No Other Religion Leads To God

[Jonny101]

Johnny, Muhammad in Gyan Khand? Waheguru

haha muhammad is in narak hell fire

I wouldn't say he's in Nark. According to Sri Dasam Granth Jee, Prophet Muhammad was sent by Vaheguru to propagate Dharm. But he like many other messengers before him made mistakes and faltered from the Path of Vaheguru. He began to make people circumcised, promoted fasts, made people bow to a black stone in Kabah and other stuff which are not up to the standards of Gurmat. I don't know where he is now, but many Muslim Pirs, Fakirs, Auliyaas do have high spiritual avasthas which would probably take them as high as GianKhand, so that is where Prophet Mohammad most probably is. I know many of you would not agree with this statement. But the spiritual dimension of this subject is very different from our personal perspectives.

For Sikhs, we know the spiritual realms in Gian Khand are temporary. They are much below Sach Khand and Karam Khand. While one can find negative points in all the previous messengers, avtars but none in our Gurus. For example, Prophet Muhammad had a number of faults which we are aware of, Krishan proclaimed himself as God in Gita instead of Vaheguru, Buddha and Mahavir(of Jainism) were good men but they created atheistic Dharms(Buddhism, Jainism) instead of promoting worship of Vaheguru. Only Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee is such a Mahan Hasti Who has zero negative points. He gave us monotheism in it's purest form. He is the only one who has given us an open opportunity through Naam to have access to Sachkhand and that Naam can now only be obtained through the Panj Pyaras. We have done great Karmas from our previous lifetimes to be blessed with Sikhi.

[Jonny101]

Now I will try to explain in Punjabi. Say someone wants to ask a friend of his where the friend's father is at. He can ask in one of the following ways.

• tuhade Papa kithe gaye
• tuhade Daddy kithe gaye

Or he can ask in one of the following ways

• tera piyo kithe aa
• teri maa da khasam kithe aa

excellent way of putting it Mehtab Singh Jee. When dealing followers of other Dharms, we can say the same thing but in a different tone so that the other person gets our point but wont feel offended. We can say "tuhade Pita Jee" or we can say "teri Maa da Khassam" which mean the same thing but one way of saying is politely while the other way of saying it is very rude and insulting. We need to change our approach when dealing with people of other faiths.

[DalbirSingh]

I wouldn't say he's in Nark. According to Sri Dasam Granth Jee, Prophet Muhammad was send by Vaheguru to propagate Dharm. But he like many other messengers before him made mistakes and faltered from the Path of Vaheguru. He began to make people circumcised, promoted fasts, made people bow to a black stone in Kabah and other stuff which are not up to the standards of Gurmat. I don't know where he is now, but many Muslim Pirs, Fakirs, Auliyaas do have high spiritual avasthas which would probably take them as high as GianKhand, so that is where Prophet Mohammad most probably is. I know many of you would not agree with this statement. But the spiritual dimension of this subject is very different from our personal perspectives.

For Sikhs, we know the spiritual realms in Gian Khand are temporary. They are much below Sach Khand and Karam Khand. While one can find negative points in all the previous messengers, avtars but none in our Gurus. For example, Prophet Muhammad had a number of faults which we are aware of, Krishan proclaimed himself as God in Gita instead of Vaheguru, Buddha and Mahavir(of Jainism) were good men but they created atheistic Dharms(Buddhism, Jainism) instead of promoting worship of Vaheguru. Only Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee is such a Mahan Hasti Who has zero negative points. He gave us monotheism in it's purest form. He is the only one who has given us an open opportunity through Naam to have access to Sachkhand and that Naam can now only be obtained through the Panj Pyaras. We have done great Karmas from our previous lifetimes to be blessed with Sikhi.

Yes dasam granth says he was chosen and he put his own man made stuff but read the hadiths, he practically went nuts killing, raping and looting the guys in hell. Your next door neighbour has higher merit than he does. Krishan didn't go collecting war booty to rape, speaking about virgins while spending his time in a cave and suffering from epilepsy. We should strive very hard never to praise muhammad because it could equal the destruction of free society, of advancement of science he is an enslaver of mental freedoms.

Buddhism and Jainism aren't atheistic, they are called doctrines of nastika since they disbelieve in vedas and shastras being revelation. Buddhism is a heavily oriented deity faith, it's only been recently changed into some kinda of atheistic philosophy for western converts to give money to the dalai lama so he can set up his kingdom again. Jainism is just too extreme and difficult to follow with covering face and hard diet to maintain it's too difficult but it's still oriented around a god figure. There have been real aesthetic paths but if you want to say someone went to some kind of heaven, buddha surely did. Read the dhammapada, buddha praises brahma guru ji says parbrahm and brahm are one. The thing with alot of chinese is buddhists is since they are mixed up with other chinese philosophies such as taoism they have different perspectives on life. Besides that they realise the origin of buddhism from hinduism and in themselves are atheists.

Pirs and Fakirs were sufi muslims, every sect of islam is in agreement sufism is innovation it's not what muhammad taught, fakirs inact poverty primarily to act like hindu sadhus to influence hindus and convert them, same with pirs who live with abit of dignity, they are just molvis acting and pretending to be sadhus fooling people with magic tricks. Auliya is an islamic term referring to someone who takes their faith serious by definition bin laden was one and he ain't in heaven. When bin laden's house was raided in pakistan next to the army base they found loads of stacks of porn just like what seems to be recovered from most muslim terrorists who get foiled and raided. The language of gita is a dead language we aren't really sure what krishna claimed to be and the language he seems to be using directly, later hindu writers have said he is god some now say he was just god head only few claim that he was a prophet like symbol. Sheikhs are learned scholars, what's the point in respecting people who dedicate their life to learning a man made philosophy of world domination, gianis learning the truth of guru nanak deserve more respect.

[DalbirSingh]

http://forum.hizbuttahrir.org/showthread.php?t=4129

[Only five]

Sir I've lived among 3 religions in a manner you cannot in your lifetime , so spare me that suggestion please. But thanks anyways. Worth a shot anyday I must say.

You know that can very well be taken as a casteist comment, but never mind.

Bro, living among religionists is not the same as studying their religious scriptures. Imagine someone saying the same about Sikhi. First question we all would have is, were they Amritdhari? If so what jatha were they from? OOOO that jatha...........you didn't learn true Sikhi.....they don't do Waheguru simran/they don't do jhatka/they don't read Raagmala/they don't.......Here let me teach you about our religion. First rule, you can only come to me with questions and no one else

And I was not calling you a Urban Sikh. You are very far from this title. Urban Sikhs know who they are and they are very proud to carry this name. Lastly it has nothing to do with caste.

[Only five]

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio

Go under Puratan Katha/ Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji/ Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Katha/ Ang 60

The above is Katha by Sant baba Gurbachan Singh ji from Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. The katha starts by Sant ji telling us who can show us the path. Then 2:30 minutes in the katha Sant ji tells us that Gurbani is saying that no one can take the form as Satguru and then show the path to Vaheguru. This is very amazing katha. Very easy to understand even for the folks that don't understand Punjabi well. Sant ji really ends this discussion with Gurbani katha.

[N30S1NGH]

It's a long thread, some of it already discussed before in great detail like semantics of naam- tri fold (sargun with shabad, shabad surat, gyan of real self), semanatics behind satguru..Anyway, just wanted to present my 2 cents based on my research-

- Gurmat idealogy is fastest way to meet or merge with God thats partial journey for a sikh already covered/partial grace is already given in form of updesh of meeting vahiguroo as its given in gurbani in very simple manner (bhagti-9 different types of bhagti, shabad surat,shakti, gyan aspected all blended together as one non dual vahiguroo/ikongkar), Sure theology is quite deep to understand but updesh if its perceived or seen as different spiritual development stages its simple beautiful blissful expereince not a brain teasing intellectual theological case study. There is no dualism in sikhi- Vahiguroo jot behind sargun folding into nirgun, nirgun unfolding into sargun is One and same only- chaitan- supreme consciouness Ikongkar..!!

Now other partial journey towards becoming khalsa (bhramgyani) depends soley on us sikhs ourselves- our efforts but just like any other human- sikhs itself are also affected by panj chors/maya just like everyone else- time to suck it up - be honest about it and improve, and always be grounded about it instead coming across as self righteous, self loathing, self praising, self absorbed, self policing, self entitled, self privileged set of people.

Yes we have more efficent tools at our disposals as aids compare to others but we harp about it too much just harping about it on online forums (sorry thats what i have been seeing for 10 years) won't do any good to anyone and not certainly to ourselves (not letting gurbani go deep inside us) as we are just getting excited about it by just looking at the ocean of bliss not taking a dive in ocean of bliss.

Also this is kalyug so for people to be profoundly effected by great concept, concept is not enough, one needs to see great concepts in action and our senior gurmukhs/ancestors lived sikhi in innocence/devotion without any dvait (partiality), our buzarg have taken dive in ocean of bliss (gurbani) they don't need say anything that their actions/living example of concept itself attract millions for all walks of life from various different backgrounds/religion they have adapted one aspect of gurmat or another, as gurmat is natural process of spiritual development in one consciouness as gurmat talks to each and every human consciouness at different stages...Find any god beleiving human let them describe their feeling and let them read gurbani in sehaj one point or another they can relate themselves to gurbani in one composition or another as gurbani is fully connected to human consciouness and speaks directly to consciouness, talks about everything, relates to everyone.

Most people in west are tired of hearing fancy concepts of religions as they beleive in actions and when it comes to those concepts in action, living by example- they hardly see anything as sikhs in west themselves have divided sikhi into protestant, semetic abhramic version, tribalism, ghettoism, dvaitism, fascism, mobism, cultism by super imposing human tendancies on Gurmat.


ਕਬੀਰ ਸਾਚਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਕਿਆ ਕਰੈ ਜਉ ਸਿਖਾ ਮਹਿ ਚੂਕ ॥ कबीर साचा सतिगुरु किआ करै जउ सिखा महि चूक ॥ Kabīr sācẖā saṯgur ki▫ā karai ja▫o sikẖā mėh cẖūk.
Kabeer, what can the True Guru do, when His Sikhs are at fault?
ਅੰਧੇ ਏਕ ਨ ਲਾਗਈ ਜਿਉ ਬਾਂਸੁ ਬਜਾਈਐ ਫੂਕ ॥੧੫੮॥ अंधे एक न लागई जिउ बांसु बजाईऐ फूक ॥१५८॥ Anḏẖe ek na lāg▫ī ji▫o bāʼns bajā▫ī▫ai fūk. ||158|| The blind do not take in any of His Teachings; it is as useless as blowing into bamboo. ||158|

Also sakhi of sant harnam singh ji rampur khera wale.

JESUS CHRIST, MOHAMED SAHIB AND BHRIGU

RISHI JI APPEAR IN A VISION
One day Baba Ji was in deep meditation when Jesus Christ, Mohammed Sahib and Bhrigu Rishi Ji together, appeared before him. Their faces were radiant and had spiritually bright auras around their heads. After blessing Baba Ji with this vision Hazrat Mohammed Sahib Ji spoke, You are blessed and truly fortunate to whom Guru Nanak Dev Ji has shown the direct and easy method to attain enlightenment of Almighty God especially in this age of kalyug. The followers of the Great Guru Nanak Dev are not deriving the full benefit of his teachings.
After this, Bhrigu Rishi Ji spoke, In our times, we had to undergo hard penance and rigorous spiritual austerities in order to achieve enlightenment. The whole life of a man was spent in meditation and making offerings to God and even then, union with God was hard to achieve. The true nectar of naam which great Guru Nanak Dev Ji has brought for his Sikhs is remarkable; even we could not obtain this boon of naam. No doubt we amassed great spiritual and miraculous powers through rigorous meditation and penance, including powers to curse or bless anyone, but we were still deprived of the nectar of naam.
Jesus Christ just said simply, It is my inner desire that my followers one day adopt the path shown by great Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Saying these words, all three prophets disappeared.

- Now question regarding other religious/other spiritual school of thoughts if they offer same reality. According to my research and speaking to multiple mahapursh and listen to kathas of mahapursh- Yes they do, but its not fastest like gurmat, gurmat is eagle marg, where as others are slow marg have lots of karam kaand before estroric gyan layer of dharam comes where reality-bhagti/gyan of meeting allah/vahiguroo/god/prameshvar is mentioned.

Again despite of idealogy being slow marg towards vahiguroo the important thing matters is individual karam and kirpa of vahiguroo based on innocent love, devotion. It's not neccesary Vahiguroo/Allah/Ishvar will introduce/let devotee perceive beginning karam kaand rituals of respective dharam.... they can be introduced right away to gyan layer of each dharam and given kirpa that way..i meant we talking about not one life time but countless life times spiritual development here. Vahiguroo ji really don't need permission from us about his uniqueness, divine play.

Each dharam is divided into four layers/stages- shariat, tariqat, marfat and hakikat- different terms for different religion, gurbani talks about this and giving updesh to aurenzebi sharia panth mullah, how only consider your spiritual discpline as your shariat, tariqat, marfat, hakikat, gurbani updesh is for everyone so it applies to us all individually if one is being honest with themselves. Anyway, surely 80% of religious people from all religions- christianity, hinduism, islam etc are stuck in shariat layer. As far, sikhs these days stuck in aurenzeb type shariat ie- katarvaad goes, thats another sad chapter in panth, will let other realize on their own will, on their own accord, won't write much about it but rather worry about myself.

Now for being stuck in shariat to be blame totally on full religion in its totality now thats pure ignorance. Mystic layers - marfat/hakikat layers of all dharam exist-

Sufism talks seven divine phases ending being full merge with allah, murid-murshid concept, it talks about reality (atma gyan) meeting vahiguroo, christianity have mystic tradition non dual gnosis/gnostic where not talks about non dual reality but also tenth door, hinduism have school of thought vaishadvaita, advait close similiarities with gurmat, bhagvad gita talks about naam, karam yog, gyan jog etc, asthavakara gita talks about advait- gyan layer ekta of atma - paramatma, om ourd bindu talks about turiya avastha- non dual supreme consciousness, there are also orders of buddhism such which are non dual such as - Madhyamaka

And also just to break the news to you guys not all hindu orders beleive in sargun vishnu/vaikhunt- ever heard of term- maha vishnu? heard of sada shiv? sada shiva?.. read atma shaktam..very much exist.

-And also regarding khands in japji sahib- yes that could be perceived as sargun at begineer stage, but since we belive in kaival mukhti not other four sargun mukhti or protestant version of khands... khands in japji sahib are ultimately state of mind, almost 90% puratan scholars/literature(bhai vir singh, baba teja singh double ma, garab gajini teeka/sant gurbachan singh bhindranwale katha ultimately talks about khands being state of mind) have agreed to this as gurbani connects directly to our development of our human consciouness state/perceptions etc..Making khands or puriya into seperate reality was thing of past for sargun upasakhs ( pandit singh dhaka nirmala among others who were sargun upasakh came up with subtle/physical realm of sachkhand being ultimate reality), also sikhi does not beleive in protestant version of khands of wrathful god whipping day lights out of people where there is assembly/disassembly line towards locked sachkhand and khands. Both ultimate sargun interpertation of khands and protestant influence version of khands approach of sachkhand falls potentially into Polytheistic notions/disconnected reality from human spiritual development in the human consciousness and also in clash course with jaap sahib, akaal ustat sidhant.

Gurmat is sargun into nirgun marg not just sargun marg only.

- Inderjit Singh Ji bought up good point- kaival mukhti is given by satguru nanak dev ji we all agree with that. Just to may be add to that. Satguru nanak dev ji in nirgun/sargun form can take any form -both animate, in-animate-self,shabad form gyan form and give mukhti to all depending on individual devotion, perception love, efforts be it zikr, naam seva- they don't need permission from us which form they should transcendent, give mukhti, they can take any form and they have in the past in all the yugas based on gurbani helped devotees, given them mukhti based on individual perception/bhavna (he does not need to go through outer sikh traditions we cannot confine nirgun satguru nanak into any thing that will go against jaap sahib, sri akaal ustat sidhant), its based on individual devotion towards vahiguroo kirpa in various forms but at the end- sargun and nirgun (knowledge of self- atma-paratma) ekta- it was nanak nirgun par bhram all along ..before hindus try to confine him, muslims try to confine him now sikhs are trying to confine him in semetic, abhramic, ism religious form but sri guru gobind singh ji reinforces nanak nirgun saroop again in jaap sahib, sri akaal ustat, gyan parbodh without any religious boundaries so sikhs can be dharmi and uphold dharmi but at the same time their inner avastha is free from wrapping their head around beginner layer there is no wrapping your head around it, no confining just spontaneous flow. Such is the beauty of Gurmat- hinting one of many examples -towards kathau sochet kabit of sri akaal ustat.

- Dalbir Singh post regarding nanaksar promotion of sufism is some what true but promotion of sufism in guru ghar/sikh sampardava's was long before nanaksar itself -ever heard of 52 poets of maharaj darbar? Sufi style- bhai nand lal goya poetry? classic seva panthis bhai adhaan shah puratan literature of sufi transalations? Mystic sufi and hindu mystic literature- hunaman natak, gobind gita, bhagvad puran transliterations by 52 kavi poets many others were already accepted by sri guru gobind singh, gita translated by sri guru gobind singh ji such as gobind gita same gita you are referring to as dead.

- What was need for gurmat? Same need dying flower have- pure rain of love, devotion, amrit, naam, seva, gyan so flower can be blossom and dance in ecstasy in days, than weeks, months, seasons. Just because there is rain in the past, it does not mean it shouldnt rain now. Nature make sure it keep raining make sure there is no drought. Gurmat never started nor will stop, gurmat appears and disappear just like sargun folding into nirgun, nirgun unfolding into sargun, as long akaal purkh wants gurmat will be never ending rain of bliss- aad sach, jugad sach, hai bhi sach, nanak hosi bhi sach.

- Also another i have notice among sikhs abroad they always ask this question what was need for sikhi if other paths gave mukhti? i thought people got into sikhi for love of guru rather than pyscho anaylizing on what was need? anyways its fine to clear the doubts...but seriously we are not talking about binded contract with conditionings here, this is unconditional divine love towards guru.

What can we do to make to gurmat appeal to all? Stop super imposing your pre conceived notions on it, gurmat is never ending supreme consciousness flow of sargun-nirgun and vice versa, don't try to confine the flow by making abhramic ism- like other dharams and everything will fall into place automatically...all dharams have standard process/stages-shariat, tariqat, marfat and hakikat but our real sikh shariat is unique different than them...our shariat works directly with individual concsiouness/state of mind- there are plenty start off sadhnas/displines/praticality/rehats and tat essence of gurmat- everything is blended together in one whether one sees it or not thats a different story.

I will end with maharaj gurbani on best religion:

sarab Dharam meh saraysat Dharam.
har ko naam jap nirmal karam.
sagal kir-aa meh ootam kiri-aa.
saaDhsang durmat mal hiri-aa.
sagal udam meh udam bhalaa.
har kaa naam japahu jee-a sadaa.
sagal baanee meh amrit baanee.
har ko jas sun rasan bakhaanee.
sagal thaan tay oh ootam thaan.
naanak jih ghat vasai har naam. 83

Which is best religion?
Naam simran and righteous conduct of life.
Which is best action in life?
To clean inner self with help of holy company of saints and to always be engaged in naam jaap
Which is best listen-able item?
Lords praise is best ambrosial (amrit) speech one should manage to listen repeat the same with devotion.
Which is best place?
The heart full of HIS blissful naam

[Mehtab Singh]

Bro, living among religionists is not the same as studying their religious scriptures. Imagine someone saying the same about Sikhi. First question we all would have is, were they Amritdhari? If so what jatha were they from? OOOO that jatha...........you didn't learn true Sikhi.....they don't do Waheguru simran/they don't do jhatka/they don't read Raagmala/they don't.......Here let me teach you about our religion. First rule, you can only come to me with questions and no one else

And I was not calling you a Urban Sikh. You are very far from this title. Urban Sikhs know who they are and they are very proud to carry this name. Lastly it has nothing to do with caste.

Ok veer, I see your point.

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio

Go under Puratan Katha/ Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji/ Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Katha/ Ang 60

The above is Katha by Sant baba Gurbachan Singh ji from Dhan Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. The katha starts by Sant ji telling us who can show us the path. Then 2:30 minutes in the katha Sant ji tells us that Gurbani is saying that no one can take the form as Satguru and then show the path to Vaheguru. This is very amazing katha. Very easy to understand even for the folks that don't understand Punjabi well. Sant ji really ends this discussion with Gurbani katha.

I will listen to this katha veer. Just want to point out that I will choose to stop breathing before I equate any other faith with Sikhi. Hope that clears any misunderstanding.

[Mehtab Singh]

Only Sri Guru Nanak Dev Jee is such a Mahan Hasti Who has zero negative points. He gave us monotheism in it's purest form. He is the only one who has given us an open opportunity through Naam to have access to Sachkhand and that Naam can now only be obtained through the Panj Pyaras.

This is the summary of this 6 page thread.

[VanHelsingh]

This is the summary of this 6 page thread.

Funny thing is I never asked which was the "best", as was attributed to me earlier; I asked whether Waheguru listens to the wishes or even takes care of people of other religions (or even non-believers)? :biggrin2:

The above post from Jonny Ji is all that was needed.