Ajnala, Dhumma, Badal, Majithia, Radha Soami Connection

[chatanga]

All Panthic bodies should get behind Bhai Amrik Singh Jee. Far from getting excommunicated, I think he is the most ablest leader we have right now and should be the Jathadar of the Akal Takht.

Maybe these same Panthic bodies could ask Bhai Amrik Singh why, when the people of waraich village asked him to remove the 3 saroops of Guru Granth Sahib, because there was no-one there to do the sewa of them, why he removed only 1 saroop and left the other 2 there?

Maybe they could also ask him why he went to a Raksha poonia program some days ago, why he kept quiet watching that miss pooja thing shake her thang at religious program? Maybe it was the RS 20 000 that he was given to shut his mouth?

I don't believe ends justify the means in any case at all. That's an excuse for not understanding a problem. I say this because I believe that is the only argument Dhumma can have for associating with Badal without criticizing him.

Baba Harnam Singh association witrh Badal is for the welfare of the Panth.

Can you please tell what the question was, I don't remember and I tried looking at closed topics and it wasn't there.

Gladly.

In the times of Dal Panth, there were people, moghals who hated the very sight of a SIkh, and killed thousands of Sikhs.

ie Adina Beg, the Commander of jallandhar.

But when Adina Beg had to face Abdali, he knew he coudnt win, and so he called the SIkhs to ally with him against Abdali. The SIkhs knowing that they were unable to face the afghans in ope battle, made a pact with a man, who had killed thousands of them to fight an enemy who would have killed even more of them. Not only with Adina Beg, but the Sikhs made a sandhinama with Mir Mannu. You know the famous song the Sikhs sanga about Mir Mannu?

So in the eyes of you "clever, righteous 13", where Nawab Kapoor Singh a traitor? or Sultan ul Quam Jassa Singh Ahluwalia a traitor? The other Sikhs Sardars of that era? Bhai Sukha Singh Ji?

If you are prepared to straightup call Baba Harnam Singh a traitor because of his alliance with a dusht like Badal, are you prepared to say the same about these othe SIkh leaders?

[Singh559]

Maybe these same Panthic bodies could ask Bhai Amrik Singh why, when the people of waraich village asked him to remove the 3 saroops of Guru Granth Sahib, because there was no-one there to do the sewa of them, why he removed only 1 saroop and left the other 2 there?

Maybe they could also ask him why he went to a Raksha poonia program some days ago, why he kept quiet watching that miss pooja thing shake her thang at religious program? Maybe it was the RS 20 000 that he was given to shut his mouth?

Baba Harnam Singh association witrh Badal is for the welfare of the Panth.

Gladly.

In the times of Dal Panth, there were people, moghals who hated the very sight of a SIkh, and killed thousands of Sikhs.

ie Adina Beg, the Commander of jallandhar.

But when Adina Beg had to face Abdali, he knew he coudnt win, and so he called the SIkhs to ally with him against Abdali. The SIkhs knowing that they were unable to face the afghans in ope battle, made a pact with a man, who had killed thousands of them to fight an enemy who would have killed even more of them. Not only with Adina Beg, but the Sikhs made a sandhinama with Mir Mannu. You know the famous song the Sikhs sanga about Mir Mannu?

So in the eyes of you "clever, righteous 13", where Nawab Kapoor Singh a traitor? or Sultan ul Quam Jassa Singh Ahluwalia a traitor? The other Sikhs Sardars of that era? Bhai Sukha Singh Ji?

If you are prepared to straightup call Baba Harnam Singh a traitor because of his alliance with a dusht like Badal, are you prepared to say the same about these othe SIkh leaders?

It's a good question and I'll be honest, I have no real reply or answer to it.

Only thing I can say is the circumstances between before and now are very different and the danger isn't as imminent today. I don't see the Panth unifying under this decision, whereas in the past almost all Sikhs were unified with the exception of a few that probably hadn't taken Amrit.

I don't see anything positive coming out of using Badal for whatever reason. Actually, considering Badal's power and influence, I'd think he was using Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma instead.

Instead of creating distance amongst ourselves over a difference as to whether DHumma should be associated with Badal, we should all also acknowledge we all agree that Badal is anti-Panthic. The rest is everyone's approach and perspective mixed with opinions, including mine. All we can do is be as sincere as we can. Funny thing is even if we are 100% sincere we are bound to come up with different conclusions lol/

[proactive]

Chatanga,

You really are on a losing wicket supporting Dhumma and Rode. Rode has been a sell out for the last two decades. He was released from prison solely to plant the seeds of discord into the Khalistani Jathebandia. I don't know how old you are but I have followed the movement since Bluestar. Rode instead of supporting Khalistan when he was made Akal Takht Jathedar started making statements about Pooran Azaadi without specifying what it meant. He was a stooge of the GOI and whilst many Khalistanis died during Operation Black Thunder, Rode was arrested.

You say that Dhumma has taken part in the Khalistan movement, this may have been the case but the whole concept of a traitor is that he can carry out his treachery because a significant number of people will claim that he could never betray the movement because he has done so much for the movement in previous years. You can only be of use to the GOI if you are in a position of power which would have been gained on the back of genuine sacrifices.

You use the historical event that Sikhs allied themselves with one enemy in order to fighter a greater enemy. But do you really think that Santa's betrayal in 1984 and Dhumma's now can really be compared with the events of the 18th century? Singh559 had a great answer, only a unified Panth can make a collective decision to ally with one enemy against another. Your claim that Dhumma is allied with Badal for the betterment of the Panth is laughable? So what has be achievement by being Badal's chumca? The only thing I can think of is the Bluestar memorial which is now looking like a non-achievement because he has accepted Badal's order that the memorial will be just one more Gurdwara in the compex rather than a memorial that will alive the memory of the shaheeds. The problem with the Sant Samaj and Dhumma is that they are small minded insecure yes men who have no idea that they could easily unseat Badal if they made a collective effort and joined forces with anti-Badal Akalis. Because of Dhumma we will now have Badal junior to wreck the Panth for the next few decades.

[Only five]

Bhai Amrik Singh is not humble, dont pretend he is. Baba Harnam Singh has never given anyone authoriity to call him Sant, but people do, even though he calls himself Harnam Singh only. Baba Harnam Singh is humble, in that he takes everything Amrik Singh says and doesnt say anything back, as he doesnt wish to get involved in a war of words with him.

Not a single Gurmukh calls Harnam Singh, Sant. Only some mindless fools call him Sant. Also Bhai Amrik Singh ji is exposing Harnam Singh's wrong doing. You being in love with Harnam Singh obviously don't want that.

Bro, you and me, we get on yeah? You know i have alot of respect for you, cos i think you are a good guy, and a young guy who is very interested in the welfare of the Panth, just as I am yeah?

Somebody trying the Poltical tricks his best bud (harnam Singh) gave him on Singhs here. Singho lets get this poster a violin and a nice dining table for two with flowers in the middle. He can have a romantic dinner with Harnam Singh, like how Harnam Singh has romantic dinners with Badal. You learn well from you masters.

a while ago, You started something about taking Taksal back from Baba Harnam Singh but then after i posted some facts on it, you asked for the topic to be deleted, I thought you would have learned then and stopped this nonsense by now.

I put a question to you many times but you have never answered it, and the same goes for you "clever 13" who have voted. Why didnt you answer it?

Why are you or the other 13 unable to answer it, but keep crying about Baba Harnam Sngh?

Benti Bro, either answer the question, or please dont ever write drivel like above. Im asking you as your brother and fellow Sikh.

Stop your games here. No one is buying them.

no it wouldnt be suicide, stop being such a drama queen. I know its hard for you. How many people are behind Bhai Amrik Singh in panjab? 20? 30? 100?

and you know as well, that Baba Harnam Singh is from Sant Ji's jatha as well.

Drama queen is the one who keeps going on about how Harnam Singh is doing seva in secret and then cant produce anything. You and Harnam Singh must have some secret crime fight mission when night falls. Put on your black skin tight suits with your guts hanging over your knees cuz you were to busy eating sangats golak during the day. What mission does the big giant head Badal go for you guys tonight..............rob the poor person down the street of their two dollar earnings a day?

Key word was...............Ajnala is the jatha because he was given the seva by Sant Baba Thakur Singh ji Maharaj to continue the seva. Harnam Singh has been kicked out for his slander against Sant ji.

He is up there with the possilbles of leaders, but as for panthic jathbandies getting behind him, what will they do ? What power will they have? You know and I know.

What has Harnam Singh done with all his best buddies including Badal. Which Beadbi have they stopped. Harnam Singh has a lot of people behind him according to you and what have they done so far. Bhagat Jaswant Singh ji had nothing good to say about Harnam Singh. He laughed when a Singh even said Harnam Singhs name. Gurmukhs are laughing at him. And you are kissing Harnam Singhs feet. Good luck............your black fight suit is toooo tight around your head.

[Only five]

The issue trully here is that Sant Baba Thakur Singh ji Maharaj blessed the Taksal seva to Ajnala and these fake so called students of Sant ji and fake members of Taksal are very angry that they did not get the seva. Harnam Singh was very jealous and some way wanted to get at the top. He knew not a single Taksal Singh would accept him. So he begged at Badals feet to get Badals forces to get him in a position of authority, by physical force and political power. In return Harnam Singh would listen to Badals every word and never do against Badals wishes.

The only reason why today Harnam Singh still has political power is because he keeps kissing Badals feet. The day Harnam Singh becomes a true Sikh is the day Badal will kick him out of his political circle and take all of Harnam Singhs political power away.

Harnam Singh is nothing and doesn't even deserve to be shot dead by a Singhs gun. The bullet would serve a higher purpose in target practice.

[Karku_007]

''Not a single Gurmukh calls Harnam Singh, Sant. Only some mindless fools call him Sant. Also Bhai Amrik Singh ji is exposing Harnam Singh's wrong doing. You being in love with Harnam Singh obviously don't want that''

This is a sign of inmaturity. How do you know that no single Gurmukh supports Baba Harnam Singh ? so by your logic Baba hari Singh Randawa and other prominent Sikhs are not Gurmukhs. I suppose Sant Jarnail Singh Bhrindwale's family, especially his son, Isher Sing is also not a Gurmukh. Singh's close to Baba Harnam Singh ji, say that if nothing elses they have a lot of respect for him in that he does a lot of 'Nam abyasa'. Please post arguments with a bit of logic.

[osingh]

It is not right to talk about killing our fellow brothers. Daas does not agree with Sant Samaj joining Badal however all Gursikhs are brothers and sisters despite differences. When we write we should follow principles set out in Gurbani.

The current Panthic situation is very dark and ekta is far away. Daas puts all his faith in the true sarkar which is Nirankaar.

Sant Samaj need to realise that they have alienated themselves by joining the dusht Badal. If Sant Samaj and other Panthic groups formed a third front independent of corrupt politicians then the Panth will get somewhere.

Satguru Mehar Karan!

[chatanga]

Chatanga,

You really are on a losing wicket supporting Dhumma and Rode. Rode has been a sell out for the last two decades. He was released from prison solely to plant the seeds of discord into the Khalistani Jathebandia. I don't know how old you are but I have followed the movement since Bluestar. Rode instead of supporting Khalistan when he was made Akal Takht Jathedar started making statements about Pooran Azaadi without specifying what it meant. He was a stooge of the GOI and whilst many Khalistanis died during Operation Black Thunder, Rode was arrested.

Tony, you been following the movement for the 28 years, inside and out? You know about all the meetings and all the political wranglings that went on between the Sikhs and the govt? You know who proposed what and who went against it?

No, you dont, for someone who is as astute and analytical as you are, you really surprise me with you bull$hit about Singh Sahib Bhai Jasvir Singh Rode. I myself, have not really met too many people who have been part of the movement. I have met Bittu and Gama a few times, met some singhs who were with Karaj Singh Thande in the army, met people who have known Avtar Singh Brahma and Aroor Singh, like they know their own brothers, and met gun runners for Sukhwinder Singh Sangha, amongst others etc, but even there are lots and lots of things about the movement that i dont know of, things that you just cant read in books.

I have 2 questions for you since you think you know everything:

Who first termed the phrase " puran azadi" ?

Why was it used,rather than Khalistan?

Many Khalistanis died during black thunder because they were infiltrated with spies. Who in their right mind would go to Darbar Sahib and stay there armed? Didnt they learn the lesson 1st time around? they wanted bluestar to happen again?

Come on geezer, either someone useing your username to type shiit or you just really having a bad day.

You say that Dhumma has taken part in the Khalistan movement, this may have been the case but the whole concept of a traitor is that he can carry out his treachery because a significant number of people will claim that he could never betray the movement because he has done so much for the movement in previous years. You can only be of use to the GOI if you are in a position of power which would have been gained on the back of genuine sacrifices.

I see, so someone who had the chance to get lots of Sikh militants killed passed on that, to support them but when the time came for a change in strategy, he suddenly became a traitor. What exactly has he become a traitor to? How is Baba Harnam Singh suddenly a GOI agent?

You use the historical event that Sikhs allied themselves with one enemy in order to fighter a greater enemy. But do you really think that Santa's betrayal in 1984 and Dhumma's now can really be compared with the events of the 18th century? Singh559 had a great answer, only a unified Panth can make a collective decision to ally with one enemy against another. Your claim that Dhumma is allied with Badal for the betterment of the Panth is laughable? So what has be achievement by being Badal's chumca? The only thing I can think of is the Bluestar memorial which is now looking like a non-achievement because he has accepted Badal's order that the memorial will be just one more Gurdwara in the compex rather than a memorial that will alive the memory of the shaheeds.

A unfiied panth? when is the last time the Panth was unified? History does not tell us that the Panth was ever united, even in the days of Dal Khalsa, with the Misl of Ala SIngh doing whatever they wanted. In the case of sandhinama with the Panths enemies by Dal Khalsa, there is nothing on record to say that the Panth was united on this or disunited. If there is you can bring it here.

I can claim alliance with badal is for the welfare of the panth, it may be laughable to you, but the facts speak for themselves. A historic day for the SGPC, when they are getting members who are panthic first and foremost. this may mean little to you, but it means a lot to others.

The problem with the Sant Samaj and Dhumma is that they are small minded insecure yes men who have no idea that they could easily unseat Badal if they made a collective effort and joined forces with anti-Badal Akalis.

Tony, me know you ay this stupid.

It's a good question and I'll be honest, I have no real reply or answer to it.

Only thing I can say is the circumstances between before and now are very different and the danger isn't as imminent today. I don't see the Panth unifying under this decision, whereas in the past almost all Sikhs were unified with the exception of a few that probably hadn't taken Amrit.

I don't see anything positive coming out of using Badal for whatever reason. Actually, considering Badal's power and influence, I'd think he was using Baba Harnam Singh Dhumma instead.

Instead of creating distance amongst ourselves over a difference as to whether DHumma should be associated with Badal, we should all also acknowledge we all agree that Badal is anti-Panthic. The rest is everyone's approach and perspective mixed with opinions, including mine. All we can do is be as sincere as we can. Funny thing is even if we are 100% sincere we are bound to come up with different conclusions lol/

We all acknowledge badal is anti-panthic, there is no discussion about that. But can we discuss whether badal (whether we like it or not) holds the reins of power in the Sikh panth at the moment?

I am not comparing the circumstances exactly of todays situation with that of the example i gave, what i mean is that everyone i saying Baba Harnam Singh has sided with the enemy, he must be a traitor to the panth etc, but if we look in history....... you know the rest.

I dnt know either whether this decision by Dal Panth was taken by the leader of Dal Panth or whether there was a unanimous decision. But it happened nonetheless.

The positive is that Sant Samaj got 30 seats in the SGPC, which is necessary if you wish to improve parchar of Gurmat in Panjab. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji saw this as well. You have to have good Sikhs in the SGPC to make it effective.

Harnam Singh is nothing and doesn't even deserve to be shot dead by a Singhs gun. The bullet would serve a higher purpose in target practice.

how colourful this world is!!! When weasels talk of bullets and guns. but would soil their knickers if they saw one in real life, let alone use it.

[panther]

Chatanga veer u make some good points that i'll be honest i didn't consider when i posted but i still don't get why Akal Takht and Harnam Singh Dhumma are not standing up for the rights of the poor Sikhs that have been abused by the Radha Soami Dera? That's what I don't like most. Then he flip-flops about if Sant Jarnail Singh Khalsa are shaheed or not. Plus Dhumma was sitting on a stage with Izhar Alam. What was that you were saying about Bhai Amrik Singh watching a Miss Pooja show? That seems crazy

[zoltansingh]

Baba Harnam Singh is humble, in that he takes everything Amrik Singh says and doesnt say anything back, as he doesnt wish to get involved in a war of words with him.

He has no need to say anything when he has followers to defame others:

Maybe these same Panthic bodies could ask Bhai Amrik Singh why, when the people of waraich village asked him to remove the 3 saroops of Guru Granth Sahib, because there was no-one there to do the sewa of them, why he removed only 1 saroop and left the other 2 there?

Maybe they could also ask him why he went to a Raksha poonia program some days ago, why he kept quiet watching that miss pooja thing shake her thang at religious program? Maybe it was the RS 20 000 that he was given to shut his mouth?

So in the eyes of you "clever, righteous 13", where Nawab Kapoor Singh a traitor? or Sultan ul Quam Jassa Singh Ahluwalia a traitor? The other Sikhs Sardars of that era? Bhai Sukha Singh Ji?

Give it a break, there was not an inch on Baba Jassa Singh Ahluwalias body that was without a battle scar. Which battles has Dhumma been involved with? After the Ludhiana shootings he openly said in interviews that he would take on the Badal sarkar. Less than a year later he backtracked and was doing everything to please the Badals.

Please do not compare great Gursikhs like Baba Jassa Singh Ji with Dhumma ever again. Don't try to throw mud on their glorious legacy just to protect the illogical pandering to the Badals by Dhumma.

The positive is that Sant Samaj got 30 seats in the SGPC, which is necessary if you wish to improve parchar of Gurmat in Panjab. Sant Jarnail Singh Ji saw this as well. You have to have good Sikhs in the SGPC to make it effective.

Yes those 30 members have made a lot of difference. LOL. Amrik Su kar sewa still has SGPC projects alloted to him even though he was caught with his pants down (using donations to buy land and gold for his bit on the side). Have the Samaj SGPC members raised this as an issue? NOPE. What isues have they raised? NONE!