is dhunda doing katha in delhi gurudwara anymore?

[Jonny101]

He is taking cover of Dhundha to widen that rift. He has another agenda also. He says whole India is sikh. People who smoke and believe in Hinduism are also sikhs. He gives arguement that sikhs number will rise. That is what RSS says that all those living in India are primarily Hindus and for that they say Hinduism is not a religion but primarily Indian civilization.His opposition to Dasam Granth sahib is primarily rooted in their design that this granth teaches sikhs to resist tyranny and infuses Bir Rass for dharam yudh ka chao.

If you say as Ladli fauj said that there is no debate on scriptures then he calls us taliban.

The thing I could not understand is when Guru Granth Sahib ee's bani does not agree with his thinking proving miracles have occurred he says you are taking it too literal yet he himself will take Dasam bani too literal and refuse to accept Dasam bani in proper context.

[GPS]

The thing I could not understand is when Guru Granth Sahib ee's bani does not agree with his thinking proving miracles have occurred he says you are taking it too literal yet he himself will take Dasam bani too literal and refuse to accept Dasam bani in proper context.

You might have noticed that he was not only rejecting miracles but also casting doubts if Guru Sahib went to Mecca.Per him there is no proof for that. This is what you term as mine is better than yours.

[Singh559]

(rest of parts are in related)

(rest of parts are in related)

[UKLondonSikh]

GPS = RSS, arya samaj does not say that.

UK = Actually the Arya Samaj do exactly that GPS Paji. Arya Samaj agree with you GPS Paji that Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj is a descendent of Rama (Chander) Thanks for clarifying that you agree with them. RSS and Shiv Sena agree with them and you on this point and you know that.

GPS = Arya samaj says that Bhagauti in Dasam Granth sahib is devi durga.

UK = I despise Arya Samaj so maybe you should work on ironing out their misconceptions rather than accusing Amritdhari Gursikhs of being non-Sikhs and atheists.

GPS = You have not been able to show me a single line from Dasam Granth that says that these Rama and krishna are revered.

UK = As you know I cannot discuss this subject properly with you as Moderators are deleting my posts and i will get banned if I debate it with you properly. However, never have I stated that Rama and Krishna are revered. I have said that Hinduism's Rama Chander is elevated by association with the greatest of the great -Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj

GPS = They are condemned in Dasam Granth sahib in the strongest possible language.

UK = Nobody in the pro-Gurmat camp has any problem with condemnation of figures who have zero relavance to Sikhi

GPS = Have you any line that reveres these deities in Dasam Granth sahib.

UK = My opposition to certain parts is not based on reverence for deities, I have stated to you before what I have trouble with but I won't repeat it here now due to Mod Paji's instructions. If you wanna hit the topic in full i suggest you raise a petition to Mods that SikhSangat maintain a neutral position on the issue, so that we can debate it openly. If my viewpoint is locked down or in handcuffs we can hardly discuss this properly. Nevertheless, I will answer each and every one of your off topic allegations as I 100% have faith in Sikhi and I believe your stance is wrong for the future of Sikhi as you are determined to make a smaller and smaller demographic force.

GPS = That is why when darshan Ragi went to their hq in Nagpur, said that Dasam granth is very critical of Hindu avtars as it shows Krishna as taking liquor in Dasam granth sahib. So he was paying lip service to his bosses of RSS.

UK = I wholly disgaree with him for doing that and it planted seeds of doubt in my mind about him, if that story was 100% true as reported. I haven't seen the video and I am aware that the panthic website is against anyone that maintains that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj alone is to bowed down to.

UK = Krishna is well known to have been totally drunk in the Mahabharata so why anyone would object to truths about anicient Kings is beyond me. A Sikh can learn next to nothing from such royalty. The only true royalty that we can learn is Maharaj Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

[Singh559]

[Singh559]

Sant Singh Maskeen intellectually and spiritually speaking slaps all who doubt bani.

[UKLondonSikh]

Waljinder = Uklondon, as you claim to live in the Uk, do you have the guts to meet and discuss with Giani Sher Singh ji Ambala ?

UK = The answer to your question is "NO" Waljinder Paji

UK = The reason is I do not have even 0.1% of the knowledge of Gurbani as Giani Sher Singh Ji. Meri ehni aukath nai haii ke maii ohna de saamnay gal kar'rah. I respect each and every sincere Giani within the Panth that is propagating Sikhi.

UK = However, as Sikhs we owe loyalty only to Akaal Purakh and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj so having a differing interpretation to respected Giani Sher Singh Ji on 1% of matters does not entitle others to define such people like myself as non-Sikhs.

UK = However, i'm happy to discuss the issue if you will kindly join a petition to declare SikhSangat a neutral forum on the matter. Until such point that open debate can occur there is really no point discussing the topic further. However, allegations about me on a personal level feel free and I will gladly hit them for six :-)

UK = I do believe that it is in the interests of the Panth for scholars (of which I am not - i am just a random Sikh on an internet forum) to thrash out this issue for the forward benefit of the Panth at Sri Akal Takht Sahib.

[UKLondonSikh]

GPS = I do not think he lives in London.

UK = LoL funny

GPS = I have big doubts about his identity as is distorting definition of panth and says all kabir panthis ... are sikhs.

UK = Kabirpanthi's are Sikh. You wish to define them outside of Sikhi purely because it's suit your agenda to see the Panth with as small a population as possible.

GPS = I have big doubts about his identity as ... says rather all Indians are sikhs

UK = Wrong again Paji, I have never said that all Indians are Sikhs. However, I do not believe that 80% of Indians are Hindu. I believe that is a politically convenient RSS lie. I believe that all Dalits and all the poor and oppressed people living under the state of India are spiritually Sikh, just that through lack of parchaar they do not yet realise. They day people know about Sikhi, I strongly believe that this RSS lie that 80% of India is so-called Hindu will disintegrate and there will be a massive increase in the demographic force of the Sikh Panth.

GPS = He does not seem to know that kabir panthis have other granth of kabir sahib whose contents are not in line with Gurmat.

UK = They accept Shabad Guru as within Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Until people like yourself started opposed Dr Ambedkar's initiation into the Khalsa Panth for exactly the same reasons as you have just trotted out, all Kabirpanthi's used to bow down before Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Thanks to people like yourself that situation has changed over time because of a lack of engagement from the Panth.

GPS = If he is a real person, he should gladly accept your humble invitation.

UK = See my reply to Waljinder above. One thing I'm pretty sure of Giani Sher Singh Ji wouldn't run to mods to prevent discourse.

UK = True GurSikhs are never afraid of what they believe in.

[UKLondonSikh]

to add, we do this path in rehras sahib

UK = Tuhintuhin Ji for the avoidance of doubt I have never raised any issue about Sri Chaupai Sahib - which I have full reverence for just as much you do

[GPS]

UK = As you know I cannot discuss this subject properly with you as Moderators are deleting my posts and i will get banned if I debate it with you properly. However, never have I stated that Rama and Krishna are revered. I have said that Hinduism's Rama Chander is elevated by association with the greatest of the great -Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj

My response:

No not at all. If you happen to be a sodhi, can you claim belonging to King rama chander's family.Understand structure of caste affiliations in India. He has refuted these so called devtas in the strongest language.And also condemned caste consideration.Did not you read what i posted.

ਜੇ ਜੇ ਸਹਿਤ ਜਾਤਨ ਸੰਦੇਹਿ ॥ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕੋ ਸੰਗਿ ਨ ਛੋਡਤ ਨੇਹ ॥

जे जे सहित जातन संदेहि ॥ प्रभ को संगि न छोडत नेह ॥

Those who consider the castes illusory, they do not abandon the love of the Lord.

Bachitra natak, Dasam granth

.

UK = Nobody in the pro-Gurmat camp has any problem with condemnation of figures who have zero relavance to Sikhi

Response

They are only condemned in Dasam Granth sahib in a language not found anywhere else.Guru sahib writes about Krishna if you consider yourself an avtar how come you came from stomach of devki. That is why this granth is at hit list of RSS and they have their agents posing as sikhs to create confusion. You have no knowledge how to evaluate a scripture how can you claim it is not from guru sahib especially when we have two manuscripts compiled by him in 1698 that are still around.

UK = My opposition to certain parts is not based on reverence for deities, I have stated to you before what I have trouble with but I won't repeat it here now due to Mod Paji's instructions. If you wanna hit the topic in full i suggest you raise a petition to Mods that SikhSangat maintain a neutral position on the issue, so that we can debate it openly. If my viewpoint is locked down or in handcuffs we can hardly discuss this properly. Nevertheless, I will answer each and every one of your off topic allegations as I 100% have faith in Sikhi and I believe your stance is wrong for the future of Sikhi as you are determined to make a smaller and smaller demographic force.

Response

Some Hindu devtas have faces of animals and that is unbelievable. Have you found any Hindu refuting that.

Religion is a matter of faith and i do not find fault with them in observing their faith.

We have allowed you enough freedom here even though religious texts are above introspection by human minds.The idea was to expose your ignorance of picking random lines and quote them literally out of context. No religious forum allows that freedom.Religious scriptures are word of God and are to be believed.If you do not believe in them then find another religion, if you claim to be a sikh.

.

UK = I wholly disgaree with him for doing that and it planted seeds of doubt in my mind about him, if that story was 100% true as reported. I haven't seen the video and I am aware that the panthic website is against anyone that maintains that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj alone is to bowed down to.

My response

Videos are there and still you think that it may not be true. Whom are you folling here. Watch videos and see how he is doing bukwas instigating Hindus that Dasam Granth is derogatory towards your Gods. What a sham?

UK = Krishna is well known to have been totally drunk in the Mahabharata so why anyone would object to truths about anicient Kings is beyond me. A Sikh can learn next to nothing from such royalty. The only true royalty that we can learn is Maharaj Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

My response

Tell that to your friends Ragi and missionaries if you are aware of that.In Dasam Granth sahib Krishna is shown as a coward who is unable to fight against guru ji's created warrior Kharag singh.

Episode of Kharag singh in Krishna avtar of Dasam Granth is creation of Guru sahib and not found in any hindu puranas. Muslims come to aid of Krishna including shiva , Brahma, pathans, pandus etc but are unable to tame Kharag singh who also fights without head. This is the character created by Guru sahib in his bani which as sacred for us as much as SGGS ji as this is granth of khalsa.