Is Krishna The Most Supreme God Worshipped In Guru Granth Sahib Also ?

[SevaSimran333]

SevaSimran333,

This might be helpful in regards to your question:

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73019-mukti/

Haribol!

Thank you kind sir~

[DeccanSingh]

If I remember correctly from the Bhagvad Gita by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami the soul does not lose it's individuality when it dwells with Krishna. On the other hand it has already been proven Gurmat rejects the very notion of Krishna being the supreme being himself! How does this concept of the soul, propounded by the Gita, relate with Gurmat?

[N30S1NGH]

If I remember correctly from the Bhagvad Gita by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami the soul does not lose it's individuality when it dwells with Krishna. On the other hand it has already been proven Gurmat rejects the very notion of Krishna being the supreme being himself! How does this concept of the soul, propounded by the Gita, relate with Gurmat?

Different interpretations but we also have to look at the context as there is bhagti, karam, yog and gyan marg within bhagvad gita, if that translation relates to bhagti then its talking about sargun bhagti/mukhti - it really depends on seeker as similiarly listed there - http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/73019-mukti/ but when it comes to discourses in gyan marg then krishna makes it absolutely clear to that arjuna explore his own real self- vedas/Upanishads esteroric gyan of self-OM turiya one all pervading consciousness..!!

[panthicunity]

AAge Anta Na Paaya Taka , Kans ched Kya Vada Bhaya A 305 , Asa Mahla 1st

[ghettosikh]

sikhs dont worship krishna snm

[harsharan000]

My question to whomever may wish to answer is this: If one has lost their identity and merged back into Wahiguru, what does one do there? Or what happens to You? If you, as a Soul, has always existed, then what is it that the Soul does in this merged state?

Dear Seva Simran, there can be a few satisactory answers to this your question above, but I am going to answer you with a quotation from the sacred Bani of our Guru Sahibans.

The quotation is from Raag Bilavaal, by Sachay Badshah Sree Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj:

sooraj kiran milay jal kaa jal hoo-aa raam.

The rays of light merge with the sun, and water merges with water.

jotee jot ralee sampooran thee-aa raam.

One's light blends with the Light, and one becomes totally perfect.

Though the words are very clear, He says:

Just as the rays of Sunlight merge in the Sun, and just as the water of a river merges in the sea,

So does my (soul) Light, merges in that Supreme Soul(Wahiguru Akal Purukh), and becomes totally perfect like Him.

So, you see, by reaching His abode, one becomes one with Him, without any distinction.

The Bani says: Sach Khand vaseh Nirankar. Means, in that region of Truth, only the formless Lord exists. It has to be so, because, if by reaching there you become Him....then who else is there apart from Him? Of course no body. There is no multiplicity. Only Him. This is the path of Gurmat. And only He, is the objective of Gurmat.

As per other religions/paths...when one reaches Swarg, Baikunth, or the level of that deity worshipped, one retains that individual identity, because that deity is not the ultimate truth, or supreme Truth, in which that individual soul can merge in....So that devotee and that deity are two individual identities there, both of them, though in a subtler and finer plane, are very much in Braham, causal region, which is under the jurisdiction of mind still.

I am sorry if you feel hurt, I know how is that feeling, because, one has seen and believed in some things, which one has seen since one has been born. I do not want even to make you feel low, by trying to show you, that your beleif is lesser than ours.... I am my self against all these stupidities, but as you have asked a question, it was my obligation to answer you to the best of my ability.

You see, once one realizes what the Truth is, it does not matter, what is your background. Gurmat does not say to change your religion, nor your rituals, nothing of that sort. It is our mind which has to change, from being a manmukh to a gurmukh, because it is due to the mind, that we are separated from Him. That mind is our only enemy to fight with, and if we defeat it, with the teachings of Gurmat, we are then His disciples, His sikhs, His devotees....because Gurmat is universal in time and place, not for a particular caste, country, creed or community.

The purpose of Gurmat, is to reunite the soul with the Lord, the atma with the Paramatma...that´s it.

It is our mind which has to be converted or disciplined, not the body. So one outwardly can be the same to the eyes of the world, but it is within oneself, where one notices the changes for good taking place gradually. And that is nothing, but His Grace.

The Guru Sahibans do not come to create any new religion, their religion is of the truth, and that Truth is the same for all souls.

Just as all the rays, merge in the Sun, so can all souls merge in Him, no matter if they are located in the north, south, east or west. They have emerged from Him, and have to merge in Him, one day

Brother, do not take the Bani as mere literature, but as a mine of infinite unvaluable gems and pearls. Each word in it, is worth more than billions of dollars ....

Hardly in the world is there any parallel to the beauty and wisdom contained in the Bani. You may just start with JapJi Sahib, the Anand Sahib or Sukhmani Sahib . There are a lots of webs where you can go through them, and then too if you need any aid, you may ask any of us here, we shall gladly help you to sort out your doubts.

If you believe in Krishna, go on, do not leave him, but by understanding and following Gurmat throughly, you yourself will come to know the undefinable beauty and reality beyond any imagination.

May God bless you.

[SevaSimran333]

Thank you Harsharan000,

I really respect the view of yourself and Sikhs, there are many similarities to what we believe, and this is indeed rare to find in the world. I am not hurt by your words, and thank you for your consideration when explaining such sentiments to me.

It is a very honorable form of liberation when one is able to merge with the Effulgence of The Lord (White Light, Brahmajoyti, Pure Consciousness). And as another very nice Sikh gentleman mentioned in another topic post, there are a few recognized variations of liberation. One mentioned is that one is blessed with similar bodily features as The Lord (Narayana). We also recognize all of these various stages of liberation, so here we have common ground. I can only guess that they are all extremely blissful in their own beautiful way.

I think one of the only minor differences (from reading over what you have mentioned as well as posts in other threads) is the feeling of which liberation is most preferable. It may seem absurd, but for the devotee of Sri Krishna there is no greater 'liberation' than to be constantly engaged in His devotional service. This means that although liberation from this material world is our original blissful state, we as devotees would rather be serving and remembering Him through our actions either here or anywhere else in the cosmic creation. That being said, this cosmic creation can also include the Spiritual world. So one may be blessed to continue with seva in the spiritual sky in direct association of The Lord in His bodily form.

The devotee of Krishna does not strive for liberation, but rather strives for the deepest loving connection in service to The Supreme. Libration is simply a side effect of one engaging their life towards loving The Lord and providing an opportunity for other souls do to so too.

We read in scriptures like Srimad Bhagavatam, that completely liberated souls (the yogi who is able to merge into the Supreme Effulgence at will) are still attracted to hearing the past times of The Lord. They relish the nectar of chanting His Holy Names (Hari Naam), and are often in states of transcendental ecstasy when remembering Him.

For these reasons and many more, we chose to remember Krsna in all situations and circumstances (or at least TRY to). We offer our food to Him. We chant His Names throughout the day, and retell stories of His pastimes here. All of these things bring much satisfaction to the devotee.

Thank you again for the wonderful conversation~

Hari Bol! Jaya Gauranga!

~Seva

[scali]

The point Gurus made is not that Krishna, Rama, Shiva or else is great they said we are all the same. The message resonated by Gurus for all is "Man tu jot sarup hai apna mool pechan" . The true master is not the one with most followers but who makes the most masters.

[harsharan000]

The point Gurus made is not that Krishna, Rama, Shiva or else is great they said we are all the same. The message resonated by Gurus for all is "Man tu jot sarup hai apna mool pechan" . The true master is not the one with most followers but who makes the most masters.

Wow, hats off to what Scali has said.

It is totally true, that it is only the True Master, who makes the most masters.

And so to which that particular Master does the Bani refers?

The Bani tells us : Shabad Guru, Surat dhun chela. That Anahad Shabad, is our true Guru or Master, of which the naked pure soul, (means not the physical body, neither the astral, nor the causa, which are all perishable) is the disciple or sikh.

The teachings of the Saints also gives us another beautiful example. We all know what is "paraas". Which we call in english, the philosopher´s stone. It is beleived, that if this paaras touches anything, it converts it into gold, but never into a paaras, like itself.

On the contrary, if one comes into the touch of such a paaras like Shabad, it will first make make/convert you like Itself in essence, and then it will attract you towards itself and make you one with Itself, just as same as Shabad.

This all is very quickly said and written, but if one stops even for a minute or two to think about it, one just gets wonder struck ... oh my God.... I had heard you were great, but such greatness, such Mercy and Grace You cand shower on me, that to a stone like me, You can make me like Yousrself..... it is beyond any imagination and description ...

This is Gurmat, and it´s only purpose.

Dhan Dhan Waheguru...wah wah Waheguru.

[SevaSimran333]

The point Gurus made is not that Krishna, Rama, Shiva or else is great they said we are all the same. The message resonated by Gurus for all is "Man tu jot sarup hai apna mool pechan" . The true master is not the one with most followers but who makes the most masters.

*This all depends on which Guru you are following...some Gurus will say You are great, but even fewer will tell you that God is greater.

To say we are as great as God (or we can become so) is to deny the indescribable greatness and glories of God. How can that which has created us, along with everything in existence from the unlimited galaxies down to the insignificant ant, not be far greater than we are? It is easy to speculate and think that one day I will become as great as God...But ask yourself this question right now: Can I do any of the vastly amazing things that God can? Maybe I have a few good qualities that are a bit comparable to God's, but God has Unlimited great qualities.

A simple example we can ask ourselves to see if we are God: Can I create a planet? There are an unlimited amount of planets in our material universe, and it seems that God has created all of these with little to no effort. (I'm aware that this may seem like an outrageous question because of course we cannot do such things, but can God not do this and greater acts with ease?)

I am also aware that not many will follow this chain of logic and reasoning because it seems too simple. But this is what we practice, humility. We chant in a humble state of mind, feeling oneself to be lower than the straw in the street.

If we are truly humble, how can we compare our tiny minds and abilities to that of God's?

~All glories to our eternal Master and Creator! Haribol