Do Only Khalsa Amritdhari Gursikhs Leave Reincarnation?

[N30S1NGH]

So you are saying nirankaar means without akaar, which means without form. You also describe Nirgun to mean non transcendental. Does that mean you also say Nirgun means without akaar?

According to sant gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale gurbani katha on sargun nirgun nirankar sun samadhi aap apan kiya nanaka ape fer jaap ashtpadi. Sant ji explains nirankar which is vahiguroo is rehat from akaars (forms) and ateet (loose translation de-attached) from three gunas (trai gun-rajo, tamo sato-sargun) so according to my understanding from katha - nirgun and nirankar are synonymous to each other as they both have some of similar connotations.

[jasdeepsingh2k125]

but with my tuchi budi i was thinking nirgun is pure jot and sargun is all the things where akal purakh work through his jot? :blush2: :blush2: :ph34r:

[Only five]

According to sant gurbachan singh khalsa bhindranwale gurbani katha on sargun nirgun nirankar sun samadhi aap apan kiya nanaka ape fer jaap ashtpadi. Sant ji explains nirankar which is vahiguroo is rehat from akaars (forms) and ateet (loose translation de-attached) from three gunas (trai gun-rajo, tamo sato-sargun) so according to my understanding from katha - nirgun and nirankar are synonymous to each other as they both have some of similar connotations.

To be ateet from the three gunas does that automatically translate into formless? To be rehat from akaars does that mean to be formless? I don't think so because he is Ik Onkar. When Bhagat Dhanna Jatt Ji was given Maharaj darshan, he saw Ik Onkar. If Ik Onkar was truly formless, then how could anyone realize,unite, see, feel, or hear him?

Formless is a subjective term used by humans to say I can't see him due to my inability. Just because you can't see him does not mean he is formless. Formless is derived from how far humans can see. But Ik Onkar is not subjective in any shape or form. Ik Onkar stands on its own and is objective. Ik Onkar is thee form.

[garch]

A lot learned and good questions to come from the debate between the neo/5 pajis..

Both want to sum up their views on the op? Would be interested on their take in layman terms.

[N30S1NGH]

To be ateet from the three gunas does that automatically translate into formless? To be rehat from akaars does that mean to be formless? I don't think so because he is Ik Onkar.

Thats true, i would say he is de-attached/nirlaip yet in everything. He is with form but at the same time formless as per my understanding of deep sikh theology and as per gurbani cautionary updesh. Vahiguroo exist in sargun (three gunas but not confined in sargun), nirgun (non transcendental- not confined in nirgun) nirankar (formless not confined in formless) sun samadhi (non transcedental meditation not confined in sun samadhi) jaap (jaap/ajapa jap but not confined in ajapa jap).

I consider Ikongkar as never ending flow supreme consciousness which is de-attached/nirlaip from all aspects but exist in all aspects equally.

When Bhagat Dhanna Jatt Ji was given Maharaj darshan, he saw Ik Onkar. If Ik Onkar was truly formless, then how could anyone realize,unite, see, feel, or hear him?

Formless is a subjective term used by humans to say I can't see him due to my inability. Just because you can't see him does not mean he is formless. Formless is derived from how far humans can see. But Ik Onkar is not subjective in any shape or form. Ik Onkar stands on its own and is objective. Ik Onkar is thee form.

Usually, individual human consciouness confine (due to influence of maya/past life tendacies and our dualistic nature) flow of sargun-nirgn-nirankar (Ikongkar) in their consciouness to sargun only -attached themslves to reference points/sargun divine expereinces in the flow which turns into hindrance/desires/dualism rather than being nirlaip (let go maya influence/past life tendacies)- being one with spontenous/never ending flow of Vahiguroo- one vision/perception ikongkar ~~Supreme consciouness awareness bliss ~~ ~ !!Turiya!!~~ which exist in all its aspects (sargun/nirgun/nirankar/sun samadhi/ajapa jap-shabad surat) yet be attet/rehat-deattached/free from it as (not being confined to anything -atet/rehat as supreme consciouness ,exist in everything equally) is very nature of Ikongkar.

[Only five]

Thats true, i would say he is de-attached/nirlaip yet in everything. He is with form but at the same time formless as per my understanding of deep sikh theology and as per gurbani cautionary updesh. Vahiguroo exist in sargun (three gunas but not confined in sargun), nirgun (non transcendental- not confined in nirgun) nirankar (formless not confined in formless) sun samadhi (non transcedental meditation not confined in sun samadhi) jaap (jaap/ajapa jap but not confined in ajapa jap).

I consider Ikongkar as never ending flow supreme consciousness which is de-attached/nirlaip from all aspects but exist in all aspects equally.

Usually, individual human consciouness confine (due to influence of maya/past life tendacies and our dualistic nature) flow of sargun-nirgn-nirankar (Ikongkar) in their consciouness to sargun only -attached themslves to reference points/sargun divine expereinces in the flow which turns into hindrance/desires/dualism rather than being nirlaip (let go maya influence/past life tendacies)- being one with spontenous/never ending flow of Vahiguroo- one vision/perception ikongkar ~~Supreme consciouness awareness bliss ~~ ~ !!Turiya!!~~ which exist in all its aspects (sargun/nirgun/nirankar/sun samadhi/ajapa jap-shabad surat) yet be attet/rehat-deattached/free from it as (not being confined to anything -atet/rehat as supreme consciouness ,exist in everything equally) is very nature of Ikongkar.

When you say Waheguru is formless are you not confining him based on your knowledge? Take for example creation. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji says n his katha of Gurbani this creation is like a humans dreams. The drama take place, but in the beginning, in the middle, in the end it was an illusion. When you say Sargun is permanent, then how can you turn around and say Sargun is subject to the 3 gunas or this universe is Sargun Saroop? Sargun cannot be absorbed into Nirgun when Nirgun is another attribute of Akal Purakh. The universe along with 3 gunas are not permanent as Waheguru is. When I read the Salok from Sukhmani Sahib that you posted in your last post the better translation of Nirankar into english is permanent. As Nirankar is still an attribute of Akal Purakh.

kaal is maha kaal and maha kaal is akaal purkh himself

Thats exactly what i said, kaal is transcedental sargun(with gunas/maya) aspect of maha kaal/nirgun roop, maha kaal is non transcedental aspect/roop of nirgun.

In this topic you also state that Kaal is Sargun. Once again you are defining non-permanent things into permanent existence. Sargun is permanent. Kaal is subject to creation and vice versa .

[scali]

GOD is all in all Alpha and the Omega. Seen and Unseen. All exist in him Sargun and Nirgun. Purpose of life is to knowingly create an experience of oneness in an illusion of separation. For most of us illusion of has become the experience. Akal Purakh is timeless, all knowing and experience exist in the NOW. Time and space are an illusion to create a linear time illusion for an event to happen in sequence. Baba Nand Singh created an experience for himself in Sargun saroop of GOD as Guru Nanak. You are free to create any experience you like. All souls have the same creative power.

[N30S1NGH]

When you say Waheguru is formless are you not confining him based on your knowledge?

I don't have any knowledge -look into gurbani updesh- jaap sahib, sri akaal ustat japji sahib. It cannot be confined either in form or without form. For understanding purposes, We could say formlessness is one aspect of vahiguro surely from dualistic perception but we must keep sidhant of jaap sahib, akaal ustat in mind. I will leave up to individuals based on their understanding.

Take for example creation. Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh ji says n his katha of Gurbani this creation is like a humans dreams. The drama take place, but in the beginning, in the middle, in the end it was an illusion.

Great analogy, similiar analogy is used describing supreme consciouness awareness during jagrath, supoan, sukhopat avastha

When you say Sargun is permanent, then how can you turn around and say Sargun is subject to the 3 gunas or this universe is Sargun Saroop? Sargun cannot be absorbed into Nirgun when Nirgun is another attribute of Akal Purakh. The universe along with 3 gunas are not permanent as Waheguru is. When I read the Salok from Sukhmani Sahib that you posted in your last post the better translation of Nirankar into english is permanent. As Nirankar is still an attribute of Akal Purakh.

Speaking strictly from sidhant perspective when i mentioned sargun being permanent, it meant to looked at from non dual perspective (Ik0ngkar)/source of sargun itself- sargun when its non transcendent its leen in nirgun state of nirgun which is Akaal purkh.

In this topic you also state that Kaal is Sargun. Once again you are defining non-permanent things into permanent existence. Sargun is permanent. Kaal is subject to creation and vice versa

Kaal is destruction and that itself part of sargun. I think correct english word be kaal is one aspect/part of sargun rather kaal is sargun but if you contexualize what i said earlier which i re-quote note key word- is aspect- Thats exactly what i said, kaal is transcendental sargun(with gunas/maya) aspect of maha kaal/nirgun roop, maha kaal is non transcedental aspect/roop of nirgun.

[Only five]

Is Kaam, Krodh, Moh, Ankar, and lobh Sargun or aspect of Sargun?

[savinderpalsingh]

Taking amrit is mandatory for sachkhand so did everyone too it i guess

it seems correct after looking at the abundance in bhramgiani's in sikhi after creation of khande batte de pahul

http://www.gurbaniupdesh.org/multimedia/04-Katha/13-Giani%20Thakur%20Singh%20Ji%20%28Patiala%20Wale%29/Katha%20Itehaas/Ithaas%20Paatshahi%20Dasvin/Katha%20Ithaas%20Patshahi%20Dasveen-02.mp3