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Khalsa Raj Vs Khalistan- Good Article

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Avtar95 veerji, I live in states.

It's not the matter of that they don't know us. Who in California doesn't know about Sikhs. All lawmakers are aware of who Sikhs are. As pointed above uk knew the loyalty of Sikhs and yet they offered full service to indira Gandhi. Why? It is because they see different country with whom they can have trade, financial relationship. That is the power of having a different country.

It is total naive to think that lawmakers are working for honest way or represent a lone outlier person. They may show that biut not in reality. Politics, whether local or international will only put their efforts for Sikhs ONLY if they get something in return. It is pure and simple but hard part is that our ppl are sleeping. Example: Sikhs of India are buying French car Renault duster in thousands even know that this country specifically targeted sikh turban in schools and in all public departments. Such is the pity condition of ours.

Anyway we can go back and forth on this issue and ends up with hitting wall.

So let's keep the word of sarbat khalsa of 1986 and I am sure that everybody knows the importance of sarbat khalsa. There will always be a minority who will disagree but we need not to put our energy in convincing them as that will be waste of our energy. However, we get to know the mindset of those who disagrees with something that panth agreed some 30 years ago. No offense to anyone.

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There seems to be some naïve questions/excuses against Khalistan. Either opposers don’t understand it or are against it for no valid reason.
I am sorry none of these questions are naive, and they are not excuses either. I am trying to start from basics and move on, if one does not have basic things right then we may have to go back drawing board instread of keep going.

we cannot flourish without a political State.
Highly inaccurate, fear war mongering statement.
It's already flourishing, everything is in mind, perception and outlook of life- how much one is attuned with inner and outer chardi-kalah, you are making it sound like without political state we cannot even breath or flourish - some sort of hindrance in spirituality. If anything equally can be argued- being confined to one country (khalistan-idealogy which is more valuable than sikh dharma to some) can be seen as counter productive as it blocks path way of parchar to all corners of world, fragnace of sikh dharma cannot be truly spread if its static.
Hence, sri guru nanak dev ji gave a bachan to those who engaged in evil activies- basdaie roaho and those who were gurmukhs were given - uzar jao.
Basdaie raho-evil activites does not spread, stays as stationary.

Our Gurdwaras, religious beliefs, women, children and future generations will never be safe all the time under a foreign rule. We have seen in 18th century how Sikhs were persecuted and our safety entirely depended on the mood swings of the Mughal officials. British rule was no different. Our Gurdwaras remained in their hands and we didn’t even have the right to wear a Kirpan and a black turban until beginning of 20th century. How do you think 9” kirpan became common? Because British allowed this length only. Our Anand Karaj was illegal until 1906 and in the surrounding areas of Darbar Sahib we had to endure idols, prostitutes, lecherous shops and songs until 1906.
Things were different before in england, canada, us than it was now, most democratic countries accomdate fairly well for most part.

In Hindu rule, we are no longer considered a separate nation and our survival is in jeopardy.
Agreed, i m not against idea of khalistan see my previous post. Even offered an idea to start fresh with a rename.
How can we ever justify that Akal Purakh Ki Fauj remain without its own weapons, artillery, defense system, standing army, navy, air force and training programs?
Off course, thats pretty sikh standard and standard for most countries
What does Khalsa Fauj have compared to other militaries? Absolutely nothing and that is because we have no political state. Any Sikh can practice his faith quietly in his home but the entire Panth cannot make a progress without having any independent rule.
Progress is relative term, you may define progress differently than I do.
I define progress when sikhs become khalsa when sikh start walking on the path of guru's not just conceptually but in expereince.
Sant jarnail singh khalsa bhindranwale himself said, when all sikh become khalsa - khalistan will automatically made.
Guru Sahib didn’t make us quietist. He made us active householders. We will always remain at the mercy of the rulers in our respective countries and when the law changes.
Agreed.
No one can guarantee that USA, Canada or other countries will always remain democratic, tolerant and liberal.
No one can guarentee anything. This could happen anywhere, including khalistan.
Nonetheless, these countries cannot represent Sikhs as Sikhs.
Most of them do, how you explain in liberal, ndp, conservative, canadian sikh pm canadiate (last year) where sikhs are represented fairly well.
Infact sikhs who were born in canada are attuned with wider canadian soceity serving their nation as police officers, miltary, mps etc that asking them to support khalistan won't resonate with them at all as they relate to it more being in canada than country they never relate to. They are as much sikhs than me and you.


We need a country that represents us worldwide as Sikhs so that no matter where a Sikh has problems due to his religion, there will be a political state supporting him and he can always go to his nearby Khalistan embassy.
I had a issue with passport in india, canadian embassy took care of my problems quite well, never felt like 2nd class citizen in embassy, fairly well.

Our Gurdwaras deteriorating in Muslim countries are due to our lack of political platform.
Agreed, we need solution to this problem, funding etc, team.
I can go on and on but benefits of political country are numerous. No one has to move back but I am sure many Sikhs will and I personally will never stay in any western country even if I have to survive on one meal a day in Khalistan.
Thats your personal cultural attachment opnion with khalistan, it has nothing to do with being good sikh or bad sikh.
First of all, it has not been proven that homosexuals are natural born or it is in their genes. Second, they cannot be considered Sikhs. Therefore, while their human rights will be guaranteed and they will not be discriminated in employment, they cannot have marriage rights nor can their Anand Karaj be done. They will have to live as individuals. They cannot hold any positions exclusively for Sikhs i.e. Granthi, katha vachak, Panj Pyare etc.
Not even once i try to allude homosexuals were sikhs, in any case, good to know your opnion about them.
In Muslim countries, non-Muslims have no right yet they are surviving.
Are we muslims? whats your point?

These questions are simply mundane because our focus should be on our own survival rather than opposing Khalistan due to uncertainty of other groups’ rights.
In many European countries, Sikhs have limited rights yet they are surviving. I am not saying we will be like them but focus on our survival first and then think about other groups and immigrants. If Muslims, Hindus and Christians don’t like it they can appeal in Sikh courts or go back to their own countries. Guru Rakha
I rather first focus on broader basic tenants aspect how guest/host/non sikh will be treated as that will determine overall khalistan constitution.
Does anyone have rough draft of sikh/khalistani constitution so i can read more about.?

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Sant Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale has said, "the day the Indian army attacks Sri Harmandir Sahib, the foundation of Khalistan will be laid". A Sikh who has shardha in Sant Jee should not doubt his Bachans. If the Bachans of Sant Jee are not enough for you then at least consider the destruction and damage that occurred at Akal Takht. From June 1st-8th, the floors of the Pakarma was washed with the blood of Sikhs. Then ten years after that, our youth were killed, sisters raped, entire families destroyed, and thousands of kids orphaned.

ਸਿੰਘੋ ਬੇਗੈਰਤ ਹੋਣ ਦੀ ਭੀ ਕੋਈ ਹੱਦ ਹੁੰਦੀ ਹੈਕੀ ਇਨਾ ਕੁਝ ਹੋਣ ਤੋਂ ਬਾਅਦ ਭੀ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਬਣਨ ਤੇ ਸ਼ੰਕਾ ਕਰਦੇ ਹੋ? ਜਿਸ ਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਲਈ ਹਜ਼ਾਰਾਂ ਸ਼ਹੀਦਾਂ ਨੇ ਕੁਰਬਾਨੀਆਂ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਨੀਂ ਰਖੀ? ਖੈਰ, ਭਾਵੇਂ ਤੁਸੀਂ ਚਾਹੋ ਜਾਂ ਨਾ ਚਾਹੋ, ਸੰਤ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਬਚਨ ਤਾ ਸੱਚ ਹੋਕੇ ਹੀ ਰਹਿਣ ਗੇਖਾਲਿਸਤਾਨ ਜ਼ਿੰਦਾਬਾਦ!

Same bhramgyani sant jarnail singh khalsa bhindranwale said when all sikhs become khalsa (bhramgyani) khalistan will be made. One can reconcile both statement equally and interpret the above introvert foundation of naam-khalistan must and shall be planted

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What frustrates me is why do western Sikhs give democracy and a secular society such high regard? The political system instigated by Guru Har Gobind was not democratic and nor was it secular. Surely if there was to be a Khalistan it would be based on the same political system bestowed to us by Guru Ji.

Because it(equal rights for all) resonates with wider universal gurbani egalitarian message.

Political system by Guru Har gobind sahib also naturally based on wider universal gurbani egalitarian message.

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Another question, it may be basic but quite important,

is kumb mela-symbolic gathering (gathering of all indic saints, sikh sadhus, hindu sadhus, buddhist sadhus etc) will be allowed in new khalistan? and also how much focus there would be for shared punjab cultural hertiage whether its preserving punjabi songs (clean songs), ghazals, qwalis etc?

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Britain is generating too many tree hugging hippi Sikhs like you. If Guru Gobind Singh was around today your British Gov would acuse him of child abuse for sending his sons to battle. I have no pride in the British democratic system. You think you have rights to carry a Kirpan yet the moment you unsheathed it you would be behind bars. Is it any wonder why Sardars have been reduced to mere clowns?

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Britain is generating too many tree hugging hippi Sikhs like you. If Guru Gobind Singh was around today your British Gov would acuse him of child abuse for sending his sons to battle. I have no pride in the British democratic system. You think you have rights to carry a Kirpan yet the moment you unsheathed it you would be behind bars. Is it any wonder why Sardars have been reduced to clowns?

Why live in UK then? If i were you, i would have basic integrity, leave britian and stop living in entitlement, stop double dipping in british generous system. Do you realize, most sikh freedom fighters begged their way in canada, uk, usa around late 1980's time? Righty so for them and families. I don't think some of humble sikhs would agree with your statement at all as they were given immense help when they needed most and they are most grateful for it, they are actually quite proud to be canadian, us uk citizens. I personally know shahid singh- son, he got his citizenship, he was estatic and now have very national sense of canadian nationalism pride in him. He would totally disagree with your appoarch- jarri thali ch roti kahdi, usi chh ched.!!

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Same bhramgyani sant jarnail singh khalsa bhindranwale said when all sikhs become khalsa (bhramgyani) khalistan will be made. One can reconcile both statement equally and interpret the above introvert foundation of naam-khalistan must and shall be planted

Veere, Sant jee's Bachans are not Gurbani that you are trying to find some alternative antreev meanings to it. By Khalsa he did not mean Brahmgiani specifically. By Khalsa he meant Sikhs becoming observant of Sikhi because when Sikhs all become Amritdhari then Sikhs will become such a powerful force that no one will be able to stop Khalistan/Khalsa Raaj from becoming a reality.

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Veere, Sant jee's Bachans are not Gurbani that you are trying to find some alternative antreev meanings to it. By Khalsa he did not mean Brahmgiani specifically. By Khalsa he meant Sikhs becoming observant of Sikhi because when Sikhs all become Amritdhari then Sikhs will become such a powerful force that no one will be able to stop Khalistan/Khalsa Raaj from becoming a reality.

I m not trying to find alternative meaning, thats how i relate to it.

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Why live in UK then? If i were you, i would have basic integrity, leave britian and stop living in entitlement, stop double dipping in british generous system. Do you realize, most sikh freedom fighters begged their way in canada, uk, usa around late 1980's time? Righty so for them and families. I don't think some of humble sikhs would agree with your statement at all as they were given immense help when they needed most and they are most grateful for it, they are actually quite proud to be canadian, us uk citizens. I personally know shahid singh- son, he got his citizenship, he was estatic and now have very national sense of canadian nationalism pride in him. He would totally disagree with your appoarch- jarri thali ch roti kahdi, usi chh ched.!!

Can you suggest a better place to live? This backs the argument for a Khalistan. Where a Sikh can live like a true Sikh. Until then a Sikh will have to live how the British will accept and tolerate.

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Can you suggest a better place to live? This backs the argument for a Khalistan. Where a Sikh can live like a true Sikh. Until then a Sikh will have to live how the British will accept and tolerate.

Sikh can already live like a true Sikh in england, you are copping out blaming country for your own spiritual hindrances which is created by you no else. Ever heard of sant mani singh ji uk? He was proud british(had british flag on his body) and bhramgyani khalsa mahapursh born and bred in UK...you are making it sound like true sikh can never be british, canadian, american( upholding current country constitution) is mutually exclusive?

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Sikh can already live like a true Sikh in england, you are copping out blaming country for your own spiritual hindrances which is created by you no else. Ever heard of sant mani singh ji uk? He was proud british(had british flag on his body) and bhramgyani khalsa mahapursh born and bred in UK...you are making it sound like true sikh can never be british, canadian, american( upholding current country constitution) is mutually exclusive?

The amount of injustices Britain/UK has done perhaps no other country has. Even the current constitution does not filter out the corruption of the governments and politicians and their roles in corruption, 1984 being one example. True Sikh never aligns themselves with a country like that. Maybe during their life due to career/social reasons, but never have flag draped on funeral body.

Bhai Mani Singh UK is the only example you have.

Here is an example of a real Dhan Guru Piarey GurSikh:

prof-uday-singh-2-375x281.jpg

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Will the British will never tolerate you using your Kirpan no matter how just the cause. One day the British will acuse Sikh parents of Amritdhari children of child abuse for giving them weapons. Can you board a plane with your armour and not have your dastar humiliated? Can you truly be armoured to a practical level like a Khalsa should be? Carrying a '9 inch dagger' or 'ceremonial sword' has just become a ritual. For how long will Sikhs face discrimination serving in the armed forces or flying commercial aircraft? How many cases will we have to win? The western world continues to erode the Sikh identity. In 100 years I doubt there will be any of the few that remain today. Sikhis desperately needs their own their independent political system. We have been goverened by democracies who frankly couldn't care less about religion, yet alone Sikhi.

Raj bina neh dharam chale hain.

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Quote

we cannot flourish without a political State.

Quote

"Highly inaccurate, fear war mongering statement."
N30 ji
That is what jews thought too, but you know what happened to them. However, now you cannot even hurt a single jew because of Israel.
I cannot understand how Sikhs could be against their own country. In India, some Sikhs might be against Khalistan because they will be killed if they say something about their own country.
I am amazed that we have to defend our country to Sikhs, that is really a sorry state of affairs.

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The amount of injustices Britain/UK has done perhaps no other country has. Even the current constitution does not filter out the corruption of the governments and politicians and their roles in corruption, 1984 being one example. True Sikh never aligns themselves with a country like that. Maybe during their life due to career/social reasons, but never have flag draped on funeral body.

Bhai Mani Singh UK is the only example you have.

Here is an example of a real Dhan Guru Piarey GurSikh:

prof-uday-singh-2-375x281.jpg

Not sure how i feel about someone living in current country as canadian citizen- enjoying full generous system of that country for 40 some years ending up having different country flag (which is just concept for now) on his body? he could have both that would have been understandable.., on top of that- supporting air india bomber- , inderjit singh rehat who lied 21 times (admitted to prejury which gursikh lies, do you guys realize he sworn on gutka sahib and still lied 21 times?) who has admitted to make a bomb (no one gives a bomb to someone knowning full purpose), which killed 330 canadians, including 92 sikhs..!!

Unbelievable. Hopefully bhai balpreet singh WSO have a nice pr statement to explain this logic to media if quizzed.

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