Bhagat Jaidev ji : sudarshan chakra kirya meditation

[savinderpalsingh]

It will all make sense. Keep an open mind. Stop being anti-hindu/anti-yoga/anti-mystical/anti-mythism, etc.

Everything has it's place.

Shabad Meaning.jpg

second that

its hard to fill a cup that is already full, as no matter how much you pour into it , it will all spill out

try to empty it and only then you can fill it

[DSGj]

You don't have faith in your Guru you need yoga .....

Sikhs of Guru are so weak now days they need Yoga.

Stop twisting things. NO ONE said that Sikhs NEED yoga. Not even once in this topic did anyone say that.

Like I said:

A Sikh does not NEED "yoga". Not at all, not ever.

You're not understanding one thing.

The Naam is not being obtained through the yoga technique.

The Naam is already there, and Naam Abhiaas is being done through a yoga technique.

No one is saying that the yoga will give you Naam.

The Naam is already there. The Abhiaas is just being done through slightly diffferent technique than others.

Everyone has their technique of Naam Abhiaas.

Some do fast, some do slow, some do singing, some do Svaas Svaas, etc.

Stop having such extreme views and stop putting yourself on a pedestal to look down on others.

Naam in itself is yoga. It's just the technique you use can vary amongst one's personal preference and what works for them. You can't put Naam Abhiaas into a cookie-cutter mold.

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=890

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=1084

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

Stop having such extreme views and stop putting yourself on a pedestal to look down on others.

You provide liink which doesnot say yoga can help in naam abhiaas but but what is yoga for sikhs I will enlighten you

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਨ ਕਉ ਭੋਗ ਜੋਗ ॥

Har Kaa Naam Jan Ko Bhog Jog ||

हरि का नामु जन कउ भोग जोग ॥

The Name of the Lord is the enjoyment and Yoga of His servants.

You should read entire sukhmani baani before providing the link, what it says about simran. Yoga of bhajna yogi is yoga of hindu yogis.

Did you ever say this

It is amazing how far the missionary/kala-afghana/tarksheel approach has affected the mindsets of today's Sikhs. Keep an open mind.

There is a difference between the following:

1. Yoga for health maintenance/gain, lifetime gain, yoga for attempt to gain 'powers', etc.

and

2. Yoga for increasing concentration and focusing/concentrating on Naam/Shabad/Dhunee/Vahiguru/Oankaar

ਜੋਗ ਸਿਧ ਆਸਣ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਏ ਭੀ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥

Jog Sidhh Aasan Chouraaseeh Eae Bhee Kar Kar Rehiaa ||

He practices the eighty-four postures of Yoga, Siddhas, but he gets tired of practicing these.

ਵਡੀ ਆਰਜਾ ਫਿਰਿ ਫਿਰਿ ਜਨਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਉ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਗਹਿਆ ॥੬॥

Vaddee Aarajaa Fir Fir Janamai Har Sio Sang N Gehiaa ||6||

He lives a long life, but is reincarnated again and again; he has not met with the Lord. ||6||

You provided links I am with specific quote, If anyone says yoga for health maintance it is simple because Our Guru also have the same view. Just once do sahaj paath you will certainly know, its all love and surrender needed in Guru's feet not yoga to concentrate on naam. Gurbani says remember him everytime,24 hours, what ever you do just always have his name on your tongue Gurbani quote is for you

ਨਾਮਾ ਕਹੈ ਤਿਲੋਚਨਾ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਸੰਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥

Naam Dayv answers, O Trilochan, chant the Lord's Name with your mouth.

ਹਾਥ ਪਾਉ ਕਰਿ ਕਾਮੁ ਸਭੁ ਚੀਤੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੨੧੩॥

With your hands and feet, do all your work, but let your consciousness remain with the Immaculate Lord. ||213||

If followers of bhajana yogi have respect and love for Guru they won't misquote Gurbani, my stand still remains they know what they are doing and ego is ridding their behaviour.

[Only five]

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

Chaupaee ॥

चौपई ॥

CHUPAI

19611 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੧

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਕੋ ਡਿੰਭ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ॥ ਲੋਗਨ ਮੂੰਡ ਅਧਿਕ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

Je Je Jaga Ko Dianbha Dikhaavi ॥ Logana Mooanda Adhika Sukhu Paavi ॥

जे जे जग को डि्मभ दिखावै ॥ लोगन मूंड अधिक सुखु पावै ॥

Those who exhibit different guises, find disciples and enjoy great comforts.

19622 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨

ਨਾਸਾਂ ਮੂੰਦ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਮੰ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਨ ਕਉਡੀ ਕਾਮੰ ॥੫੭॥

Naasa Mooanda Kare Paranaaman ॥ Phokatta Dharam Na Kaudee Kaaman ॥57॥

नासां मूंद करे प्रणामं ॥ फोकट धरम न कउडी कामं ॥५७॥

Those who their nostrils and perform prostrations, their religious discipline is vain and useless.57.

19633 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੩

ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਜਿਤੇ ਜਗ ਕਰਹੀਂ ॥ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਭੀਤਰ ਤੇ ਪਰਹੀਂ ॥

Phokatta Dharam Jite Jaga Karaheeaaʼn ॥ Naraka Kuanda Bheetara Te Paraheeaaʼn ॥

फोकट धरम जिते जग करहीं ॥ नरक कुंड भीतर ते परहीं ॥

All the followers of the futile path, fall into hell from within.

19644 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੪

ਹਾਥ ਹਲਾਏ ਸੁਰਗ ਨ ਜਾਹੂ ॥ ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਜੀਤ ਸਕਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਾਹੂ ॥੫੮॥

Haath Halaaee Suraga Na Jaahoo ॥ Jo Manu Jeeta Sakaa Naheeaaʼn Kaahoo ॥58॥

हाथ हलाए सुरग न जाहू ॥ जो मनु जीत सका नहीं काहू ॥५८॥

They cannot go to heavens with the movement of the hands, because they could not control their minds in any way. 58.

19655 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੫

[Singh559]

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

Chaupaee ॥

चौपई ॥

CHUPAI

19611 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੧

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਕੋ ਡਿੰਭ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ॥ ਲੋਗਨ ਮੂੰਡ ਅਧਿਕ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

Je Je Jaga Ko Dianbha Dikhaavi ॥ Logana Mooanda Adhika Sukhu Paavi ॥

जे जे जग को डि्मभ दिखावै ॥ लोगन मूंड अधिक सुखु पावै ॥

Those who exhibit different guises, find disciples and enjoy great comforts.

19622 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨

ਨਾਸਾਂ ਮੂੰਦ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਮੰ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਨ ਕਉਡੀ ਕਾਮੰ ॥੫੭॥

Naasa Mooanda Kare Paranaaman ॥ Phokatta Dharam Na Kaudee Kaaman ॥57॥

नासां मूंद करे प्रणामं ॥ फोकट धरम न कउडी कामं ॥५७॥

Those who their nostrils and perform prostrations, their religious discipline is vain and useless.57.

19633 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੩

ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਜਿਤੇ ਜਗ ਕਰਹੀਂ ॥ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਭੀਤਰ ਤੇ ਪਰਹੀਂ ॥

Phokatta Dharam Jite Jaga Karaheeaaʼn ॥ Naraka Kuanda Bheetara Te Paraheeaaʼn ॥

फोकट धरम जिते जग करहीं ॥ नरक कुंड भीतर ते परहीं ॥

All the followers of the futile path, fall into hell from within.

19644 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੪

ਹਾਥ ਹਲਾਏ ਸੁਰਗ ਨ ਜਾਹੂ ॥ ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਜੀਤ ਸਕਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਾਹੂ ॥੫੮॥

Haath Halaaee Suraga Na Jaahoo ॥ Jo Manu Jeeta Sakaa Naheeaaʼn Kaahoo ॥58॥

हाथ हलाए सुरग न जाहू ॥ जो मनु जीत सका नहीं काहू ॥५८॥

They cannot go to heavens with the movement of the hands, because they could not control their minds in any way. 58.

19655 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੫

Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Sahib

[DSGj]

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

Chaupaee ॥

चौपई ॥

CHUPAI

19611 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੧

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਕੋ ਡਿੰਭ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ॥ ਲੋਗਨ ਮੂੰਡ ਅਧਿਕ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ ॥

Je Je Jaga Ko Dianbha Dikhaavi ॥ Logana Mooanda Adhika Sukhu Paavi ॥

जे जे जग को डि्मभ दिखावै ॥ लोगन मूंड अधिक सुखु पावै ॥

Those who exhibit different guises, find disciples and enjoy great comforts.

19622 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੨

ਨਾਸਾਂ ਮੂੰਦ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਮੰ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਨ ਕਉਡੀ ਕਾਮੰ ॥੫੭॥

Naasa Mooanda Kare Paranaaman ॥ Phokatta Dharam Na Kaudee Kaaman ॥57॥

नासां मूंद करे प्रणामं ॥ फोकट धरम न कउडी कामं ॥५७॥

Those who their nostrils and perform prostrations, their religious discipline is vain and useless.57.

19633 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੩

ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਜਿਤੇ ਜਗ ਕਰਹੀਂ ॥ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਭੀਤਰ ਤੇ ਪਰਹੀਂ ॥

Phokatta Dharam Jite Jaga Karaheeaaʼn ॥ Naraka Kuanda Bheetara Te Paraheeaaʼn ॥

फोकट धरम जिते जग करहीं ॥ नरक कुंड भीतर ते परहीं ॥

All the followers of the futile path, fall into hell from within.

19644 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੪

ਹਾਥ ਹਲਾਏ ਸੁਰਗ ਨ ਜਾਹੂ ॥ ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਜੀਤ ਸਕਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਾਹੂ ॥੫੮॥

Haath Halaaee Suraga Na Jaahoo ॥ Jo Manu Jeeta Sakaa Naheeaaʼn Kaahoo ॥58॥

हाथ हलाए सुरग न जाहू ॥ जो मनु जीत सका नहीं काहू ॥५८॥

They cannot go to heavens with the movement of the hands, because they could not control their minds in any way. 58.

19655 ਦਸਮ ਗਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੧ ਪੰ. ੫

The above doesn't apply in this topic.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ ਬਾਣੀ ਜੈਦੇਉ ਜੀਉ ਕੀ

ਚੰਦ ਸਤ ਭੇਦਿਆ ਨਾਦ ਸਤ ਪੂਰਿਆ ਸੂਰ ਸਤ ਖੋੜਸਾ ਦਤੁ ਕੀਆ ॥

The breath is drawn in through the left nostril; it is held in the central channel of the Sushmanaa and exhaled through the right nostril repeating the Lord's Name sixteen times.

ਅਬਲ ਬਲੁ ਤੋੜਿਆ ਅਚਲ ਚਲੁ ਥਪਿਆ ਅਘੜੁ ਘੜਿਆ ਤਹਾ ਅਪਿਉ ਪੀਆ ॥੧॥

I am powerless; my power has been broken. My unstable mind has been stabliized, and my unadorned soul has been adorned. I drink in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||1||

ਮਨ ਆਦਿ ਗੁਣ ਆਦਿ ਵਖਾਣਿਆ ॥

Within my mind, I chant the Name of the Primal Lord God, the Source of virtue.

ਤੇਰੀ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਦ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਸੰਮਾਨਿਆ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

My vision, that You are I are separate, has melted away. ||1||Pause||

ਅਰਧਿ ਕਉ ਅਰਧਿਆ ਸਰਧਿ ਕਉ ਸਰਧਿਆ ਸਲਲ ਕਉ ਸਲਲਿ ਸੰਮਾਨਿ ਆਇਆ ॥

I worship the One who is worthy of being worshipped. I trust the One who is worthy of being trusted. Like water merging in water, I merge in the Lord.

ਬਦਤਿ ਜੈਦੇਉ ਜੈਦੇਵ ਕਉ ਰੰਮਿਆ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਨਿਰਬਾਣੁ ਲਿਵ ਲੀਣੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੨॥੧॥

Says Jai Dayv, I meditate and contemplate the Luminous, Triumphant Lord. I am lovingly absorbed in the Nirvaanaa of God. ||2||1||

You were quick to bold the following:

ਨਾਸਾਂ ਮੂੰਦ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਮੰ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਨ ਕਉਡੀ ਕਾਮੰ ॥੫੭॥

ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਜਿਤੇ ਜਗ ਕਰਹੀਂ ॥ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਭੀਤਰ ਤੇ ਪਰਹੀਂ ॥

Yet if you go deep into Shabad Veechar (your favourite), you would see that those things listed (yoga, postures, discipline, etc) are ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ because ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਜੀਤ ਸਕਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਾਹੂ ...because they could not control their minds in any way by doing those movements/actions....as those things were all just an empty show/ritual.

Yet, in the Shabad/topic in this thread, it is all about having the mind controlled and having Prem and Bhagti and Naam/Simran and merging with Satguru and enjoying Amrit Ras.

Big difference Veer Jee.

Someone doing Simran (with love/concentration/along with virtuous lifestyle) by focusing on Oankaar/Naam/Vahiguru through a yoga technique is definitely not ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ... especially if it brings them closer to Satguru and Sikhi and improves their Bhagti and assists with their Ik Man Ik Chit concentration on Satguru.

[tuhintuhin]

In Japji Guru Nanak ji clears " jor jugat na choote sansaar" yoga practises are jukti to control one's mind it can't help you in liberation,

waheguru ji why are you distorting Gurbani.........it's not "jor jugat na choote sansar"....and BTW why didn't you copy paste this one like you always do?????????????

Gurbani says ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੁਗਤੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ every pankti has many meanings......Gramatical aspect should not be ignored.......

ਜੋਰੁ ਨ ਜੁਗਤੀ, ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ - meaning.......one can't attain liberation / mukti by force or power......or by doing any other stuff like yoga like sidh-jogis used to do / sraadh / pakhand..........

Second one, ਜੋਰੁ ਨ, ਜੁਗਤੀ ਛੁਟੈ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ॥ - liberation can't be attained by force or power but by "the technique" and this technique or jugti is "simran / meditation" (Sant Baba Isher Singh Ji Rarha sahib)

everyone must watch / listen to Giani Thakur singh ji's santheya of Gurbani.....

here's another example......"Saadh ke sang nahi kich ghaal" from sukhmani sahib,,,,

"Sadh ke sang, nahi kish ghaal"........you don't have to work hard if you do sangat of sadhu mahapurkh

secondly "sadh ke sang nahi, kish ghaal" - this one I heard from Sant Baba Gurdev Singh ji Nanaksar wale, to whom Sant Baba Isher Singh ji Kalerawale gave his duties.....meaning just mere sitting by mahapurkhs wouldn't get you anything, you have to work hard....

Now this second meaning doesn't mean that one should not do mahapurkh's sangat........this is their nimrata.....many people will not respect and love mahapurkh from heart but will sit with them for the sake of name-fame and so-called "chaudhar"......this kind of sangat won't get you anything.....

that's why mahapurkh sangat is important because we get to realiize deeper meanings of what Gurbani tells us as our own "dimaag" is not that grown-up yet......

sorry to take the topic off topic...but it was important.....

Yoga is good only until it's followed the gurmat way.....if it's followed to too much extent like sidh / jogis tried to do by closing all 9 dwars forcefully to open 10th...won't work.....

everything has 2 aspects......good and bad......

[Only five]

You were quick to bold the following:

ਨਾਸਾਂ ਮੂੰਦ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਮੰ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਨ ਕਉਡੀ ਕਾਮੰ ॥੫੭॥

ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਜਿਤੇ ਜਗ ਕਰਹੀਂ ॥ ਨਰਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਭੀਤਰ ਤੇ ਪਰਹੀਂ ॥

Yet if you go deep into Shabad Veechar (your favourite), you would see that those things listed (yoga, postures, discipline, etc) are ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ because ਜੋ ਮਨੁ ਜੀਤ ਸਕਾ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਾਹੂ ...because they could not control their minds in any way by doing those movements/actions....as those things were all just an empty show/ritual.

Yet, in the Shabad/topic in this thread, it is all about having the mind controlled and having Prem and Bhagti and Naam/Simran and merging with Satguru and enjoying Amrit Ras.

Big difference Veer Jee.

Someone doing Simran (with love/concentration/along with virtuous lifestyle) by focusing on Oankaar/Naam/Vahiguru through a yoga technique is definitely not ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ... especially if it brings them closer to Satguru and Sikhi and improves their Bhagti and assists with their Ik Man Ik Chit concentration on Satguru.

Let's do this by looking at each Shabad. The Shabad by Bhagat Jaidev ji Maharaj is saying something deeper than meets the eye, but lets move to the Dasam Bani Shabad which I posted, since at the moment we do not see eye to eye on the first one. Can you explain what this tuk is saying by going into each word and defining it:

ਨਾਸਾਂ ਮੂੰਦ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਮੰ

I have other shabads on this topic, we can look at but its best to look at one and then go to the next shabad. And if you want............to keep the biased posters out we can do this over private message and then make a new topic out of it. Just in case some over zealous chelas of a order get to excited. I think it will be best over pm.

[DSGj]

Let's do this by looking at each Shabad. The Shabad by Bhagat Jaidev ji Maharaj is saying something deeper than meets the eye, but lets move to the Dasam Bani Shabad which I posted, since at the moment we do not see eye to eye on the first one. Can you explain what this tuk is saying by going into each word and defining it:

ਨਾਸਾਂ ਮੂੰਦ ਕਰੇ ਪ੍ਰਣਾਮੰ

I have other shabads on this topic, we can look at but its best to look at one and then go to the next shabad. And if you want............to keep the biased posters out we can do this over private message and then make a new topic out of it. Just in case some over zealous chelas of a order get to excited. I think it will be best over pm.

Hahahaha, your last paragraph is funny..."over zealous chelas of an order"...loll :biggrin2:

No problem Veer Jee, pm sounds good.

Much respect, even though we have slightly different thinking on first Shabad, I think by the looks of it, most likely we have similar thinking on the second Shabad.

Even the first Shabad as we have discussed before, I see where you are coming from and totally get it.

[N30S1NGH]

I can't believe this is still on going..alas(kash) if same energy or passion could be spent on contemplating on naam/simran transcending through energies within body/self enquiry than simply discussing semantics over this..we all could get somewhere...!!