everyone has strayed, everyone is part of the false Gurudwara, and I alone, the murderer and thief, am the true Gurudwara.”

And, well, this is something that is fairly hard to say to oneself, it demands an enormous amount of preconditions, of circumstances that do not often occur. Now take, on the other hand, the view of the Gurudwara itself regarding crime: does it not have a duty to change in the face of the present pagan view of the matter, and move from being a mechanical amputation of infected limbs, such as takes place at present as a safeguard to society, towards transforming itself, completely this time and without falsehood, into an idea concerning the rebirth of man, his resurrection and salvation?

I give you this. In all the earth these is nothing whatever to compel human beings to love their fellows, and that as a law of the type “man shall love mankind, is wholly non-existent, and that if hitherto there has been any love upon the earth it has proceeded not from a natural law but solely from the fact that human beings have believed in their own immortality. In this same circumstance rests the whole of the natural law, and that if one were to destroy mankind’s faith in its own immortality (taking away the notion of reincarnation as from Sikhism), there would instantly grow enfeebled within it not only love, but every vital force for the continuation of universal life. Not only that: then nothing would be immoral, all things would be lawful, even anthropophagy. I conclude that for every private individual who has no belief in Waheguru or Sikhism in general, the moral law of nature must instantly be transformed in to the complete opposite of the old, religious law, and that selfish egoism even to the point of evildoing must not only be lawful to these individuals, but must even be acknowledged to be necessary, the most reasonable and indeed possible the most decent way out of the situation. From a paradox such as this, my brothers and sisters, you may draw your own conclusions regarding the rest of the things I consider. Without immortality there can be no virtue.’ And if the Gurudwaras act judicially with the threat

of excommunication, a death of belief if you will and the end of reincarnation, as a consequence of fundamental pre-scriptures then in effect Khalistan will pave the road for no virtues among those in the state of Punjab.

This leads to the decline of man’s faith in the immortality of their souls.

In what way then can Khalistan exist judicially as a conglomeration of Gurudwara to State or State to Gurudwara? There are eminent fundamental flaws of principle, and here I’ve mentioned only a few.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

Guru Roop Guru Khalsa Ji has declared Khalistan in the sarbat Khalsa....it is Guru Sahib's hukam. If you have no faith in the panth then you will continue to debate, if you serve the panth then you know the answer.

[DhadiMania]

every nation has its own religion, the jews would have been dead by now because of the opprestion they suffered by hitler and other nations. we are suffering under gandhi and india.

by getting our nation we wont get that. (but i am up for khalsa raj, guess khalistan is a start, but ought to be bigger, but thats beside the point).

[Singhstah]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

read my signature

[japmans]

The difference that i would like to point out, which i've pointed out a few times before, is in respect to the Jews... you'er right, without Israel, they WOULD have perished like mADDD all over the place... EVERYONE hated JEWS.. EVERYone!!!

That being said, you're making 100 000 dollars a year, you've got a nice house, your kids are settled, in school... are you going to get up and move to Khalistan, and start all over? Materialistically, it's needed.. but spiritually....is it? (someone else made this point, i forget who.. wanted to source it properly).

I'm not saying i'm ANTI-Khalistani, but at this point in time,, logistically, it doesn't seem logic at THIS point in time... any split with india would not be amicable... water issues.. trade issues... population issues... would we be democratic or dictatorship.. if democratic, would hindus be allowed to live in Khalistan.. if yes, would Hindus be allowed to move into Khalistan... if yes, would Hindus, under a democratic system, be able to create their own parties.. if yes, what's stopping the Hindu population from being a majority in Khalistan.... If nothing, couldn't a hindu party be in power in Khalistan in a very very short period of time thereafter (considering as it is, the state is barely a 55-45 sikh - hindu split).... it's just concern... that's allq

[nirgun]

Wouldn't the Almighty have blessed us with Khalistan if He saw fit, to begin with?

If it's in Hukam, then the Almighty certainly WILL and is GOING TO bless us with Khalistan. You should keep faith in your Guru.

We want Sikhs to be safe in India - we want them to be able to freely practice their religion without getting ridiculed or teased, we want all of our Sikh brothers still stuck in Punjab jails to be released, we want those people responsible for the deaths of 200,000 Sikhs to be punished. The Indian government is impossible and completely corrupt. Sikhs MADE Punjab what it is today.

You mention how with the creation of Khalistan, we will be tearing up the "brotherhood" of India. WHAT brotherhood? The brotherhood that caused Indian policemen to gang rape our sisters in front of their families and villages? The brotherhood that caused Indian policemen to urinate on our dead brothers bodies? The brotherhood that caused Hindu fanatics to burn our elderly people alive? The brotherhood that caused Indian soldiers to put a bullet into our Dhan Dhan Dhan Maharaj Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Jeeo? The brotherhood that caused Indian soldiers to bombarde our most holy shrine and laugh at the bullet holes and dusty, broken down remains of

Guru Arjan Dev Ji's harmandar? The brotherhood that Indian soldiers felt when they LAUGHED at the bloodied, muddy, waters of Guru Ram Daas Ji's pavitar Amrit Sarovar, full of dead bodies floating like fish?

I guess that's how India defines brotherhood!

Hindus and Muslims already got their own lands - didn't they already tear up the "brotherhood?" :T: So why do WE have to be the ones preserving it? Why should we be slaves living in Hindustan, being denied our rights? Barely any of the people responsible for 1984 were punished. What kind of justice is that? :| India claims to be so wonderful and respectful of her citizens, but she murders them instead. Our culture is being broken apart because of Bollywood, Hindu movies, and fundamentalist, ethnocentric, egotistical Hindu fanatic terrorist groups like the RSS, who are going into Punjabi villages and attempting to drill Hinduism into the minds of our Sikh children.

They try to make our children speak Hindi, some of them have even put Hinduism into the school curriculum so children are required to learn about Hinduism and Hindu history, and be tested on it. :T: Why???

In India's media, Sikhs are always portrayed as overweight, ugly, overly affectionate uneducated drunks who run after women half their age. When young Sikhs see this kind of garbage ALL AROUND THEM (in all Hindu movies, in all serials/soap operas/shows on Television, on TV and magazine commercials - everywhere), do they gain more pride about

the turbans on their heads? NO. They become ashamed. They want to become like Hrithik Roshan and Akshay Kumar and all these Hindu actors that are always portrayed as being noble and brave. Little does the world know, our Singhs could make those fairytale actors piss in their pants and cry themselves to sleep at night.

It's a matter of justice and freedom!!! Parnaam Shaheeda Nu. We will never forget their sacrifices, and will live, breathe, and die with our sweet Guru and our sweet Shaheeds in mind, always and forever willing to avenge their sacrifices and live for the perseverence of JUSTICE, TRUTH, and FREEDOM.

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[Bhullar]

-I agree with nirgun veerji!!

Didnt the gurus help hindus?? and what do we get in return?? :wub:

[The_Sikh]

We got what there about to get soon veerji....

[10th regiment]

that was very well argued one sikhi

but im sure some clever singh will work out the answers to ur questions

but then again no clever singh is allowed to live

just look at harmander singh sandhu and the way he was killed and by whom

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Excellent reply Nirgun Ji!

Just wanted to comment on one point by one sikhi. He asked what right have we Sikhs to claim Punjab as Khalistan. One simple thing, we are a majority in Punjab and the democratic norm is that the majority rules. The Muslims through their majority got West Punjab for themselves even though Sikhs owned the best lands and paid the most in taxes in these areas. As one Sikh leader said, the British have taken the Punjab from the owner and given it to the tenents! The Hindus through their majority took away Himachal and Haryana from Punjab. And now you ask what right have Sikhs got to the leftover area?

GurFateh

Bikramjit Singh