Shooting At Wisconsin Sikh Temple (Gurdwara)

[Harjeet 5]

Should Sikhs in America upgrade their Shastra to keep 1 Gun per Sikh individual (modern Shastra) or at least 1 gun per household, and every Gurudwara to have atleast 5 Gunman Sikhs (Khalsa) for Gurudwara security?

I think this should inspire us to take our sikhi to the next level. When we do that Guruji will automatically show us what we need to and how to protect ourselves.

But keeping a gun, in kalyuga....... sounds like a good idea to me. At the same time we shouldn't fear anything. If it is Guruji's will we are to die, we will die, if it is his will that we live, we will live.

[hsisingh 18]

Interview with Amardeep Kaleka - son of Satwant Singh Kaleka on US TV yesterday : http://www.msnbc.msn...el_maddow_show/

[fightingsingh 15]

There is no excuse in a country like America why Sikhs should not keep firearms. At least one firearm should be kept on Gurdwara property, the responsibility of which should be entrusted with a respected member of the commitee or a respected Gursikh/sewadaar. This should not be a difficult thing to organise and given the hostile climate in which US Sikhs live, it is not a far-fetched precaution to take. There is no reason why every Sikh home should not keep a firearm in the house as well, particularly in the US.

Even in the UK, it is very easy to obtain a shotgun license. All you need is £50, a shotgun certificate from a police station, an approved bolted down cabinet in your home, no criminal convictions or mental health disorders, and a quick short interview with a visiting police officer to state why you want to keep a gun. For this, you may state that you want to use it for hunting, clay pigeon shooting, target shooting, pest control or rough shooting on farm land that belongs to a friend of yours. No evidence needs to be provided for these. This is in contrast to a firearms lisence (rifles, handguns etc) which are much harder to get hold of and you have to provide evidence of membership to a gun club. No such evidence is required in order to buy a shotgun.

Guns which you can obtain under a shotgun lisence include single shot, double barrelled shotgun, and up to three shot pump action shotguns. You can buy second hand shotguns from £60-£100.

If people feel uncomfortable with firearms, then at least consider crossbows, 3ft kirpans, machetes, slingshots and lathis. Even in the UK, we need to keep a few bits and bobs in the Gurdwareh and at home.

Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Moreover, firing shotguns for sport is great fun and an enjoyable hobby

[11Gurus1Jot 176]

http://www.cnn.com/v...inder-singh.cnn

Great interview by Narinder SIngh from the Sikh coalition.

Yes, Good interview. But, again, what the bald interviewer says at 3.38 does not really help this interview at all. We do need to get the message across that Sikhs are not Muslims. i.e not only are Sikhs are not associated with the Taliban, Sikhs are not associated with Islam or the Muslim religion, period! (or full stop as we say in the UK.)

We have nothing against the Muslims at all, but we Sikhs want to be known as Sikhs. Why are we Sikhs so scared of simply sayings 'Sikhs are not Muslims' Why? The Muslims are not stupid or daft, they are big enough to justify their own religion. They {the Muslims] do not need, or want, us Sikhs to patronise them, by lying and making the world think they [the Muslims] are associated with our religion. Just like us they are proud to be a part of their religion and to be known as stand alone religion with their own separate beliefs and principles, in their own right. Accepting every religion to be different, and knowing what makes them different, is true acceptance! That is co-existence! Our Gurus stood true to their beliefs and let others follow their beliefs. We Sikhs should stand true to our beliefs and let Muslims follow their beliefs instead of standing back and letting millions and millions and millions of people around the World believe the lie that the Sikh Religion is not a stand alone religion, but instead is associated to either the Hindu or Muslim religion.

I think the fact that the nut case, and extremely cowardly gun man, had a 9/11 tattoo on his arm should tell us Sikhs that we still need to let people know thatwe are not Muslims. If we fail in letting the world know this now we could be indirectly responsible for the deaths of further Sikhs who get murdered due to slow minded people not knowing Sikhs are not Muslims. The Mosques are safe due to there being a bigger number of Muslims around the world to proctect the Mosques. Also, the many, many Muslim nations around the world can put pressure on countries like America and England to protect the mosques and muslims in these countries. However, which country do Sikhs have as a Sikh Nation to put pressure on these Governments to protect the Sikhs and Gurdware in western countries??

I think the American Law Enforcement Agencies did a great job in this case. But we don't want further American officers being nearly shot to death because we have not been able to let the Western World know that Sikhs are not Muslims. If the Western media also wants to prevent further innocent officers from being nearly shot to death while stopping white neo-nazis in their tracks then maybe they too should make sure that they make it clear that Sikhs are not Muslims!

If you do not know how big this problem of mistaken identity is for us then I ask you to go and ask any white westerner if the Sikh Religion is part of any other religion, and just see what answer you get !!!!!!!!!!!

I appreciate that this is late. However, if we had let the world know that Sikhs are not Muslims from 9/11 onwards... maybe what happen in wisconsin a few days ago may not have occured at all !!

[Kalsingh 92]

i.e not only are Sikhs are not associated with the Taliban, Sikhs are not associated with Islam or the Muslim religion, period! (or full stop as we say in the UK.)

This is key. All too often over the years, I have heard our own brothers, uncles etc say to the cameras that Sikhs are not associated with the Taliban. We are not terrorists and are not fundamentalists. But this is still not making it clear we are NOT MUSLIM. And by saying this, it does not mean we are saying it is ok to attack muslims but we are just making it very clear we are not muslims. I don't get the political correctness here.

The thing is, muslims generally are very hard to identify, compared to Sikhs. And if people think the Sikh image is that of a muslim, they are naturally going to attack sikhs. If they knew Sikhs had nothing to do with Islam, are not muslim, they would find it much more difficult to select their next targets for a hate crime and would probably put it off altogether.

On a sidenote, I feel the shooter had hate for all non whites and non christians anyway. Even if he knew Sikhs were not Muslims, he quite possibly still could have done it. Nevertheless, it is the mistaken identity which probably fed his motivation to go and do this.

[esingh 46]

I understand the whole thing about educating people about Sikhs but as has been clearly stated this guy was in military intelligence! He clearly knew about Islam, probably had in-depth understanding of Sunni/Shia, as he served in Iraq. This could not have been mistaken identity.

He belonged to a hate group that considers anyone non-white subhuman. Maybe the Gurdwara was a softer target?

[Kalsingh 92]

I understand the whole thing about educating people about Sikhs but as has been clearly stated this guy was in military intelligence! He clearly knew about Islam, probably had in-depth understanding of Sunni/Shia, as he served in Iraq. This could not have been mistaken identity.

He belonged to a hate group that considers anyone non-white subhuman. Maybe the Gurdwara was a softer target?

Brother, you'd be surprised at how incredibly dumb and stupid people can be. Even if he knew Sikhs are not Muslim directly, sometimes ignorant people don't want to know. They think in their heads, 'they look the same, i don't really care about the difference in their beliefs, they're all the same to me'. Stuff like that.

Also, the fact he was military doesn't mean he knows who Sikhs are. You would think it would mean that, but it doesn't always. In the UK, there was a policeman who called a Singh a 'Muslim Sikh' whatever the hell that is.

[11Gurus1Jot 176]

This is key. All too often over the years, I have heard our own brothers, uncles etc say to the cameras that Sikhs are not associated with the Taliban. We are not terrorists and are not fundamentalists. But this is still not making it clear we are NOT MUSLIM. And by saying this, it does not mean we are saying it is ok to attack muslims but we are just making it very clear we are not muslims. I don't get the political correctness here.

I couldn't agree with you more Kalsingh! We go on our own channels and non-Sikh channels and keep mentioning Taliban, terrorists, fundamentalists associating those words with our image and name when in fact we have been proven to be the most helpful religion for all of mankind. All we need to say is we are not Muslims, Sikhs are not Muslims!

this guy was in military intelligence! He clearly knew about Islam, probably had in-depth understanding of Sunni/Shia, as he served in Iraq. This could not have been mistaken identity.

What you forget esingh is that this guy (crazy gun man M Page) had the worst case of mental illness you can have. You have to be really really, chronically mentally ill to start firing at unarmed people. Forget white supremecy this poor cowardly soul showed the dark depths of human inferiority. Every right minded white person is embarressed by what he did and is trying to disassociate themselves from this poor derranged coward. This crazy gun man demonstrated the lowest form of intelligence, the worst case of cowardliness, the darkest form of evil, depths that even hyenas have never been able to sink to. Whereas, the White American Police Officers who took bullets from this coward and shot him dead are at completely the other end of the spectrum. These American Police Officers showed the hieght of courage, selflessness and great intelligence. If there is supremacy it lies with all those beings that demonstrate courage, intelligence and selflessness (which the crazy killer gun man possessed none of).

Brother, you'd be surprised at how incredibly dumb and stupid people can be. Even if he knew Sikhs are not Muslim directly, sometimes ignorant people don't want to know. They think in their heads, 'they look the same, i don't really care about the difference in their beliefs, they're all the same to me'. Stuff like that.

Also, the fact he was military doesn't mean he knows who Sikhs are. You would think it would mean that, but it doesn't always. In the UK, there was a policeman who called a Singh a 'Muslim Sikh' whatever the hell that is.

Again, Kalsingh, agree with you totally. We (the Sikhs) have to let the World know who we are, or, how can we (the Sikhs) then not be held responsible for further innocent people dying just because they wear a beard and turban, All the terrorist in the 9/11 attacks in America, and 7/11 attacks in England were Muslims who DID NOT wear turbans or have uncut beards. The terrorist responsible for 9/11 and 7/11 were Muslims NOT SIKHS and they did not have uncut hair like Sikhs or they did not wear turbans like Sikhs. Even any media that causes confusion leading people to believe Sikhs are Muslims will have the blood of innocent Sikhs on their hands. Media staff, News readers, reports and interviewers should think very carefully before they deliberately, or by mistake or ignorance, tell the lie that Sikhs are associated to Muslims.

[panthicunity 229]

Please do not demean the kakar each shaster is valuable my 9 inch kirpan can. divide a solid grill into 2 parts it is lack of fighting spirit which resulted in wearing of blunt kirpans we call ourselves liberal and created good professionals but forgot the solider like featues result was 1984and fake encounters of sikhs if we convert our fold the khalsa into true milatary form then we will be able to save ourselves.

veer, If you are wearing an actual kirpaan all the power to you , but in addition we also need handguns at the very least , this insane man would have been able to much less damage if some of the gurughar attendees had guns on them.

[kullykhalsa 124]

thats if you trust the attendees to not use them on each other on election night, fact is guns in gurdwara would do more harm than good. If singhs/singhnia learnt how to use their kirpan/kara as weapons that would be better!

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

thats if you trust the attendees to not use them on each other on election night, fact is guns in gurdwara would do more harm than good. If singhs/singhnia learnt how to use their kirpan/kara as weapons that would be better!

I was thinking the above as well. We all like to joke about committee fights and the like, but can you imagine the headlines (in the U.S.) if it all kicked-off between a committee and everyone used guns? It doesn't bear thinking about.

[Harjeet 5]

read my post why i think it was not a hate crime, but government sponsored terror.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/Index.php?/topic/67755-why-i-believe-it-was-not-a-hate-crime-white-supremacists/

[HKaur16 212]

Apparently now the officials say that Wade Micheals committed suicide and was not killed by the officer.

"REVEALED: Neo-Nazi Sikh temple shooter shot himself dead in the head after killing six in Wisconsin massacre"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2185468/Wisconsin-shooting-Wade-Michael-Page-shot-head-killing-six.html#ixzz22yXdcVvQ

[Beginner 96]

Does America know a lot more about Sikhism now? Maybe someone can share their post shooting experiences??

[Singh559 2,658]

Sick tune!!!

http://soundcloud.co...ifty-singh-dear

Partly disagree with the gun reference though.