Jathedar Baba Hanuman Singh Ji Shaheed

[Into the Light]

Adding to the point of proactive jee, western born Nihangs very often say they don't recognize Akal Takhts authority because they claim that rightfully the Akal Takht belongs to them not the SGPC appointed Jathadar. Fine, but then why did Baba Santa Singh Ji seek khima to his Bhul at the same Akal Takht Jathadar who is appointed by the same SGPC that they don't recognize. Some statements by western Nihangs just don't add up.

The answer given is for the ekta (unity) of the panth...but my question back is always, why wasn't Baba Santa Singh thinking about ekta/unity when the dharam yudh morcha was taking place?

My personal opinion is that Baba Santa Singh DID consider himself to be the rightful Jathedar of Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib, hence he would never have gone to get Tankha. I beleive he was coerced to do so by Baba Balbir Singh to ensure he (Balbir Singh) was recognised as the next jathedar of Budha Dal by SGPC, but this could only happen if Budha Dal was recognised once again by the panth, so this could only happen if Baba Santa Singh went pesh. So in my opinion and may others from the Dal panth, is that they beleive Baba Santa Singh was actually forced to go pesh and him going pesh would never have happened if it wasn't for his ill health and Baba Balbir Singh's control over him physically.

Baki Maharaaj jane!

[Jonny101]

The answer given is for the ekta (unity) of the panth...but my question back is always, why wasn't Baba Santa Singh thinking about ekta/unity when the dharam yudh morcha was taking place?

My personal opinion is that Baba Santa Singh DID consider himself to be the rightful Jathedar of Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib, hence he would never have gone to get Tankha. I beleive he was coerced to do so by Baba Balbir Singh to ensure he (Balbir Singh) was recognised as the next jathedar of Budha Dal by SGPC, but this could only happen if Budha Dal was recognised once again by the panth, so this could only happen if Baba Santa Singh went pesh. So in my opinion and may others from the Dal panth, is that they beleive Baba Santa Singh was actually forced to go pesh and him going pesh would never have happened if it wasn't for his ill health and Baba Balbir Singh's control over him physically.

Baki Maharaaj jane!

Thanks for this clarification. Why did Baba Balbir Singh have control over Baba Santa Singh Ji?

[Into the Light]

Thanks for this clarification. Why did Baba Balbir Singh have control over Baba Santa Singh Ji?

Balbir Singh was Baba Santa Singh's Garvaee Singh (close attendant) and did his seva...some say that when Baba Santa Singh became ill, Balbir Singh is supposed to have forcefully taken control of property through forced thumb prints and so he took control over Budha Dal by force. Today, some accept him as Jathedar out of fear/greed/apathy, while others have boycotted him. Hence why you now have Baba Surjeet Singh also being seen as the Jathedars of Budha dal and his absence while in jail, it is Baba Joginder Singh (Rakba).

[proactive]

Balbir Singh was Baba Santa Singh's Garvaee Singh (close attendant) and did his seva...some say that when Baba Santa Singh became ill, Balbir Singh is supposed to have forcefully taken control of property through forced thumb prints and so he took control over Budha Dal by force. Today, some accept him as Jathedar out of fear/greed/apathy, while others have boycotted him. Hence why you now have Baba Surjeet Singh also being seen as the Jathedars of Budha dal and his absence while in jail, it is Baba Joginder Singh (Rakba).

Which makes it even worst. From being a Mahanpurush who made a mistake to being a Mahanpurush who were forced to go and de Pesh at Akal Takht! Whichever way you play it, ekta, coercion or just plain treachery, Santa Singh's role in 1984 will be embarrassing for Nihangs for many years to come.

[N30S1NGH]

I am not all that surprised after all. Punjabi tribalism (fake anakh, land greed, money, power, abuse) all have crept into all sikh jathebandhiyas and samparda. You study any samparda or jatha either there is ruala rappa of gaddi or zamin raula...there is always one problem or another directly/indirectly related to punjab tribalism.!!!

Sikhs who go to sikh jathebandiyas and samparda with vidya learning and to get peace of mind need to understand- a minute sikh from abroad start scratching politics within samparda or jatha dera they putting themselves in a very dangerous position..stay away from it..you can get killed over it in punjab!!..many sikhs in samparda or jatha are highly influenced by punjabi tribalism, all that sweet talk of gurmat sidhant will go off to window a minute they realize you could be hindrance in their path for getting power you are off the grid..!!

Its for that vary reason, its extremely imperative to fix society/mindset in punjab first than issues in the panth. As soon as soceity in punjab as whole is fixed, all the problems in the panth will automatically get fixed as those who are in authority themselves are victim of punjab tribalism which is much more venomous and much more broader problem in punjab than anything else..!!

[chatanga]

If we compare this to the point in history, when Sardar Jassa Singh Ramgarhia was excommunicated frmn the Panth, over a transgression, even thought he went to to the point of allying with the oppressive govt forces, when he realised his mistake, and asked for forgiveness then the Panth forgave him and accepted him back in to the Panth.

Baba Santa Singh did gadari, but we have to accept that he was accepted back into the Panth.

[Cisco_Singh]

How much gadari has been done by handing over control of akal takht to spgc by the singh sabhias and being chelas of the British ? We have the removal of the sri Guru Dasam Granth from Harmandir sahib, the over zealous editing of Sing historical Granths and baani due to lack of understanding, the complete loss of traditional Sikh martial heritage weaponry and martial prowess, the loss of traditional raag vidiya and gurmat sangeet with the ferenghi vvaja European harmonium becoming the central instrument in kirtan... traditionally Buddha dal were the acknowedged fifth faith, panjvah takht. You can argue sgpc announced damdana sahib as a fifth takht to undermine the position of Buddha dal historically.

[lsingh]

How much gadari has been done by handing over control of akal takht to spgc by the singh sabhias and being chelas of the British ? We have the removal of the sri Guru Dasam Granth from Harmandir sahib, the over zealous editing of Sing historical Granths and baani due to lack of understanding, the complete loss of traditional Sikh martial heritage weaponry and martial prowess, the loss of traditional raag vidiya and gurmat sangeet with the ferenghi vvaja European harmonium becoming the central instrument in kirtan... traditionally Buddha dal were the acknowedged fifth faith, panjvah takht. You can argue sgpc announced damdana sahib as a fifth takht to undermine the position of Buddha dal historically.

I suppose you would have liked to have kept the pro British Mahants in control of the Gurdwaras who drank and smoked and kept prostitutes. I am surprised at this revisionist history, look at the Nankana Sahib massacre, the Jaito morchas, how many Sikhs became shaheed at the hands of the pro British mahants.

You sound like the people who say the Jews were responsible for the holocaust.

[proactive]

How much gadari has been done by handing over control of akal takht to spgc by the singh sabhias and being chelas of the British ? We have the removal of the sri Guru Dasam Granth from Harmandir sahib, the over zealous editing of Sing historical Granths and baani due to lack of understanding, the complete loss of traditional Sikh martial heritage weaponry and martial prowess, the loss of traditional raag vidiya and gurmat sangeet with the ferenghi vvaja European harmonium becoming the central instrument in kirtan... traditionally Buddha dal were the acknowedged fifth faith, panjvah takht. You can argue sgpc announced damdana sahib as a fifth takht to undermine the position of Buddha dal historically.

Wow, I didn't know the Singh Sabha was guilty of so many crimes! I think you forgot to mention that Bhai Vir Singh or Giani Ditt Singh were the second shooters on the grassy knoll in November 1963! I doubt you've even read or studied anything about the Singh Sabha and most of what you wrote above is the bukwas you can cut and paste from the n.ang website or the rantings of your 'guru' the so-called Last Sikh Warrior! I'm surprised your didn't back up your above 'facts' witha quote from a tape interview with some so and so Baba in 1999 or 2001 who said so and so. That's what the website you got your rant from above offers as evidence or proof.

Nobody handed the Akal Takht to the SGPC, they took it when the pujaris ran off rather than accept the parshad of the lower caste Sikhs. maybe you would like the Pujaris back, you would like idols on the parkarma?

This bit below of your post was the most amusing because the so-called Panjvan takht could only have come about in the 1920s.

traditionally Buddha dal were the acknowedged fifth faith, panjvah takht.

Now read the following-;

Up Until the late 19th Century only One Takht, the Akal takht existed. All political decisions effecting the Sikhs were decided there by the process known as Sarbat Khalsa.

The most important aspect of a takht is it's decision making and decision enforcing aspect. This was always done at the Akal Takht. This is done through a Hukumnama.

Hazur Sahib was not considered a takht until the 1920's. In a letter written in 1901 to endorse Bhai Kahan Singh's book 'Hum Hindu Nahin', the Pujaris refer to the place as Sri Hazur Abchalnagar Sahib. There is no mention of it being a Takht. Although the Gurdwara at Muktsar sent a Hukumnama as endorsement of the book and refers to Muktsar Sahib as Bada Darbar Sahib and as a Takht.

Sri Keshgarh Sahib was under the control of the Sodhis for a long time upto the 1920's. Although they also sent Hukamnamas but only in the late 1880's and not before that.

The Harmandir Sahib as Patna refered to itself as takht Darbar Hazur Sri Harmadir Sahib in a Hukumnama to Bihari Sikhs in the villages around Kantnagar in 1862.

So the contention is this. Upto about 1862 no 'Takht' other than Akal takht issued a Hukumnama or declared itself to be a Takht. Akal takht was the only takht in existence from 1606 until 1862. Other places started to issued Hukumnamas and to refer to themselves as Takhts only in the last 140 years or so. It was only with the Akali movement in the 1920's that the other three Takhts of Keshgarh Sahib, Patna Sahib, Hazur Sahib were recognised. So for the Nihangs to now have a 'fifth' takht it follows that it must be only since the 1920's that they have been referring to themselves as such.

[chatanga]

How much gadari has been done by handing over control of akal takht to spgc by the singh sabhias and being chelas of the British ?

This same sentence always comes up, but I have never been able to work out how the SS Lehar were chelas of the british. Maybe you can explain this further cisco bhaji?

We have the removal of the sri Guru Dasam Granth from Harmandir sahib, the over zealous editing of Sing historical Granths and baani due to lack of understanding, the complete loss of traditional Sikh martial heritage weaponry and martial prowess, the loss of traditional raag vidiya and gurmat sangeet with the ferenghi vvaja European harmonium becoming the central instrument in kirtan... traditionally Buddha dal were the acknowedged fifth faith, panjvah takht. You can argue sgpc announced damdana sahib as a fifth takht to undermine the position of Buddha dal historically.

Now this i agree with.