Jhatka - The Sikh Method Of Slaughter Vs Halal/kosher...

[singhbj singh]

A short film by Navdeep Singh Kandola

[Cisco_Singh]

That's a good video... I know plenty of "Sikhs" who have no ethics or principles and happily consume halal meat and beef... Not sure how long this thread will stay open though.. With Sikhsangats "pro vegi anti meat" viewpoint.

[luckysingh99]

I'm sure we can discuss the benefits of jhatka compared to halal and vice versa if any.

However, if you go onto anti and pro meat arguments, then it will get closed as another round the ;circle' meat debate.

I never speak pro or anti meat for that matter and I know some members get a little confused !

Why I don't speak anti-meat is because this means I am speaking lowly or against traditional nihang principles. I am in no light, a holier or better Sikh than some of the great Nihangs we have had, so why should I feel mightier or be defining them as doing wrongs ?

Secondly, the bigger issue is 'Halal'' or ritually sacrificed meat. This is the meat that Akaal takht specifically defines as bujjar kurehit. ie. an amritdhari Sikh can get excommunicated for eating halal and not for eating jhatka.

There are some very good reasons around jhatka compared to halal and most of these are scientific as well as moral.

I'm not too sure about the beef thing but I assume it stems from the non vaishnavites in Hinduism who were forbidden to eat beef only.

[kookarramko]

Sadhee Jeeb Naa Rajeea Kar Bhog Bilase||

why kill an animal for the satisfaction of our tongue. the only satisfaction for our tongue should be Naam.

[Big_Tera]

What alot of Sikhs dont realise is. When you buy halal foods you are doing 3 things wrong. 1) your eating hala meat which is the worst aspect of it. 2)your directly supporting animal cruelty by the way the animal is slaughtered.3) yor supporting another religions ideology hence your given your money to encourage the halal busness to flourish and encouraging the spread of halal outlets. I live in an area whwre theres quite a big sikh/hindu community and many of the 12_30 ages in particular go to these halal joints without knowing what they are contributing to.

When I buy meats foods from outside which I rarely do. I just buy kfc which tastes better. I avoid halal at all times as it is against my beliefs.

[savinderpalsingh]

A short film by Navdeep Singh Kandola

Sadhee Jeeb Naa Rajeea Kar Bhog Bilase||

why kill an animal for the satisfaction of our tongue. the only satisfaction for our tongue should be Naam.

WaheguruJiKaKhalsa!!WaheguruJiKiFateh!!

we have already discussed why jhatka is done and

discussion on veg or meat is allowed in this topic

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72973-animal-sacrifices/

please refrain from making such topics more

However if admin feels like , we can disscuss this only for

jatka vs hallal

this can easily go offtopic .

REMEMBER - NO MEAT vs VEG DISCUSSION HERE ..

it is already been done

http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/72973-animal-sacrifices/

[GKaur1315]

What alot of Sikhs dont realise is. When you buy halal foods you are doing 3 things wrong. 1) your eating hala meat which is the worst aspect of it. 2)your directly supporting animal cruelty by the way the animal is slaughtered.3) yor supporting another religions ideology hence your given your money to encourage the halal busness to flourish and encouraging the spread of halal outlets. I live in an area whwre theres quite a big sikh/hindu community and many of the 12_30 ages in particular go to these halal joints without knowing what they are contributing to.

When I buy meats foods from outside which I rarely do. I just buy kfc which tastes better. I avoid halal at all times as it is against my beliefs.

I dont eat Halal meat for the same reasons as listed by Big_Tera.

Having said that, the halal industry has grown...its difficult finding non-halal places.

[humgareeb]

An interesting reply I came across in regards to this issue:

ਕੁਠਾ (kut(h)aa)

To my knowledge the Akal Takhat Rehat marayada neither mentions the word halal or jhatka. It uses the word Kuttha (ਕੁਠਾ ). Now if we look at how this word is used in the context of Gurbani in Guru Granth Sahib ji:

ਇਕੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਭਾਉ ਦੁਯਾ ਕੁਠਾ || (p. 321)
eik nira(n)jan rav rehiaa bhaao dhuyaa kut(h)aa||
The One Immaculate Lord is pervading everywhere; He destroys the love of duality.

ਤਿਸ ਦਾ ਕੁਠਾ ਹੋਵੈ ਸੇਖੁ || (p.956)
this dhaa kut(h)aa hovai saekh ||
If the Shaykh is killed with that

ਕਾਢਿ ਕੁਠਾਰੁ ਪਿਤ ਬਾਤ ਹੰਤਾ ਅਉਖਧੁ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਉ ||੧|| ਰਹਾਉ || (p.714)

kaadt kut(h)aar pith baath ha(n)thaa aoukhadhh har ko naao ||1|| rehaao ||

The Name of the Lord is the medicine; it is like an axe, which destroys the diseases caused by anger and egotism. ||1||Pause||

It is clearly evident from these references the the word Kuttha (ਕੁਠਾ ) is used to describe killing or destroying. It doesn’t make any reference to the method used. Therefore it should be taken that any form of meat is forbidden by sikhs as defined in the Sikh Rehat Marayda.

It is up to us if we want to continue twisting the meaning for our means.

Other Quotes in Gurbani

There are numerous references in the SGGS, in simple daily language for any common man that does not need a Harvard trained professor to explain, which indicate that the preferred diet is vegetarian food for a Sikh. Some of these are as follows :

1. Asankh Gal Vadh Hatianh Kamaih. Japji, p.4
Countless cut-throats and ruthless killers.

2. Baid Pareh Mukh Mithi Bani, Jian Kuhat Na Sanghe Parani. Fifth Guru, p.201
With his mouth, he recites the Vedas in sweet musical measures, and yet he does not hesitate to take the lives of others.

3. Khak Noor Kardang Aalam Dhuniah, Aasman Jimi Darkhat Aab Paydaas Khuday.
Bandhe Chasm Didang Fanay, Dhunia Murdar Khurdhani Gaafal Havai.
Gaibaan Hehvaan Haram Kustani Moorrdar Bhakoraih. Fifth Guru, p.723
The Lord infused His Light into the dust, and created the world, the universe. The sky, the earth, the trees, and the water - all are the Creation of the Lord. O human being, whatever you can see with your eyes, shall perish. The world eats dead carcasses, living by neglect and greed. Like a goblin, or a beast, they kill and eat the forbidden carcasses of meat. So control your urges, or else you will be seized by the Lord, and thrown into the tortures of hell. Your benefactors, presents, companions, courts, lands and homes - when Azraa-eel, the Messenger of Death seizes you, what good will these be to you then?

4. Jiih Badhuh Soh Dharam Kar Thappoh Adharam Kahoh Kath Bhai,
Appaas Ko Munivar Kar Thappoh Ka Koh Kohho Kasaiy. Kabir, p.1103
You kill living beings, and call it a righteous action. Tell me, brother, what would you call an unrighteous action? You call yourself the most excellent sage; then whom would you call a butcher?

5. Rojah Dharre Manaveh Alloh Suadhat Jiih Sangareh. Kabir, p. 483
You keep your fasts to please Allah, while you kill other beings for tasteful pleasure.

6. Joh Sabh Meih Ek Khuday Kahat Ho Toh Kioh Murghi Mareh. Kabir, p.1350
You say that the One Lord is in all, so why do you kill chickens?

7. Kabir Bhang Machli Surra Paan Joh Joh Parani Khain,
Thirth Varrat Naim Kiyah Teh Sabhe Rasathel Jainh. Kabir, p.1377
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and win - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all be wasted.

8. Jeh Ratt Lageh Kaperah Jama Hoi Palleet,
Joh Ratt Pivanh Mansa Tin Kioh Nirmal Chheet. First Guru, p.140
If one’s clothes are stained with blood, the garment becomes polluted. Those humans who drink the blood—how can their consciousness be pure?

9. Kabir Khuub Khana Khichhri Jah mein Amrit Lone,
Herra Rotti karney Ghala Katave Kaun. Kabir, p.1374
Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt,
Who would get his throat cut, to have meat with his bread?

10. Brahman Naave, JihaGhay. First Guru, P.662
The Brahmin kills for the purpose of sacrifice and then takes cleansing baths.

11. Bagga Bagge Kapare Thirth Manj Vassan.
Ghut Ghut Jihan Khavney Bagge Na Kahihan. First Guru, p. 729.
The herons in their white feathers dwell in the sacred shrines of pilgrimage. They tear apart and eat the living beings, and so they are not called white

13. Maha Kasab Shurri Satt Pahi. Karanhaar Prabhu Hirdey Vuutha. Fifth Guru, p.898.
The great butcher throws away his knife when the Creator Lord God abides in the heart

14. Hinsa Toh Mann Te Nahi Shutti Jih Dya Nahi Palli. Parmanand, p.1253.
Cruelty has not left your mind; you have not cherished kindness for other living beings.

15. Lahore Sehar, Jehar Kehar Savaa Pehar. First Guru, pp. 1412.
In city of Lahore, painfully animals are slaughtered early morning.

[DSGj]

HamGareeb Jee has hit the nail on the head.

Anyone who looks at Gurbani knows that the major conclusion is either neutral or more towards non-meat diet. There is no indication of Gurbani being pro-meat, no matter how much some want to twist it.

Also, in the video, it is a shame that Gurdwara committee member/head is promoting/justifying eating of meat.

Let us all remember that even if (jhatka) meat is allowed, then it is not allowed for everyone.

Like Neo Jee always says, Prem Sumarag outlines different types of lifestyles/roles of 'different kinds' of Sikhs.

The video in this thread is very manipulative, just like missionaries are, when they say that any Sikh can eat meat as long it's not halal.

They say we are in a martial race so that meat is allowed. What a joke, where are these non-nihang meat eaters when the Panth needs them to utilise their martial race power.

It is all just a formality. In reality, most 'Sikhs' who eat meat are doing it for the taste of the tongue.

And we all know, when Gurdwara committees and meat come in the same sentence, so does the words 'alcohol, drugs, parties and banquet halls (Gurdwara 'recreation room').

[N30S1NGH]

I agree with dasamsarblohgranth veer ji. Current sri akaal takth sahib maryada need to be revamped regarding meat..It's need to reformed from making jhatka meat available to all to only nihangs as there is martial/ deep philosophical/symbolism behind nihang doing jhatka rather than some uncle tom harry doing jhatka and eating jhatka.