Sarbat Statement On Uk Same Sex Marriage Bill

[sarbat 1]

Gurfateh Ji

Please find attached the Sarbat (LGBT Sikhs) statement on the UK Same Sex Marriage Bill (PDF).

Incase of difficulty opening the attachment, the text version is below.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sarbat

Sarbat statement on the UK Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill

We at Sarbat are delighted to see the second reading of the Marriage (Same Sex
Couples) Bill overwhelmingly voted in favour by a majority of MPs (400 to 175).

The Bill will extend the legal form of marriage to lesbian, gay and bisexual couples and
permit religious groups to perform such marriages should they wish.

This is an important step towards equality for same sex couples. An overwhelming majority
of the public now favour allowing same sex couples to marry, and support has increased
rapidly. Most people now agree that it will strengthen, and not weaken the institution of
marriage.

Sarbat actively promotes the rights of LGBT Sikhs. The Sikh faith enshrines equality for all
and it does not discriminate against gay men or women who wish to make a life-long
commitment to each other.

We believe that there is no room for discrimination within our community for being who we
are. Indeed, Sikhism being a progressive religion, built upon the fundamental principle of
“all being equal” – any such discrimination would be going against Sikhi itself.

There is no reason why a committed Sikh couple should not be allowed to get married in a
Gurdwara. The Lavaan (Sikh Wedding Hymns) are also non-gender specific, and so
same-sex marriage is possible within the Sikh Dharam. However, most Gurdwaras (Sikh
places of worship) in the current time would be reluctant to conduct a same-sex marriage
because of an edict made by the Jathedar (Leader) of the Akal Takht in 2005 which
banned same sex marriages.

Sarbat’s view is that this guidance is flawed. It is based more on cultural and personal
bias, rather than on a view of Gurbani (holy scriptures). Furthermore, the guidance issued
is contrary to Sikh teachings.

This statement is not in the spirit of his appointment, which is to promote Sikhi values and
principles and to issue guidance and statements that are rooted in Sikhi. We invite the
Jathedar Sahib to issue a clarification of his original statement, explaining what Sikh
principles and teachings he draws on to reach his conclusion.

The Jathedar has been heavily criticised in the past for making ill-judged comments. The
case of the Delhi rape victim in December 2012, being one such example.

We remain optimistic that, this most basic of human rights, will be recognised by the larger
Sikh community.

Sarbat is a social and support group for and by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered
Sikhs. We offer a platform for like-minded Sikhs from all walks of life, and aim to promote
the LGBT Sikh cause in a fair and courteous manner.

Sarbat

Sarbat Statement on UK Marriage Bill 2013.pdf

[genie 1,422]

Sikhi values and gay sexuality are not compatible. If you want to be gay by all means be gay and lesbian but dont try to claim you are Sikhs and they are one and the same. If we as a community go down this road of accepting gays as Sikhs then the case can be made for other sexual abnormalities such as pedophiles and animal sex lovers... you at sarbat believe in equality for all.... then how can anyone discriminate against those abnormal and sexual deviant people? you cant unless you want to be hypocrites.

Bottom line is Sikh scriptures clearly state a man marries a woman explicitly and does not state the case for man can marry a man or woman marry a woman. So case closed sarbat gay Sikhs who number probably just a dozen individuals vs 800,000 strong Sikh community making it a non-issue for Sikhs we got more imrportant issues as a community to deal with. Sarbat gays really needs to grow up and stop trying to meddle in Sikh religious matters.

[Jonny101 4,066]

Sarbat Jee, homosexuality is not compatible with Sikhi. You have totally misunderstood Gurmat Sidhaants. Since the start Gurmat has always advocated Grishti jeevan between a man and woman. Humans by nature are born with all sorts of urges and weaknesses. But Gurmat teaches Sikhs not to indulge and give in to those urges and weaknesses. Sikhs are taught to adopt rehit, meditate on Naam, read/hear Gurbani whilst controlling those urges and weaknesses. Those who indulge in wordly urges and human weaknesses end up in the cycle of life and death(charasee lakh joons)

[VanHelsingh 1,975]

They're also human beings with hearts and minds like the rest of us, who feel an affinity for the Sikh faith like us.

I'd be lying if I said I was totally on-board with the homosexual manifesto (a bit dramatic but :lol2: ), but a bit of understanding from where they're coming from would be nice. Although a gay Anand Karaj is pushing it a bit far for my tastes.

[singh598 471]

In man there is woman, in woman there is man. Only the enlightened ones understand this. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Page 879)

[Jonny101 4,066]

In man there is woman, in woman there is man. Only the enlightened ones understand this. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib Page 879)

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਰੱਖਣ ਵਾਲੇ! ਵੇਖ ਅਚਰਜ ਖੇਡ ਕਿ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਵੀਰਜ ਤੋਂ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਜੰਮਦੇ ਹਨ।

This tukh is in support of Grasti Jeevan between man and woman because Guru jee is saying here that if these two genders are not together then procreation cannot happen.

[singh598 471]

ਪੁਰਖ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਨਾਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਗਿਆਨੀ ॥

ਅਰਥ: ਹੇ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨਾਲ ਡੂੰਘੀ ਸਾਂਝ ਰੱਖਣ ਵਾਲੇ! ਵੇਖ ਅਚਰਜ ਖੇਡ ਕਿ ਮਨੁੱਖਾਂ ਦੇ ਵੀਰਜ ਤੋਂ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਪੈਦਾ ਹੁੰਦੀਆਂ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀਆਂ ਤੋਂ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਜੰਮਦੇ ਹਨ।

This tukh is in support of Grasti Jeevan between man and woman because Guru jee is saying here that if these two genders are not together then procreation cannot happen.

The shabad is actually referring to the concept of shiv and shakti but your point is valid

[Jonny101 4,066]

The shabad is actually referring to the concept of shiv and shakti but your point is valid

Shiv Shakti, I guess that's a way of looking at this tukh. Furthur thought on this, I would have to disagree that it means Shiv Shakti, because Purkh and Naar here are plural not singular implying men and women not man and woman. But I get your point.

[Dev1975 75]

Sikhi values and gay sexuality are not compatible. If you want to be gay by all means be gay and lesbian but dont try to claim you are Sikhs and they are one and the same. If we as a community go down this road of accepting gays as Sikhs then the case can be made for other sexual abnormalities such as pedophiles and animal sex lovers... you at sarbat believe in equality for all.... then how can anyone discriminate against those abnormal and sexual deviant people? you cant unless you want to be hypocrites.

Bottom line is Sikh scriptures clearly state a man marries a woman explicitly and does not state the case for man can marry a man or woman marry a woman. So case closed sarbat gay Sikhs who number probably just a dozen individuals vs 800,000 strong Sikh community making it a non-issue for Sikhs we got more imrportant issues as a community to deal with. Sarbat gays really needs to grow up and stop trying to meddle in Sikh religious matters.

Whenever there's a discussion about homosexuality this argument is always brought up. Being gay and being a paedophile/zoophile are not the same and do not fall under the same category. One is between consenting adults, the other involves a non-consenting party, not to mention being illegal.

[S1ngh 1,660]

July 6, 2009

The Akal Takht, the highest temporal seat of Sikhism is of the firm view that Delhi High Court judgment on gay relationships could ruin the society as this was against the tenets of all religions.

Reacting to the judgement on Saturday, Takht Jathedar Gian Gurbachan Singh said the Sikh religion or for that matter any religion did not permit sexual relations between individuals of the same sex.

"This is a very serious matter and against religious codes and ethics, "he said while appealing to the Sikhs against maintaining relations with the same sex.

"Any Sikh, baptised, non-baptised or one who believes in the Guru Granth Sahib, need not be influenced by the court judgement and should always refrain from establishing gay relationships," he said.

An edict issued from Akal Takht nearly four years ago had not only prohibited Sikhs from being involved in gay relationships but had described such a relationship as 'anti religious'. This edict was issued when there was a hot debate on legalising gay relationships in Canada, where a large number of Sikhs are settled.

Giani Gurcharan Singh said Sikhs should stick to the edict and set an example by keeping themselves away from such all "unnatural relationships".

"The marriage verses enshrined in the Guru Granth Sahib are meant to solemnise weddings only between persons of opposite sexes," he said.

[TheFancyBanana 747]

July 6, 2009

The Akal Takht, the highest temporal seat of Sikhism is of the firm view that Delhi High Court judgment on gay relationships could ruin the society as this was against the tenets of all religions.

Reacting to the judgement on Saturday, Takht Jathedar Gian Gurbachan Singh said the Sikh religion or for that matter any religion did not permit sexual relations between individuals of the same sex.

"This is a very serious matter and against religious codes and ethics, "he said while appealing to the Sikhs against maintaining relations with the same sex.

"Any Sikh, baptised, non-baptised or one who believes in the Guru Granth Sahib, need not be influenced by the court judgement and should always refrain from establishing gay relationships," he said.

An edict issued from Akal Takht nearly four years ago had not only prohibited Sikhs from being involved in gay relationships but had described such a relationship as 'anti religious'. This edict was issued when there was a hot debate on legalising gay relationships in Canada, where a large number of Sikhs are settled.

Giani Gurcharan Singh said Sikhs should stick to the edict and set an example by keeping themselves away from such all "unnatural relationships".

"The marriage verses enshrined in the Guru Granth Sahib are meant to solemnise weddings only between persons of opposite sexes," he said.

Same peole who back down from supporting Sikh movies and making the Sikh youth aware of what happened to them. Same people who don't support poor Sikhs or shaeed parivaar and back down when the Badals or the government say "naughty naughty". What do they know about dharam?

[Jonny101 4,066]

Same peole who back down from supporting Sikh movies and making the Sikh youth aware of what happened to them. Same people who don't support poor Sikhs or shaeed parivaar and back down when the Badals or the government say "naughty naughty". What do they know about dharam?

ਸੋ ਇਸ ਦਾ ਮਤਲਬ ਇਹ ਹੋਇਆ ਕਿ ਜੇ ਕੋਈ ਕਿਸੇ ਇਕ ਵਿਸ਼ੇ ਤੇ ਅਵਾਸ਼ ਨਹੀ ਉਠਾਉਂਦਾ, ਉਹ ਕਿਸੇ ਭੀ ਵਿਸ਼ੇ ਤੇ ਆਵਾਜ਼ ਉਠਾ ਹੀ ਨਹੀ ਸਕਦਾ? ਭਾਈ ਵਿਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਵਿਕਾਰ ਹੀ ਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪਾਵੇਂ ਉਸ ਨੂੰ ਹੁਣ ਜਿਨਾ ਮਰਜੀ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਸਹੀ ਦੁਹਰਾਉਣ ਦੀ ਕੋਸ਼ਿਸ਼ ਕਰੋ। ਸਮ ਲਿੰਗੀ ਵਿਕਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰਮੱਤ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਸਹੀ ਕਿਹਣਾ ਮਹਾ ਮਨਮੱਤ ਹੈ।

[Singh559 2,624]

I don't like this whole concept it doesn't sit right with me because Sikhi isn't about your own personal feelings for when y ou get married, you give your head to the Guru and then you get married according to Gurmat, not according to your sexual orientation.

With that said, stop this sarbat website nonsense and start advocating for equality for all people instead (ie non-Sikh homosexual rights) perhaps.

[luckysingh99 1,186]

why start mixing gays with Sikhism, since it has nothing to do with Sikhism or spirituality.

It doesn't matter if you are gay, khusra (hemporhodite) , straight or bisexual.

Sikhism has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation, caste or gender.

Gender equality doesn't mean exclude all gays and lesbians.

Remember, that when Guru Nanak started to talk about abolishing caste, we had the 'untouchables' the lower casts that were not even allowed in the same kitchen, room or temple as the higher Brahmins.

If we start excluding gays and lesbians, then we are just relabeling them as the new 'untouchables'

Now, I personally think that Guru Nanak had no problem accepting anyone to be part of his gurmat, this included other religions, chamars, churey, untouchables, cannibals....etc....because if they wanted to come and practice his gurmat and way of life through his teachings then they were more than welcome.

If we think for a minute, if some khusra came to him wanting to be a follower of his, then he wouldn't have hesitated just because the khusra may have had a man's willie and a woman's breasts !! :biggrin2:

Because that didn't matter at all - as ALL were welcome !!

HOWEVER, I don't think that Guru Amardas would have been too keen doing the anand karaj ceremony for 2 khusrey !!! :stupidme:

I just can't imagine that happening, because what really would have been the purpose for the 2 khusreys to have anand karaj ??

Can 2 gays or lesbians actually procreate and produce gursikhs for the future ??

We know they can't, so do they really need to be married ??

In the near future, I cannot imagine 2 gays walking around doing the lama, can you ???

Would it be for a license to indulge in sexual activities with each other or would it be for helping each other's jeevans on the path to waheguru ?

[singh1986 85]

I really do think Sarbat people and gay sikhs (there are loads... y'all will be surprised!) are pushing it with the anand karaj. There is no need for gay Sikhs to get married or to indulge in this khaami lifestyle... what you should be doing is focusing on controlling it... accepting your gay is one thing but you should not be acting on it... it is ultimately an unhealthy practice to engage in homosexual coitus... There are other methods out there which gay Sikhs should look to explore before engaging in such activities.

BUT I agree with earlier posts that it is wrong to believe that homosexuality is deviate and we should shun gay people as abnormal is going too far... We should accept Gay Sikhs but NOT those that act upon it sexually... There is this gay dude that does sooo much seva at my local Gurdwara everyday and its distressing to see sangat mock him and avoid him even though the amount of seva and obvious humility he has...

On side note I wish people would not pick and choose the edicts of the Akal Takhat and the direction of Jathedar Gurbachan Singh... Either accept the Hukams that come out the Akal Takhat or dont...