is dhunda doing katha in delhi gurudwara anymore?

[GPS]

UK = The answer to your question is "NO" Waljinder Paji

UK = The reason is I do not have even 0.1% of the knowledge of Gurbani as Giani Sher Singh Ji. Meri ehni aukath nai haii ke maii ohna de saamnay gal kar'rah. I respect each and every sincere Giani within the Panth that is propagating Sikhi.

UK = However, as Sikhs we owe loyalty only to Akaal Purakh and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj so having a differing interpretation to respected Giani Sher Singh Ji on 1% of matters does not entitle others to define such people like myself as non-Sikhs.

UK = However, i'm happy to discuss the issue if you will kindly join a petition to declare SikhSangat a neutral forum on the matter. Until such point that open debate can occur there is really no point discussing the topic further. However, allegations about me on a personal level feel free and I will gladly hit them for six :-)

UK = I do believe that it is in the interests of the Panth for scholars (of which I am not - i am just a random Sikh on an internet forum) to thrash out this issue for the forward benefit of the Panth at Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

At least you can go and listen to him.You will not accept this as you do not live in London and is not even a sikh.This i say after evaluating your posts.

For sikhs not only Guru Granth shaib but all our scriptures, history and traditions demand loyalty. Lack of belief in any of them debars us to be claimed as a sikh.

[GPS]

GPS = I do not think he lives in London.

UK = LoL funny

GPS = I have big doubts about his identity as is distorting definition of panth and says all kabir panthis ... are sikhs.

UK = Kabirpanthi's are Sikh. You wish to define them outside of Sikhi purely because it's suit your agenda to see the Panth with as small a population as possible.

GPS = I have big doubts about his identity as ... says rather all Indians are sikhs

UK = Wrong again Paji, I have never said that all Indians are Sikhs. However, I do not believe that 80% of Indians are Hindu. I believe that is a politically convenient RSS lie. I believe that all Dalits and all the poor and oppressed people living under the state of India are spiritually Sikh, just that through lack of parchaar they do not yet realise. They day people know about Sikhi, I strongly believe that this RSS lie that 80% of India is so-called Hindu will disintegrate and there will be a massive increase in the demographic force of the Sikh Panth.

GPS = He does not seem to know that kabir panthis have other granth of kabir sahib whose contents are not in line with Gurmat.

UK = They accept Shabad Guru as within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Until people like yourself started opposed Dr Ambedkar's initiation into the Khalsa Panth for exactly the same reasons as you have just trotted out, all Kabirpanthi's used to bow down before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Thanks to people like yourself that situation has changed over time because of a lack of engagement from the Panth.

GPS = If he is a real person, he should gladly accept your humble invitation.

UK = See my reply to Waljinder above. One thing I'm pretty sure of Giani Sher Singh Ji wouldn't run to mods to prevent discourse.

UK = True GurSikhs are never afraid of what they believe in.

Anyone who go to a Gurudwara sahib bow to Guru Granth sahib ji irrespective of religious affiliation. Kabir panthis are not sikhs as they have belief in Kabir's granths. They do not maintain sikh appearance. Can you tell me how a sikh looks like? Their otehr granth is anti Gurmat. For you cigarette smoking sindhis who believe in Hindu deities are also sikhs.

Did not you say that? You said that. That means you have no belief in sikh code of conduct.

[UKLondonSikh]

GPS = Uklondonsikh, I just forget to rebut one of your baseless accusations.You wrote how can Guru sahib write charitropakhayan at age of 9.

UK = That's right Waljinder Singh Paji said he heard that in katha from some BrahmGiani Mahapurash.

GPS = When you were shown that he was 30 when he wrote charitropakhayan.

UK = That's what you stated to contradict Waljinder Singh's Mahapurash. I myself believe Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji was battling solely for Sarbat Da Bhala at the time. Attacks against Guru Sahib were constant from the Mughals in one form or another. When there were lull periods Guru Sahib was fully engaged in propagating Gurmat for Sarbat Da Bhala by seeing to the needs of the poor, addressing the wretched Hindu+Muslim caste society of the time, working upon propagating Sikhi and controlling certain wrecthed Masands to name but a few of the priorities Guru Sahib were focussed upon.

GPS = Charitropakhayan was completed in 1696 AD as written in text itself.

UK = That's your belief and I respect your entitlement to that belief

GPS = First you blame another singh that you heard from him.

UK = I did not say that I agreed with the false allegation regarding 9years of age. I would expect every GurSikh to be equally horrified by such an allegation.

GPS = After that you write how can he write it in 1696 AD as he was fighting dilawer khan at that time.

UK = Yes I do believe Guru Sahib was engaged in the greater battle for Sarbat Da Bhalla of which defending the innocent from the attacks of Dilawar Khan's wretched son and the subsequent Mughal attacks under Aurangzeb's son from the central forces from Delhi. I'm no historian but you expose your weak knowledge of Sikh history by being unaware of this. First you were seemingly unaware of the attacks upon Anadpur Sahib prior to 1699 and then you even went to the whimsical extent of claiming that Khemu Bedi was somehow a great Sikh who founded the brilliant Singh Sabha. Unfortunately, you didn't realise that Khemu Bedi founded the Sanatan Singh Sabha. Just because he advocated things you support re this matter you knee-kerk supported him without knowledge of his history.

GPS = First of all dilawer khan never came personally to Anandpur sahib. He sent his son to fight Guru ji in 1695 AD.

UK = I'm afraid I pointed that out before you. Aurangazeb did not need to fight personally in order to mastermind an attack either.

GPS = Charitropakhayan was completed in 1696.

UK = That date is your belief and I respect your entitlement to your belief.

UK = How long is your estimate of how long it took to write prior to completion? Given that Charitropakhiyan comprises about a third of the volume.

UK = If JK Rowling completes a Harry Potter book in 1996, are you open to the possibility that it might take an author a year or more to write on occcasion?

UK = As you well know Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji was battling solely for Sarbat Da Bhala at the time. Attacks against Guru Sahib were constant from the Mughals in one form or another. When there were minor lull periods Guru Sahib was fully engaged in propagating Gurmat for Sarbat Da Bhala by seeing to the humanitarian needs of the poor, hungry and unhealthy, addressing the wretched Hindu+Muslim caste society of the time, working upon propagating Sikhi and controlling certain wrecthed Masands are to name but a few of the priorities Guru Sahib were focussed upon.

[UKLondonSikh]

The best way to look at what their parchar consists of is to look at darshoo's video in Pune, Maharastra (RSS capital) where he is trying to incite RSS and hindus against Dasam Granth Sahib by saying look this Granth has exposed your avtars for being what they really are.

UK = Singh559 Paji i have to agree with you if that's what he said. I haven't seen the video myself yet. But that is wrong. Rama (Chander) and Krishna did get drunk and that's well exposed even in their Mahabharata (though conveniently whitewashed on the small screen).

he is inciting the Hindu commandos by saying look how insulting Dasam Bani is to your avtars.

UK = I agree with you Jonny Paji. That is just plain wrong to go running to non-religionists who have nothing to do with this matter. It's a shame because prior to that I actually thought he was sincere in his convictions. It would be wrong to subsequently assume that others who are still Amritdhari GurSikhs today want anything to do with the RSS given the destruction these wretched enemies of the Panth have unleashed on us in cahoots with Indira. Given that both sides (who are both sincere) have a common enemy in the RSS that makes it all the more puzzling as to why certain people are so keen to disunity even when facing the RSS (by declaring even those who have 100% loyalty to Sikhi as non-Sikhs and atheists).

[Singh559]

UK = Singh559 Paji i have to agree with you if that's what he said. I haven't seen the video myself yet. But that is truly wrong. Rama (Chander) and Krishna did get drunk and that's well exposed even in their Mahabharata (though conveniently whitewashed on the small screen.

UK = I agree with you Jonny Paji. That is just plain wrong to go running to non-religionists who have nothing to do with this matter.

There is a video of it on panthic.org.

I think you've been sold a lot of propaganda based off of paranoia. That's what these missionaries do (they aren't educated) - they lack worldly and spiritual gian. In the panth they're spiritually nalaik and in the world they have barely passed 5th grade.

Please go to Giani Sher Singh Ji's katha and get anand. I wish I could go and learn something, you're in the UK so you should take advantage...

[GPS]

GPS = Uklondonsikh, I just forget to rebut one of your baseless accusations.You wrote how can Guru sahib write charitropakhayan at age of 9.

UK = That's right Waljinder Singh Paji said he heard that in katha from some BrahmGiani Mahapurash.

GPS = When you were shown that he was 30 when he wrote charitropakhayan.

UK = That's what you stated to contradict Waljinder Singh's Mahapurash. I myself believe Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji was battling solely for Sarbat Da Bhala at the time. Attacks against Guru Sahib were constant from the Mughals in one form or another. When there were lull periods Guru Sahib was fully engaged in propagating Gurmat for Sarbat Da Bhala by seeing to the needs of the poor, addressing the wretched Hindu+Muslim caste society of the time, working upon propagating Sikhi and controlling certain wrecthed Masands to name but a few of the priorities Guru Sahib were focussed upon.

GPS = Charitropakhayan was completed in 1696 AD as written in text itself.

UK = That's your belief and I respect your entitlement to that belief

GPS = First you blame another singh that you heard from him.

UK = I did not say that I agreed with the false allegation regarding 9years of age. I would expect every GurSikh to be equally horrified by such an allegation.

GPS = After that you write how can he write it in 1696 AD as he was fighting dilawer khan at that time.

UK = Yes I do believe Guru Sahib was engaged in the greater battle for Sarbat Da Bhalla of which defending the innocent from the attacks of Dilawar Khan's wretched son and the subsequent Mughal attacks under Aurangzeb's son from the central forces from Delhi. I'm no historian but you expose your weak knowledge of Sikh history by being unaware of this. First you were seemingly unaware of the attacks upon Anadpur Sahib prior to 1699 and then you even went to the whimsical extent of claiming that Khemu Bedi was somehow a great Sikh who founded the brilliant Singh Sabha. Unfortunately, you didn't realise that Khemu Bedi founded the Sanatan Singh Sabha. Just because he advocated things you support re this matter you knee-kerk supported him without knowledge of his history.

GPS = First of all dilawer khan never came personally to Anandpur sahib. He sent his son to fight Guru ji in 1695 AD.

UK = I'm afraid I pointed that out before you. Aurangazeb did not need to fight personally in order to mastermind an attack either.

GPS = Charitropakhayan was completed in 1696.

UK = That date is your belief and I respect your entitlement to your belief.

UK = How long is your estimate of how long it took to write prior to completion? Given that Charitropakhiyan comprises about a third of the volume.

UK = If JK Rowling completes a Harry Potter book in 1996, are you open to the possibility that it might take an author a year or more to write on occcasion?

UK = As you well know Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji was battling solely for Sarbat Da Bhala at the time. Attacks against Guru Sahib were constant from the Mughals in one form or another. When there were minor lull periods Guru Sahib was fully engaged in propagating Gurmat for Sarbat Da Bhala by seeing to the humanitarian needs of the poor, hungry and unhealthy, addressing the wretched Hindu+Muslim caste society of the time, working upon propagating Sikhi and controlling certain wrecthed Masands are to name but a few of the priorities Guru Sahib were focussed upon.

If you say something stand for it like a man and do not blame others. You did write that he was battling Dilawer khan.Do you refute that? If so i will make effort and show it to you.

Hindu hill chiefs were one who were not liking Guru sahib leave aside that they accepted his preaching.It is they who called aurangzeb and first major battle of Guru sahib at Anandpur sahib was in 1701 known as First battle of Anandpur sahib.Beofre that there were minor battles and Dilawer was not stationed at delhi.He was goeverning Lahore.

In first battle of anandpur Painde khan was killed. If you are not well versed in history then do not claim so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Anandpur

The First Battle of Anandpur was fought at Anandpur, between the armies of the Sikh Guru Gobind Singh and the Mughal forces aided by the Rajas of the Sivalik Hills. The battle is dated 1701 by most author

[GPS]

UK = Singh559 Paji i have to agree with you if that's what he said. I haven't seen the video myself yet. But that is wrong. Rama (Chander) and Krishna did get drunk and that's well exposed even in their Mahabharata (though conveniently whitewashed on the small screen).

UK = I agree with you Jonny Paji. That is just plain wrong to go running to non-religionists who have nothing to do with this matter. It's a shame because prior to that I actually thought he was sincere in his convictions. It would be wrong to subsequently assume that others who are still Amritdhari GurSikhs today want anything to do with the RSS given the destruction these wretched enemies of the Panth have unleashed on us in cahoots with Indira. Given that both sides (who are both sincere) have a common enemy in the RSS that makes it all the more puzzling as to why certain people are so keen to disunity even when facing the RSS (by declaring even those who have 100% loyalty to Sikhi as non-Sikhs and atheists).

Is rama mentioned in Mahabharata as well? I am lost now. I thought only Ramayan related to him.RSS is not a bigger enemy for us as they are identified as an enemy and we can counter them as they are visible.Akal Takhat has banned to have any link with them.It is their agents posing as sikhs and missionaries we have to be careful.

There is a video of it on panthic.org.

I think you've been sold a lot of propaganda based off of paranoia. That's what these missionaries do (they aren't educated) - they lack worldly and spiritual gian. In the panth they're spiritually nalaik and in the world they have barely passed 5th grade.

Please go to Giani Sher Singh Ji's katha and get anand. I wish I could go and learn something, you're in the UK so you should take advantage...

Do people make posts in UK at 2 AM?

[GPS]

UKlondonsikh writes though wrongly that Guru sahib did not have time to write bani. Uklondon ji Guru sahib was a great literary figure and patronized 100 poets in his court. If he had time for this he definitely had time to write bani.Bani was not written in one month or one year.It took many years to complete Dasan Granth sahib.

The battles he fought with Dilawer khan's son are described in His autobiography Bachitra Natak.

Lala Daulat ram, a historian, commented on the following verse of Guru sahib as unparalleled in world history as its wording is so powerful.

khag khand bihandan khal dal khandan at ran mandan barbandan,

bhuj dand akhandan tej parcandan jot amahdan bhan prabhan,

Sukh santa karnann durmat darnah kilbikh harnan as sarnan,

jai jai jag-karan, srist ubaran mam pritparan, jai tegan.

The sword it is that cuts al] evil, branch and root; The sword it is that destroys all satanic troops;

Its sway over evil makes life's battle impressive and grand;

I t is the indestructible symbol of justice in His hands.

Shining in splendour and ablaze with such a glow That its radiance dims even the light of Apollo,

Saviour of the saints, Destroyer of wicked minds, Dispeller of sins, I take refuge in Thee of supreme sword.

Glory, glory unto Thee, O Creator and first cause, Glory, glory unto Thee, Saviour of this earthly globe. Thou art my protector and my sustainer; Glory, glory junto Thee, O supreme sword.

Bachitra natak

By the way Lala daulat ram was an arya samaji himself.But he spoke the truth.

[UKLondonSikh]

Ladli = aint no one afraid to debate uklondonsikh, the bani your questioning on here (bachitar natak) i listen to everyday,

UK = Paji, with the greatest of respect, I doubt that I have any opposition the exact parts you listen to every day.

i've had numerous debates on bachitar natak, in past 2013 iv had 0, reason being i don't even look at the faces of those doubting gurbani,

UK = Paji i respect your viewpoint. If Radha Swami say Guru Sahib said something but you felt that same utterance was anti-Gurmat, would you not shout at the top of your lungs to contest such an accusation? Now as we're not debating this issue in depth due to the Moderators instructions let's just say that my benti to you is to see that others with full faith in Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj might see something in a different light. The important thing is that we never lose fundamental Panthic Unity as a consequence. We all want that Jatt Sajjan Kumar dead, right?

Ladli = you don't believe in dasam bani to be guru gobind singh ji maharajs thats why you think you are not doubting what guru gobind singh ji maharaj has said,

UK = I believe in 100% of Bani wriiten by Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj to be the 100% truth.

ladli = either way if my believing in bachitar natak is manmat, yes equally yours not believing is manmat as well,

UK = Ladli Paji your shardha is something I respect. I am not a better Sikh than you Bhai Sahib. What i would like you to open to is the possibility that there are others within the Panth, who wish we could have been blessed enough to fight under Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj ... but who may have a different opinion on a certain matter.

Ladli = i personally have found 0 positive outcomes while discussing bachitar natak specifically with those questioning it,

UK = True Bhai Sahib. Face to face I would not raise this topic with you or soemthing equally contentious like meat (which I don't eat either) as nothing would be gained from it. But this is an internet forum in order to broaden our knowledge and I merely responded to comments I disagreed with. I do apologise for hurting your feelings but I hope you see where I'm coming from and my love for you as a fellow brother within the Panth is not lessened by one iota because of what you believe on this matter. I just you can see people like myself as being allies and brothers within the Panth ready to fight alongside you (rather than as atheists and non-Sikhs to be excommunicated)

Ladli = my comment was straight to mods, seen this too many times with the same user, still hold same message to mods to not hold back on certain people questioning bani,

UK = As you alluded to above Paji, one's man truth (such as the Quran which is meant to be God's own words) might not be accepted by another to be by the author in question. Surely, we as a Panth, have the maturity to agree to politely disagree on this issue and stand shoulder to shoulder where it matters in ending drugs and alcohol consumption in Punjab, stopping female foeticide, uniting bakhre bakhre Gurdwara in pushing Sikhi out of the limited goeography of Majha and Malwa.

Ladli = baki i suggest you find proper arths and like others said meet giani sher singh, listin to katha on bachitar natak

UK = Agreed Paji, anyone that is a sincere Sikh and truly interested in the Truth can only learn by listening to the opposing viewpoint

Ladli = dont take no ones silence as a weakness of lack of vichar... staying away from what i perceive as nindaks is best option

UK = I agree with what you say Paji and I respect that position you hold. But sometimes justifying a position could turn a skeptic into a believer.

Ladli = though i won't shy away from atleast asking mods to take further action on those continously question gurbani (what is most impt to me in life).

UK = Fair enough you're entitled to do that Paji. But declaring this forum neutral on the issue would actually clear up more misconception than shutting down debate. The Truth is the Truth. The more people on here think that a certain viewpoint is not allowed to be expressed openly, the more they will search out information on the same. Censorship doesn't really work in the age of the Internet. So if matters could be discussed with pyaar and satkaar then maybe a lot of people would be lifted out of "ignorance" as you might perceive it. Remember the Christians, Hindu's and Muslims have a lot worse to says about us, so the more intellectually prepared we are to defend our positions on the basis of logic, the more prepared we are as a Panth to deal with our adversaries.

Ladli = Not engaging is also a desicion and many times a hard one cuzz its tempting to bring points down, but iv grown into the habbit of what i call letting people keep themselves busy in their own shankas,

UK = i 100% respect the viewpoint you hold in the sentence above.

Ladli = though its also impt to make an effort to keep such people away from the younger sikhs

UK = Paji I give you my word that every single opinion I hold, I do so because i believe in it with respect to the Chardi Kallah of the Panth going forward.

Ladli = ...getting some action taken on a user is seperate from not being able to vichar, lets see how above mentioned vichar by other users on has changed any views, a endless foolish cycle, takes 1 questioner to create shanka and mislead the newer ones to sikhi...baaki like i said i dont find it proper to deal with such frequent questioners of dasam bani esp those whoes real views could be more extreme.

UK = Paji the truth is undefeatable. Sikhi cannot be stopped by any human force on the planet. Because Sikhi and the ideology of Sarbat Da Bhala is the 100% truth. But different interpretations exist within Sikhi and like N30Singh Paji often said, Unity in Diversity is a strength - rather than a weakness.

Ladli = yes it would be weakest answer to you

UK = No Paji this reply you gave wasn't no weak answer. In fact I could see your sincerity as a GurSikh from the reply you gave.

Ladli = as im asking mods to take further action on you,

UK = Fair enough Paji. A Sikh has to stand by what he believes in so I can't complain if you feel that way.

Ladli = not engaging was my choice and not why i commented, only commented to suggest mods to not turn a blind eye to such people, others as well.

UK = The only idea I can possibly suggest Paji is if you feel I am hurting your feelings on any particular post, hit me on pm and I will try to see if I can put my point so that it will cause a sincere GurSikh like you less offence. VJKK VJKF

[GPS]

UK = The only idea I can possibly suggest Paji is if you feel I am hurting your feelings on any particular post, hit me on pm and I will try to see if I can put my point so that it will cause a sincere GurSikh like you less offence. VJKK VJKF

How did sajjan Kumar into this? UK london let us have some guidelines for debating the topic and not beat about bush wasting our time.

You have PMd me already in the beginning when i defended sacred bani of Guru sahib to mellow me down. You did not talk about Dasam bani at all in that PM. All you were saying we are this we are that.I do not believe in PMs.

If you are so keen to forward your anti Dasam bani agenda, set a date and we will debate it live with videography.let me know.No PM business with hardened gurnindaks.

Giani sher singh is there in London.take time to go and talk to him. Do you agree? If so i can contact sher singh ji for an audience with you.

UK wrote

UK = Paji the truth is undefeatable. Sikhi cannot be stopped by any human force on the planet. Because Sikhi and the ideology of Sarbat Da Bhala is the 100% truth. But different interpretations exist within Sikhi and like N30Singh Paji often said, Unity in Diversity is a strength - rather than a weakness.

My response

No human can interpret bani with his limited mind>Gurbani is mantra first as it is a word of God revealed through Guru sahibs. One has to believe in it absolutely.