Amrit Sanchar for & by the women

[Guest Guest]

There is a S.O.S message by a Bibi which compelled me to start the topic.

http://www.akj.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8074&sid=a831afa267d048469aa88662d2bcea3e#_thread

Don't know whether she's talking about herself or husband's lover.

Irrespective she needs help.

So is there any other solution except having Bibi's do Seva of Punj Piyaras.

Don' t want to sound racist but can't put it any other way - did white+black Sikhs have an Amrit Sanchar with one or two Bibi's doing Seva of Punj Piyaras ?

[Questioner]

Do you need to go pesh because you've committed a kurehit or do you just need some advice?

One of my unmarried friends had a knee operation and went to the panj for peshi..they asked why she had come and she told them but they also asked her whether she had had any physical relations..so they do discuss it with bibia and I think that they will realise that it is serious if you've gone out of your way to seek their advice at an amrit sanchaar.

Also, I don't think they're naive enough to think that kaam only affects men..it does seem to affect men to a greater extent but it takes two to tango so I think they know that it isn't just men that struggle. If you really can't go and see them and you haven't committed a kurehit, maybe speak to a knowledgeable bibi that you trust? I think generally though, we need to wake up and be more aware of how kaam affects girls and deal with it early on.

With regards to the original poster, I don't think women only amrit sanchaars will ever be a thing (in the near future anyway). We can't even decide on having one woman in the panj pyaareh, there's no way you'll get 5 bibia to conduct an amrit sanchaar without serious problems.

I have not committed a kurrehit but there are lower levels of kaam that still feel like they leave dark marks on your soul. It's so much easier for a man to go to his panj and talk about this, but for a woman it's virtually impossible. If I had committed a kurrehit, I would go to them, but I don't feel right talking about the other issues of kaam to them. Speaking to an elder Gursikh about what you've done would feel very wrong, let a lone speaking to five men.

"I think generally though, we need to wake up and be more aware of how kaam affects girls and deal with it early on."

And I agree with this. It's something that has never ever been spoken about amongst women, Gursikh women, as a problem. But we all know it is. It's just such a taboo to talk about, so women don't get advice or help.

[N30S1NGH]

I would advise join sangat of eldery senior gurmukhs..i know in my local gurdwara there is a group of women who do sukhmani sahib patt together every sunday at the nanaksar gurdwara- be regular in the sangat, the problem will go away gradually if it does not, causually ask for help during conversation....i would also highly advise take hakumnama from sri guru granth sahib ji and sleep on hakumnama updesh all the way.

To be honest not all issues (especially one above) can be discussed with panj pyares of today specially when precedence of quality of being in panj pyare seva is been set these days- every joe blow wants to do panj pyare di seva without looking at the chivalry/ their jevan behind it.. its not what it used to be, so lets not make it ritualistic that one must go there despite of students are not comfortable as in this case it would be all males. Advise should be seeked on the premises of individual jevan rather than garb/role taken by individual at that moment.

Allthough not directly to this topic, please listen to following small 4 minute audio book katha of updesh given by sant attar singh ji reru sahib wale to sant isher singh ji rara sahib wale.

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/68877-doubt-on-getting-naam-jugti-reru-sahib-mahapursh-updesh/

[GurujisDaughter]

It might be hard. But in my opinion, when Singh/Singhnia become panj peyaare, they are not the same people with same minds anymore while they perform seva. It together is the roop of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Even thought some bibia may think it's hard to talk, but if they recognize they are talking to God not 5 men, it might be easier. Also, I am sure people if they did kurehet do ardaas for forgiveness too. If they can do Ardaas to Akaaal Purakh, why should there be uncomfort in talking to the same Akaal Purakh roop?

[GurujisDaughter]

.

[luckysingh99]

It might be hard. But in my opinion, when Singh/Singhnia become panj peyaare, they are not the same people with same minds anymore while they perform seva. It together is the roop of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. Even thought some bibia may think it's hard to talk, but if they recognize they are talking to God not 5 men, it might be easier. Also, I am sure people if they did kurehet do ardaas for forgiveness too. If they can do Ardaas to Akaaal Purakh, why should there be uncomfort in talking to the same Akaal Purakh roop?

That is how it is supposed to be in reality.

The panj are meant to signify the Guru and his order so that when you approach them with such issues, they should respond approrpriately just like Guruji would.

The problem in reality is that the Panj are just ordinary dudes in the week and doing ordinary jobs/business in the week.

A bibi sees the Pnaj on the weekend to do pesh and then a few days later she's buying some atta from a desi store and one of the weekend panj is seliing it to her !!!

What do we do here ???

Would it be better to have the catholic confession box similarity where you remain 'unanimous' ?????

[Gurpreet14]

Dad......... Please change the existing system...... Y women again is targeted to perform kureit o v 99%. ......... Hey guys out there u r not only the pure one....... If u respect sikhi start respecting ur sisters n mothers.......n one thing people talk about kureit which singhnia performs......one of those is related to the cutting of pubic hair when she gives birth to Child....now if a person consider this as kureit than u men do not deserve to b born...... Har gal je kureit lagni tuwanu.....then I request my dad to make those khalsas who have some intellectual knowledge.....

Dad do something....,.,,

[DSGj]

Dad......... Please change the existing system...... Y women again is targeted to perform kureit o v 99%. ......... Hey guys out there u r not only the pure one....... If u respect sikhi start respecting ur sisters n mothers.......n one thing people talk about kureit which singhnia performs......one of those is related to the cutting of pubic hair when she gives birth to Child....now if a person consider this as kureit than u men do not deserve to b born...... Har gal je kureit lagni tuwanu.....then I request my dad to make those khalsas who have some intellectual knowledge.....

Dad do something....,.,,

Don't pull out the emotional-manipulation card.

"Cutting of pubic hair when woman gives birth to a child".....have you ever even done research on this topic or even talked to a doctor about this?

Read the following links and you will see the answer for yourself.

1. http://forum.baby-gaga.com/about307483.html
2. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071012132024AA5iBuf
3. http://myobsaidwhat.com/2012/07/13/its-nice-that-you-keep-it-cleaned-up-down-here/
4. http://community.babycenter.com/post/a12010785/pubic_hair_during_delivery
5. http://community.babycenter.com/post/a11988045/interesting_question_-_possibly_tmi

[DSGj]

What ever maharj did was right. There were no women for a reason. We don't know the reason. i have to say the 2pyare are good singhs of high spirits, rab roop. We dont have to be shy from them, tell them everything like a brother. We cannot try to change the maryada to see what fits us, if the sikh women in todays society are doing wrong things then they either ask for muwafi or deal with the guilt. WE are the problem, not the fact that Guru Gobind Singh Jee only had 'Singhs' as the 5 payare-that is not the problem.

^ Very good!

A shame that the Panj Pyare are being viewed as "a couple of men" rather than the authority of Guru Gobind Singh Himself...

^ Very good point!

when Guruji ask for 5 heads, odon 5 male hi utthe c! this is the reason why 5 pyaare are alwys men...

There were only 5 males there? Yeah right...there were hundreds of people there at minimum, including women. But it was 5 men who came forward to greet the sword with their head. I understand what you are trying to say though, nice observation!

"To be honest not all issues (especially one above) can be discussed with panj pyares of today specially when precedence of quality of being in panj pyare seva is been set these days- every joe blow wants to do panj pyare di seva without looking at the chivalry/ their jevan behind it..its not what it used to be,"

^ I don't know where these Amrit Sanchars are happening....(but I know what you are talking about..such as reading the Bani from Gutka Sahib instead of from heart, only reading short version of Anand Sahib, etc)....but it is up to the Amrit seeker to also be somewhat-aware of the Jeevan of the Panj Piaarey or at least trust the selection process that Guru Sangat has put in place. AKJ has very high level standards and process of Amrit Sanchar...so let's not make blanket statements taking people's faith in Panj Piaarey away. AKJ selection of Panj Piaarey is very inspirational and amazing.

And if you are having trouble with Kaam, then read Charitropakhiaan :smile2: .....

You guys keep on saying Dad this...Dad that....

well....first at least read what Dad wrote...

Oh yeah, I forgot, some of you can't even believe/accept that Dad wrote that stuff for you to learn from.....

Hypocritical?

On one hand you are begging for advice and the advice is there for you in front of your eyes....on the other hand you completely reject it.

Nice....

[Gurpreet14]

Don't pull out the emotional-manipulation card. "Cutting of pubic hair when woman gives birth to a child".....have you ever even done research on this topic or even talked to a doctor about this? Read the following links and you will see the answer for yourself.

• http://forum.baby-gaga.com/about307483.html
• http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071012132024AA5iBuf
• http://myobsaidwhat.com/2012/07/13/its-nice-that-you-keep-it-cleaned-up-down-here/
• http://community.babycenter.com/post/a12010785/pubic_hair_during_delivery
• http://community.babycenter.com/post/a11988045/interesting_question_-_possibly_tmi

When I took amrit some lady came there to do peshi for the same reason......n I was shocked to know this........

Dad. .......whateva u did was right.....but ur rules are not carried forward properly today....... This ridiculous men dominated society